Another reason why REVENGE is canon

[shadyslady]

First off, despite the obvious reason Niko would have never worked with Dimitri again...

There's this easter egg with Jimmy looking at Niko's liveinvader page with Roman still posting...this is already known and since it's an easteregg this might not be much.

 

Now what definitely is a reason to me:

Packie's speech on the way to the paleto job.

He mentions Michael Keane's and Derrick's death and that Niko "IS PROBABLY DEAD TOO"

 

Niko had a crush on Kate McReary, even if you didn't go out on all "dates" with her, where she clearly states in one of the final conversations IF she wants a husband it would be Niko, the story showcases this.

 

Now if Kate would have survived Packie would definitely know if Niko is alive or not.

He would've been Kate's husband or forever been stuck in the friend zone.

Either way he would know through Kate.

So I say it's Kate dying, Derrick dead and Ma McReary probably died too so Packie went off to leave it behind.

 

Of course it can all be just sloppy writing by rockstar games too.

[Tycek]

If you select Deal ending, Kate will eventually dump Niko. So even if she's alive, she didn't want to have anything common with Niko and cut all his ties with him.

 

 

[Zello]

In Revenge Kate dies though don't you think he would have mentioned that too...

 

DEAL IS CANON

Edited March 20, 2017 by Zello

[Megumi]

If only the word "canon" never existed.

[DOUGL4S1]

If only the word "canon" never existed.

So the word "canon" would be non-canon?

[gooeyhole]

Bro did you hear Packie over the phone when he calls Niko about Kate? He's yelling and wants to cry. He probably didn't want to bring it up. He can think of his brothers in the pine box because of the lives they lived but what did Kate do to deserve death? If he started talking about Kate before a job he might lose his focus.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Mister Leone

[shadyslady]

If you select Deal ending, Kate will eventually dump Niko. So even if she's alive, she didn't want to have anything common with Niko and cut all his ties with him.

 

I know this. And I assumed someone would bring this up. But think again, it is Niko who cuts the ties to Kate (momentarily). After the last mission she calls Niko and offers her company. He refuses.

In Revenge Kate dies though don't you think he would have mentioned that too...

 

DEAL IS CANON

In your world deal is canon alright. Stick with it!

 

Why should packie mention kate? He only mentioned the heist members.

[Piggsy pls]

#DEALNATION

I don't think either is meant to be canon over the other. Rockstar left both endings equally plausible. That said, Deal will always be the better ending to me, because Revenge is anti-climatic.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Piggsy pls

[gooeyhole]

#DEALNATION

I don't think either is meant to be canon over the other. Rockstar left both endings equally plausible. That said, Deal will always be the better ending to me, because Revenge is anti-climatic.

Deal feels canon to me. Whatever Niko did, kill people or seek peace, he was always f*cked either way.

[slimeball supreme]

revenge is a sh*t ending why would you want it to be canon

[_Raven_]

Now if Kate would have survived Packie would definitely know if Niko is alive or not.

He would've been Kate's husband or forever been stuck in the friend zone.

Either way he would know through Kate.

But that doesn't explain the reason why Niko has a LifeInvader profile in V. If Packie thinks Niko is dead, wouldn't he have found the profile page? Either way, this doesn't necessarily prove Deal or Revenge is canon, even though Niko mentions Roman's birthday on the LifeInvader page. It's entirely player-choice unless Rockstar ever decides a canon in the future.

[slimeball supreme]

But that doesn't explain the reason why Niko has a LifeInvader profile in V. If Packie thinks Niko is dead, wouldn't he have found the profile page?

But the Lifeinvader thing is literally just an Easter egg, I'm pretty sure it's not canon. Like, I doubt a lot of thought went into it Edited March 22, 2017 by Mr. Fartenhate

[shadyslady]

revenge is a sh*t ending why would you want it to be canon

I should have known this topic will get into this direction.

Ya'll stick to your deal ending.

To me it isn't canon.

And revenge fits in perfectly.

Niko lets darko live but definitely goes after Dimitri as he is a recent threat.

