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Killing old characters


Typhus
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78 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the next GTA kill more old characters?



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One of the things which has really puzzled me about GTA V is the fan reaction to the death of Johnny. There seem to be so many people who, for some baffling reason, dislike his death. In truth, I don't know why. I really liked Johnny, but the fact that we got some closure on his story and that they were brave enough to show him declining and losing his edge, was something I've wanted to see in GTA for years and years.

 

But how do you all feel about this kind of thing happening in the next game? If not, why?

Edited by Typhus
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I'll like to recruit Trevor Phillips as a heist member or kill him as a reward for The Lost, after finishing atleast 2 main story missions for Trevor or The Lost.

 


I'll like to raid Tommy Vercetti and kill him for his mansion. I'll like to see Claude return to Las Venturas with his girlfriend and kill them during a Casino Heists. We must likely won't be able to kill Niko, Luis, Franklin and Michael. But it would be cool to see Michael die in his next movie.

Edited by ~Tiger~
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There seem to be so many people who, for some baffling reason, dislike his death.

 

I think the reason for the reaction of many fans was not the fact that Johnny was killed, it was the manner by which he was killed. It was perceived as disrespectful to have him killed in that way.

 

I have no problem with main characters being killed. But I think it's fair to ask that they are killed in a fitting and respectable way, rather than in a clumsy attempt to stir controversy.

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PwnageSoldier

I think the reason for the reaction of many fans was not the fact that Johnny was killed, it was the manner by which he was killed. It was perceived as disrespectful to have him killed in that way.

 

I have no problem with main characters being killed. But I think it's fair to ask that they are killed in a fitting and respectable way, rather than in a clumsy attempt to stir controversy.

Very true. For example, as I'm a Trevor fan, I wouldn't like to see him get killed by a little pistol headshot from th new protag when he's proved how dangerous and badass he is. If Trevor was to get killed, I'd like him to die as the main antagonist because he could belong there as he's betrayed partnerships when they have no benefit to him.
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I think the reason for the reaction of many fans was not the fact that Johnny was killed, it was the manner by which he was killed. It was perceived as disrespectful to have him killed in that way.

 

I have no problem with main characters being killed. But I think it's fair to ask that they are killed in a fitting and respectable way, rather than in a clumsy attempt to stir controversy.

Very true. For example, as I'm a Trevor fan, I wouldn't like to see him get killed by a little pistol headshot from th new protag when he's proved how dangerous and badass he is. If Trevor was to get killed, I'd like him to die as the main antagonist because he could belong there as he's betrayed partnerships when they have no benefit to him.

 

See, I kind of disagree.

For me, there's more drama in seeing the heroes of older games as weaker than they were. It's more of a punch to the gut, when we realise that their decisions have caught up with them, but they're not the people they used to be.

Did you ever watch Deadwood? That's perhaps the best example I can think of. There's this character called Wild Bill, who used to be this great gunfighter, but by the time we meet him, he's a worn out old man, haunted by what he does. And the guy who kills him is a nobody, a nothing, but he has no fight left in him.

I don't know, I've just always liked the tragedy of it.

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PwnageSoldier

 

 

I think the reason for the reaction of many fans was not the fact that Johnny was killed, it was the manner by which he was killed. It was perceived as disrespectful to have him killed in that way.

 

I have no problem with main characters being killed. But I think it's fair to ask that they are killed in a fitting and respectable way, rather than in a clumsy attempt to stir controversy.

 

Very true. For example, as I'm a Trevor fan, I wouldn't like to see him get killed by a little pistol headshot from th new protag when he's proved how dangerous and badass he is. If Trevor was to get killed, I'd like him to die as the main antagonist because he could belong there as he's betrayed partnerships when they have no benefit to him.

 

See, I kind of disagree.

For me, there's more drama in seeing the heroes of older games as weaker than they were. It's more of a punch to the gut, when we realise that their decisions have caught up with them, but they're not the people they used to be.

Did you ever watch Deadwood? That's perhaps the best example I can think of. There's this character called Wild Bill, who used to be this great gunfighter, but by the time we meet him, he's a worn out old man, haunted by what he does. And the guy who kills him is a nobody, a nothing, but he has no fight left in him.

I don't know, I've just always liked the tragedy of it.

I agree. I like this, just if it's pulled off correctly. The squashing of Johnny K wasn't really pulled off that great. He needed a little more development for T to smash him. I'd personally like at least a mission showing where he is at and the addiction and etc and then next mission he gets killed, preferably by getting pushed down the stairs.
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Payne Killer

Johnny Klebitz death was a nice homage to his character and it probably made more people like him. But I would've preferred if he actually fought Trevor hand to hand and ended up being overpowered due to becoming weak from poor mental health and heavy Meth usage.

