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Thoughts on this ban & whether bans are too severe for PC users.


Wildfire_08
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Hey guys,

 

So recently I switched over to playing GTAO on my laptop, as I got rid of my PS4 and GTA runs way better on my lappy anyway.

 

I was recently hit with a suspension for a month because I had Script Hook V or whatever still installed while trying to access online. This wasn't intentional, I was just installing the Lambo Reventon car mod in single player and then forgot to remove it before going online as I'm new to modding, especially games like GTA.

 

I'm not really mad about it, because it's only a month suspension, and it was my own fault as I just wasn't aware and should have been, but the bit that gets me is that they reset my character... like completely, rank everything.

 

My character rank was only about 120 something, and the money I had was around 20mil from my PS4 account transfer.

 

My copies of the game are all legit (PS3 digital store copy, PS4 digital store copy & a steam copy tied to my steam account obviously).

 

Anyway, I went to appeal the suspension (as you do) because I know you can appeal bans/suspension on console due to the report griefing trick and what not and they replied with the most nonsense reply I've read. Since when did R* customer service become so terrible? I swear it used to be relatively decent, but it looks like they also updated their policy to where bans/suspensions/resets are final (at least on PC)

 

My point is, especially compared to console users, isn't that a little harsh? Shouldn't they have better detection? I want to make it clear I never actually made it online when I had ScriptHook installed (I presume that's what caused it) as I got Disconnected, and then once I uninstalled it, and the game & reinstalled I was suspended... But I also own legitimate copies of the game which is easily proven, my accounts were legitimate transfers from PS4.

 

Fair enough if someone get's caught actually modding online, but it's whatever I suppose. Since playing on PC, the GTA community is far worse anyway, the modding is ridiculous in some sessions, people spawning 50 bodies on my character, and it doesn't feel as sociable or anywhere near as busy as consoles yet the ban/suspension feels way more restrictive.

 

It's not really important, I'm just not sure why there are still PC players on GTAO with the amount of things against it & with all suspensions/bans being final even if you just forget to uninstall something and don't actually do anything with it.

 

PC players, what do you think?

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It'd be better if the anti-cheat wasn't trash and needed to detect you actually using the mod before giving you any punishment IMO. Inadvertently going online while a menu installed and leaving before using is a little harsh, though it's still due to your error.

I do think that resetting characters upon first offence is too harsh.

Edited by D.B. Cooper
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I don't use Script Hook V so I don't have this issue. As for the community, I haven't expierenced "the console community", so I don't really kno... I mean I'm used to the PC community. But it's fine? :whistle:
Can't say those folks aren't sociable. Cheaters are annoying, yes.^^

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It'd be better if the anti-cheat wasn't trash and needed to detect you actually using the mod before giving you any punishment IMO. Inadvertently going online while a menu installed and leaving before using is a little harsh, though it's still due to your error.

I do think that resetting characters upon first offence is too harsh.

 

Yeah that was the part that got me really, when they responded it was some blanket "cut n paste" message saying all suspensions/bans/resets are final etc etc... and it's like "Hang on... I didn't even manage to connect online with ScriptHook, never used it online, and my character was actually legitimate, a transfer from PS4"

 

As I said I don't really have an issue with the 1 month suspension, it was my own error so it's whatever, but the reset just makes me wonder why people still play this game on PC.

 

I don't use Script Hook V so I don't have this issue. As for the community, I haven't expierenced "the console community", so I don't really kno... I mean I'm used to the PC community. But it's fine? :whistle:

Can't say those folks aren't sociable. Cheaters are annoying, yes.^^

The PC community to me (this is only on GTA, I'm not judging it on other games because I mainly play SPs) is just lackluster... There's nowhere near as many people, there's a lot more cheating as far as modders in game, which inadvertently prevents the level of griefers because the second you start to grief someone a modder starts setting your character on fire and throwing him up in the air or whatever until you leave online.
And then the anti-cheat measures seem to be askew because of the level of things that go on.
Idk, console GTA feels a lot more fun and lively, It took me ages to find a full lobby on PC whereas every lobby is rammed on consoles almost.
Edited by Wildfire_08
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I play in a close knit group for the most part, and if I do happen to make friends in pubs its very rare. It has a tendency to place me in sessions where people talk very foreign (at least to me, nonetheless.) which doesn't help the matter.