Would be ridiculous anyways working with him after he wanted you and Bernie dead not long before and calls you with threats after the hostage exchange.

If it would be a movie the platypus shootout would be the climax. Happy end at the wedding but then one last thing...

 

Revenge feels about right. Deal completely not.

Going after the money when I'm already super rich. Lol

[xspy40]

 

But that doesn't explain the reason why Niko has a LifeInvader profile in V. If Packie thinks Niko is dead, wouldn't he have found the profile page?

But the Lifeinvader thing is literally just an Easter egg, I'm pretty sure it's not canon. Like, I doubt a lot of thought went into it

 

 

Why is it non-canon?

LifeInvader is a thing in GTA V. Why wouldn't a page from it be canon?

[slimeball supreme]

LifeInvader is a thing in GTA V. Why wouldn't a page from it be canon?

because it's an easter egg???

and not like, a valuable part of the game??? you can't even access it yourself, it's just a texture on a static prop, most of the text is illegible too

 

it's just a neat reference and some filler stuff - i mean - it's not nearly as substantial as everyone makes it out to be

 

I should have known this topic will get into this direction.

it was a joke?/?//

Edited March 24, 2017 by Mr. Fartenhate

[Hgrunt_Murphy]

 

LifeInvader is a thing in GTA V. Why wouldn't a page from it be canon?

because it's an easter egg???

and not like, a valuable part of the game??? you can't even access it yourself, it's just a texture on a static prop, most of the text is illegible too

 

it's just a neat reference and some filler stuff - i mean - it's not nearly as substantial as everyone makes it out to be

 

Easter eggs can be canon too.

And the entire LifeInvader itself is not really a valuable part of the game - yet it is a part of it, judging by how the in-game world mentions it many times.

Infact, LifeInvader gives additional background information about characters - that was its major purpose.

Packie coming to San Andreas at the end of the credits was considered an easter egg that won't happen, as Rockstar said previous characters won't return in GTA V, but Packie appeared anyway.

 

The text is rather quite visible through file extraction: http://gta.wikia.com/wiki/Lifeinvader/Niko_Bellic

Edited March 24, 2017 by Hgrunt_Murphy

[Piggsy pls]

 

I should have known this topic will get into this direction.

it was a joke?/?//

An accurate joke tho

[The Deadite]

revenge is a sh*t ending why would you want it to be canon

lmao revenge is worlds better than Deal, why would Niko work again with Dimitri after being proven countless times he's not trustworthy at all... not to mention he kidnapped Roman and tried to kill Niko several times.

[slimeball supreme]

lmao revenge is worlds better than Deal, why would Niko work again with Dimitri after being proven countless times he's not trustworthy at all... not to mention he kidnapped Roman and tried to kill Niko several times.

even though deal is far more thematically cohesive, leads to a far more interesting final mission and character tragedy, and so on - ill go into literal motivations by the bullet point;

• the pegorinos. these guys have been begging for niko to work with them on this one job. niko is close to phil bell, he knows a few good people that could easily be f*cked over by a rash decision like this, and more importantly, knows not to f*ck around with a big gang from personal experience.
• what we learned from the mission with darko is that revenge is empty, hollow. even if niko doesnt kill darko, he still realized that he wouldve been better off not shooting him, that he was a drug addled wreck of a man. the words darko said, the many quotable lines (you killed my friends for 1000 dollars, you were always a killer, etc.) would only further drive this point home. if niko realises that he needs to let go of his mistakes, that the past isn't important (aka one of the main themes of the game), why the f*ck would he turn this on it's head
• killing dmitri wouldn't literally be the end of the russian mafia itself. its one guy, the head of a pretty big syndicate in the city. how would killing one man fix any of his problems, especially if the russian head honchos know his identity?
• roman's advice, especially. niko is incredibly close to roman, he knows that a money maker like this could be incredibly valuable for both roman, mallorie, and any other potential children (which we learn at the end of the game is definitely coming). this choice would not only help his family, but it would pull himself out of the game, and free him from the shackles of the criminal underworld. this is something niko has wanted since the beginning of the game, and i have no idea why hed let an opportunity like this slip, as well as completely avoiding a chance to help his cousin

the only reason niko WOULD choose revenge is if he was a dumb, cold, bloodthirsty rash decision maker who only factors himself into any given situation - which we know is simply not true. the only motivation niko has IN FAVOUR of deal is the fact he doesnt like dmitri and knows hes pretty slimy

