Take Two vs. Modding

[BS_BlackScout]

I'm pretty sure it was more than just that.

[gandalfthestupid]

I think OpenIV can make a comeback just not those map conversions

[Lozano71]

I just leave it here. https://support.rockstargames.com/hc/en-us/articles/115009494848

[GTAFanClub]

I do not see Open IV coming back. Maybe a rebranded "altered" version but that is even doubtful.

[LC-DDM]

It's actually pretty easy to understand, even if it is still a dick move. Basically, mods are fine, so long as they fall within a Creation Club-type box... without the curation. In layman's terms; new, original models are okay, Mario/Shrek/MGS/3D-era-GTA mods aren't. OpenIV is still shat on by T2, since the ambiguity of point II implies that any sort of online content data mining is sh*tcanned. And from what I'm seeing after point III, T2 can still shut you down if you have a mod they don't like that might even slightly improve quality of life.

So in short? "Yes, yes, you can still mod... provided it isn't anything new, interesting, or taken from GTAO into SinglePlayer. _{Buy more SharkCards, filthy freeloaders.}"

Edited June 23, 2017 by LC-DDM

[BS_BlackScout]

OpenIV will be/may come back.

 

 

1. "Rockstar says that it's in contact with OpenIV's developer and intends to resolve the issue."

 

2. "As Rockstar's statement says, Take-Two now intends to only go after mods that affect GTA Online, but at the moment it is still not clear how OpenIV can continue to allow users to modify the single player experience without facilitating cheating. Rockstar said it's in contact with Krivoruchko in order to figure that out, and judging by the statement, for now Take-Two will prioritize going after mods that ruin GTA Online."

 

Edited June 23, 2017 by BlackScout

[Reathyr]

It's 50% off, no wonder it's selling like hotcakes, heck all the fuss we kicked up only is gonna add to the sales, people wanna try modding now, and lets not forget the huge popularity of the GTAV RP streams on Twitch, people want to try that too, and you need a legal copy, and a Social Club account for FiveM to even work, so ya...it was going to sell good no matter what.

It was always going to be a statistic that Take-Two was going to abuse ("Look at how many copies of GTAV we sold during the summer sale") but don't care about, remember, if you're not buying Shark Cards you're filthy freeloader.

 

Spare me with all the twist reasoning bullsh*t.

Nobody is buying a game that banned modding for modding and $30 is still a lot for a 5 year old game.

The fact the game is still selling strong despite all the negative press proves Take-Two was right in thinking the modding community is an insignificant loud minority.

GTA modding is officially dead.

Yes, we're all dooooomed, welp no reason this place being here then, Mods, Admins please remove this forum and all other GTA modding forums, K0ol-G-R4P has GTA modding dead, so it must be true. /sarcasm

 

Really now? That's it? Take-Two makes a good sale at one of the biggest discount events of the year and that's it, you throw in the towel and call it all over?

 

News flash buddy, WE ARE AN INSIGNIFICANT LOUD MINORITY, we are small part of the smallest sales demographic of all the platforms that GTAV came out on, even with all the positive vibes of "well a lot of people bought the PC version particularly to mod", that lot of people aren't even half of the total PC player base.

That doesn't mean however we have to take it sitting down, "oh you're big bad megacorp and even with all our downvoting you still made huge sales, we give up", well no sh*t they made a huge f*cking sale, they always make a big sale at the Steam Summer Sale, and at the Black Friday Sale.

You really thought all the negative voting would change the opinions of the masses, all the downvotes are about not supporting mods, or about them pushing Shark Cards, most people don't care about that, heck a lot of these people probably had the game on their wishlist for months, this isn't going to change their minds, a lot of people don't even look at the ratings, they buy it because a friend of theirs plays it.

Mass complaining and downvoting about no longer allowing an unsupported feature has never, and will never change the buying behavior of the masses who do not care about said unsupported feature, it was never about that, this was us voicing our grievances in a clear way to Take-Two in a way that they would notice, but don't for one second think that this was going to impact sales, especially during the Steam Summer Sale, in any significant way.

