Why Is This Game Going Away From What Made It Work?

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

Well, there's already three pages of this sh*t, I suspect that it's filled up quite nicely with people who purport to hate GTAO and yet still find themselves playing it every single day.

 

I don't hate GTA Online, I just don't like certain negative aspects of it. I'm not gonna stop playing it (unless they push the boundaries too far) and certainly I'm not gonna stop demanding a more balanced, fair, consistent and better game overall.

[Mas u Sees]

 

No, it wasn't. Originally, Freemode was supposed to gateway you into other job activities, which it still does just like it did on launch. However, they open and expanded it to include an interesting way to allow you to open up to what essentially is 4v24 (or whatever the hell freemode tops out at).

 

So, really, since every sentence you wrote is stupid, what is it you wanted to hear? Oh, I know. A chorus of jackholes shouting "cockstar!" and crying about sharkcards?

 

Well, there's already three pages of this sh*t, I suspect that it's filled up quite nicely with people who purport to hate GTAO and yet still find themselves playing it every single day.

 

Well, even before that, during development, job lobbies didn't exist and Missions pretty much worked exactly as Free Mode Events do now, you could start them inside freemode, and complete them there.

 

However due to console limitations on the PS3/X360 systems, Rockstar ditched the concept and created this whole new "lobby" system.

Afterwards they tried to re-do their original concept with Free Mode Events, but obviously couldn't fully realize it due to the games base systems relying on the lobby system.

Actually the entire system that hosts jobs and missions was written by a single person, who is now Lead Online Tools Programmer at Rockstar North, I assume it was more rushed than anything else.

 

You can see in old Interviews with TheBenz and gaming magazines who saw GTA Online demos as they were invited to Rockstar North(about 6 Months prior to release it was I think), that at that time GTA Online, did not really have a lobby system with loading screens in between.

[Gray-Hand]

The move away from street crime to the operation of high end criminal enterprises and the corresponding increase in the power levels of our characters has come about in order to give a sense of 'progression'.

Players are more likely to keep playing if they feel they are being rewarded for it by becoming more powerful.

 

One of the reasons that the Lowriders update was poorly received was because it didn't really feel like our characters were progressing, in fact quite the opposite. Dealing with Lamar was a step down from what we had been doing in Heists. The Hydra was also released too early in the cycle.

 

I suspect that if Rockstar were to do it over again, they would release DLC in a different order to provide a steady progression from street level crime to organised crime. Maybe - Lowriders - Heists - Import/Export - Bikers - Gunrunning - CEO. Some of the weapons and vehicles released within those releases would have to be swapped about or modified to keep the level of power increasing at a steady rate.

[Commander S]

The move away from street crime to the operation of high end criminal enterprises and the corresponding increase in the power levels of our characters has come about in order to give a sense of 'progression'.

Players are more likely to keep playing if they feel they are being rewarded for it by becoming more powerful.

 

One of the reasons that the Lowriders update was poorly received was because it didn't really feel like our characters were progressing, in fact quite the opposite. Dealing with Lamar was a step down from what we had been doing in Heists. The Hydra was also released too early in the cycle.

 

...except that 'progression' argument only holds up if you assume R*'s doing this out of a sense of semi-realism in terms of our characters' place in the city and setting - which kinda gets obliterated when you consider that R* wants us to do everything simultaneously. By which, I mean we're not just progressing from street-level criminals to big-money kingpins - we're also running our own motorcycle clubs, AND working as mercenary arms dealers for the CIA IAA, AND now part of Ron's aerial smuggling thing (part of TPI?)

 

As for the reception of Lowriders, I was under the impression that the main issue was to do with the relative unpopularity of the missions - people didn't like the needless re-use of the Heists structure, combined with weak payouts, which is why R* didn't bother adding more missions with Lowriders: Custom Classics (IIRC, some were originally planned, but scrapped because ...people just don't bother playing the Lowrider missions). Don't think that people objected to the street-level theming itself - after all, people enjoyed the cars and the clothes just fine.

 

 

Besides, we've had at least one more street-level operation since: Bikers. It's another Freemode business, sure, but it's also a step down from big-money, high end stuff like the SecuroServ updates. I still reckon that more updates like Bikers, but for different themes, wouldn't be a bad way to go - rather than a constant attempt to out-do the previous big-money update, why not find different approaches to the Freemode business formula, and flesh out a bunch more niches?

[RollsReus1959]

I would have been cool with a human-trafficking business. Importing immigrants and turning them into hookers. That is very street level and at the same time very cool. We could have some sex industry business instead we evolved into CEO's and warlords.

