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Jarlaxle

Fight Net Neutrality, Save the Internet!

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AiraCobra

jFvTVDn.png

 

We're almost there, We only need a few republicans who actually care about the people they represent and fall out of the party line and vote with the democrats like they did with the repeal of Obamacare

 

It is true that the vote would go to the House and even if it passed there would likely be vetoed by Trump. Still, I think it shows that the public outcry and demonstrations against the repeal have made some effect. Fingers crossed that the pressure to reverse the ruling continues!

Edited by Ai®aCob®a

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HaRdSTyLe_83

 

 

If it is repealed, there will be numerous lawsuits and court battles that will follow.

 

With all that said, Im finding it increasingly hard that Americans are going to put up and pay for internet the way some other countries like Portugal pays for mobile data (the only thing keeping ISPs from nickeling and diming is there is a lot of competition. Thats not the case here). If/ when ISPs start to try institute packages for different parts of the web, I think youre going to see a MASSIVE pushback amongst people in this country.... maybe even bordering on rioting. I just have a hard time seeing much of this country just bending over and taking it.

 

I pay like 15 for unlimted down/upload at 100mb speed, no restrictions etc...,and mine is just the low/standard in here

PORTUGAL

 

Those plans that everyone keeps pointing out are made for parents that dont whant their kids browsing other sites outside of the pack

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Shaytan
Posted (edited)

 

If it is repealed, there will be numerous lawsuits and court battles that will follow.

 

With all that said, Im finding it increasingly hard that Americans are going to put up and pay for internet the way some other countries like Portugal pays for mobile data (the only thing keeping ISPs from nickeling and diming is there is a lot of competition. Thats not the case here). If/ when ISPs start to try institute packages for different parts of the web, I think youre going to see a MASSIVE pushback amongst people in this country.... maybe even bordering on rioting. I just have a hard time seeing much of this country just bending over and taking it.

 

I pay like 15 for unlimted down/upload at 100mb speed, no restrictions etc...,and mine is just the low/standard in here

PORTUGAL

 

Those plans that everyone keeps pointing out are made for parents that dont whant their kids browsing other sites outside of the pack

 

Everyone brings up that "Portugal has no Internet neutrality and they have to pay extra to use apps" bullsh*t because of this overly sensationalized and completely fake news, as explained in The Verge. Again, as I've mentioned earlier, the data plans in question are NOT limiting the users to said apps, but instead offer extra mobile data over the base plan the user already has for everything, so that if e.g. someone uses Facebook a lot, instead of having like 5Gb of monthly data plan for everything (including Facebook), can have like 15 extra Gb of data for Facebook. Still, the regulating entity is still investigating the legality of such data plans according to the principles of Net neutrality.

 

Meo data plan; here's what the US media didn't show you:

 

AQrLwal.jpg

 

tV8D34R.jpg

 

Not to speak that anyone who has the slightest knowledge of how EU legislation works would know no country that is part of the EU could act against the general directive regarding Net neutrality.

 

Thanks for also supporting what I've been arguing so that our misinformed folks won't continue spreading media lies, even though that last sentence of yours is false as well.

Edited by Shaytan

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HaRdSTyLe_83

It seems that in "the land of the free" nothing is... And in subjects like this i always thought america was a step ahead of small countries like Portugal.

 

Be a little more informed about said subject before pointing out something that is far better then what you have

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Shaytan
Posted (edited)

i always thought america was a step ahead of small countries like Portugal.

That's what American patriots want to believe. By no means Portugal is a perfect country, but we have free medical care (depending of the type examination or treatment you're looking to get it might take more or less time, but it's free for everyone and nobody will get either kicked out of the emergencies room or going home with a gigantic bill that'll put your family in dept for at least the next generation for not having health insurance), free quality education (aside the school books publishing company monopoly, but hey, isn't that a corporate scheme that resembles a lot typical US practices? - unless if you live near the average gypsy community or problematic neighborhood), affordable public college degrees you enter based on your grades and not on how large your pockets your family pockets are AND that have recognition in the job market, for example.

 

Perhaps we don't have big brand names and our producing industry is mostly based in feedstock and other goodies instead, yet we're the ones who make some of the best quality products inside that category, such as fine wine, cork or cloth, not to speak that, unlike what Americans have, we make REAL olive oil, honey and quality meat that are mass produced and affordable.