I haven't had as many run in with Skids as of late, save one that managed to give me 40k before I left the session.

 

Suppose it's what you decide to do with yourself.

 

As I've mentioned before this is the fault of the P2P infrastructure, nothing else. I'm sure a dedicated server system where you could chose what effects were in play (Snow/No snow, PVE/PVP, Skids allowed/No Skids, etc.) a lot of GTAOs community could improve. Not saying it will, but aslong as the groundwork for making an appealing game for several of the different player groups I'm sure a lot of the terrible playerbase could be solved.

 

 

I think also the underlying problem of the game as I've seen playing is that people have very different conceptions regarding what GTA is all about. How do you balance a game when you have several different groups of players that all want different things?

Some are stunters, racers. Others are PvPers, some are griefers, others are business oriented. Some make order, others make chaos.

This ensemble of variations in players goals and motives cause a massive clash in philosophy for designers, which result in often somewhat half-assed solutions that try to stimulate several at once averagely rather just a specific player group in mind.

 

That being said, there's little you can do, other than appeal. Skidding on PC is more commonplace, regretfully.

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Man, that really sucks. Have you tried contacting R* support via phone?

 

I've never played Online on PC and I refuse to. Just use my PC copy for mods and PS4 copy for online.

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Hey guys,

 

So recently I switched over to playing GTAO on my laptop, as I got rid of my PS4 and GTA runs way better on my lappy anyway.

 

I was recently hit with a suspension for a month because I had Script Hook V or whatever still installed while trying to access online. This wasn't intentional, I was just installing the Lambo Reventon car mod in single player and then forgot to remove it before going online as I'm new to modding, especially games like GTA.

 

I'm not really mad about it, because it's only a month suspension, and it was my own fault as I just wasn't aware and should have been, but the bit that gets me is that they reset my character... like completely, rank everything.

 

My character rank was only about 120 something, and the money I had was around 20mil from my PS4 account transfer.

 

My copies of the game are all legit (PS3 digital store copy, PS4 digital store copy & a steam copy tied to my steam account obviously).

 

Anyway, I went to appeal the suspension (as you do) because I know you can appeal bans/suspension on console due to the report griefing trick and what not and they replied with the most nonsense reply I've read. Since when did R* customer service become so terrible? I swear it used to be relatively decent, but it looks like they also updated their policy to where bans/suspensions/resets are final (at least on PC)

 

My point is, especially compared to console users, isn't that a little harsh? Shouldn't they have better detection? I want to make it clear I never actually made it online when I had ScriptHook installed (I presume that's what caused it) as I got Disconnected, and then once I uninstalled it, and the game & reinstalled I was suspended... But I also own legitimate copies of the game which is easily proven, my accounts were legitimate transfers from PS4.

 

Fair enough if someone get's caught actually modding online, but it's whatever I suppose. Since playing on PC, the GTA community is far worse anyway, the modding is ridiculous in some sessions, people spawning 50 bodies on my character, and it doesn't feel as sociable or anywhere near as busy as consoles yet the ban/suspension feels way more restrictive.

 

It's not really important, I'm just not sure why there are still PC players on GTAO with the amount of things against it & with all suspensions/bans being final even if you just forget to uninstall something and don't actually do anything with it.

 

PC players, what do you think?

 

What trick?

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What trick?

 

 

Oh.. It used to be that if you had 4 friends in a lobby and all 4 of you reported someone for hate speech they'd get banned within a few days and would have to appeal the ban so naturally people who knew about that, abused it by group reporting anyone that cheated in anyway such as hiding in wall breaches.

 

That's how I personally realised you could overturn a ban by going through an appeal on console, because a friend got group reported by us as a sort of experiment, (willingly of course).

 

Probably doesn't work anymore though.

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I'm not a PC player, but this whole "no appeals" thing seems way overboard - especially when I've heard of (from trustworthy people too) cases where the system gets it wrong, etc.

 

And at any rate, it could at least warn you to take off/out any mods you have, rather than letting you and then banning you when you don't even realize you've done anything wrong.