 

At the rate R* is going....soon we will have nuclear, atom and MOAB bomb DLC where everyone will be hiding in their bunkers eating their snacks.

Edited August 28, 2017 by RollsReus1959

[z06z33]

 

Because in call of duty you get cars, tanks, planes, helicopters, boats, yachts, bunkers, apartments and bunkers.

None of which has an actual function besides "you need to buy this to be able to buy that."

 

They should have just made everybody a small time crook trying to make it and all the CEO's and rich peeps should have just been the NPC's you work for. It's stupid that everyone is some hyper rich CEO with 80 sports cars and a yacht and their own small military housed in a nuke bunker.

 

Gun fights and car chases don't even exist because everyone is allowed virtually unlimited explosives.... that's NOT the fundamental idea of GTA.

 

What happens when they milk out the DLC vehicles to the point that everyone already has everything possible? Then what do they do?

That sounds like a horrible game why on earth would I want to be some poor small time criminal.

[Gray-Hand]

@CommanderS:

I don't follow your first point. All of the free mode DLCs are a step up from street crime. The fact that the increase in power of our equipment and our influence and prestige in the underworld has been a bit up and down at times is probably due more to circumstances such as the hardware that was available and errors in strategy by Rockstar, rather than design.

 

And Bikers is decidedly NOT street level. It is high level drug/counterfeiting/false document manufacturing, importation and wholesaling businesses. We aren't selling drugs on street corners. We command organisations that employ dozens of people. Don't let the sh*tty clubhouses fool you - it's a big deal.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Gray-Hand

[Mas u Sees]

I don't follow your first point. All of the free mode DLCs are a step up from street crime. The fact that the increase in power of our equipment and our influence and prestige in the underworld has been a bit up and down at times is probably due more to circumstances such as the hardware that was available and errors in strategy by Rockstar, rather than design.

 

And Bikers is decidedly NOT street level. It is high level drug/counterfeiting/false document manufacturing, importation and wholesaling businesses. We aren't selling drugs on street corners. We command organisations that employ dozens of people. Don't let the sh*tty clubhouses fool you - it's a big deal.

Eh, I don't really think Rockstar thought that much of progression, they just have different themes for Updates, and do what works best or is currently wanted most at the moment.

 

What you are describing and what many here apparently would love to see is the Pre-development version of GTA Online, which was called "Cops and Crooks", there you would have started as a low-life criminal and probably would have worked your way up, (or as a policeman), but that concept was developed by Rocktar Leeds, and scrapped most probably because it didn't work out as well as it sounds on paper to us.

[Commander S]

I would have been cool with a human-trafficking business. Importing immigrants and turning them into hookers.

 

...ew, no. I'd like to think that GTA wouldn't ever go that far - we're playing as criminals, sure, but not total monsters...

 

Without going into full wishlist-thread territory, considering we've had Bikers that drew on a lot from The Lost and Damned, and now an update that borrows the name from Smuggler's Run, I don't see why R* couldn't do the same with The Ballad of Gay Tony (nightclubs, Vinewood celebs, etc.), and Midnight Club (illegal racing teams and custom cars). That's going back to what I said about expanding on the civilian-grade side of GTAO, rather than just escalating bigger and bigger criminal/mercenary/smuggling operations.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Commander S

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

I would have been cool with a human-trafficking business. Importing immigrants and turning them into hookers. That is very street level and at the same time very cool. We could have some sex industry business instead we evolved into CEO's and warlords.

 

At the rate R* is going....soon we will have nuclear, atom and MOAB bomb DLC where everyone will be hiding in their bunkers eating their snacks.

 

Aside from being a very bad idea, that kind of controversial content wouldn't make investors happy and could actually affect Shark Card sales. So that's a no.

 

Which is kind ironic because GTA used to push boundaries in controversial content.

[spincther]

 

I would have been cool with a human-trafficking business. Importing immigrants and turning them into hookers.

 

we're playing as criminals, sure, but not total monsters...

 

 

lol, well that's not true. You me and probably most players in this game have murdered more people than every serial killer in history combined. Sorry but our characters are monsters, we f*ck then murder hookers, we shoot shop keeps in the face right before they say "Please don't, I have family!". Yeah, not monsteristic at all lol

 

My psychotic character would have no qualms about human trafficking in the least, probably be most pissed about the paywall to get more valuable human stock.

 

Most of our characters are Trevor incarnate and probably go out into the woods to have satanic sex orgies while eating puppies when we aren't online with them. Too far? meh its just GTA humor relax..Trevor eats people afterall

Edited August 28, 2017 by -RP-

[Skeve613]

In no possible way when I started playing this in 2013 could I have had any way of foreseeing where this game would turn into by 2017....