Because if you believe that I've got a red bridge in San Fransisco I want to sell to you.

 

GTA modding isn't dead, ScriptHookV came out today officially, and eventually OpenIV or something similar will return, probably in a way that's harder to C&D, but if we're all going start saying "GTA modding is over, it's doomed", then it will become a self fulfilling prophecy and it will be over for real indeed.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Reathyr

[iShoTz]

Apparently they're working with goodnts and OpenIV may come back https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ywz87k/rockstar-games-talks-publisher-into-leaving-grand-theft-auto-v-modders-alone

[blitziii]

(iii) use or importation of other IP (including other Rockstar IP) in the project.

 

In my view this confirms our suspicion that the large map conversions are probably the reason for Take2's action against OpenIV.

[DuxFortis]

A glimmer of hope reflects off that Motherboard article.

 

Perhaps there will be a sanction for OpenIV to continue.

I really do believe R* can mend this broken pipe. I'm not in the position to tell. We can never really tell with R* nowadays can we?

I wait with bated breath what GooD-NTS can do with R* in this situation.

 

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

[nkjellman]

Glad that they may be working things out.

 

I just hope that they are smart enough to realize that LC requires you to own GTA IV and/or EFLC.

 

Think about it. Those games didn't sell very well on PC. If LC releases, a lot of people will buy GTA IV/EFLC to run the tool so they can enjoy it on V. More money for Rockstar/Take Two.

 

GoodNTS needs to show them that. Its like he is making an LC dlc for them, both player wise, and financially.

[germinus]

Well at least it looks like openiv might be thrown a lifeline of sorts.

[RedDagger]

Apparently they're working with goodnts and OpenIV may come back https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ywz87k/rockstar-games-talks-publisher-into-leaving-grand-theft-auto-v-modders-alone

Now, however, GTA V's developer Rockstar Games seems to have moderated Take-Two's position, and has also told Motherboard that it is in contact with Krivoruchko with the intention of resolving the issue.

Honestly, while it's good that this is happening, this should have happened from the start - such a large and important tool for modding should be handled a bit better than a C&D and some corporate hand-waving.

 

But more importantly, it's good that Rockstar's doing this.

[uNi]

Good turn of events all things considered.

[MeatSafeMurderer]

 

Apparently they're working with goodnts and OpenIV may come back https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ywz87k/rockstar-games-talks-publisher-into-leaving-grand-theft-auto-v-modders-alone

Now, however, GTA V's developer Rockstar Games seems to have moderated Take-Two's position, and has also told Motherboard that it is in contact with Krivoruchko with the intention of resolving the issue.

Honestly, while it's good that this is happening, this should have happened from the start - such a large and important tool for modding should be handled a bit better than a C&D and some corporate hand-waving.

 

But more importantly, it's good that Rockstar's doing this.

 

While it's true that it should have happened initially...the fact that it didn't until we spoke up has some meaning too...it means we may well have had a hand in this. We raised our voices...and they listened.

[wootwoots]

OpenIV will be/may come back.

 

 

1. "Rockstar says that it's in contact with OpenIV's developer and intends to resolve the issue."

 

2. "As Rockstar's statement says, Take-Two now intends to only go after mods that affect GTA Online, but at the moment it is still not clear how OpenIV can continue to allow users to modify the single player experience without facilitating cheating. Rockstar said it's in contact with Krivoruchko in order to figure that out, and judging by the statement, for now Take-Two will prioritize going after mods that ruin GTA Online."

 

 

Seems like the big sh*tstorm, so steam review have "motivated" them to do things right.

And if T2 was seeing red because map conversion, then, i guess its "not too bad" to loose that to still have OPENIV alive

 

But good news, and lets hope OPEN IV really come back.

[Gforce]

"Take-Two has agreed that it generally will not take legal action against third-party projects involving Rockstar’s PC games that are single-player, non-commercial, and respect the intellectual property (IP) rights of third parties.

