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Shermhead

Fake News

Fake News  

80 members have voted

  1. 1. Is there fake news?

    • Yes, I believe there is some politically biased mainstream news channels
    • No, I believe mainstream news is legitimate and honest
    • I believe there's both honest and dishonest news, with some hiding their bias better than others
    • All mainstream news is bullsh*t
    • Other


Recommended Posts

sivispacem
11 minutes ago, ThatBenGuy said:

A Marxist is someone who follows the communist ideology of German psuedo-philosophers who call themselves Karl Marx and Frederick Engels. 

So, basically nothing even remotely close to what any mainstream US media outlet releases? The two are mutually exclusive. You can know what Marxism is, or you can believe that CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, The New York Times, and The Washington Post are Marxist media outlets. If you believe the latter, the former is empirically untrue. Asserting the latter is fact is a great way to get yourself laughed at by anyone more educated than you- which, if you believe the latter, is a very long list of people.

 

I mean, the WaPo is owned by Jeff Bezos, who's literally the richest man in the world. 

 

29 minutes ago, Eutyphro said:

He's the polar opposite of you politically, but that doesn't make him more brainwashed.

No, but believing that the MSM is actually Marxist and that Sean Hannity isn't a corporatist does.

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Eutyphro

Mainstream media aren't Marxist. They are economically center right. But they do espouse Anglicized postmodern politically correct ideological angles. I've pointed out many times a thread runs from Marxism to postmodernism, but Marxism isn't very interested in identity except for social class. Mainstream media use postmodern identity politics as a tool for neoliberal goals like the free movement of people, or to generally deterministically box people into identitarian boxes to make them passive, marginalized, and susceptible to commercialism.

Edited by Eutyphro

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ThatKyloRenGuy

The thing I hate most about CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, The New York Times, and The Washington Post is that they are all very hateful organizations. They hate Donald Trump. They hate guns. They hate hunting. They hate fishing. They hate capitalism. They hate America. They hate religion. Some of the very few things those organizations actually like include socialism, power, and censorship.

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RedDagger

That's a lot to pick apart there so I'm going to focus on the one thing, what about the US media actually makes them socialist/marxist? 

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Tchuck
1 hour ago, RedDagger said:

That's a lot to pick apart there so I'm going to focus on the one thing, what about the US media actually makes them socialist/marxist? 

Mainly the fact that the guy up there doesn't have a clue what socialism and marxism is.

 

Quote

They hate Donald Trump

So, criticizing Donald Trump = hating him? I've yet to see any evidence for any news media "hating" Trump. I see them criticizing him a lot, scrutinizing his every move. But to hate him? I don't think that's even remotely true. Can you point us to the hate?

 

Or if you do equal criticism with hating, and I suppose you don't hate Trump, you also approve of the concentration camps near the border, right?

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Hmmm nice bike
2 hours ago, ThatBenGuy said:

The thing I hate most about CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, The New York Times, and The Washington Post is that they are all very hateful organizations. They hate Donald Trump. They hate guns. They hate hunting. They hate fishing. They hate capitalism. They hate America. They hate religion. Some of the very few things those organizations actually like include socialism, power, and censorship.

Just out of curiosity, what is your opinion on local news outlets? Some ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox stations (mostly the ones in major cities) are owned directly by their main networks (with local Fox affiliates being almost completely different from Fox News Channel, the difference is like night and day when you watch local Fox vs national Fox), but a majority are by other companies using the names ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox.

 

Of course, the Sinclair Broadcast Group is the most infamous one of those companies, but they own no stations in my city (yet, until the Tribune merger goes through).

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ThatKyloRenGuy

I still mostly just listen to individual conservative talk shows as I mostly just avoid corporate news altogether as I said before.

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Tchuck
6 minutes ago, ThatBenGuy said:

I still mostly just listen to individual conservative talk shows as I mostly just avoid corporate news altogether as I said before.

Right. Except that the people you mentioned you listen to (Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity) are absolutely part of corporate news.

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make total destroy
4 hours ago, ThatBenGuy said:

CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, The New York Times, and The Washington Post are all in deed examples of Marxists and leftists!

i f*cking wish. too bad none of those are 'Marxist' or even 'leftist' in any way.

4 hours ago, ThatBenGuy said:

Yes, I am aware of what BOTH 'Marxist' and 'leftist' mean.

evidently, you are not.

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make total destroy
36 minutes ago, ThatBenGuy said:

I still mostly just listen to individual conservative talk shows as I mostly just avoid corporate news altogether as I said before.

so basically you just let glenn 'reds under my bed' beck, sean 'drunken calamity' hannity, and rush 'give me some more painkillers' limbaugh think for you? i can see why you don't think they're 'corporate news' given that they're just pundits digesting new stories with their own ideology and sh*tting them directly into your ears. that sh*t can't even be considered 'news',

 

3 hours ago, ThatBenGuy said:

They hate capitalism. They hate America. They hate religion.

stop making centre-right media outlets that operate entirely in the interests of capital sound cooler than they actually are

 

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Doctor Holliday
4 hours ago, ThatBenGuy said:

I mostly just listen to individual conservative talk shows

Well, this answers a lot of questions.