 

The text is rather quite visible through file extraction: http://gta.wikia.com/wiki/Lifeinvader/Niko_Bellic

of course the lifeinvader stuff is valuable, but this is a page you cant even access, that has no bearing on anything. this is a png on a laptop, not a cutscene depicting niko living happily with roman in broker as a cab driver

 

>18 others are obsessed with this

>+1 fanboy

>obessions

 

not only is the layout inconsistent with the site you can actually access, but it seems rockstar knew that people were gonna overthink an easter egg like this

Edited March 25, 2017 by Mr. Fartenhate

[The Deadite]

...the pegorinos. these guys have been begging for niko to work with them on this one job. niko is close to phil bell, he knows a few good people that could easily be f*cked over by a rash decision like this, and more importantly, knows not to f*ck around with a big gang from personal experience...

The only good guy he knows is Phill.

Realistically speaking, he's just a hired gun, important decisions shouldn't center around him i'm sure there's plenty others in LC who could do the work. Peg shouldn't depend of him either, he's just a freelance worker, is not up to Niko to look up on other people's interests but his own (specially if he doesn't like Pegorino on a personal level)

 

...what we learned from the mission with darko is that revenge is empty, hollow. even if niko doesnt kill darko, he still realized that he wouldve been better off not shooting him, that he was a drug addled wreck of a man. the words darko said, the many quotable lines (you killed my friends for 1000 dollars, you were always a killer, etc.) would only further drive this point home. if niko realises that he needs to let go of his mistakes, that the past isn't important (aka one of the main themes of the game), why the f*ck would he turn this on it's head...

And further sell yourself for money to the man that screwed you plenty of times in the past it's the more loable thing to do?

Darko literally mentions he did it for the money too, he f*cked over his friends FOR MONEY, can't you see how Darko's words can be used against your case too?

 

...killing dmitri wouldn't literally be the end of the russian mafia itself. its one guy, the head of a pretty big syndicate in the city. how would killing one man fix any of his problems, especially if the russian head honchos know his identity?

There weren't other head ponchos and he didn't wanted to get rid of the mafia but Dimitri itself, the more sane thing to do would be just walking away from everything, but between working for someone who has a murder boner for you and killing said guy... it's more sensible to kill the f*cking guy.

This is further proven in the events that take place on this ending.

 

...roman's advice...

Ohh please, Roman is driven by pure greed at this point, anyone can see this, is not from a need standpoint but greed. He literally plans to go to Vice City, not support his family.

Niko must have plenty of money at this point and Roman still has his taxi business, they don't need this.

Peace of mind is what they need, which can be done with Dimitri's death.

 

...the only reason niko WOULD choose revenge is if he was a dumb, cold, bloodthirsty rash decision maker who only factors himself into any given situation...

He got screwed up yet again in Revenge, TWICE (the work setup and the assasination attempt) even Stevie Wonder could have seen this happening. How was this a remotely intelligent decision at all in comparison to revenge?

He got Dimitri where he needed and got rid of him, better him dead that Niko.

 

...even though deal is far more thematically cohesive, leads to a far more interesting final mission...

Literally the only pro on Deal ending. I don't give a sh*t if Roman's death adds more to "Le'dramatic end", it's just ill judgement on Niko's behalf and the whole premise of the ending is incredibly weak because of this.

 

My point is proven on the game for f*cks sakes:

 

>Niko works for someone he knows he can't trust.

>Niko gets screwed.

>They send an assasin to kill Niko but Roman ends up dead.

 

This whole deal just makes Niko look greedy, naive and quite frankly, stupid.

What else there's to it dude? Don't trust the antagonist, it's a fairly mundane concept.