 

Considering my first death in GTAO was to someone shooting my tires out and causing me to drive into a gas station pump, I would not have predicted flying rocket bikes and VTOL jets becoming the main threats almost four years later.

 

To the longtime players of GTA and R* games in general who unlike me (a first-timer) had expectations of GTA V and GT Online... I can only imagine the depth and intensity of your suffering right now...

[Commander S]

@CommanderS:

I don't follow your first point. All of the free mode DLCs are a step up from street crime. The fact that the increase in power of our equipment and our influence and prestige in the underworld has been a bit up and down at times is probably due more to circumstances such as the hardware that was available and errors in strategy by Rockstar, rather than design.

 

And Bikers is decidedly NOT street level. It is high level drug/counterfeiting/false document manufacturing, importation and wholesaling businesses. We aren't selling drugs on street corners. We command organisations that employ dozens of people. Don't let the sh*tty clubhouses fool you - it's a big deal.

 

It's still a 'civilian-grade' business - at least Biker businesses aren't multi-million-dollar enterprises with access to James Bond tech and getting contracted to do work either undercutting the US military, or selling stuff as a satellite operation for intelligence operatives. It's still more 'Walter White' than 'Lex Luthor'.

That's why I mention it as things we really ought to have more of - let players operate on the level of Tony Prince or Memphis Raines or something. There's more degrees than just 'stealing chump change and boosting cars' and then leaping to 'state-wide contraband operation and semi-disavowed PMC', with nothing in between.

 

 

 

 

I would have been cool with a human-trafficking business. Importing immigrants and turning them into hookers.

 

we're playing as criminals, sure, but not total monsters...

 

 

lol, well that's not true. You me and probably most players in this game have murdered more people than every serial killer in history combined. Sorry but our characters are monsters, we f*ck then murder hookers, we shoot shop keeps in the face right before they say "Please don't, I have family!". Yeah, not monsteristic at all lol

 

My psychotic character would have no qualms about human trafficking in the least, probably be most pissed about the paywall to get more valuable human stock.

 

Most of our characters are Trevor incarnate and probably go out into the woods to have satanic sex orgies while eating puppies when we aren't online with them. Too far? meh its just GTA humor relax..Trevor eats people afterall

 

Well, abducting people and forcing them into prostitution doesn't really qualify as 'just GTA humour', IMO - and if we're going to get pedantic about definitions, R* has made an effort to hand-wave things like that.

 

For example, most of the time, we're either fighting mercs, mobsters, gangs, or armed cops/security guards, etc. - or there's things like Heists or even the opening tutorial, where we're told that the robberies we're doing are 'victimless crimes' (to quote Lamar - not saying he's correct, granted!), because it's either insured, or we're stealing stuff from someone evading taxes, or whatever. In short, R* wants players to have fun, so says in as many words 'don't sweat the details...'

 

...which you can't do if your business is explicitly forcing people into ...basically sex slavery. Like I say, that's a line R* will likely never cross for GTAO characters, and I'm glad they haven't.

[BLACK DYNAM1TE]

So you never explained to us your version of what GTAONLINE would be OP, or you just wanted it to be exactly like it was out the box in 2013? Good thing you don't pay anything for this free content you have no interest in.

 

You probably get upset every year you upgrade your cellphone too.

[Mattoropael]

 

I would have been cool with a human-trafficking business. Importing immigrants and turning them into hookers. That is very street level and at the same time very cool. We could have some sex industry business instead we evolved into CEO's and warlords.

 

At the rate R* is going....soon we will have nuclear, atom and MOAB bomb DLC where everyone will be hiding in their bunkers eating their snacks.

 

Aside from being a very bad idea, that kind of controversial content wouldn't make investors happy and could actually affect Shark Card sales. So that's a no.

 

Which is kind ironic because GTA used to push boundaries in controversial content.

 

 

Remember when GTA V had the guts to include a very graphic and extra-pointless torture scene to make a statement, inevitable moral guardian backlash be damned? I almost didn't.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Mattoropael

[ShadowlessDevil]

So you never explained to us your version of what GTAONLINE would be OP, or you just wanted it to be exactly like it was out the box in 2013? Good thing you don't pay anything for this free content you have no interest in.

 

You probably get upset every year you upgrade your cellphone too.

I don't complain either. If I don't like an update, I just don't use it...Like Lowriders.

[DrSweatySphincter]

I would have been cool with a human-trafficking business. Importing immigrants and turning them into hookers.

If they pulled a stunt like this I would laugh so hard. While we're at it, why are there no high schools in this game where I can relive Columbine just because.

