Why grief?

[HamwithCheese]

3 hours ago, MafiaDesigns said:

What exactly is gaming when you can't do what you want

People that get griefed cant do what they want because they're dragged into a sh*tty death match by a guy that likes stroking his epeen.

[Neemo]

On 7/15/2019 at 9:18 AM, MafiaDesigns said:

People honestly just need to learn to defend themselves

Except there is no way to "defend yourself" in any of the vehicles that R* gives u for deliveries now is there?

[HopalongCasidy]

8 minutes ago, Neemo said:

Except there is no way to "defend yourself" in any of the vehicles that R* gives u for deliveries now is there?

I don't like it, personally, but the answer is team up.  

[MafiaDesigns]

15 minutes ago, Neemo said:

Except there is no way to "defend yourself" in any of the vehicles that R* gives u for deliveries now is there?

Be creative, think outside the box. Its not rocket science 

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

12 minutes ago, HopalongCasidy said:

I don't like it, personally, but the answer is team up.  

Teaming up in this game is better said than done, see the following:

 

- Anyone who helps you to either move or defend your sales gets paid peanuts, so there's not much of a motivation for players to stick around. Hell, even some of your own friends and crewmates will help you with the expectation of you returning the favor to them.

- Not everyone has the weapons, vehicles, knowledge or free time available to help you defend your sales in an efficient way.

- Most sales are 2-4 vehicles, so even if you do get help, they will be busy moving said vehicles across the map instead of playing defense in an air vehicle.

- Even with a competent team of players defending your sales, there's not much that can be done against someone Off the Radar, Passive popping or using the Orbital Cannon.

 

This game is designed in such way that teamwork is both forced and discouraged at the same time.

[HopalongCasidy]

1 minute ago, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

Teaming up in this game is better said than done, see the following:

 

- Anyone who helps you to either move or defend your sales gets paid peanuts, so there's not much of a motivation for players to stick around. Hell, even some of your own friends and crewmates will help you with the expectation of you returning the favor to them.

- Not everyone has the weapons, vehicles, knowledge or free time available to help you defend your sales in an efficient way.

- Most sales are 2-4 vehicles, so even if you do get help, they will be busy moving said vehicles across the map instead of playing defense in an air vehicle.

- Even with a competent team of players defending your sales, there's not much that can be done against someone Off the Radar, Passive popping or using the Orbital Cannon.

 

This game is designed in such way that teamwork is both forced and discouraged at the same time.

I cannot argue with any of that.  Test NAT type > Profit.  Fortunately, I am the type of person that will help some random out.  

[Neuling2000]

On 7/15/2019 at 3:18 PM, MafiaDesigns said:

The way I see it, the game says "Destroy Rival CEO OR MC Supplies" 

 

I will do just that. If R* didn't want us to "grief" they wouldn't tell us to interfere. 

 

The word "grief" is definitely used in the wrong context lately. This is an online game with a rank based system along with digital currency. This game was made for competition. People shouldn't be so "surprised" when someone kills them a couple times. At this point in the games lifespan you would expect people to bother you. People honestly just need to learn to defend themselves instead of crying about someone "bullying" or just plain our getting "greiffed" 

How can I defend myself in a Mule, Journey or Camper against a passive popping Opressor MKII?

[Rumblebud]

4 hours ago, HamwithCheese said:

People that get griefed cant do what they want because they're dragged into a sh*tty death match by a guy that likes stroking his epeen.

Come to think of it, that's more the problem than actually getting their cargo destroyed. Some don't really play this game solely for PvP.

[San_Sicario]

1 hour ago, CanadianMuscle said:

Come to think of it, that's more the problem than actually getting their cargo destroyed. Some don't really play this game solely for PvP.

It's like people don't know how to Find New Session. 

[MafiaDesigns]

11 minutes ago, San_Sicario said:

It's like people don't know how to Find New Session. 

Finally, someone said it! 

 

If you can't handle the pressure of a Public Session cause your soft as a feather, stay out of Pubs and stay in Invite Only Sessions

Edited July 17, 2019 by MafiaDesigns

[AdriiRozayXOXO]

4 minutes ago, MafiaDesigns said:

Finally, someone said it! 