Edited by Shaytan

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AiraCobra

HSn5WvT.jpg

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Cosmic Gypsy

I gotta say, after all this talk, I'm not feeling too confident at what the Tories will do once Brexit is over with.

https://news.sky.com/story/net-neutrality-what-a-us-vote-means-for-the-uk-11170224

:: So, we're winning against the Americans?

Maybe. There's still the Brexit-factor. As Mr Johnson-Williams noted, the Government plans to convert EU net neutrality rules along with much of the rest of EU law into British law using the Great Repeal Bill.

The Government may at this point amend or repeal current law, as it sees appropriate. "We'll have to keep an eye out to see if the net neutrality rules are altered post-Brexit," Mr Johnson-Williams added.

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AiraCobra

W02Q7sz.png

578qsbT.png

cyNdoPj.jpg

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Black Terminator
Posted (edited)

WASHINGTON — A resolution to restore the FCC’s net neutrality rules passed the Senate on Wednesday, giving Democrats a victory on what they see as a potent issue going into the 2018 midterms.

The Senate voted 52-47 on the resolution. Three Republicans joined with Democrats — Sen. Susan Collins of Maine, Sen. John Kennedy of Louisiana, and Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska.

If it is ultimately passed by Congress and signed by President Trump — a big if — the net neutrality rules that the FCC had in place since 2015 would be restored. The agency’s Republican majority voted in December to repeal them.

The FCC voted 3-2 to roll back many of the existing net neutrality rules, including those prohibiting internet service providers from blocking or throttling of content, or from selling so-called “fast lanes” for speedier access to consumers.

 

 

The repeal goes into effect on June 11.

The FCC’s Republican majority, led by chairman Ajit Pai, claims that the rules were choking off investment and imposed service regulation on broadband akin to that placed on phone companies in the 1930s. The FCC also repealed the regulatory underpinning for the rules, in which internet service was classified as a common carrier.

 

RELATED Senate to Vote on Restoring FCC Net Neutrality Rules Startups Rally for Net Neutrality as Democrats Gear Up for Vote

 

The FCC’s move stirred opposition in Congress and in statehouses. Lawmakers in California, for instance, are weighing legislation, while a coalition of 23 state attorneys general are seeking to turn back the FCC’s action in court.

The Senate resolution — led by Sen. Edward Markey (D-Mass.) — enables Congress to overturn agency actions within a certain timeframe and by majority vote.

On the Senate floor, Markey said that “this is a defining vote, the most important vote that we are going to have in this generation on net neutrality.”

“It goes right to the heart of our identity as a free and open society,” he said.

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) said that the interest in the issue crosses geographic lines. “For rural America, without the Markey resolution, it means that the net moves along at a snail’s pace. It means rural businesses have a harder time getting off the ground and reaching customers,” he said.

The Senate’s move may end up being merely symbolic. It must pass in the GOP-controlled House, and it also must secure the signature of Trump. The White House has expressed its support for the FCC’s move in December to repeal the net neutrality rules, and Trump has often touted his ability to roll back government regulations.

Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.), the chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, said that the resolution was a “bizarre exercise” that isn’t “going anywhere.” He called it a “political, partisan charade.”

He noted that he proposed legislation back in 2015 that would ban blocking and throttling, as well as paid prioritization, but he has so far been unable to get a co-sponsor from the Democratic side.

He said that the debate has been driven by “fear-mongering, hypotheticals, misdirection and outright false claims.” He also said that what is happening is that the issue has been “bouncing back and forth” as the FCC’s ideological makeup shifts with each presidential administration.

 

 

The FCC did not roll back rules that require internet providers to disclose their traffic management practices, with complaints largely handled through the Federal Trade Commission. Net neutrality advocates believe that the FTC’s authority to do so is weaker than that of the FCC.

Internet providers have characterized net neutrality as an issue that has yet to become a problem.

Some of those companies are seizing on the latest debate to call for rules that apply not just to them, but internet companies like Google, Facebook and Twitter. AT&T’s Tim McKone, its executive vice president of federal relations, said that they favor legislation “that applies to all internet companies and guarantees neutrality, transparency, openness, non-discrimination and privacy protections for all internet users.”

 

http://variety.com/2018/politics/news/net-neutrality-senate-vote-1202812311/

Edited by Spider-Vice

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sivispacem

Tu quoque aside, the corporatised US system is far more oppressive and restrictive than pretty much anywhere in the EU. We generally don't have local monopolies, which explains the huge gulf in prices and quality of service. 