You don't seem to know what Marxism is, you don't seem to know what Socialism is, you don't actually seem to be familiar with the nightly content of MSN, CNN, or Fox... and your justification is that you listen to a lot of Conservative talk radio?

 

You'll never see how delusional and ignorant you are when your head is so deep in the sand. In case you weren't aware, most Conservative talk shows are also funded and supported by major corporate interests, often the same ones who pay the salaries of MSN, CNN, and Fox employees. So while you may think you're above the fray, you've done nothing more than play directly into the propaganda and lies. You can disagree with Liberals all you want, but if you actually believe that MSN and CNN 'hates America' you're just dumb and wrong :lol:

America is the reason they're all wealthy and on TV every night. They love it here. Just because they espouse different political views doesn't mean they hate America. What an incredibly stupid thing to say... in addition to the several stupid statements you've made recently.

Edited by Doctor Holliday

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DareYokel

Man, I can hardly believe that ThatBenGuy isn't a troll. The fact that people like him are real is partially hilarious, but mostly just tragic and scary. These people literally don't want to listen to anything that doesn't confirm their biases and prejudices. How the f*ck does anyone sane listen to anything that Sean Hannity has to say?

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Doctor Holliday
1 hour ago, Darth Yokel said:

Man, I can hardly believe that ThatBenGuy isn't a troll. The fact that people like him are real is partially hilarious, but mostly just tragic and scary.

Poe's Law has become a phenomenon in reality.

It already had a rich history in the gay liberation, like when people deliberately troll'd as members of the Westboro Baptist Church in order to highlight the intolerant agenda of political Christians, but it's become more prevalent than ever in the post-Obama era; racially motivated Conservative backlash, the McCarthy-ism of labeling people as pro- or anti-American, the so-called Men's Rights movement, Neo Nazi's marching with tiki torches shouting about Jews, and other subcultures who had been previously (and rightfully so) suppressed by the establishment.

 

But political leadership and courage is long dead, especially in the Republican party, where the perception of 'winning' is the only the thing that matters.

 

https://www.wired.com/2017/06/poes-law-troll-cultures-central-rule/

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sivispacem
11 hours ago, ThatBenGuy said:

The thing I hate most about CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, The New York Times, and The Washington Post is that they are all very hateful organizations. 

So you're not going to be drawn on why you claimed they were Marxist? Poor form. Tell me, why are you in D&D unless it's to discuss?

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Saggy
On 6/21/2018 at 11:20 PM, Darth Yokel said:

Man, I can hardly believe that ThatBenGuy isn't a troll. The fact that people like him are real is partially hilarious, but mostly just tragic and scary. These people literally don't want to listen to anything that doesn't confirm their biases and prejudices. How the f*ck does anyone sane listen to anything that Sean Hannity has to say?

What's really scary is that people like him aren't the minority.

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TheExecutor10

It's ironic how @Darth Yokel says that "these" people don't want to listen to things that don't confirm their biases and right after that asks how you can possibly listen to Sean Hannity.

 

My personal advice is at least to try to question your own biases and prejudices if you are judging others. Everybody likes a certain political source, no one can honestly say they think outside every frame and investigate every situation from every possible angle through every possible perspective while maintaining a high degree of objectivity all the time. The greatest obstacle to achieve that goal is time, even if you are patient, open, interested, smart, efficient and dedicated.

 

The truth and facts don't conform with politics. True facts, science, politics, philosophy and religion can not be combined, they need to be viewed as separate entities. No politician or political journalist/reporter will face and reveal all the facts, as some facts will always undermine their ideology. TV/radio stations and political parties all have a certain set mindset. Some try to look outside of it, others openly admit that they think in a certain direction.

 

 

Edited by TheExecutor10

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RedDagger

I get the sentiment, but facts and the truth are half the point in playing politics, especially if you venture outside the realm of sound bites and power moves. You seem to be implying that someone who checks their biases and tries to stick with untwisted facts wouldn't be so quick to write off talking heads like Hannity, as if he's someone who they merely disagree with or have an innate bias against, whereas it's perfectly justifiable to write them off since they are demonstrably against the facts and reasoned opinion often enough.

 

There's no need to put every outlet on the same level, some really do just obviously suck and don't deserve a second pass of putting away one's biases. Some are really just a lot more neutral than the rest. These things don't exist in a vacuum, we have context to come to these conclusions. 