This does not apply to (i) multiplayer or online services; (ii) tools, files, libraries, or functions that could be used to impact multiplayer or online services, or (iii) use or importation of other IP (including other Rockstar IP) in the project. "

No tools files etc that can impact online allowed, and no importing other R* game maps into any project.

What I read into this is that you can make your own custom TC maps with 3rd party tools and use them in any of their SP games, but you cannot use those tools on any of their games that have online services ie- GTA V.

this is whaere we need a separate exe file for GTA V SP and Online, that way tools could target SP and not work with the Online exe, this is something I was concerned about before the game was released on PC, would have made so much sense and avoided a sh*tload of issues for everyone, but R* wanted that seamless transition from SP to Online and back again.

there should also have been the ability to play SP completely logged out from RGSC once game key activation had occured by using hardware ID checks, that way SP modding would be possible and still not affect Online .................. shoulda woulda coulda.

I'm still surprised that nobody managed to hook into the Content Creator to use it like a map editor ..........


Edit: above ideas based on the assumption that the modder uses a duplicate/backup/mods game folder for SP modding as the Online exe would fail to run if it sensed modded main game files.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Gforce

[gandalfthestupid]

I'm willing to sacrifice the map conversions in order to have OpenIV come back

[nkjellman]

Perhaps if Rockstar were to give the OpenIV team some information that will help them crack more file formats...

 

Ether way, I hope that LC will be able to continue. It will benefit everyone.

[VoodooMods]

My take on this...

 

While I don't think it's a victory, especially for OpenIV, I think it's a call for a truce. Surely, they didn't like the negative reviews and bad press, which may or may not have been the reason why T2's stock dropped by about $1 in the past week - that, more than any boycott or petition attempt, has probably had some kind of impact on the situation. I doubt they'll resort to more legal threats in the future, apart from against hacks that are clearly intended to disturb the online experience.

 

I doubt OpenIV will come back. Unless there has been a confidential dialogue going on between them and Rockstar, it's clear to me that they'd rather abandon their work rather than make it more compliant to Rockstar's conditions. I've said from the beginning that I believe that the OpenIV's reaction and statements were grossly exaggerated (the whole "illegal" thing) and that they should have taken a more cautious (or a more defiant) approach, instead of just giving everything up and sending the whole community into a panic. I hope someone will pick up where they left and create a similar tool that will work within Rockstar's boundaries. Meanwhile, modding appears to be still alive, with the latest version of ScriptHook having been released, and several high-profile mods committing to pursuing their work. And don't forget that it's still very easy to get OpenIV and will probably remain so - at this point, Rockstar knows that it's not in their best interests to pursue its efforts against it. Apparently there IS a dialogue? Interesting. I'll wait to see where it goes, but this is sounding more and more like we actually made a difference.

 

As for the IP thing, I think it's about time we stop looking at it with the "modding is illegal" goggles. GTA V and GTA:O use the same EXE and are packaged together, I doubt they would count as separate IPs. Patches affect both products (including the introduction of GTA:O bugs in SP mode), so they can't be seen as two different things. This, IMHO, would mean that any mod/trainer that brings, for example, GTA:O vehicles to SP, event if it circumvents R*s attempt to block them, would not warrant their legal action as it's within the same IP. Besides, you'll notice that they've never been after those kinds of mods anyway, not even recently. If GTA:O is eventually packaged and sold/offered as a separate product, however (for example, if GTA:O eventually became a F2P game that doesn't include story mode), then I would probably advise to leave the GTA:O content in GTA:O. In all likeliness, I don't think this will happen with GTA V as it's nearing the end of its life cycle, but it would definitely be a possibilty when GTA 6 comes around.

 

If you really insist on using the "illegoggles" and want to think that you can only mod purely single player games, then consider that GTA III, VC & SA, Bully and LA Noire are the only Rockstar games that can be modded. However, you should realize that if this had been the case, they would have clearly mentioned it, considering that the modding scene is clearly centered around GTA IV and V.

 

TL;DR: Modding IS legal. There are just two things Rockstar doesn't want you to do: 1- f*ck around with the multiplayer/online experience. 2- Port a whole game/map to another. Everything else, I'm pretty sure they'll turn a blind eye to.

