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European Politics Discussion


Raavi
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2 minutes ago, Svip said:

Your post was 25 minutes old when I asked my questions.

I don't think the point you made about my post was in my post for more than a minute.

 

Still, do you think this north south divide is an accident or do you accept that London is the breadwinner?

Since we're talking about it now.

Edited by ilovebender.com
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35 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Read my post.

Says the one who repeatedly responds to reasoned, reasonably-long and cited posts with handwaves like "whatever" and falls back on the same stump rhetoric time after time.

 

Watching you flounder about like this page after page has been highly entertaining. You are horrible at debate and discussion.

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2 minutes ago, Bartleby said:

Says the one who repeatedly responds to reasoned, reasonably-long and cited posts with handwaves like "whatever" and falls back on the same stump rhetoric time after time.

 

Watching you flounder about like this page after page has been highly entertaining. You are horrible at debate and discussion.

They want to talk about reality, fine, they won't be dismissed as a loser or a crackpot; instead however; I see a bunch of less then 50% figures citing majority; that's always going to be met with 'whatever' 'come back when you have a majority'.

 

Because, last I heard, Brexit was happening because of democracy like Scotland's staying in the UK because of democracy.

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39 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Well, I still see a north south rich poor divide and like it or not, London is second to none in Europe.

That's why London overwhelmingly voted leave too, right?

Oh, wait, no! It was the most overwhelming place in all of England.

 

28 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

No, but again, you didn't even wait a minute to formulate your response

Here's a hint- people can only reply to what you've written. Not what you think you've written, or what you wished you'd written, or what you're going to write in 10 minutes once you're done triple posting.

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4 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

That's why London overwhelmingly voted leave too, right?

Oh, wait, no! It was the most overwhelming place in all of England.

I know, I voted to remain as did London where I voted to remain voted to remain. If anyone's being dragged out of the EU against our will with Scotland, it's us.

Unlike Scotland however, we're not trying to stop Brexit or vote for London independence.

I bet you voted to remain in a leave area right?

 

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4 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

I know, I voted to remain

Then why have you started arselicking Farage and the leave campaign with such ferocity, to the point of repeating their repeatedly debunked untruths ad nauseum?

What's your justification for such a violent ideological 180? Is it just "whatever the Tory head honchos say = my ideology"?

  

4 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Unlike Scotland however, we're not trying to stop Brexit

Speaking for yourself here I assume? London is basically the heart of the anti-Brexit movement.

 

4 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

I bet you voted to remain in a leave area right?

Nope, in the ward I'm registered to vote in, Remain won with about 56%.

  

6 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

They want to talk about reality, fine

Literally what everyone but you has done for a dozen pages.

You're the only one making up imaginary positions like "sivispacem hates Westminster" or "you're trying to stop Brexit by making statements on the energy economy of the UK".

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5 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

Then why ...

Because I possess the ability to learn, to change my mind.

 

Since voting to remain I saw Merkel call for EU countries to act like a unified bloc in their negotiations with UK; that was when I decided I didn't want to be in a bloc - If it wasn't for Merkel/Germany, perhaps UK and Ireland could work out the Irish border ourselves with no need to get Brussels' approval.

Having learned the EU resembles Hitler's peacetime plan for Europe and in November 2016, the EU's official response to Trump's election was to treat America as a problem; f*ck the EU.

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2 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Because I possess the ability to learn

I await with bated breath the demonstration of this astonishing skill.

 

2 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Since voting to remain I saw Merkel call for EU countries to act like a unified bloc

So you changed your mind when you saw Merkel voice something that the EU has been doing in one capacity or another since 1957, and in earnest (and European law) since 1992? But which you apparently didn't know about?

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2 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Because I possess the ability to learn, to change my mind.

Then why don't you read the figures and reports people cite to you? Or is your ability to learn strictly limited to Youtube videos?

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6 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Having learned the EU resembles Hitler's peacetime plan for Europe

How can you learn a thing that's not true? That's basically just being brainwashed.