 

If you can't handle the the pressure of a Public Session cause your soft as a feather, stay out of Pubs and stay in Invite Only Sessions

Exactly lol if I don't destroy your cargo or spawn kill you then someone else will regardless.

[Lonely-Martin]

10 hours ago, MafiaDesigns said:

Its people like "noobs/crybabies" that RDO is horrible now days too. Instead of telling people to suck it up and learn to play the game they basically killed it at the same time. 

(This is a long post, by all means skip on by. No worries. It's not aimed at you, more just using your points to make mine, apologies if you feel otherwise though).

 

RDRO is sh*t because they launched it with sod all content and haven't added much since and with an immediate focus on microtransactions, while allowing so many day one bugs to pass the beta phase and allow glitched/cheated cash and now gold to get another free pass. The doubling up on dripfeeding with PS4 then Xbox getting content at different times is comical at best too. Among the obvious of forcing to opposing playstyles into an inevitable clash again, lol. Point is, RDRO is sh*t for many reasons.

 

Having folk off radar is most certainly a positive step and something GTA should have done when businesses arrived. (Too late now with the knowledge we have of where stuff is/leads and the petty toys we have to easily sucker punch those fish in a barrel already though unfortunately).

 

Call us all the names you want, but the game offers PvE so it's gonna attract PvE players, same for PvP obviously. But these 2 franchises were built on PvE and their stories so it's all R*'s doing if we dislike and discredit/devalue any potential and unwanted PvP forced on us out there. As you said, 'what's gaming if I can't do what I want?' (You're right there though, more at the bottom).

 

R* said from day one of the beta to send feedback and help them create the freemode experience as it was always a work in progress, seems more dislike the 'always on radar, cheap kills cheap thrills' crap it was at launch more than wanted it, lol. R* won't make big changes like anti-griefing measures if only a few asked, the majority clearly want a far better thought out game of it. (Though clearly some just need R*'s games to remain weak and tacky so they can force their will, GTA has shown us for years many are that keen there, lol).

 

As RDRO's freemode was always a work in progress, maybe this applies to anyone struggling to find their way over there...

10 hours ago, MafiaDesigns said:

..suck it up and learn to play the game... 

... Seems some need to, or it might not be the game for them.

 

(A light-hearted jab using very common 'griefer talk' back at folk that very much like to sling it my way. And yes, felt good too, he he. But nothing personal or directed at you per say as I am generalizing of course).

 

Killing folk in defensive is punished with the anti-griefing measures in place, so people need to seek out some red dot players that are on radar at all times for easy kills. Although they are likely to fight back somewhat, lol. Again from GTA:O, we know many can't have that. But anyone killing folk not wanting PvP are griefing over there by R*'s standards now. Maybe stay with GTA, they can be a bad sport here freely.

 

Anyway, bullsh*t and jokes aside as GTA really is a lost cause this far in and I'm glad R* addressed 'griefing' as a topic with us in RDRO. (A slight chance to improve here after the new feedback changes when the casino comes, but who are we kidding, this game is beyond a fix, lol).

 

As I said though, you are right. This is very much the root cause of the whole damn lot...

10 hours ago, MafiaDesigns said:

What exactly is gaming when you can't do what you want?

.. That, along with forcing 2 direcly opposing playstyles together is only ever going to end up f*cked up if one playstyle can affect the other so much while the developer seeks to appeal to both. GTA gets a pass because though we miss content or trade prices, we can still play other areas of the game without having others impose their playstyle on us. As you said in a later post, go invite, and I do just that with anyone I play with. Hence I stayed this long, lol.

 

RDRO doesn't have anywhere near the amount of positives GTA:O has. As f*cked as this game got, RDRO is just league's behind for many reasons, the lack of flexibility being a big part of it. So much potential, but all stalled by infighting through R* being cheap.

 

Does make me laugh that R* have acknowledged and addressed griefing in RDRO but refuse to mention it regarding GTA as it's clearly easier to here. Sorry for the ramble. ✌

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

1 hour ago, San_Sicario said:

It's like people don't know how to Find New Session. 

