The Deuce - HBO - David Simon

[Mister Pink]

From the creator of one of TV's finest shows, The Wire comes The Deuce. Set in 1970's New York around the pimps, prostitution and porn scene of Times Square. It's staring Maggie Gyllenhaal, Method Man and James Franco and a bunch of other actors from The Wire including..

 

Method Man who played Cheese in The Wire.. Can't wait to see him this. Also the actor that plays Chris Partlow in The Wire, Gbenga Akinnagbe returns as well as Michael Kostroff who played The Barksdale Organization's lawyer.

 

It also has Michael Rispoli (Jackie Aprille, The Sopranos).

 

Anyway, that doesn't matter if you don't know those actors, it's just a nice nugget of info for those who watched The Wire. Looking forward to this show. I love period pieces and 70's New York was grimey and full of seedy crime to a backdrop of wonderful music.

 

Knowing David Simon and George Pelacanos it will have very multi-dimensional characters, hopefully a rich and layered story like The Wire with big doses of social commentary.

 

Premise..

 

 

In New York, the number of those with HIV is rising and the violence of the drug epidemic is worsening. Twin brothers, Vincent and Frankie Martino, become fronts for the Mob while operating out of Times Square, which is also the home of "Candy", a sex worker who turns to the now legal emerging porn industry.

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Mister Pink

[The Time Ranger]

I'l be looking forward to this, The Wire was such a great show so something new by the creator is exciting news.

[Mister Pink]

Yeah I kind of feel ashamed I haven't watched his other HBO shows but this one speaks to me in so many ways. I love crime shows, New York and period pieces. Hopefully this will work out. We know there will be a huge human element to this. We know David Simon is anti "war on drugs" and maybe we'll see case for that or something a little deeper socially with a the backdrop of 70's New York.

[feckyerlife]

Is this supposed to be based off a true story? or this like how boardwalk empire was? I noticed that the mafia characters were all real life mafia guys.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2pXEzIQnUs

Edited June 1, 2017 by feckyerlife

[Mister Pink]

I'm not sure. If it's either way I'm happy. I love how they handled Boardwalk, it was good knowing that Nucky Thompson was based off Nucky Johnson. I don't mind small changes or even big ones, if the writing is good.

 

That trailer looks amazing. Can't wait!

[Spaghetti Cat]

Looks interesting that's for sure

 

[Mister Pink]

I'm so happy to see Method Man on the screen again. He looks mental as a 70's pimp!

 

Edited June 11, 2017 by Mister Pink

[Naughtius Maximus]

This show will definitely kick ass... I'll tell you that much. It's so simple: 70's New York & Sex Trade Scene + David Simon. Literally, just shut up and take my money. The Wire has been my favourite TV show with dramatic crime vibe, but I have a feeling that The Deuce may even top The Wire if it's given time and opportunity.

 

I was pretty shocked to find out how much of an efficient actor Method Man is, when I saw him play Cheese on The Wire. I can definitely see him in the shoes of a snotty, violent pimp. Yeah, it's also nice to know that Michael Rispoli is on the team. His role in The Sopranos was short yet crucial; the scenes with Aprile Sr. were always a good watch.

[Mister Pink]

This show will definitely kick ass... I'll tell you that much. It's so simple: 70's New York & Sex Trade Scene + David Simon. Literally, just shut up and take my money. The Wire has been my favourite TV show with dramatic crime vibe, but I have a feeling that The Deuce may even top The Wire if it's given time and opportunity.

 

I was pretty shocked to find out how much of an efficient actor Method Man is, when I saw him play Cheese on The Wire. I can definitely see him in the shoes of a snotty, violent pimp. Yeah, it's also nice to know that Michael Rispoli is on the team. His role in The Sopranos was short yet crucial; the scenes with Aprile Sr. were always a good watch.

 

I couldn't agree more

 

I didn't get to see Treme or Simon's other work aside from The House I live In documentary. I guess post hurricane Katrina New Orleans didn't make me rush out to see Treme, even though there was a great chance it was going to be good, it didn't have the same appeal as the crime themes of The Wire for me. But now I think I'll watch it. It's got a 98% on Rotten Tomatoes.