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thatstupidbug

No, because i feel cheated when this happens

 

"Do you rememer the hours spent with your beloved character, fighting and suffering and rejoycing together, and finally enjoying the happy ending? Well, too bad it was all for nothing, he soiled himself and died in a dirty motel.

What a waste of time"

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Naughtius Maximus

Yes, and no. I mean it's not like "My beloved fictional characters should not face death!", but it's more like if their ultimate downfall and eventual death are built on a well-thought basis, I wouldn't mind seeing them gone. For the matter of Johnny K, I'm not happy TBH. It's not just about seeing one of my favourite video game protagonist go, it's about HOW sh*tty it just happened. Johnny K became a miserable mess, and turned into a goddamn meth-tweaking junkie? No problemo. I mean, of course, this would hurt a geek like me, but I see all of that as a cheap attempt to show how much of a mentally unstable, crazy badass (!) our new protagonist Trevor is. This confuses all the loyal fans in a manner of old, simple "What the f*ck just happened?" but nothing more. Besides, although Trevor was the most dominantly featured protagonist of GTA V, his story didn't get us anywhere... his potential of being a great protagonist (despite the cheaply advertised introduction) just went to waste.

 

I am not bothered when I watch Pulp Fiction, and see Vincent getting blasted with a MAC-10 by Butch out of the blue as he comes back from taking a crap. First, PF is more of a dark bitter crime-comedy. Second, Vincent isn't the brightest tool in the shed as evidenced throughout the whole movie.

 

I don't mind seeing my favourite fictional characters getting blown off in a twist, I'm actually more fond of some sweet-bitter tragedy when there is the end for my favourite characters. For example, anybody who has seen The Wire would get this example. There's that dude called Bodie who is an ambitious player, happily slinging dope in the beginning of the story, under Avon Barksdale, a reputable and somewhat of a dignified drug lord. Bodie is passionate, ambitious and he obviously wants to make it big. However, after Barksdale's operation gets disbanded following internal disputes and big arrests, Bodie finds himself selling dope for Marlo Stansfield, the new king - a sociopath with no remorse to anyone.Towards the end of his story, we see Bodie, a strict follower of gangster code, be willing to snitch on Marlo because he believes that he's such a piece of sh*t that he needs to go immediately. At midnight, Marlo, who has sort of learnt Bodie's half-baked betrayal, dispatches his shooters on Bodie and they confront him on his corner. Bodie's best bud Poot runs away, but Bodie is protective of his corner and stays to stand his corner... Then, he dies in a Scarface-fashioned way... on his beloved corner. A good example of how dramatic and sensible downfall for a stand-out character should be constructed.

 

Like I said, some people think Johnny K's absurd death was necessary to make a "good" introduction on Trevor, show how much of a badass he is. Okay, it's acceptable to have a character iced by another to build something on the latter. However, that's got to be planned and executed perfectly. Remember the time

? That's how you do it! With all the information piled up previously, we get a glimpse of the bad blood between Fring and the Cartel, and we can make assumptions on the reason why Fring chose such a method to wipe out the Cartel. All smooth and clear.

 

In short, I have no problem with seeing old characters getting killed, but GTA has a serious tone and that should be done in a serious method if it is a "go".

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Algonquin Assassin

I don't have a problem with a character being brought back and killed as long as it makes sense and fits in with the story. The problem is most of the GTA IV/EFLC character deaths in GTA V feel like they're just there to piss off GTA IV/EFLC fans more than anything than to serve any meaningful purpose.

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I'm kinda divided. Johnny's death was, indeed, very unfortunate, but he was a nothing compared to what he was in TLaD. Back then, he'd do anything to defend The Lost MC and to protect Ashley. Some point down the line, he probably realized those things weren't worth fighting for: Ashley was still a whore and Trevor was destroying TLMC, combined with his drug addiction and he's the thing we see in V. I mean, he probably knew Trevor for a while now, and that the only chance of making him stop whatever he's doing is with a bullet through his brain, but he decided to simply tell him that "f*cking [his] girl is wrong, man.", so it's hard to say, but it was kinda good that he was killed near rock-bottom where he was almost powerless, it was just sad seeing his reality in V.

 

My point is, in Vic Vance's case, he was probably on the peak of his 'carreer' in the empire, and was killed unprepared in an ambush, when he was disarmed, distracted, without protection or a way to put a fair fight against automatic guns, even tho he could've unlike Johnny. His death wasn't as memorable, probably because he was 'just an NPC' in Vice City, and very few people played VCS, and even less people know it was him who died, but looking back, I'm more angry about his death than Johnny's.