 

The draft EU legislation is idiotic, but no moreso than trying to compel service providers to install magical backdoors in cryptography. Frankly, the views of governments the world over is so out of kilter with technical realities as to be laughable so citing other stupid legislation doesn't really tell you much.

 

Meanwhile I'm much happier in a position where I pay £40 a month for enterprise grade FTTC with no limits or data restrictions, no throttling, a dedicated static IP address and north of 20-meg upload despite only living on the edge of a midsized town rather than running the gauntlet of single provider monopolies and diabolical service provided for extortionate prices, as well as the bullying tactics employed to push small providers out of business that seem rife in the US ISP market.

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sivispacem

Heh, it wasn't a cyberattack at all. It was a poorly configured website that allowed arbitrary uploads of basically anything you wanted without validation or verification. No wonder the spammers started using it to hawk fake tax invoices laden with malware.

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AiraCobra
On 6/21/2018 at 2:56 PM, sivispacem said:

Tu quoque aside, the corporatised US system is far more oppressive and restrictive than pretty much anywhere in the EU. We generally don't have local monopolies, which explains the huge gulf in prices and quality of service. 

1

This issue exactly one of the biggest issues,

 

In the area I live in is 50% Rural & 50% Residental and 20 minutes from the nearest big town so in which case folks in my area have two choices for your TV & Internet...

 

Spectrum (Time Warner) or AT&T U-Verse.

 

AT&T services for $100 a month you get TV & Internet and good luck attempting to play games on U-Verse bandwidth of exactly 10mbps while Spectrum offers up to 70mbps bandwidth with TV & Internet bundle those are our only two choices.

 

Now in the city, you can get faster speeds of up too 100mbps residential and 1GBPS for business only while U-Verse only offers 100mbps to business account owners which makes a lot of people to choose the lesser of the two evils Spectrum to get the faster speeds.

 

With everything, I just spoke about that is Residental only in the Rural part they only have ONE option U-Verse as Spectrum says there isn't a big enough customer base worth setting up lines in the rural area and it's like that across the whole country for rural homeowners with their TV & Internet.

On 8/14/2018 at 11:49 AM, sivispacem said:

Heh, it wasn't a cyberattack at all. It was a poorly configured website that allowed arbitrary uploads of basically anything you wanted without validation or verification. No wonder the spammers started using it to hawk fake tax invoices laden with malware.

Some people will believe a ketchup popsicle is actually cherry flavored

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Tchuck
5 hours ago, AiraCobra said:

In the area I live in is 50% Rural & 50% Residental and 20 minutes from the nearest big town so in which case folks in my area have two choices for your TV & Internet...

But you still have a choice. In huge swaths of America, there's no choice. It's a single provider, who holds a complete monopoly over it all stopping others from setting up shop. You either go with them, for sh*tty service, or you don't go at all.

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AiraCobra
23 hours ago, Tchuck said:

But you still have a choice. In huge swaths of America, there's no choice. It's a single provider, who holds a complete monopoly over it all stopping others from setting up shop. You either go with them, for sh*tty service, or you don't go at all.

That's exactly what I was talking about - 

Quote

 

With everything, I just spoke about that is Residental only in the Rural part they only have ONE option U-Verse as Spectrum says there isn't a big enough customer base worth setting up lines in the rural area and it's like that across the whole country for rural homeowners with their TV & Internet.

 

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Pico

Hey Sootytard, Verizon throttling usage on unlimited plans has been going on for a solid 5 years. Take your head out of your ass. As Verizon stated, and would be able to fully back up legally, that the throttling has no relation to NN in any way. The rebuttal from a "county official" (funny, couldn't give his name...) is simply "no it totally is NN!" What an argument. What a case he stated. If Verizon wasn't in their legal right to throttle data, again-something in place for many years, the government would take them to court over it. But they are in their legal right and have been, pre-and-post NN. 

 

I can understand the gullibility of you all after the insanely massive, coordinated propaganda efforts by media and tech giants (wonder why they all pushed keeping it so hard, almost as if it's better for THEM). But to continue thinking it made any negative impact against every day use of the internet is just 100%, absolutely f*cking ignorant. Get a grip, stop being the programmable bots of your puppet masters and do some actual research. Maybe then you can present good arguments, instead of sharing articles that are 100% fake. 

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AiraCobra
23 hours ago, Pico said:

do some actual research. Maybe then you can present good arguments, instead of sharing articles that are 100% fake. 

 

Maybe you should take your own advice and do some research of your own before calling someone out as fake....