 

EDIT: To further hammer my point home, here's an extract of the dialogue between Niko and Kate:

 

"It could be very profitable but it would mean going back on an oath i swore to myself"

 

"I'm not going to respect you if you compromise what you believe in for money, Niko. Goodbye"

 

How more obvious can it be?

Edited March 25, 2017 by The Deadite

[slimeball supreme]

The only good guy he knows is Phill.

Realistically speaking, he's just a hired gun, important decisions shouldn't center around him i'm sure there's plenty others in LC who could do the work. Peg shouldn't depend of him either, he's just a freelance worker, is not up to Niko to look up on other people's interests but his own (specially if he doesn't like Pegorino on a personal level)

phil, frankie, so on. in this case, the choice IS on his hands, and your point here is simply picking gripes with the choice itself, not the actual outcome.

even still, its not just him to factor in on, but everyone around him. his family still gets hit if niko does, so really the exact same outcome takes place - just more people are screwed over in revenge

 

And further sell yourself for money to the man that screwed you plenty of times in the past it's the more loable thing to do?

Darko literally mentions he did it for the money too, he f*cked over his friends FOR MONEY, can't you see how Darko's words can be used against your case too?

no??? what??? saying that it was about money is such a grave misjudging of the scene's intention i wanna stab myself in the jugular

he's not selling himself out, he's doing one last score and then f*cking off. one last thing, one last job, for the good of the people around him. darko was showing that not only was revenge not the answer, but the killing and the murder already made them one in the same. more killing, more murder - that just makes more of a case for deal, not revenge. you dont go out thinking 'oh okay its money' - sh*t, the whole point about that line is that niko was making money off killing people just like him, that he had no right to criticize darko for killing people when he did the very same. darko's words dont even make a dent in my case, they just further support it

 

There weren't other head ponchos and he didn't wanted to get rid of the mafia but Dimitri itself, the more sane thing to do would be just walking away from everything, but between working for someone who has a murder boner for you and killing said guy... it's more sensible to kill the f*cking guy.

This is further proven in the events that take place on this ending.

no its not, not at all

there's nothing that says that dmitri is the only leader of the russian mafia (an asinine concept in itself) and there are all the members that were talked about during and before dmitri's reign in both news reports and smaller references. acting like the mafia wouldnt go after you for something like this is absurd - and even when they do, how would niko have known? let's be rational, niko's not a time traveler. why would dmitri go after niko when all ties are cut?

 

Ohh please, Roman is driven by pure greed at this point, anyone can see this, is not from a need standpoint but greed. He literally plans to go to Vice City, not support his family.

Niko must have plenty of money at this point and Roman still has his taxi business, they don't need this.

Peace of mind is what they need, which can be done with Dimitri's death.

niko doesnt have money though?? not canonically anyway, judging by how frequently he talks about being short changed. roman is still canonically using their money, he already took a big loan on the apartment, and more importantly, he has the wedding coming up. just because roman was using vacations as a bargaining chip doesnt mean it was motivated by greed. they already have peace and mind with deal, too - how the f*ck would dmitri betray someone? if anything, dmitri's betrayal further helped niko because they both got more money. he was only screwed over in a completely out of the blue decision, so you dont have an argument for saying that 'he was going to betray niko anyway'

 

he didnt betray niko, not during the deal. he betrayed a rival mafia family, screwed them over, literally making everyone involved except the rival mafiosi richer in the process. f*ck, jimmy and dmitri probably wanted to do it anyway, judging by their final interaction

 

He got screwed up yet again in Revenge, TWICE (the work setup and the assasination attempt) even Stevie Wonder could have seen this happening. How was this a remotely intelligent decision at all in comparison to revenge?

He got Dimitri where he needed and got rid of him, better him dead that Niko.

i literally just ran through how he wasnt screwed over??? the ''work setup'' (aka the actual deal) went through with niko AND jimmy's crew profiting more, meaning they all got more money and nobody was harmed. the only reason niko was almost killed was the cut loose ties, being that he was planning on leaving the game and could easily snitch.

 

My point is proven on the game for f*cks sakes:

 

>Niko works for someone he knows he can't trust.

>Niko gets screwed. profits way more from the deal, along with everyone else involved

>They send an assasin to kill Niko but Roman ends up dead.