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5 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

How can you learn a thing that's not true? That's basically just being brainwashed.

 

6 minutes ago, Bartleby said:

Then why don't you read the figures and reports people cite to you? Or is your ability to learn strictly limited to Youtube videos?

I have, 45% of SNP means nothing since it's not 55%; any other figures you've seen? Because all I see is 48% of Remain voters telling me 52% of Brexit voters don't know what they're doing and 45% of Scotland trying to force their will on the other 55%.

 

Why don't you look at the figures and the facts?

Do you think Boris Johnson usurped power and is forcing the UK to leave the EU against its will?

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Either in this thread or the UK one, sivis pointed out a list of about 10-15 reports cited to you throughout the discussion which you seemingly ignored and did not speak to. Will you read those? If not, why not?

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Just now, ilovebender.com said:

it's true.

Yeah, it's not, though.

 

Neuordnung is only similar (and even then, only fairly loosely) to the EU in scope.

I don't think any sensible, rational human being would describe a network of militarily occupied states and puppet-governments and forcefully resettled with Aryans "resembling" the EU.

   

6 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

the EU's official response to Trump's election was to treat America as a problem

Can you blame them? The Trump administration's approach to foreign trade and security matters is unquestionably problematic for Europe.

The EU has reacted in exactly the way that any sovereign state would typically react to such actions.

What kind of response were you expecting?!

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45% of Scotland voted SNP in December, 45% of Scotland voted to leave the UK.

 

Do you know math?

 

Why should anyone listen to a minority in a democracy where the idea that gets the most votes wins?

 

 

Do I have to remind you of Brexit?

 

 

History is decided by the winners.

10 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

 

Can you blame them? The Trump administration's approach to foreign trade and security matters is unquestionably problematic for Europe.

The EU has reacted in exactly the way that any sovereign state would typically react to such actions.

What kind of response were you expecting?!

Of course I can blame them.

The US called for an end to the USSR, you don't suddenly root for the USSR, so what if America voted someone who feels the same about the EU?

Trump was right, the EU is hostile.

 

I think the EU should be less xenophobic towards America and less ambitious for a unified Europe since Europe's a backwards mud hole that hasn't earned what America have.

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11 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

I think the EU should be less xenophobic towards America and less ambitious for a unified Europe since Europe's a backwards mud hole that hasn't stolen and claimed credit for what America have.

Fixed that for you....

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18 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

Why should anyone listen to a minority in a democracy where the idea that gets the most votes wins?

Because, in case you hadn't noticed, it's possible to both "get the most votes" and also to not have an outright majority.

It's kind of basic maths, which is why I'm so astonished you're not able to grasp it.

 

18 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

The US called for an end to the USSR

If you check your history, then you'll see the US were far from the only people rooting for the end of the USSR.

They also didn't really get it, because the Commonwealth of Independent States is basically a post-Soviet reimagining of it albeit on a smaller scale.

 

Anyway, what's your point?

18 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

so what if America voted someone who feels the same about the EU?

I don't think Trump has any aversion to the EU- not a coherent one, anyway.

He just sees any strategically or economically powerful bloc doing trade deals on his doorstep as a threat- which he isn't entirely wrong about- but the age of true American economic hegemony ended a good decade ago.

It's just taken the US a while to realise it.

 

Anyway, why are you so obsessively Amerophillic? Why would the UK, or any other power for that matter, do what the US does, or wants, just because they do? That's a level of bootlicking, brown-nosing arsetongery several orders of magnitude worse than anything the EU gets.

 

18 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

I think the EU should be less xenophobic towards America

> Calls the EU "xenophobic"

> Refers to Europe as a "backwards mud hole"

 

I think you might need an education on what "xenohpobia" is.

What are the US' great achievements as a nation state, anyway?

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1 minute ago, sivispacem said:

Because, in case you hadn't noticed, it's possible to both "get the most votes" and also to not have an outright majority.

It's kind of basic maths, which is why I'm so astonished you're not able to grasp it.