It's like people don't know how to mind their own business.

 

1 hour ago, MafiaDesigns said:

If you can't handle the pressure of a Public Session cause your soft as a feather, stay out of Pubs and stay in Invite Only Sessions

Calm down tough guy. Maybe you're the one who can't handle the thought of people not wanting to deal with this bullsh*t.

 

1 hour ago, MissMurkina said:

Exactly lol if I don't destroy your cargo or spawn kill you then someone else will regardless.

What kind of absurd logic is that? "If someone else is going to be a dick anyway, why not me instead?"

[Lonely-Martin]

#softie4life

Edited July 17, 2019 by Lonely-Martin
Mwahahah. ;)

[KazzMajol]

On 7/15/2019 at 5:01 PM, HamwithCheese said:

It's weird. For a group that says we're so easily butthurt, you guys sure seem mad for us generalizing you guys into 1 group.

 

i am neither mad nor butthurt.    cheers.

 

On 7/15/2019 at 4:58 PM, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

toxic

 

mmm hmm.   lol

 

[Yellow Dog with Cone]

7 minutes ago, KazzMajol said:

mmm hmm.   lol

What, can't I call things as what they truly are?

 

Erasing the potential gains of other player for no other reason than your own sadic amusement is a textbook definition of "toxic" behaviour.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Voodoo-Hendrix

[Big Molio]

17 minutes ago, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

Erasing the potential gains of other player for no other reason than your own sadic amusement is a textbook definition of "toxic" behaviour.

Does that include things like Torched, Headhunter, Haulage or Executive Search for example?

[HamwithCheese]

4 hours ago, San_Sicario said:

It's like people don't know how to Find New Session. 

So we gotta treat you guys like animals? Got it. Keep away the griefer. They only attack everything that moves.

 

1 hour ago, Big Molio said:

Does that include things like Torched, Headhunter, Haulage or Executive Search for example?

Don't you get money for stopping the CEO in this case. In anyways, I still think it's worth it to do literally anything else.

[Big Molio]

2 minutes ago, HamwithCheese said:

Don't you get money for stopping the CEO in this case. In anyways, I still think it's worth it to do literally anything else.

You do. Not much, but isn’t the principle of halting their money-making for your own entertainment the same?

 

I play those because I enjoy trying to beat the player who launches missions like Headhunter, Torched, Piracy Prevention et al at their own game.

 

 

[HamwithCheese]

11 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

You do. Not much, but isn’t the principle of halting their money-making for your own entertainment the same?

 

I play those because I enjoy trying to beat the player who launches missions like Headhunter, Torched, Piracy Prevention et al at their own game.

 

 

Stopping someone from headhunter is hardly destroying cargo or cars for nothing.

[Big Molio]

1 minute ago, HamwithCheese said:

Stopping someone from headhunter is hardly destroying cargo or cars for nothing.

In principle it exactly the same. Player A tries to accomplish something, Player B tries to prevent him.

 

[Nyamber]

1 minute ago, Big Molio said:

In principle it exactly the same. Player A tries to accomplish something, Player B tries to prevent him.

 

Except one of the things costs the player hours/days of time, and the other costs at most 20 minutes.

[Big Molio]

1 minute ago, Natsuki said:

Except one of the things costs the player hours/days of time, and the other costs at most 20 minutes.

So it’s the time spent accumulating this stuff for the bumper payouts which moves this into griefing?

[Lonely-Martin]

1 hour ago, Big Molio said:

Does that include things like Torched, Headhunter, Haulage or Executive Search for example?

Na, never in my view. Unless one cheats of course (god mode or the like). Stuff like that is fully fair game as they are optional on where we play these. If people don't want competition, don't do them in public. Made me a good haul and made it easier to not care about businesses at all. (Though heists and other PvE does too of course).

 

The problem with VIP works is that many like to not switch from public to invite (Or forget) and then when challenged, they feel that the lobby is theirs and get comfy is all. It can all be avoided without R* doing a single thing. (Though I would like them to make it known things like nightclub promos are any session compatible as I'm sure it would help with the confusion - I started doing those in public and it blew my mind we could f*ck off quietly, lol).