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DareYokel
13 hours ago, TheExecutor10 said:

It's ironic how @Darth Yokel says that "these" people don't want to listen to things that don't confirm their biases and right after that asks how you can possibly listen to Sean Hannity.

Sean Hannity is a propagandist and he lies through his teeth. It's not even difficult to debunk the sh*t he says. A child could do it. The fact that many people listen to him is scary as f*ck.

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Raavi
14 hours ago, TheExecutor10 said:

True facts, science [...] can not be combined, they need to be viewed as separate entities.

wat

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make total destroy

At least Glenn Beck told people to read The Coming Insurrection. Tbh I wanna live in Glenn Beck's world where communists are going to crush capital and destroy everything at any given moment.

 

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TheExecutor10
3 hours ago, Raavi said:

wat

Science was sure the earth is flat, the possible true fact says otherwise. We will never know the truth.

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RedDagger

"Science" wasn't "sure the earth is flat", you should probably put down the pop-history books. 

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TheExecutor10
9 minutes ago, RedDagger said:

"Science" wasn't "sure the earth is flat", you should probably put down the pop-history books. 

I know many scientists including Galilei said otherwise, and that state religion and philosophy were the dominating factors.

 

I just wanted to point out that there were given scientific reasons back in the days for the flat earth theory and it was the public opinion. The true fact says otherwise though, that's why science is not always the "truth", even though science is the way to learn about true facts.

Edited by TheExecutor10

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sivispacem
19 minutes ago, TheExecutor10 said:

I know many scientists including Galilei said otherwise, and that state religion and philosophy were the dominating factors.

Difference is Gallileo was right because he had evidence- giving credence to views which are simply not based in evidence because historically religious and political figures suppressed the truth is a complete non sequitur.

 

I appreciate you're effectively agreeing with me here but the logical approach to tackling all pundits is to be wary of the veracity of what they say. Even if the surrounding facts are true or at least not complete hogwash, the conclusions derived from them may be drivel.

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RedDagger
27 minutes ago, TheExecutor10 said:

I know many scientists including Galilei said otherwise, and that state religion and philosophy were the dominating factors.

 

I just wanted to point out that there were given scientific reasons back in the days for the flat earth theory and it was the public opinion. The true fact says otherwise though, that's why science is not always the "truth", even though science is the way to learn about true facts.

The whole Galileo/state religion thing was about heliocentrism, not flat earth. Flat earth was never a scientific thing.

 

Again, put down the pop-history book. 

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TheExecutor10
45 minutes ago, RedDagger said:

The whole Galileo/state religion thing was about heliocentrism, not flat earth. Flat earth was never a scientific thing.

 

Again, put down the pop-history book. 

Lol Galilei supported the fact the earth is spherical, even though there was evidence of it half a century ago for this, many people still believed the earth is flat. Flat earth was indeed a scientific thing, even if Galilei mostly only advanced Copernicus theories, there was still the disbelief at his lifetime the earth is flat and he had a different opinion, but it wasn't his main focus, that's for sure.

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sivispacem

Actually he's entirely correct, the argument with Gallileo was about heliocentrism and flat earth theory was never properly supported by anyone in modern or premodern scientific history. The notion of a circular earth was accepted in Greek times, and the myth that flat earth theory was the overriding historical notion only really only appeared in the 19th century.

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TheExecutor10

Yes I know, but in the 1600s many people still believed the earth was flat in Europe, even though like you said it was accepted before that it was round, going all the way back to roughly 200BC. I'm aware of that. In addition to the disbelief the sun orbited the earth, there was the disbelief the earth was flat. Many people believe the myth the scientists were always right and that the religions suppressed the scientific work, although there were still "trusted" scientists going all the way to the late 1700s that gave scientific reason to their flat earth theory. I know that in popular opinion Galilei was mainly about heliocentrism. I already stated he advanced Copernicus theories, but he also debunked the flat earth by that. I just wanted to make a point by referring to the popular Galilei, probably should have referred to Magellan or Eratosthenes.

Edited by TheExecutor10

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sivispacem
1 hour ago, TheExecutor10 said:

Yes I know, but in the 1600s many people still believed the earth was flat in Europe

This is simply not true, no matter how much you insist it is. And herein lies an important lesson about confusing "accepted wisdom" with fact.

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Tyler

Imagine how stupid you have to think our ancestors were to never in their tens of thousands of years before the 19th century figure out that the Earth isn't flat. The overwhelming prejudice against them is kind of ridiculous. Like, you can walk up a tall enough hill and see the curvature of the horizon. It's even more obvious when you live near the coast, like most of humanity did. I mean, it's presumptuous--a purely Enlightenment ideal, to assume that all who came before us were ignorant to the point that they lacked basic sense of place. It's almost an insult, but I guess they're all dead anyway so who cares?

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