As for the hookers, as long as they are LEGAL immigrants then it is ok if not....

[HamwithCheese]

What made gtao work? Free mode was only that. A place to hang out with friends in private lobbies, and a place for the try hards to stroke their ego. Then, you could do some contact missions and earn enough money to buy that reasonably priced car. It was controlled.

 

Now, everything needs to be done in Free mode. Some vehicles can only be used in Free mode. The juggernaut suit can only be used in free mode. They tell you, that you have more freedom in the game with more business opportunities and shiny cars to buy, but in the end, they've only placed more restrictions. Why?

 

 

Shark Cards.

Edited August 28, 2017 by HamwithCheese

[Pedinhuh]

They just want to cater to Shark Card "whales" so they can keep the money rolling in.

 

And most of the shark card whales demography is composed of "BANG BANG" type of players.

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

Remember when GTA V had the guts to include a very graphic and extra-pointless torture scene to make a statement, inevitable moral guardian backlash be damned? I almost didn't.

I do remember, that's what I meant when I said that GTA used to push boundaries on purpose to be controversial. If such thing like human trafficking was implemented, it would be in Single Player only, think the Pimping missions in GTA:SA.

 

The thing is with how monetized GTAO is, I don't think that R* (and Take Two) want to take a great risk doing that just for shock value. Such controversial content in an online game would backfire badly.

 

Just my opinion of course.

[xDatxJunkyx]

You know so much about me. Go on enlighten me some more. What is my favorite color?

 

Maroon

[RollsReus1959]

Lets not act like human trafficking is suddenly in bad taste for R* standards.

 

You guys will enjoy it if it as implemented properly.

[HamwithCheese]

 

You know so much about me. Go on enlighten me some more. What is my favorite color?

Maroon

Its Edgy Pure Black.

[DrSweatySphincter]

Lets not act like human trafficking is suddenly in bad taste for R* standards.

 

You guys will enjoy it if it as implemented properly.

You wanna make real money? Dirty little secret for you, it's other people.

[MisFit-138]

I think the reason nobody takes you guys seriously is the need many of you have to generalize, label, degrade, and dismiss anyone who doesnt hold your narrow view of GTA. When people have a good point, they dont need to use a bunch of insults and holier-than-thou shade to get it noticed. It's as if most of you measure your passion and fandom in cynicism and obtuse thinking. Cynicism is a pretty repulsive trait, to be honest, so if you want to be taken seriously stop presenting yourselves as ill-tempered children.

[HKM87]

IKR? GTA has always been in America (except for GTA London)

 

Yet in GTA f*cking online it's seems like f*cking Dubai with all these damn super cars.

[Commander S]

Remember when GTA V had the guts to include a very graphic and extra-pointless torture scene to make a statement, inevitable moral guardian backlash be damned? I almost didn't.

 

Thing is, though, that scene's whole point is ...actually one of the moments where GTA V provides some actual solid social commentary. A heavy-handed government agent hires one criminal to brutalise an innocent man (and get you, the player, to do the deed!), in order to extract information to feed to another criminal assigned to assassinate someone on flimsy evidence.

 

...granted, the effect of all that does get undercut somewhat by Trevor spelling it out to the audience when you drive Kerimov to the airport, but still...

 

 

Lets not act like human trafficking is suddenly in bad taste for R* standards.

 

You guys will enjoy it if it as implemented properly.

 

...yeah, no. If R* ever does plonk it into the game, I'll pass, ta.

[SHADOW OPS]

 

 

You know so much about me. Go on enlighten me some more. What is my favorite color?

Maroon

Its Edgy Pure Black.

It's actually orange. My friends and I don't play any less so it still " works "

 

biased thread is biased.

[ViceOfLiberty]

Here's my vision of what I always imagined GTA:O to be, since the release of III, but especially at V's launch when I was waiting to dive into Los Santos via the internet.


My cousin calls me up after work telling me to get on GTA:O, since he just reached the end of a mission line and was awarded a drug supplier contact, and he needs some help moving his sh*t. I agree and text my brother telling him to get online and meet me at my safehouse. I'm waiting outside my place in the blacked out Oracle when my brother rolls up, parks, and hops in the car. We pull off and speed through Los Santos across town to my cousin's joint to load up this sh*t and start making some deals, when a Cavalcade full of masked up dudes pulls out behind us from a side street. It must be a bunch of bored kids on Friday night pulling jack moves in LS. I slam on brakes to bust down an alley when the SUV smashes into my rear bumper. The guys start hanging out of the window and blasting off at us. Luckily I did enough import/export jobs that I unlocked bulletproof windows...that really saved our ass this time! My brother's always been good with the pistol so he aims back and puts a whole magazine through the front windshield, taking out the driver. The Cavalcade crashes and we laugh, getting back on the path to pick up the stuff.

