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povke

Why Is Ryder Never Mentioned since The Green Sabre?

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povke

- During The Green Sabre, CJ doesn't even say anything about Ryder, even to Sweet. All he's saying is about the Big Smoke's betrayal.

- During the storyline, CJ also doesn't say anything about Ryder, only about Big Smoke. The only time when CJ says about Ryder is during Yay-Ka-Boom-Boom that Ryder was his homie and he killed him.

- During Pier 69, when CJ kills Ryder, the dialogue between them is very primitive. CJ talks to him like a very minor character.

- Despite all of these facts, even Sweet, after he gets released from prison, never asks anything about Ryder like he even didn't exist.

 

So why is Ryder never mentioned since The Green Sabre?

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gts.

Hey, very clever observations. Never thought about it. Since all of that is true, the question is: Was Ryder added late to the development of the game? And due that, R* did rushed modifications to the game script? A good example is the 'Pier 69' mission dialogue, very dull.

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lil weasel

I would think because Carl has no respect for the drug using, whiny, little creep.

Knowing Ryder is a follower, and of no value.

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Steezy.

Because Ryder wasn't meant to betray the Grove. R* added him in late into development, for whatever reason.

 

However in game, one could say that CJ just had absolutely no respect for Ryder despite being his childhood friend, and didn't give a sh*t about him or whether he live or dies because he's a busta.

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HalfOfAKebab

Because Ryder wasn't meant to betray the Grove. R* added him in late into development, for whatever reason.

Source?

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Son of Zeus

 

Because Ryder wasn't meant to betray the Grove. R* added him in late into development, for whatever reason.

Source?

I too remember reading that ....not sure where. Ryder was initially meant to accompany you to San Fierro instead of Cesar.

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Rose.Quartz

 

 

Because Ryder wasn't meant to betray the Grove. R* added him in late into development, for whatever reason.

Source?

I too remember reading that ....not sure where. Ryder was initially meant to accompany you to San Fierro instead of Cesar.

 

damn i wish that would've happened instead. i saw somewhere that it would be nice to have the guy that's an a-hole to you be the one who stays with you till the end while the one who was extremely nice be the one who betrays you and the gang or something like that. sad that Rockstar decided to throw away his character.

Edited by Rose.Quartz

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Vanzant

I would think because Carl has no respect for the drug using, whiny, little creep.

Knowing Ryder is a follower, and of no value.

 

That's the best answer. They don't get along well in story and as such CJ wasn't surprised of the betrayal nor seems to be inclined to reflect upon the outcome.

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AzelfandQuilava

 

I would think because Carl has no respect for the drug using, whiny, little creep.

Knowing Ryder is a follower, and of no value.

 

That's the best answer. They don't get along well in story and as such CJ wasn't surprised of the betrayal nor seems to be inclined to reflect upon the outcome.

 

The way their friendship is portrayed, it's more like they're just sarcastic assholes to each other (we all have that one friend).

 

Keep in mind, Ryder's lit half the time during the Los Santos arc (in other words, he isn't thinking straight), and judging by his remarks he was hurt by CJ leaving for Liberty City like Sweet was. So with that in mind, his dickishness is kinda justified.

 

Regardless, it doesn't make the betrayal any better written.

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watersgta3

Honestly, I feel that people really exaggerate CJ and Ryder's relationship and make them seem like they were enemies from the start. Seriously, so just because Ryder made rude remarks towards CJ, it automatically means that he wasn't CJ's friend? You people act like there hasn't been anyone who throw occasional insults at their friends before. Look at Brian and Stewie from Family Guy, or Sonic and Knuckles from the Sonic the Hedgehog series. CJ and Ryder's relationship is pretty similar to the aforementioned friendships. I see no disparities whatsoever. In other words, they're Vitriolic Best Buds (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VitriolicBestBuds). Also, people really exaggerate when one of them even claimed that CJ was probably bullied by Ryder back then. Okay, so if Ryder really bullied CJ back in childhood, why would CJ be so quick to ask for homie love from him at the start of the game? Why would Sweet even allow someone who bullies his younger brother in his gang to begin with? No, being close friends wouldn't be an excuse since Sweet seems to be as the guy who wouldn't hang around anyone who bullies his brother. Let's not forget to mention the fact that CJ's remorse for killing Ryder was genuine, and the fact that they had to add in that arbitrary dialogue of Ryder trying to bang Kendl was just poor writing to make us forget all about it. From what I've seen in the story, Ryder's blunt attitude towards CJ most likely stems from the fact that like Sweet, he too is upset of CJ running away to LC, which is why he wasn't that happy to see him back. That actually makes Ryder's betrayal poorly written when you look back on the story.