 

That said, if you steal another's VIP job, I thought the pay was far more fair. (Basically a full 25-30k to win piracy prevention or fortified etc?). But more so, the way both sides have more flexibility or buffed vehicles to use, (the Ruiner 2k being stronger, the packages picked up via Oppressor etc), and no long term losses are a huge plus.

 

Business battles are invite friendly too, lol. Haven't missed a T-shirt I think.

6 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

So it’s the time spent accumulating this stuff for the bumper payouts which moves this into griefing?

Yes, they know (reading here confirms this from many) that a huge setback fuels 'The Salt' the long term progress being stiffled is the endgame for griefers and R* gave tgem all the power in it. Heists were plagued until freemode made it that more satisfying for them, lol.

 

To try to cause that reaction is very deliberate and griefing 101. Freemode events and VIP stuff is an adversary mode in public or a contact mission. That's what I feel R* were going for when those blue Sultans arrived. 

 

Just the money proved awesome by pushing long term consequences on one side while tooling up the other with easier methods, lol.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Lonely-Martin
sh*t, sorry Mo. Bit of a ramble.

[HamwithCheese]

11 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

So it’s the time spent accumulating this stuff for the bumper payouts which moves this into griefing?

It's because...

1. You gain nothing for ruining a sale. 

2. The fact that I've lost, and invested, in the sale makes you (the griefer) happy. That's it.

[Smokewood]

9 hours ago, Voodoo-Hendrix said:

Teaming up in this game is better said than done, see the following:

 

- Anyone who helps you to either move or defend your sales gets paid peanuts, so there's not much of a motivation for players to stick around. Hell, even some of your own friends and crewmates will help you with the expectation of you returning the favor to them.

- Not everyone has the weapons, vehicles, knowledge or free time available to help you defend your sales in an efficient way.

- Most sales are 2-4 vehicles, so even if you do get help, they will be busy moving said vehicles across the map instead of playing defense in an air vehicle.

- Even with a competent team of players defending your sales, there's not much that can be done against someone Off the Radar, Passive popping or using the Orbital Cannon.

 

This game is designed in such way that teamwork is both forced and discouraged at the same time.

That's why you have to help them for peanut too. It goes both ways.. I will happily defend you while you make sales, I will also happily destroy your sales if I am not working for you.

[Big Molio]

Just now, HamwithCheese said:

It's because...

1. You gain nothing for ruining a sale. 

2. The fact that I've lost, and invested, in the sale makes you (the griefer) happy. That's it.

So it wouldn’t be griefing if I got all your sale money for stealing or destroying your stock? I mean that would increase this behaviour a hundredfold but it wouldn’t be griefing then? By your rules?

 

The critics of this gameplay method are as adept at tying themselves up in knots at trying to justify why their opinion on this is the “right” one as the proponents of it are.

 

I get called a griefer for stealing Haulage trucks. I get called a griefer for spawn killing players trying to unseat me from King of the Castle.

 

Who is right and who is wrong?

[Smokewood]

12 minutes ago, HamwithCheese said:

It's because...

1. You gain nothing for ruining a sale. 

2. The fact that I've lost, and invested, in the sale makes you (the griefer) happy. That's it.

1. Not true

2. Not true

[HamwithCheese]

Just now, Smokewood said:

1. Not true

2. Not true

Well instead of just simply saying "not true" why don't you tell me why you destroyed my sale?

 

7 minutes ago, Big Molio said:

The critics of this gameplay method are as adept at tying themselves up in knots at trying to justify why their opinion on this is the “right” one as the proponents of it are.

I dont know man you're making some knots with these hypothetical scenarios trying to contradict very simple rules that have been laid out.

[Big Molio]

1 minute ago, HamwithCheese said:

I dont know man you're making some knots with these hypothetical scenarios trying to contradict very simple rules that have been laid out.

Rules defined by who though, you? Are you the arbiter of what constitutes griefing?