 

It was actually 100% true Santa Clara County Fire Chief Anthony Bowden who is making the claims in a lawsuit against Verizon and this isn't just a one-off report from a random internet newspaper this has been reported widely by many news outlets such as NPR, CNN and more national and international recognizes news scores.

 

Verizon themselves admitted to wrongdoing on their part and even said We Should Have Lifted Restrictions  even after Verizon was made aware via the Fire Dept Communication center to Verizon that their Data had been throttled so much it was reduced to 56K/Dial Up Speeds which greatly hampered the Fire Dept ability to track and coordinate rescue responses to area in need to fire suppression that minute and ONLY lifted the throttling after the Fire Dept paid extra money for a more expensive plan.

 

Quote

In a statement to CNN, Verizon spokeswoman Heidi Flato said the company made a mistake.

"Regardless of the plan emergency responders choose, we have a practice to remove data speed restrictions when contacted in emergency situations," she said in an email. "We have done that many times, including for emergency personnel responding to these tragic fires. In this situation, we should have lifted the speed restriction when our customer reached out to us."

 

She said Verizon is reviewing the situation and "will fix any issues going forward."

 

Bowden said that his firefighters had to use other agencies' internet connections or their own personal devices to keep their communication system running.

1

https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/22/technology/verizon-firefighter-data-throttled/index.html

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Pico

In the very section you quote, it states "Regardless of the plan emergency responders choose, we have a practice to remove data speed restrictions when contacted in emergency situations," she said in an email." 

 

They have a "practice" to remove speed restrictions. That is true, and they often bring in additional equipment to the sites when possible. All the cost is on Verizon's end when they do it. A practice is not law. Prior to NN being passed, during it's implementation, and after it's removal there has been no legal requirement for them to provide maximum speeds during disasters.

 

I never argued that it was moral for them to cap the service, I only stated that what happened had absolutely ZERO relation to NN. You tell me that I need to take my own advice and research, but you just bring me more propaganda articles which further fail to link Verizon's throttling directly to a regulation that was included under NN. I guess I should take it a step further back and urge you to work on your comprehension skills first. 

 

I admit my initial reply was quite offensive, but simply due to how absurd this whole problem is. I'm disgusted at how easily so many people can be manipulated. It's maddening to see these counter-productive narratives pushed, and it's not even locally. Many in this thread are not even US citizens but they've been duped into thinking NN had any bearing on their access to the internet, while places like the UK are blocking out chunks of the internet at their whim. Aside from my anger at this situation, this is Gen Chat. There's a Tech chat on this site. Why isn't this in that subforum, let alone STICKIED in Gen chat? I think I could point to a key member that has radical biases and an agenda to push. 

 

If you guys want to discuss and investigate an important change to the governing of the internet, that most definitely impacts all around the world, then look into the transfer of ICANN to the UN. Wikipedia may gloss over the US handing full control over to the UN with a single sentence, but if you look into it further you will see that all it has lead to unimpeded censorship. 

 

edit: Oh, and as a side note, should you realize I'm correct about the Verizon situation, maybe take some time to consider why all of your precious news sources would share the same story. 

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ghost of delete key
Posted (edited)

Yeah, I know it's been mentioned...

but

 

THIS is what happens

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/verizon-throttled-fire-departments-unlimited-data-during-calif-wildfire/

 

The long and the short of it is, Verizon claims it was a "customer service issue" (which is bullsh!t), 

and Santa Clara calls them to the mat for forcing them to a higher-tier plan, which is what the  whole Net Neutrality issue is about.

 

Clearly, Verizon, AS USUAL, is playing their cash cow customers. REGARDLESS of who they are or what they do.

Edited by ghost of delete key
extra crap

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sivispacem
On 8/25/2018 at 2:00 AM, Pico said:

If you guys want to discuss and investigate an important change to the governing of the internet, that most definitely impacts all around the world, then look into the transfer of ICANN to the UN. Wikipedia may gloss over the US handing full control over to the UN with a single sentence...

Yeah, this is totally wrong. ICANN is not controlled by the UN; it's a multi-stakeholder global nonprofit organsiation that's independent of both national and international bodies.

It was frankly ridiculous that it remained being under the auspices of the USDOC for so long given that it's explicit role is the management of global namespace and numberspace addressing.

Even more ridiculous that you would infer that the removal of DOC oversight has resulted in additional censorship given that absolutely no internet censorship occurs at the level of infrastructure within ICANN's control (IE global root name servers). 

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