 

The Deuce on the other hand is going to a not only a city that I adore very much but back to time and crimes element that sparks my interest. It's like this seedy underworld that was conducted out in the open in Times Sqaure.

 

No doubt Simon wont be looking back at the 70's with rose-tints. I'm sure he'll inject that social realism in there but it will be interesting to see how he handles this as he has hindsight on his side. The Wire was very current and still is, what with corruption in the legal, political and police system as a well as the good souls in it too, the war on drugs and the prison industrial complex but The Deuce hopefully will give us something more.

 

I hope to see his strong female characters that he's respectfully great at writing also looking forward to seeing the good characters that rise up in bad situations and the morally ambiguous. characters. The characters that keep you guessing the person's motives. I just hope it's got the depth and complexity of The Wire. Maybe it wont be in the first season as I think The Wire is a bit much for people to digest at first, hence it's success after the original airing. And people were still getting their head around watching long-form movie-like TV shows , slowly but surely thanks to The Sopranos

 

The mainstream TV viewer is now more used to long-form TV thanks for Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad so maybe something deeper and more complex like Simon's work will be accepted better than The Wire when it first aired.

 

We'll see. Haven't been excited for as show like this since Boardwalk Empire.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Mister Pink

[Naughtius Maximus]

 

 

I didn't get to see Treme or Simon's other work aside from The House I live In documentary. I guess post hurricane Katrina New Orleans didn't make me rush out to see Treme, even though there was a great chance it was going to be good, it didn't have the same appeal as the crime themes of The Wire for me. But now I think I'll watch it. It's got a 98% on Rotten Tomatoes.

I began watching Treme last summer after I had finished my first watch of The Sopranos. I haven't completely finished it, I guess I stopped watching around the fourth or fifth episode of the third season (with the show being four seasons at total, and the last season consists of only five episodes. I guess big-shot TV people forced them to rush it). I'm more of a crime-vibe thrilled guy as much as you are, and that was the reason why I started watching The Wire at the first place. To admit, The Wire got enlightened me to a huge extent, teaching me your typical crime drama isn't just about exciting criminal stuff, and there is a space for social background and honest satire, and harsh "in-your-face" lessons about human psychology (The Sopranos). Back to Treme, it's a nice, interesting show with lot of social examination and jazz & blue thrown in. Of course, it has a slower pace even than The Wire, but let's just give it to the show's nature: I mean, when you watch The Wire, you know eventually weapons will be drawn and moms n' pops will bust a cap on each others' backs because the most emphasized theme of the show is crime. Furthermore, Treme is a nice example of David Simon's capacity, relying not only volatile organized crime to make satirical touches on a bad society, he can also do that with dry-bleeding blues musicians. I couldn't finish the series because I had no time, but I'd strongly suggest anyone watch it especially if you want to witness how much of an investigative and experimental genius Simon is.

 

 

 

Maybe it wont be in the first season as I think The Wire is a bit much for people to digest at first, hence it's success after the original airing. And people were still getting their head around watching long-form movie-like TV shows , slowly but surely thanks to The Sopranos.

 

 

I think this is a major problem with the newer, younger generations of TV audience: they're lazy, and they don't want to put too much effort... despite the fact that their part of the deal is easy. However, I obviously agree with that the TV shows like Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones or The Walking Dead have kinda warmed them up for more sophisticated, and deeper concepts in general. However, some people act like they got their thumbs jammed up their asses after seeing such shows, and they can't be openly experimental because they've become so damned perfectionist. But please don't get me wrong, I have no hostile feelings for such shows and as to say, I'm a huge fan of Breaking Bad, and I was kind of the main reason why many of my friends started watching that show. And to give an example, there is a friend of mine who is actually a "movie guy", but decided to give BB a shot, and liked it very much. Then, he came around and asked me for more, and I recommended The Wire, and also OZ. He found it really difficult to follow first. This is natural, as The Wire takes a lot of time to build up the main events meanwhile Breaking Bad is more straightforward, fast-paced and kind of action-packed. I told him to be patient, and wait for more. And that's the way of watching TV shows like The Sopranos or The Wire: you've got to wait for the ultimate prize. That's why Season 2 of The Wire is a personal favourite of mine, or Season 3 of The Sopranos is the best IMO although many people dismiss it because of Tony's heavily emphasized home issues and Jackie Aprile Jr. storyline (I like Junior's saga a lot although a lot of people seem to describe it as "utter bullcrap").