 

Which brings me to the answer to the question asked way up above. Well there are many reasons why Ryder is never mentioned up until Photo Opportunity. R* either wasn't planning to make Ryder a traitor since unlike Smoke, there was never really any actual hints of his betrayal, but had no further use for his character, so they decided to just simply implement it, or Ryder wasn't originally going to become a main character during the makings of the game, but once the writers saw the appeal of the character, they made him one of the main members of the Grove Street Family gang members and didn't exactly write his motives very well since he was probably an afterthought character. Yeah I'm just going to stick to the first choice considering that R* is pretty notorious for indolent writing.

Edited by watersgta3

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Femme Fatale

CJ did express remorse for killing him.

"f*cking Ryder, man. That was my homie, and I killed him!"

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gts.

 

I would think because Carl has no respect for the drug using, whiny, little creep.

Knowing Ryder is a follower, and of no value.

That's the best answer. They don't get along well in story and as such CJ wasn't surprised of the betrayal nor seems to be inclined to reflect upon the outcome.

Also, Ryder always was bothering CJ. You can see it in the first mission: "You're just a liability CJ. Why you bother coming back?". And through all storyline in Los Santos.

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Evil empire

I suppose Ryder wasn't supposed to betray CJ in the initial scenario.

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D9fred95

Because Smoke was always the helpful cool guy. Ryder was a cool guy too but lesser somewhat due to the drugs he always took and the "it's all about me" attitude he has. It's more of a shock that a fun big guy like Smoke would switch sides.

Edited by D9fred95

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watersgta3

 

 

I would think because Carl has no respect for the drug using, whiny, little creep.

Knowing Ryder is a follower, and of no value.

 

That's the best answer. They don't get along well in story and as such CJ wasn't surprised of the betrayal nor seems to be inclined to reflect upon the outcome.

 

The way their friendship is portrayed, it's more like they're just sarcastic assholes to each other (we all have that one friend).

 

Keep in mind, Ryder's lit half the time during the Los Santos arc (in other words, he isn't thinking straight), and judging by his remarks he was hurt by CJ leaving for Liberty City like Sweet was. So with that in mind, his dickishness is kinda justified.

 

Regardless, it doesn't make the betrayal any better written.

 

Yeah. That's how I see it as well. I mean there have been plenty of friends who poke fun at each other. And to be honest, Ryder's betrayal was more of an afterthought if anything.

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AzelfandQuilava

. Well there are many reasons why Ryder is never mentioned up until Photo Opportunity. R* either wasn't planning to make Ryder a traitor since unlike Smoke, there was never really any actual hints of his betrayal, but had no further use for his character, so they decided to just simply implement it, or Ryder wasn't originally going to become a main character during the makings of the game, but once the writers saw the appeal of the character, they made him one of the main members of the Grove Street Family gang members and didn't exactly write his motives very well since he was probably an afterthought character. Yeah I'm just going to stick to the first choice considering that R* is pretty notorious for indolent writing.

 

That second thought's an interesting take on it. Since apparently R* were planning to have three playable characters in San Andreas originally.

 

I imagine it would have been CJ, Cesar and Ryder as the trio, had the concept seen the light of day.

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Rose.Quartz

 

. Well there are many reasons why Ryder is never mentioned up until Photo Opportunity. R* either wasn't planning to make Ryder a traitor since unlike Smoke, there was never really any actual hints of his betrayal, but had no further use for his character, so they decided to just simply implement it, or Ryder wasn't originally going to become a main character during the makings of the game, but once the writers saw the appeal of the character, they made him one of the main members of the Grove Street Family gang members and didn't exactly write his motives very well since he was probably an afterthought character. Yeah I'm just going to stick to the first choice considering that R* is pretty notorious for indolent writing.

 

That second thought's an interesting take on it. Since apparently R* were planning to have three playable characters in San Andreas originally.

 

I imagine it would have been CJ, Cesar and Ryder as the trio, had the concept seen the light of day.

jeez, i would have liked that..