Edited by DOUGL4S1
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My problem with Johnny's death isn't the action itself, but just how much it shat over TLAD's story.

 

At the end of Johhny's story, it was clear that he was over Ashley already. During their last conversation, Johnny says "you can die on your own from now on", which I think was acceptable. Jim (it was him, right?) died because Johnny and the Lost got involved with Ray Boccino... all thanks to Ashley. In a way, the Lost chapter in Alderney fell because of Ashley, so the idea of Johnny choosing his brothers over some junkie gave some interesting closure.

 

But the problem doesn't end here.

 

Johhny's death in GTAV was dumb because it was used only for shock value, to showcase how badass and perfect Trevor is. "oh, you see, kids? he wiped the guys from TLAD and made them his bitches... so cool!!!". That's my problem: in order to highlight Trevor they completely screwed the character of Johhny as a whole, like what the hell?

 

And as the game continued, it was more and more frustrating, because we have the Triads appearing out of f*cking nowhere and they become Trevor's final enemy. Franklin had Stretch and Michael had Haines... so obviously Ending C felt out of place because Trevor says "oh, yeah, let's kill that chinese I don't even know". At least for Stretch and Haines there was a reason to get after them. My point is that the Lost should have been Trevor's final enemy and their main antagonists.

 

They could even keep Johnny's addiction to justify his weakness, but still being dangerous, thus making his death more justified.

 

Like Trevor maybe kills Terry or Clay and Johnny goes after him. That would fit since Franklin was using his bike, so it could have been a final chase of Franklin having to chase Johhny and ending in a big fight with the Lost. Even if I don't like it, it would have been more satisfying because at least one enemy would have put Trevor in danger and be an actual threat. So far every enemy of Trevor was a joke: Ortega, the O'Neils, the Triads, Madrazo... all because Trevor had to be the ultimate badass and never be in danger.

 

(Ending C sucked a lot because of how anticlimatic was the death of the three bad guys. No fight with Haines and FIB crooked agents, no fight with Stretch and the Ballas, and no fight with random chinese and the Cheng family... ugh...)

Edited by Mayochiki
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VictorVance1239

I understand Johnnys reasons for turning to drugs. I mean he was a real badass but he was also human and that human side of him must have got to him after having to kill someone he looked up to for so long (Billy) along with many others he once called brother, then the bike gang that he cared so much about had to disband. A bike gang that he probably put so much heart and soul into wanting to be the best it could possibly be gone just like that. (that is until it resurfaced in v without much of an explanation).

 

but anyway all of this would depress almost anybody. With that said I think Rockstar still could have handled it better. They should have at least made the fight playable and a challenge that would give the player an award for completing it. Having people who liked the character having to just sit through that via cutscene was just ridiculous.

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Brian Grey

Yeah they should kill off a few like we did with Rocco Pelossi, finally getting to kill off any annoying character that survived their first game.

 

Also it could be considered revenge on any character that has wronged or killed a popular character from a previous game.

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Lemoyne outlaw

I don't mind character deaths. I am always happy to see old characters again. at first johnnys death upset me. but now im over it. although I do agree that he should have been seen more than just his one appearance. but we forget gta is a crime game. not all the deaths are gonna be glorious badass deaths. I look at the walking dead as a good example. I read the walking dead comics all the time. its set in the zombie apocalypse. some deaths are badass and some are drawn out like the most recent death if anybody knows who im talking about. some come very unexpectedly and out of nowhere. like one of my favorite comic characters Abraham. he was such a badass funny character. his death upset me just like im sure many johnny k fans. he died by a arrow form dwights crossbow. it was unexpected and shocking like johnnys. ironically enough the person who killed him is one of my favorite characters in the comic. he redeemed himself. just like I love trevor even though he killed a character I liked.

 

all im saying is gta is a crime game and people are gonna die. while some deaths are more sad than others and people wont always like them I expect them. every time a new walking dead issue comes out I read it knowing that my favorite characters might die. the most recent death made a lot of people mad and sad. it was a main character. this character has been in the series since issue 2. a long time favorite. just like how johnny was well loved and he was in an older gta. anyway my point is In fiction with violence and killing I always expect main characters to die. its what happens. gta is about crime and killing. trevor is a psychopath. he isint the type of guy who would fight johnny fair. so if niko dies in gta next I would be a little sad. but I would get over it. im used to characters dying. while it sucks for them to die and even more when its one of your favorites. Its gonna happen whether you like it or not.

 

sorry for going off topic but I was trying to make an example. I hope some people knew what I was talking about.