 

If you check your history, then you'll see the US were far from the only people rooting for the end of the USSR.

They also didn't really get it, because the Commonwealth of Independent States is basically a post-Soviet reimagining of it albeit on a smaller scale.

 

Anyway, what's your point?

I don't think Trump has any aversion to the EU- not a coherent one, anyway.

He just sees any strategically or economically powerful bloc doing trade deals on his doorstep as a threat- which he isn't entirely wrong about- but the age of true American economic hegemony ended a good decade ago.

It's just taken the US a while to realise it.

 

Anyway, why are you so obsessively Amerophillic? Why would the UK, or any other power for that matter, do what the US does, or wants, just because they do? That's a level of bootlicking, brown-nosing arsetongery several orders of magnitude worse than anything the EU gets.

 

> Calls the EU "xenophobic"

> Refers to Europe as a "backwards mud hole"

 

I think you might need an education on what "xenohpobia" is.

What are the US' great achievements as a nation state, anyway?

If you're as xenophobic as the EU is, then you're backwards mud hole.

 

Why would UK be America First than EU First?

If you have to ask this, you don't understand why UK and US have that special relationship.

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38 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

If you're as xenophobic as the EU is, then you're backwards mud hole.

I mean the circular logic of "if A = B, then B = A" might be in fallible, but you've still not begun to explain why you think the EU is Xenophobic, or indeed how being Xenophobic makes you a mud hole?

If xenophobia is a prerequisite to being backwards, does that make you backwards too? Are you also therefore a mud hole?

 

39 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

If you have to ask this, you don't understand why UK and US have that special relationship.

Not this drivel again. I thought we'd covered it off about fifteen pages ago and was thankful when you'd stopped dribbling on about it.

I'd assumed, perhaps foolishly, that you'd realised that quoting literal WWII propaganda and being consistently wrong about the British and American legal, political, regulatory and economic systems, official languages, comparative freedom rankings, healthcare performance and the US' sordid history of state oppression, violence, harassment, unethical medical experimentation and rapidly declining political freedoms had dissuaded you from further discussion.

 

Apparently not, you just got temporarily bored of repeating yourself. 

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8 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

Not this drivel again. I thought we'd covered it off about fifteen pages ago and was thankful when you'd stopped dribbling on about it.

I'd assumed, perhaps foolishly, that you'd realised that quoting literal WWII propaganda and being consistently wrong about the British and American legal, political, regulatory and economic systems, official languages, comparative freedom rankings, healthcare performance and the US' sordid history of state oppression, violence, harassment, unethical medical experimentation and rapidly declining political freedoms had dissuaded you from further discussion.

I wasn't quoting any video when I remarked on the special relationship.

 

The EU, needs someone to stand up to it, why does America?

If the EU didn't need someone to stand up to them, they wouldn't have Brexit.

 

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1 minute ago, ilovebender.com said:

I wasn't quoting any video when I remarked on the special relationship.

I mean you were, and did, in the context of why you thought the "special relationship" was anything more than some warm public words that occasionally get wheeled out in public.

Bit of a funny contention to make mind given the list of other howlers that followed it there.

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6 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

I mean you were, and did, in the context of why you thought the "special relationship" was anything more than some warm public words that occasionally get wheeled out in public.

Bit of a funny contention to make mind given the list of other howlers that followed it there.

Ever seen a US President visit a UK Prime Minister and vice versa?

If they don't say special relationship then I owe you £20.

 

If an idea is as old as 1776, then what difference in 2019 does it make if it was spoken in 1941?

You don't understand the significance of that video.

That WWII video was speaking of truths shared much older than itself and truths that are still fact today on the verge of 2020.

 

It still doesn't explain why you want the UK to forget itself and its history and to be a part of the EU.

It explains you suffer from a learning difficulty if you dismiss a WWII video speaking timeless truth and a Brexit majority as - IDK how you justify it but you do and that's stupid. Probably think people were lied to or some other EU propaganda.