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vMinty

Replayed the game myself a couple of days ago, and only now, after 13 years, I've managed to notice that very thing :x

 

R* either wasn't planning to make Ryder a traitor since unlike Smoke, there was never really any actual hints of his betrayal, but had no further use for his character, so they decided to just simply implement it, or Ryder wasn't originally going to become a main character during the makings of the game, but once the writers saw the appeal of the character, they made him one of the main members of the Grove Street Family gang members and didn't exactly write his motives very well since he was probably an afterthought character. Yeah I'm just going to stick to the first choice considering that R* is pretty notorious for indolent writing.

 

Interesting point, it seems believable to me.

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Steezy.

 

Because Ryder wasn't meant to betray the Grove. R* added him in late into development, for whatever reason.

Source?

Damn, I forgot where but I read about it a while ago. But it's kinda obvious when you replay the game. On the mission 'The Green Sabre', CJ never mentions Ryder or his involvement with CRASH. He told Sweet that Big Smoke sold them out,and only Big Smoke. In the cutscene after where he gets sent to Whetstone,nobody mentions Ryder either,not even Tenpenny. It's always Big Smoke this,and Big Smoke that, but never Ryder. You'd think that they would talk about him more,seeing as how he was a childhood friend of CJ and an important OG of the Families (he brought them tons of weapons). Ryder is only mentioned later on (This must be when R* decided to include him as a bad guy) during the mission where you take pictures of him and the Loco Syndicate,and the mission where you kill him.

 

Personally, I really liked Ryder and his interactions with CJ in the beginning arc. Sure he was an asshole,but he was still one of the homies. Not all friends have to be nice. My closest friend,for instance,is kinda like him,an asshole. But we're still pretty close nonetheless. One mission where you can tell they were close is in 'Robbing Uncle Sam', where he and CJ talk about why he dropped out of highschool. They laughed and reminisced on when he fought a teacher for wearing Ballas colors. Another mission is 'Drive By', when Ryder is telling Sweet that he can drive "as good as CJ" indicating that half the time he doesn't really mean his insults. It's not much,I know, but if they weren't friends then they wouldn't talk like that. I think when CJ ran away after Brian's death,that kinda made everyone on Grove Street lose respect for him, which also explains why Sweet is so hard on him too. The only Grove Street member who isn't mad at CJ is Big Smoke,who is actually a traitor to the gang and would probably prefer if CJ had stayed in Liberty City.

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DK06282000

If anything, Ryder shouldn't have even been in the game at all. The game would've been much better if he wasn't included in the game at all. It should've just been CJ, Sweet, and Big Smoke. Ryder ruined the first half of the story.

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Colonel _Cortez

If anything, Ryder shouldn't have even been in the game at all. The game would've been much better if he wasn't included in the game at all. It should've just been CJ, Sweet, and Big Smoke. Ryder ruined the first half of the story.

I have to disagree. Ryder added lots of fun to the game since he was indeed a entertaining character with hilarious quotes.

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SMACKED!

Ryder's latter participation seems more likely reflected on the beginning of the game when he was for example calling him a liability than the whole experience they been trough from kids, like, once CJ witness Ryder's sellout he acts like if there was a Balla rather than his own self.

 

I'm pretty sure this was considered at later stages of development, the way everything is carried out.

 

And from my perspective, Ryder could have been put to do time along Sweet than get murdered by CJ, maybe a life sentance, a couple of calls during the plot and then never seen again.

Or being released from jail along Sweet.

Or simply get killed at The Green Sabre.

 

Such a waste of a character...

Edited by SMACKED!

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Blight77

Yep, just like some poster above said, Ryder wasn't supposed to be an antagonist and only Big Smoke who'll betray the GSF

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GTA San Andreas Missio

I think R* added Ryder in the Beta Version's Betrayal but not in Original Ones... And They totally forgot to Remove his body from Mission Green Sabre of Original Version.. and

 

  • It seems that Ryder wasn't originally planned to be present in this mission. According to the mission's dialogue, CJ only notices Smoke and the C.R.A.S.H. officers pulling off the Green Sabre out of its garage, leaving Ryder unnoticed (despite his clear presence on the scene). CJ didn't even mention Ryder's name while revealing Smoke's betrayal to Sweet during the Mulholland Intersection shootout nor even Cesar mentioned his name in King in Exile's cutscene, hinting that both CJ and Cesar weren't supposed to see Ryder in The Green Sabre mission. The only first time the duo actually notice Ryder's betrayal is during the mission Photo Opportunity, where CJ took a photo of Ryder after he was seen parking his Picador next to the Angel Pine Cluckin' Bell with a Balla member waiting on the passenger seat, much to CJ's surprise.
Edited by GTA San Andreas Missio

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ult1matum

Like was said above Ryder became traitor or even was added to the game quite late so we got this lack of mentions. This screenshot shows Ryder before he was changed or even another character who was replaced by him

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MARKUS.