 

To cut it short, most of the modern TV audience do not seem to endorse such a method while watching their TV shows, or they are generally fond of more "in-your-face" materials or elements. Hence TV shows like The Wire, The Sopranos, OZ etc. have maintained a cult following in the past, but they're far from being popular nowadays. That's why I'm a bit skeptical about the birth or continuation of such sophisticated TV shows.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Loosestring

[Mister Pink]

.............

 

I think this is a major problem with the newer, younger generations of TV audience: they're lazy, and they don't want to put too much effort... despite the fact that their part of the deal is easy. However, I obviously agree with that the TV shows like Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones or The Walking Dead have kinda warmed them up for more sophisticated, and deeper concepts in general. However, some people act like they got their thumbs jammed up their asses after seeing such shows, and they can't be openly experimental because they've become so damned perfectionist. But please don't get me wrong, I have no hostile feelings for such shows and as to say, I'm a huge fan of Breaking Bad, and I was kind of the main reason why many of my friends started watching that show. And to give an example, there is a friend of mine who is actually a "movie guy", but decided to give BB a shot, and liked it very much. Then, he came around and asked me for more, and I recommended The Wire, and also OZ. He found it really difficult to follow first. This is natural, as The Wire takes a lot of time to build up the main events meanwhile Breaking Bad is more straightforward, fast-paced and kind of action-packed. I told him to be patient, and wait for more. And that's the way of watching TV shows like The Sopranos or The Wire: you've got to wait for the ultimate prize. That's why Season 2 of The Wire is a personal favourite of mine, or Season 3 of The Sopranos is the best IMO although many people dismiss it because of Tony's heavily emphasized home issues and Jackie Aprile Jr. storyline (I like Junior's saga a lot although a lot of people seem to describe it as "utter bullcrap").

 

To cut it short, most of the modern TV audience do not seem to endorse such a method while watching their TV shows, or they are generally fond of more "in-your-face" materials or elements. Hence TV shows like The Wire, The Sopranos, OZ etc. have maintained a cult following in the past, but they're far from being popular nowadays. That's why I'm a bit skeptical about the birth or continuation of such sophisticated TV shows.

 

 

For sure man. While I enjoyed BB too, I kind of resented people comparing it to shows like The Sopranos or The Wire. In the end, the result is entertainment for it's audience and that it does. But one type of show takes a completely different path than other to deliver that entertainment. However, I just don't think the show is as layered or complex or maybe even groundbreaking as a show like The Sopranos or The Wire. The way I described to my friend about BB to further my point was that in BB, you could land on any episode in the middle of a season and pick up what's going on, very fast. You would be pretty lost if you did that with the Sopranos or The Wire or Boardwalk Empire. There's sub-plots, characters and story arcs that develop over so many episodes, that you would really need to be following since to start to get the full rounded picture. It does require a little attention by the viewer but the pay off is much more rewarding that some cliffhanger or cheap plot twist.

 

Funny you mention Season 2 of The Wire being your favourite because it might be mine. But sure The Wire kinds of spoils us. It does raise a bar so high. Watching BB or often times people recommend The Shield as a good alternative to The Wire. People that do that makes me think the whole concept of The Wire went completely over their heads (no offence if you like it) but I don't see the similarities other than it deals with crime. It doesn't posses any of the qualities that make The Wire different from all the other shows.

 

But I agree, I do like BB as much as the next guy but just very aware of what else is out there. There is that hump to get over that the start. That's why on second viewing of Season 1, I really enjoyed it as I wasn't struggling following what was going and when they spoke of other characters not in the room, I knew who they were talking about so I could enjoy it all for what it is.

 

Anyway, after reading your description of Treme, I want to give it a go. Might tide me over until The Deuce.

 

Chris Partlow..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2017 by Mister Pink

[Candy_Licker]

Really pumped for this.