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I'm not a PC player, but this whole "no appeals" thing seems way overboard - especially when I've heard of (from trustworthy people too) cases where the system gets it wrong, etc.

 

And at any rate, it could at least warn you to take off/out any mods you have, rather than letting you and then banning you when you don't even realize you've done anything wrong.

this^

the game shouldn't even allow you to join online with script hook running or any other extra folders, simple as that.

Until they get their game under control it's also ridiculous to wipe characters and not allow an appeal, that stopped me from modding offline just in case I made the same mistake as OP.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't script hook disable the online mode? I agree it is too harsh to delete the character on the first offence.

Edited by TitanR1
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I'm not a PC player, but this whole "no appeals" thing seems way overboard - especially when I've heard of (from trustworthy people too) cases where the system gets it wrong, etc.

 

And at any rate, it could at least warn you to take off/out any mods you have, rather than letting you and then banning you when you don't even realize you've done anything wrong.

this^

the game shouldn't even allow you to join online with script hook running or any other extra folders, simple as that.

Until they get their game under control it's also ridiculous to wipe characters and not allow an appeal, that stopped me from modding offline just in case I made the same mistake as OP.

 

Yep, agree.

Thing that is really bad is that R* doesn't even look at your account when banning. In your case with a lvl120 char with a normal amount of money, it would've just taken them one quick glance that you just made a simple mistake and a warning would have sufficed.

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I'm not a PC player, but this whole "no appeals" thing seems way overboard - especially when I've heard of (from trustworthy people too) cases where the system gets it wrong, etc.

 

And at any rate, it could at least warn you to take off/out any mods you have, rather than letting you and then banning you when you don't even realize you've done anything wrong.

^100% This. Like in Skyrim where if you remove a mod then try to reload that save it detects & warns you that a script or texture is missing.

 

I dont play on PC, but read somewhere that theres a third party mod manager for GTAV that does this, or at least has an online vs. offline profile switch?

I'm not a PC player, but this whole "no appeals" thing seems way overboard - especially when I've heard of (from trustworthy people too) cases where the system gets it wrong, etc.

 

And at any rate, it could at least warn you to take off/out any mods you have, rather than letting you and then banning you when you don't even realize you've done anything wrong.

^100% This. Like in Skyrim where if you remove a mod then try to reload that save it detects & warns you that a script or texture is missing.

 

I dont play on PC, but read somewhere that theres a third party mod manager for GTAV that does this, or at least has an online vs. offline profile switch?

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Whenever I load ScriptHook, I make sure to set -scOfflineOnly in the program launch options, so I won't inadvertently go to online mode with it loaded. Since I need to exit the game and clear that option in order to go into online, it makes sure I remember to disable ScriptHook too.

 

ScriptHook is sabotaged so the game will not load in online mode while it is active, but evidently R* anti-cheat will sometimes catch it during the load process before ScriptHook kills the client. That feature of ScriptHook was supposed to protect you from this kind of thing happening. You would think R* could implement an exception in their anti-cheat that would not flag the account if the online session was never fully established, but evidently they just don't care.

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FrugalDangerMan

I'm not a PC player, but this whole "no appeals" thing seems way overboard - especially when I've heard of (from trustworthy people too) cases where the system gets it wrong, etc.

 

And at any rate, it could at least warn you to take off/out any mods you have, rather than letting you and then banning you when you don't even realize you've done anything wrong.

Companies inact zero tolerance policies for stuff like this because it saves them time and money.

 

They were spending too much time dealing with the ban hammer emails (both legit and false reports) and appeals to the decisions that it became too much. So, blanket ban policy was initiated.

 

Does it accidentally catch innocent players? Yep, but the percentage is low. Acceptable losses basically.

 

The good players and good cheaters are too smart to get caught. The rest can get bent per the terms of service.

 

-- i work for a company with similar policies.

Edited by PNutterSammich
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SkylineGTRFreak

Whenever I load ScriptHook, I make sure to set -scOfflineOnly in the program launch options, so I won't inadvertently go to online mode with it loaded. Since I need to exit the game and clear that option in order to go into online, it makes sure I remember to disable ScriptHook too.