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Piggsy pls

I like stories killing old characters where it advances the story itself. I don't mind Johnny K dying, but I will say my only issue with it is that it doesn't lead up to anything. It just happens. Trevor's war with the Lost, like so many other subplots in the game, is completely forgotten about once he goes to LS and gets involved with the FIB nonsense. They should've been his main antagonists. Terry and Clay's deaths, I actually like because they died the same way Jim, Jason, and many other Lost brothers went out.

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LOL you guys are sensitive. I don't mind main characters dying. It's just a vidya gaem!!! Yeah it made you felt like you wasted your time 100%ing The Lost and Damned, but it's better than pulling off the scene in the beginning of Vice City where it's like "Vic dies in the beginning" then 6 years later "Oh you play as Vic in Vice City Stories" but what's the point if he we know he's dead!

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but it's better than pulling off the scene in the beginning of Vice City where it's like "Vic dies in the beginning"

Not one bit. Vic Vance's death was far less bullsh*t, and far less humiliating.

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but it's better than pulling off the scene in the beginning of Vice City where it's like "Vic dies in the beginning"

Not one bit. Vic Vance's death was far less bullsh*t, and far less humiliating.

 

Both of them were unarmed and were caught off-guard (but Vic was caught more offguard 'cause I'd be ready to fight or run near Trevor if I knew him for more than an hour), but Trevor attacked him with his fists and boots, so if Johnny was strong enough (or as he was in TLaD) he could have a chance at fighting Trevor. Vic was against a group of people with automatic guns, so in a way, Vic's death was worse than Johnny's,

Edited by DOUGL4S1
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but it's better than pulling off the scene in the beginning of Vice City where it's like "Vic dies in the beginning"

Not one bit. Vic Vance's death was far less bullsh*t, and far less humiliating.

 

Yeah but as a completionist and serious OCD issues at the time, I felt insulted that I have to waste my time playing as a character that we already know is dead. At least with Johnny we didn't know until the next game. It's amusing to read people getting attached to a video game character. I didn't like doing the mission Fresh Meat, but I let that slide haha! I always think the motivation of that mission was that Franklin is just mad at the Chinese because they added MSG to his Cluckin Bell meal.

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Naughtius Maximus

 

 

but it's better than pulling off the scene in the beginning of Vice City where it's like "Vic dies in the beginning"

Not one bit. Vic Vance's death was far less bullsh*t, and far less humiliating.

 

Yeah but as a completionist and serious OCD issues at the time, I felt insulted that I have to waste my time playing as a character that we already know is dead.

I don't quite agree with you. In Vice City Stories, we were supposed to see the event that lead up to Vic's eventual death, but I'm not happy with what the game serves us on the plate. The only hint on why Vic was killed in VC was at the end of the game when Lance mentiones that he skimmed some (of Diaz's) coke which he plans to sell to make a side profit. At the big finale of VCS, Vic does a huge favor for Diaz by taking out Mendez Brothers, his biggest competitors in the drug business. I wish there would be a couple of missions after that, constructing Diaz as an untouchable antagonist, and this way would shine more light on why the deal in the beginning of VC went sideways.

 

I won't mess with you guys. Vic Vance is one of my favourite protagonists. However, you can only throw up theories on the reason why Vic is so different in his latest appearance from what we have seen in his own prequel spin-off. The death of Louise made him characteristically unstable, he went to despair after losing the woman he loves and being convinced that his brother and 50-50 business partner is a complete idiot etc... Rockstar had the total chance of constructing their most awesome anti-hero ever, but they didn't think much about it, and trashed that potential all together. Vice City Stories is a magnificient game (my favourite GTA game following GTA IV and its episodes) and it has a dynamic story that keeps the player awake, but R* could have done a lot better when Vic is the concern.

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Mister Pink

When GTA V was just GTA Next, I actually made a topic about killing an old protag. I thought it would be a great idea and still do. I don't have any sentimental attachments to Johnny or anything but just seeing him getting stomped out in a few seconds on the side of a road was cheap and lame. Killing a previous protag should have been a big deal and it should have been done by the player, not by (for the moment) an NPC or in a cutscene. Such wasted opportunity.