Maybe MC Eight refused to keep going with San Andreas for couple of reasons so they needed to kill Ryder somehow

 

- He has a lot of things to do (concerts, CDs, other stuff). VERY LIKELY

- He wasnt agree with the paying of his royalties as it happened with Ray Liotta (Tommy Vercetti) and Michael Hollick (Niko Bellic)

 

As you can hear. On Pier 69 Ryder just used recicled lines from Robbing Uncle Sam and Home invasion (Cant stop me; I am a motherf*cking genius)

 

Maybe his concept was very different back in the day maybe his role was going to be the one that Cesar had or he would be part of a trio (CJ, Cesar and Ryder) doing a pre-concept of what we know today of GTA V. R* said themself that they did try to insert this concept back in the day in San Andreas, even including animals. Can you even imagine doing some missions switching to Ryder and use his ninja style? lol. Even, when R* could drop this feature for technical issues Ryder could still be a great support for CJ on his oddysey to rescue Sweet and kill Big Smoke as Cesar was

 

Its just a shame to see the ending of a potentially great character like that... Ryder could be a real likely character and I think one of the most funniest and loved allies of the GTA Saga that could keep giving us so much great lines as Ryder Nigga, Ninja Style and Its like World War VIII

 

Maybe who knows... maybe even the character of Lamar on GTA V could be based on how Ryder was supposed to be and how was going to be his relationship with CJ (as we saw with Franklin, always talking about street loyalty and the hood)

 

 

Edited by Markhosdangerous

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SMACKED!

People assuming that Ryder was never meant to betray the Grove since he's never mentioned prior the events of The Green Sabre.

 

What if he wasn't meant to appear at The Green Sabre at all? And his betrayal was revealed later in the game, at some point between Photo Opportunity and Yay Ka-Boom-Boom?

 

There's a load of audios covering up that CJ was shocked when realizing that Ryder was rolling with the enemies, most of them coming from Photo Opportunity.

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MARKUS.

SMACKED! the lines from those missions are not a big issue let me tell you why...

As you can hear. On Pier 69 Ryder just used recicled lines from Robbing Uncle Sam and Home invasion (Cant stop me; I am a motherf*cking genius)


The real deal is not about CJ or Cesar lines but Ryder's lines as I pointed out. Even the audios of those missions (and the cinematic of Yay Ka Boom Boom) could be recorded in a further or last development phase because

- Ryder (as I said before) just uses recycled lines on Pier 69. He doesn't speak any new lines after Reuniting the Families
- Ryder's betrayal and himself is not ever mentioned in the storyline apart from Photo Opportunity and Yay Ka-Boom-Boom

During the last phase of development they tend to do retouches (things of BETA that doesn't make it on final version, and so on)... so why could not R* told the actors of CJ and Cesar to record some lines for Photo Opportunity (something really easy to do) and the short part of the cinematic Yay Ka-Boom-Boom (when CJ and Cesar talks about him) to "justify" Ryder's death somewhere?

EDIT: a clue of why R* didnt plan of killing Ryder at first point is this line of T-Bone on Pier 69 saying: "you should never trusted Jizzy". Maybe the whole concept of the Loco Syndicate was different before, not involving Ryder

That line is at this video (min 1:23), take a look

 

 

We will never know exactly what happened, but it's fun to theorize

Edited by Markhosdangerous

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lil weasel

As in many stories, not every character has to appear in every scene.

Be it a novel, a play, or a movie, once the character has finished its part it is forgotten.

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CoolMods

Wish Ryder & Smoke never betray the groove, i always liked them, i wish just that Tenpenny & Pulaski were good cops and instead of Ryder & Smoke, they were good with grove, and betray. Ryder shoulda have survived, and smoke too. He is a pretty funny guy

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