 

And yeah, The Wire is my absolute GOAT show (excluding comedy). My favourite is between season 2 and 3. Loved the dock plot and radical change with the Major Crimes Unit (McNulty on a boat trying to get back at Rawls is hilarious)

 

Season 3 has it all though: the Barksdales trying to bounce back & their ultimate demise, Stanfield emerging as the new power player, the politics stuff, Hamsterday & the hilarious Comstat meetings

[EvolvedWalker]

New trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGomupAJBxo

[Mister Pink]

Nice trailer. Notice "Frank Sobotka" at 0.33 seconds, .

 

Also George Pelecanos in the credits wrote and produced for The Wire. He's a novelist but wrote some of The Wire's episodes from stories David Simon and Ed Burns told him. I didn't realize there another writer took such a pivotal role on The Wire. Glad he's back.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Mister Pink

[EvolvedWalker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7YMlL8x8GE

[Spaghetti Cat]

I really wanted to enjoy this show.

 

Instead of watching my usual Sunday show on HBO, the critically-accepted Ballers starring Dwane "the Rock" Johnson, I caught The Deuce instead. Let me just say right off the bat that the set design, clothing, music, and especially the cars were all top notch and very period specific. Even down to the trash piles in the street, it was like a grungy version of Mad Men. Really good stuff and I got a kick out of it.

 

However...

 

I couldn't make heads-or-tails about what was going on plot-wise. If someone came up and asked, I couldn't tell them what the show was about. It's 1971 New York and it's about prostitution maybe, or pimps, but not really. Then there is a side story that deals with a college student that's totally out of place with the hookers and pimps theme. That's before you get to the main (?) character(s) played by James Franco. This is really confusing because his character also has a twin brother, which we're not initially told about, and it cuts back-and-forth between the two. It took me a bit before I could even tell that it was a different character. I don't know, it was just badly handled IMO.

 

And this is coming from someone who watched The Wire on the premiere date back in 2002. I don't mind a bit of mystery or multiple characters, but the way it's presented here is very confusing and really doesn't lead anywhere at the end of the episode. I know serialization and all that, but there wasn't even any resolution to anything that happens in the Pilot. On the pilot of the Wire, we had a homicide, a detective investigating the case, and a criminal empire that was only hinted at at first. Complex themes, but you could follow the story. Here, it's just a series of events...and that's it.

 

 

There are some bright spots though. Those of you talking about Method Man, he is terrific! Really nails that era-specific pimp. There are two scenes relatively early on that showcase those talents. First one is set in a bus station where Method's character and another pimp are just talking about Nixon and Vietnam. Sets up the characters nicely, if this scene was the whole show I'd be fine with it. Another one comes when the guys are at an outside shoe-shine. I won't spoil anything, but this scene alone was worth the other 90 minutes. Reminded me of the best parts of The Wire. If this scene was the rest of the show I'd give it an A+++.

 

But...I've got some reservations. I'm interested to see the next episode, but it doesn't have me hooked like the Wire did. Hoping the next couple of episodes are a bit tighter.

 

If you liked The Wire, this might be worthwhile to check out. For the general audience I would hold off for a couple of episodes. At least until it's a bit clearer where this is headed and what the overall story is supposed to be.

[Mister Pink]

I finally got around to watching the pilot. I'll make references to characters and story but will try not to spoil anything, although it's hard to spoil a pilot when it's just setting things up.

 

I absolutely loved it. Love the set, the cars, how they made New York and Times Square look how it does and even the twin towers being built at the time. Also, I noticed the thrash on the streets too, it all looks so convincing and real.

 

I had no issues following the plot. I think I was worried about that going in because I read your post first. It's not like we didn't have anything in the first episode. I think it's setting everything up (for I don't know what) pretty nicely. You have the two twins played by Franco. One's a degenerate gambler, the other a struggling to make ends meet in a bar but he has aspirations. Meanwhile the mob is pressing him for cash his gambling brother owes. Reminds me of GTA IV! Then we have all the pimps, we see them recruit, we see how they intimidate and we see the crazy working conditions of the working girls. The barman Franco twin is married to the sister of some wiseguys but is trying to stay away from her and make some business in the struggling bar downtown.