 

If I was going to kill Johnny for GTA V, you can bet it wouldn't be in broad daylight by Trevor and taken so lightly, like a whole MC coming after your ass is no thing. I get it, Trevor is sooo crazy. He's mental and edgy! I would have like to have seen a more teased out scenario where you have time to think that and know you're going to kill a previous protag but int he context of the game, it makes sense, it's the right thing to do, so you can feel bad about killing Johnny but his death is rational as in.. it was him or you. Or you found out he was a rat or relapsed and Johhny was ordered to be whacked by the Lost as he's a liability and is bringing heat down on the organization. You (as an outsider to The Lost) must perform the hit on Johnny. You'll feel bad but you are in control, as, you know the GAMER in this situation and it's a unanimous decision from The Lost, his own people that he must go. That for me would make for more cinematic and dramatic game-play.. and you know, having control in the situation, doing the actual act. God forbid you pick up a video game to actually be able to control characters. It could have been a first hit for Franklin to prove his loyalty to Trevor and Michael and that's he's not some undercover.

 

OR... just watch an old protag get stomped on the head. Seemed like such wasted opportunity.

 

@Loosestring: Yeah man. Bodie was a true gangster. He knew he was a pawn in the game and that he may never become king but kept going on. That was a great example of killing off a character we're somewhat attached to.

Edited by Mister Pink
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slimeball supreme

One of the things which has really puzzled me about GTA V is the fan reaction to the death of Johnny.

tfw asking for trouble

 

anyway i hope they nuke liberty city in the next game just to piss more people off. literally just for no reason, the new protagonist (a badass female corrupt cop) is flying a bomber plane and just f*ckign drops a nuke and kills everyone. there are no survivors and nobody cares. i personally would like to see more threads where a bunch of people completely misunderstand the motivation behind something again, except this time don't even have motivation. just do it and have no character acknowledge it

 

meanwhile the three protagonists from the past game have no reprecussions for their actions and become successful billionaires. the bad guys will not be punished, there is no hope in the world, nothing matters

Edited by Mr. Fartenhate
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Legomanarthur

I don't mind seeing old characters dying, as long as it makes sense within the storyline and how the situation they are in fit their character, I can even enjoy it if it is done that way.

As for Johnny K, when you finish TLaD you know for sure that he won't be seeing Ashley again, he didn't do drugs either, he seemed to be in control of his future with or without the Lost, of course things can change in five years, but this was a little bit too much, it's like they didn't even know who Johnny really was and that he would serve as a nice example to show how much Trevor is tough, I wish we would've gotten more explanations about his life after 2008 rather than just one quick conversation between two Lost members, but it's not even the worst part for me. After that Trevor goes on by killing Terry and Clay who don't even put up a fight, how can this be taken seriously? In TLaD they're badass motherf*ckers, in V they run like cowards, I don't understand that, to me it felt like Rockstar quickly thought about putting random characters from IV into the game without thinking about who they are and what they are capable of when pissed off, actually their death is the one that is bugging me the most out of the entire game.

 

But other characters such as Al Di Napoli or the U.L. Paper guy, I don't really mind, even though it felt a little bit forced (why was he even here in the first place?), but I can see why Rockstar decided to kill him off, even though he can survive the gunfight, but I guess his death is officially canon.

The only one I wish they would've kept alive is Rocco, out of all I wanted to see him getting killed by Luis in Vice City after all those years, it would've been satisfying.

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Shadowfennekin

I'm fine with it. Just do it in the right way.

Just don't have it be Trevor or Michael..... they can already die in the non-canon endings, seeing them die AGAIN would be f*cking stupid.

Let Niko and Roman live their lives too. Those two have been through enough.

If any main character has to die, let it be Luis. He sucked. I don't give a sh*t about him or his cast of characters apart from Yusuf Ymir

 

And killing Lester would bring some joy to us Online players. f*ck you, LJT!

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Shade04rek

I don't care if a past character dies, but before that use them in the story a good bit at least. Johnny k was nothing but a waste, dont care if he has to die, but do something with it, make a mission out of it at the very least. Johnny k had "boss fight" potential.

 

 

 

If they're assholes like Rocco then yes

Even Rocco was underutilized, he showed up for no reason, was anticlimactic in the end, and could have been anyone playing his antagonistic role. He can be killed, but needed some more buildup, story, and bigger steaks. Edited by Shade04rek
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You know, I kind of had a thought about this whole idea.

People are saying that they want the characters to go out well, instead of being offed for shock value, and I can appreciate that. So, what if, if they plan to kill a main protagonist again - they actually switch control of the player to the old character? They use save files to detect what clothes they were wearing, what pictures they took on their phone, and pit you against the new character.

But it's a battle you can't ever actually win, as your aim is off, you don't have enough ammo, you're slower, and can't keep up with the new guy.

 

Imagine what they could do with that. Especially with the ambient music they've started to use in the series.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Excalibur Voltaire

I just want tanisha jackson, kyle chavis, michelle/karen daniel, fabien larouche die in violent way in next gta

Edited by CGFforLife
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