 

We arrive at my cousin's safehouse and I pull my car in the garage. Upon entrance I see a stack of crates on the back wall, and am prompted to "press left arrow to take a bag of drugs." We say what's up to my cousin and we each take a bag. Now our characters are each wearing a duffle bag that we have to deliver to the buyer. We hop back in the Oracle and I follow the GPS my cousin set. It seems like we're going deep into Vagos territory. We're unsure how this is going to go, none of us have ever done a drug deal task like this before, so it should be interesting. We pull up behind an industrial building to a group of about 10 Vagos standing guard, and we're prompted to leave the vehicle and exchange the duffle bags for money by approaching the gang member with the briefcase.

Just as we get out of the car a red Cheetah rushes into the mix and two guys hop out with AK's. The one driving has a sh*t load of jewelry on to match his gold engraved rifle. This dude must play alot, he's got all the status symbols. I bet they make their cash busting up deals like this. Since we're in a free aim lobby, we have time to duck down behind the Oracle, bulletproof windows saving our ass AGAIN, while these guys are lighting everything up. Vagos are dropping everywhere! Not only are the Vagos shooting at the robbers, they're shooting at us too! We decide to ditch the cash and let them have it, so we quickly hop in the Oracle and peel off, barely getting away. Good thing we all had body armor on. I'm hauling ass off when I see the Cheetah roll up, SMG fire tearing through the Oracle, so I cut a quick left and hop on the freeway, using the traffic to block the gunfire since the bulletproof windows are compromised at this point. They can only take so much damage until they disintegrate. I can't shake him, but my cousin and brother are providing enough SMG fire back at the Cheetah to have the driver focused on driving and the passenger ducked down so he doesn't get hit. We're all running low on ammo at this point, but there's no way we would survive a stop at Ammunation. We have a couple stars and the cops are in the mix now!

I exit the freeway, drifting around corners, pushing the Oracle to its absolute limits to survive. If we lose these drugs we're out about 15 G's. That's money we desperately need. A car pulls out in front of me and we smash into it, rolling the car. As it lands on its roof and catches fire, we kick the doors off and get out, running down an alley. Luckily the car blocked the entrance to the alley and our pursuers can't approach it because it's about to explode. One of them catches a lucky headshot on my cousin and he drops his duffle bag. Damnit! My brother and I can still save 10 G's though. It seems like the robbers are satisfied with the cash from the Vagos and 1 bag of our drugs, so they take it to their contact to exchange for cash, leaving us alone. As we come out of the alley another player rolls up and honks the horn at us, so we get in. He drives us to his safehouse, where we get out, just as he pulls out his shotgun and blasts us in the back. f*cker got our drugs!

I spawn at the hospital with nothing. No ammo, no cash. Everything I was carrying got dropped when I died... that's the risk of the crime life. This game is really intense. I gotta get to an ATM to grab some cash so I can hit up Ammunation. My phone rings, it's one of my friends. "Hey man, you on GTA:O? I found out that one of the local FlEEca branches has an armored car scheduled at 10AM game time every few game days. If we time it right, we can take the armored car AND the bank vault at the same time, you know anyone who's down?"

TO BE CONTINUED.

Lol.
Point being, the same intensity can be achieved without all the over the top stuff, and it can be a lot more immersive just by simply limiting the experience to an exaggerated form of reality rather than a complete Michael Bay movie scene.

Even alot of the missions and tasks could have the exact same mechanic, just with less bullsh*t around it.

Reality: My brother gets in the car and we head down the street, probably going to end up shooting cops and robbing convenient stores because we don't really want to race hotwheels cars or take part in some never ending death match where everyone wears purple helmets or steal something for the IAA in a 2 hour long heist. A fox furry with nothing but boxers appears behind us on a flying jet bike and blows us up. I spawn 100 feet away and a speeding armored military vehicle with a turret on top runs me over. I spawn again and a guy dressed like Snake-Eyes from G.I. JOE drives by and throws a sticky bomb out the window, blowing me up.

Edited August 28, 2017 by ViceOfLiberty

[Jamwes]

In my opinion, Gunrunning and Smuggler was supposed to be over the top because they were supposed to be the last DLC before RDR2. It was the last update that would draw in a lot of the Rockstar fan base. RDR2 was supposed to be this fall, so we would've had a couple months playing this and buying the last expensive toys before moving on to the new game. They wanted to go big and "cool" to draw in as many players (and their wallets) as they could.