Edited June 23, 2017 by VoodooMods

[Gummy]

I'm glad something's been worked out. But I can't help but get pissed at the restriction of porting content between Rockstar IPs. Why? It's not like if someone had converted just the map of RDR or IV to V they would ultimately just prefer the modded V with the converted map and not buy the actual RDR or IV. I was eager to play LC in V or 3D era SA in V and the biggest mods I've been waiting for isn't going to come either despite the recent news.

[K0ol-G-R4P]

PC Single-Player Mods

 

Answer: Rockstar Games believes in reasonable fan creativity, and, in particular, wants creators to showcase their passion for our games.

 

After discussions with Take-Two, Take-Two has agreed that it generally will not take legal action against third-party projects involving Rockstar’s PC games that are single-player, non-commercial, and respect the intellectual property (IP) rights of third parties.

 

This does not apply to (i) multiplayer or online services; (ii) tools, files, libraries, or functions that could be used to impact multiplayer or online services, or (iii) use or importation of other IP (including other Rockstar IP) in the project.

 

This is not a license, and it does not constitute endorsement, approval, or authorization of any third-party project. Take-Two reserves the right to object to any third-party project, or to revise, revoke and/or withdraw this statement at any time in their own discretion. This statement does not constitute a waiver of any rights that Take-Two may have with respect to third-party projects.

 

https://support.rockstargames.com/hc/en-us/articles/115009494848

Not sure what this means for OpenIV but its good to have a statement that isn't complete bullsh*t.

[Claude_Lib]

 

Ether way, I hope that LC will be able to continue. It will benefit everyone.

What makes you think that? The statement is pretty clear:

 

 

(iii) use or importation of other IP (including other Rockstar IP) in the project.

I'm fairly certain RDRV, OIV's LC mod and all the online leaks have led to this C&D to begin with.

 

Come to think of it, it also means that converting cars from Forza or GTA IV (IVPack) is also illegal.

[Spider-Vice]

The Motherboard article is the bulk of all of this. They are talking with GooD which means there is dialogue!

[Kirsty]

Great news on OpenIV. Rockstar did good. It might seen vague to some but the statement is broad for a good reason, they have to protect themselves. The fact that Rockstar is somehow working with GooD to sort this out just shows their resolve.

 

Aside from those having illogical tantrums throughout, it's been good seeing you all come together

[Ash_735]

Hey guys, just to let you know:

 

> Rockstar HAVE contacted the OpenIV guys

> They want to resolve this as best they can and have said they support SP mods

> They have said they'll be talking with Take-Two

> This mainly happened due to all the negative press they've been getting on gaming websites (good work guys!)

> Map Modding is strictly off limits

> Rockstar hope that OpenIV will be able to go forward again with minor changes

 

edit: And yes I've been keeping this a secret from you, but that's how we have to be to make things work sometimes.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Ash_735

[Rachel Amber]

what do you mean map modding is off limits?? does this means no map mods?

[nkjellman]

 

Ether way, I hope that LC will be able to continue. It will benefit everyone.

 

What makes you think that? The statement is pretty clear:

 

(iii) use or importation of other IP (including other Rockstar IP) in the project.

 

I'm fairly certain RDRV, OIV's LC mod and all the online leaks have led to this C&D to begin with.

The reason is money. You still need to own GTA IV for LC to work. Remember that they aren't releasing LC. They are releasing a map converter which requires you to own the game.

 

I sure hope that LC ends up on the web somewhere.

[BS_BlackScout]

@Claude_Lib

 

This seems to be way more targeted to map mods/TCs than anything else. Think they really care about people putting Forza vehicles?

This happens since like San Andreas...

 

About IVPack... Could be.

Still, it's not the tool's fault. Also, like they said, they will rather target Online from now on. So, I guess it should be fine as well.

[Mr.Arrow]

So they're saying porting any Rocktsar Games's maps or assets are illegal right?

 

Does that mean we have to create our own assets? ......