 

@Spaghetti Cat: I'm not sure what why you would advise people to hold off for a bit. I think there's plenty of story there. This is probably going to be 12 episodes. We've met our protag (James Franco) and there's trouble looming in the air with the mob, his personal life and his professional life. We've met the cops, the pimps, the prostitutes. Yes, there is event to point to and go, "that's it, this where this is going." and it's the near the opening scene when we see Franco. Pimps are getting their green, prostitutes are working for the green, gambler is getting in debt, barman is trying get cash and is being pressed by the mafia. To me, this is a pursuit of money in seedy New York in the 1970's. We see this in the opening scene.

 

 

When the barman makes the drop and nearly gets mugged by the two guys with the money. That's the theme, in my opinion. It's the pursuit of the almighty dollar. It's the game like in The Wire except, it's hustlers, pimps, prostitutes.

 

 

Anyway, I would rate the pilot 10/10. They whole look, the mise en scene, the grittiness, the clothes, the cars, the realistic GCI making Times Square in the 70's. The humour, the dialogue, acting and production is phenomenal.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Mister Pink

[The Time Ranger]

I finally got around to watching the pilot. I'll make references to characters and story but will try not to spoil anything, although it's hard to spoil a pilot when it's just setting things up.

 

I absolutely loved it. Love the set, the cars, how they made New York and Times Square look how it does and even the twin towers being built at the time. Also, I noticed the thrash on the streets too, it all looks so convincing and real.

 

Glad you enjoyed it, since we have a similar taste in movies/tv i'm looking forward to watching it more now, I have the first two episodes ready to watch, might start tonight. I didn't realise Maggie Gyllenhaal was in this, she's a great actress. Although I'm not a big fan of actors playing two characters I can look past it since Franco is one of my favourite actors.

[Tokasmoka]

Going to start watching this when the weather gets miserable, it's on the list!

 

1. The Duece

2. Curb...

3. Band of Brothers

4. The Sopranos

5. Ballers

 

In no particular order.

[Mister Pink]

Going to start watching this when the weather gets miserable, it's on the list!

 

1. The Duece

2. Curb...

3. Band of Brothers

4. The Sopranos

5. Ballers

 

In no particular order.

 

I know you said no particular order but The Sopranos.. number 1

 

Super list although I haven't seen Ballers or Band of Brothers but they're supposed to be amazing. I would add Boardwalk Empire and The Wire, if you haven't seen them all ready.

 

@Neon: Yeah buddy, glad you are going to watch it. I would be keen to hear what you think of it. Not to say to much but I wasn't too keen about 1 actor playing two roles but and maybe it's too early to say but I think he's doing a damn fine job. He's very likable so far. And there's great scene with them together. It's done very well.

 

EDIT:

 

Watched episode 2 last night. The conversations between the twins are golden. More story is coming in to play and things get more heated. I'm liking we get to see some 70's mafia guys too.

 

 

Love the scene were the two mob guys and Franco are outside the bar in the crappy part of Manhattan. They're musing whether the area will ever be nice.In hindsight, we know it becomes downtown Manhattan, think it might be Hell's Kitchen. It's prime real estate now but it was a bit of dump. One mafioso says it's like puddle of water.. it's just stays there, the same..and the other mafioso goes.. "yeah it's stagnant"

 

Edited October 7, 2017 by Mister Pink

[SonnyNapoli]

Finished off all four episodes at one strike, can't wait untill the next one is aired.

Appearence of Method Man and Michael Rispoli just made the show, aswell as some of The Wire cast.

Hope it won't get cancelled after season one like Public Morals or Vinyl.

Edited October 7, 2017 by SonnyNapoli

[Mister Pink]

Finished off all four episodes at one strike, can't wait untill the next one is aired.

Appearence of Method Man and Michael Rispoli just made the show, aswell as some of The Wire cast.

Hope it won't get cancelled after season one like Public Morals or Vinyl.

 

I'm dying, seeing all The Wire cast. Did you notice "Slim Charles" from the Barksdale organization? He's called "Stretch" in the The Deuce. Funny going from Slim to Stretch.

 

Yeah and Michael Rispoli is great. He's much loved in The Sopranos, although he was barely in it. The fact that his character was much loved by the rest of the Soprano family and his legacy kind of carries through the show. Great to see him in this.

 

Might watch episode 3 now.