 

[...]

What else there's to it dude? Don't trust the antagonist, it's a fairly mundane concept.

my point is also proven in the game???

 

>niko f*cks over the prospects of someone desperately in need of help

>negative consequences ensue

 

using the actual events of the ending, which are practically the same except someone different dying, is a weak argument. the same thing happens either way

 

edit:

EDIT: To further hammer my point home, here's an extract of the dialogue between Niko and Kate:

 

"It could be very profitable but it would mean going back on an oath i swore to myself"

 

"I'm not going to respect you if you compromise what you believe in for money, Niko. Goodbye"

 

How more obvious can it be?

that's not more obvious, that's just kate completely missing niko's intention. he just promised himself he wouldnt work with dmitri, its not like he's about to ruin everything (like he does with revenge).

 

edit 2: ironed out opinions off the forums tbh, no point continuing

Edited March 26, 2017 by Mr. Fartenhate

[The Deadite]

The arguement of Niko being on need of money is hard to take it seriously when he owns a loft in Albany AV and Roman upgraded his taxi bussiness fleet. Niko whining about being poor is shoe horned either way, he was mainly in it to find Darko, he didn't needed another motive to commit crimes.

 

no??? what??? saying that it was about money is such a grave misjudging of the scene's intention i wanna stab myself in the jugular...

Uhh?

It was exactly about that, he did it to mantain his addiction. He wanted the money and f*cked over his friends. You can't read that in other way, literally betrayed his friends for the money.

Did something he shouldn't for money, much like Niko throughout the game and in Deal.

 

he's not selling himself out...

He does when he's working against his principles (working for Dimitri again) This is the definition of sellout.

 

- how the f*ck would dmitri betray someone? ...he was only screwed over in a completely out of the blue decision, so you dont have an argument for saying that 'he was going to betray niko anyway'...

Are you refering to the deal gone wrong?

Because so far Dimitri have been set up as the baddie hellbent on killing you.

Foul play was fully expected on Deal.

 

he didnt betray niko, not during the deal. he betrayed a rival mafia family, screwed them over, literally making everyone involved except the rival mafiosi richer in the process. f*ck, jimmy and dmitri probably wanted to do it anyway, judging by their final interaction

I dont remember the basics of what happened, but Niko was left on hostile grounds after the betrayal and he barely scaped the place on a truck or something, which was probably done on purpose. This was also likely planned beforehand like you just said, sending Niko in either way was just a sh*t gesture.

 

that's not more obvious, that's just kate completely missing niko's intention. he just promised himself he wouldnt work with dmitri, its not like he's about to ruin everything (like he does with revenge).

1) Kate didn't missed the point, she literally just repeated what Niko just said to her.

 

2) He ruins everything either way.

 

Dimitri is not trustworthy, working for/with him is a dumb thing to do... Pegorino can attest to that in Deal ending. Besides, the Platypus shotout it's also a dramatic end to Dimitri. Peg as a final boss is also a shocker because your attention wasn't directed to him so kate's murder is also surprising.

 

To be quite honest, this arguement is pants on heads retarded, i don't know what gta IV fan can think that trusting Dimitri is a thing Niko would actually do.

Edited March 25, 2017 by The Deadite

[HailHydra]

The lifeinvader one is simply just a Easter egg. Deal ending also made much more sense, and give the story a much larger impact than the revenge one. The story and motives of Niko just revolves so well around deal. Deal ending feels like the main event of the game, a perfect ending while revenge feels like just kinda thrown in because they need a second ending. But lol deal is so depressing though

[D9fred95]

The difference between Darko and Rascalov is danger really. Darko is very much not a threat. He's a bum and clearly unhappy with his current position in life. He poses no threat to Niko or his friends.

 

Rascalov however is an active threat. He burned down the taxi depot, got Roman kidnapped, threatened to expose Bernie and Bryce's relationship and worked with Bulgarin which screwed Niko and Packie out of diamonds. Even if Niko had a change of heart regarding the concept of revenge after meeting Darko, Rascalov is too dangerous to forgive and should be stopped.