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11 minutes ago, sivispacem said:

Something about something like USA is bad and EU is better, some pathetic lie that forgets of Europe's history and present.

The fact is; you lost the referendum, you lost the election, and you're a lost Remainer leaving the EU.

If you somehow wasn't a loser, then why is Brexit happening and why is UK pushing to be closer with America?

If you think the EU's better than America, than you haven't been to America yet.

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I am not sure the United States and Great Britain were on good terms in 1776.

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9 minutes ago, Svip said:

I am not sure the United States and Great Britain were on good terms in 1776.

Well, Britain thanks America for a lesson learned in freedom that year.

I've been to Independence Hall in Philadelphia and seen what UK put there to thank America for teaching the British this ideal.

 

I like how people think EU's better than America without actually going to America to see for themselves.

It makes them look all the more brainwashed and less able to formulate their own opinion.

They're certain the EU's better and probably haven't left the EU in their lives yet.

Brexit is like taking the whole country out of the EU so they'd be able to see for themselves the difference of being inside the EU and being outside the EU.

You could liken it to taking the whole country to the airport and putting it on an 8 hour flight to the US.

Something's got to teach Remainers that the EU isn't the world.

I'm glad Brexit'll be the one to teach it.

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What did Britain learn from 1776, other than the fact that Lord North was a terrible prime minister?

Edited by Svip
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6 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

I like how people think EU's better than America without actually going to America to see for themselves.

It makes them look all the more brainwashed and less able to formulate their own opinion.

They're certain the EU's better and probably haven't left the EU in their lives yet.

This level of irony is simply not possible without just being a troll.

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1 minute ago, Svip said:

What did Britain learn from 1776, other than the fact that Lord North was a terrible prime minister?

That tyranny is bad.

 

It's no accident UK chose to learn from the American revolution.

 

It's there in Philadelphia, something the Queen put there in 1976 thanking them again on behalf of the British.

... I suggest every Brit visits it some time since travel broadens the mind and walking around Amsterdam is like walking around Croydon; I'd hardily call travel within the EU a broadening experience.

Just now, Bartleby said:

This level of irony is simply not possible without just being a troll.

You mean people who've not left the EU know what they're talking about based on what they've been told instead of seeing for themselves?

How is it that people who's never left the EU can automatically know the EU's better?

They clearly haven't been to America or wouldn't think the EU was better.

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Yes, let's neglect to mention that France gave the US the Statue of Liberty in 1876, and that France helped the new United States become independent.  If the US has a deep special relationship with any European country, France comes to mind first.  It's just not useful geopolitics these days.

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2 minutes ago, ilovebender.com said:

That tyranny is bad.

Ah yes. That's why suddenly all British kings became benevolent enlightened despots, right? That's why they stopped British imperialism at once, renounced all their colonies, and put democracy in place, right? That's why the famines that Britain caused in India were all natural and deserved and benevolent and not tyrannical at all, right?

 

Holy cow. Just when you think someone can't sink lower, they go and grab a massive shovel.

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9 minutes ago, Tchuck said:

Ah yes. That's why suddenly all British kings became benevolent enlightened despots, right? ...

Read what the Queen put there, understand the special relationship. Until then, you're ignorant.

 

 

Waits for people to visit America now, and until then, all I can say is; go; see it for yourselves.

 

9 minutes ago, Tchuck said:

That's why they stopped British imperialism at once, renounced all their colonies, and put democracy in place, right? That's why the famines that Britain caused in India were all natural and deserved and benevolent and not tyrannical at all, right?

It's like you're living in the dark ages.

 

You ever been to London?

 

You've not seen the statues at Parliament Square on this side of the pond?

The last one I saw go up was Nelson Mandela's and Thatcher called him a Terrorist.

However, you doubt our ability to learn and be grateful for lessons in freedom; because you're an idiot who wishes this was the EU after 2021.

 

With an EU threatening a UK ability to be competitive post Brexit, you seem to be for famines and servitude, so I don't know why you're all of a sudden pro freedom?

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