[EvolvedWalker]

Season 2 is coming

http://deadline.com/2017/09/the-deuce-renewed-season-2-hbo-1202173112/

[SonnyNapoli]

 

Finished off all four episodes at one strike, can't wait untill the next one is aired.

Appearence of Method Man and Michael Rispoli just made the show, aswell as some of The Wire cast.

Hope it won't get cancelled after season one like Public Morals or Vinyl.

 

I'm dying, seeing all The Wire cast. Did you notice "Slim Charles" from the Barksdale organization? He's called "Stretch" in the The Deuce. Funny going from Slim to Stretch.

 

Yeah and Michael Rispoli is great. He's much loved in The Sopranos, although he was barely in it. The fact that his character was much loved by the rest of the Soprano family and his legacy kind of carries through the show. Great to see him in this.

 

Might watch episode 3 now.

 

 

Kinda unusual seein' Slim without corn rows and not as a badass drug enforcer.

[Mister Pink]

Season 2 is coming

http://deadline.com/2017/09/the-deuce-renewed-season-2-hbo-1202173112/

 

Great news. So glad we know this straight away. TV/film is so volatile.

 

Watched the third episode last night. I'm loving Candy's story. She's a really interesting character. I was unsure if I would like Maggie Gyllenhaal but she's really owning that role. I still think there's a lot to get to know about her yet. I like her budding entrepreneurial spirit, working for herself, thinking outside the box.

 

Also did anyone notice with the Irish mob guys. They made a reference to a real Irish mobster from Hell's Kitchen at the time Mickey Spillane. I think it was part of Spillane's crew that Vinny goes to meet. I knew some characters might be loosely based off real ones but actually using a real name of a real mobster? That was cool.

 

There hasn't been much Irish mob representation in films even though they were around longer than the Italians and had a long war and rivalry with them. I'm glad to see them in GTA IV and now The Deuce.

 

Some tales of that area to go with The Deuce...

 

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Mister Pink

[The Time Ranger]

I watched episode one and some of episode two. So far i'm enjoying it. The sets are amazing, it really feels like a portal back in time. Sometimes with period dramas there's a lot of indoor scenes as it's difficult and expensive to create an authentic time specific environment, but in The Deuce that's not the case. That old city skyline, all the era specific cars and clothes, an abundance of extras. It looks and feels like a living breathing city.

 

I can see similarities with The Wire, and not just in some familiar faces making an appearence. The way characters converse, the occasional nuggets of wisdom they drop, the little moments of humour, at times it feels like you're eavesdropping on a real conversation. The conversation between the two pimps in the bus station is an example of this.

 

There are numerous characters, each giving us a unique viewpoint into the city they all share. Looking forward to watching more, there's just one thing i'm confused about, if somebody could help clear it up that would be great.

 

 

So Frankie is in debt to the mob, Vince went to the mob to work it out, Vince and his brother in law worked out a deal with Rudy which involved the construction site payroll, which the brother in law has access to. I'm not really sure what this deal means and how it works?

 

[SonnyNapoli]

Holy motherf*cker.

 

Matthew Ianello in episode 6. Real life Genovese capo.

 

[feckyerlife]

 

 

So Frankie is in debt to the mob, Vince went to the mob to work it out, Vince and his brother in law worked out a deal with Rudy which involved the construction site payroll, which the brother in law has access to. I'm not really sure what this deal means and how it works?

 

one of the reasons the mafia uses the construction racket for, is no show jobs. with the brother in law over seeing payroll. I imagine the way they will pay the debt back is putting a couple of Rudy's guy on the construction payroll

[The Time Ranger]

 

 

 

So Frankie is in debt to the mob, Vince went to the mob to work it out, Vince and his brother in law worked out a deal with Rudy which involved the construction site payroll, which the brother in law has access to. I'm not really sure what this deal means and how it works?

 

one of the reasons the mafia uses the construction racket for, is no show jobs. with the brother in law over seeing payroll. I imagine the way they will pay the debt back is putting a couple of Rudy's guy on the construction payrollThat clears it up, thank you.

[Spaghetti Cat]

Was getting a bit worried because the last couple episodes were just spinning wheels, but last night's episode was pretty good.

 

OT, but I could see this as a good setting for a future GTA series. Liberty City in the 70's would be boss!