 

ScriptHook is sabotaged so the game will not load in online mode while it is active, but evidently R* anti-cheat will sometimes catch it during the load process before ScriptHook kills the client. That feature of ScriptHook was supposed to protect you from this kind of thing happening. You would think R* could implement an exception in their anti-cheat that would not flag the account if the online session was never fully established, but evidently they just don't care.

Ah good to know. Was just about to say: doesn't scripthook crash the app to prevent this?

Thanks for clearing it up. Looks like I was lucky one or two times^^

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Well, ScriptHook V is made so it crashes the game when you go Online. For me it always did and I never lost character. It just crashed the game and at first I didn't even know why it crashed, then I realised it is because of the ScriptHook's design. It is made to prevent you getting into trouble, I don't know why it allow you go online, though.

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Character wipe upon the first ban is quite harsh, yes.

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Whenever I load ScriptHook, I make sure to set -scOfflineOnly in the program launch options, so I won't inadvertently go to online mode with it loaded. Since I need to exit the game and clear that option in order to go into online, it makes sure I remember to disable ScriptHook too.

 

ScriptHook is sabotaged so the game will not load in online mode while it is active, but evidently R* anti-cheat will sometimes catch it during the load process before ScriptHook kills the client. That feature of ScriptHook was supposed to protect you from this kind of thing happening. You would think R* could implement an exception in their anti-cheat that would not flag the account if the online session was never fully established, but evidently they just don't care.

Ah good to know. Was just about to say: doesn't scripthook crash the app to prevent this?

Thanks for clearing it up. Looks like I was lucky one or two times^^

 

Yes, ScriptHook crashes the game when you go online. Before that retarded and f*cked up ban-policy came, i once forgot to remove

the ScriptHook and of course, my game crashed and I remember I forgot to move it out of the game folder.

But the way how R* handles ban-policies is simply way too overboard and too harash.

Resetting character on first offence? ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME??? I had a spare account with only 9million in the bank and a measily lvl 58.

The only car I had was the armored Kuruma for in heists to earn money and doing races to unlock LSC paints and upgrades: BAN!

You can't do sh*t with 9mil cash and people will think you suck and don't know to play GTA with rank 58....

 

That happened without Scripthook. I stopped playing GTA with mods in SP for 7 months.

Edited by SilverRST
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ClaudeSpeed1911

It is harsh, Rockstar has enough money to please everyone, sp dlc, better security, mod support. They can do all of this but it seems its not worth the effort to them. Plus its much better if people get banned so they have to buy the game again to play it. Trust me that happens more than it seems.

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Black-Dragon96

 

 

It's not really important, I'm just not sure why there are still PC players on GTAO with the amount of things against it & with all suspensions/bans being final even if you just forget to uninstall something and don't actually do anything with it.

 

PC players, what do you think?

The only reasons are that i dont have a console and that im not willing to pay money to a company to play my legaly bought game with my own W-Lan.

 

And yes i definitly agree that the new banning policies are to harsh.

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Whenever I load ScriptHook, I make sure to set -scOfflineOnly in the program launch options, so I won't inadvertently go to online mode with it loaded. Since I need to exit the game and clear that option in order to go into online, it makes sure I remember to disable ScriptHook too.

 

ScriptHook is sabotaged so the game will not load in online mode while it is active, but evidently R* anti-cheat will sometimes catch it during the load process before ScriptHook kills the client. That feature of ScriptHook was supposed to protect you from this kind of thing happening. You would think R* could implement an exception in their anti-cheat that would not flag the account if the online session was never fully established, but evidently they just don't care.

Ah good to know. Was just about to say: doesn't scripthook crash the app to prevent this?

Thanks for clearing it up. Looks like I was lucky one or two times^^

Scripthook crashes the game with 3 ping signals, when you try to get Online with it.

 

I have another worry: when you toy around in Director Mode with mods and try to activate MP stuff like your character or load interiors, do Online flags get activated, that may cause you trouble with Rockstars anti-cheat detector?

 

We probably won't get to know from Rockstar, which flags these are and support will probably refer to not use third-party-software.

In such case we should probably ask preventively, if we still can be banned using mods offline and refer to Rockstars official statement of non-ban policy for Offline mods.

 

For OpenIV team, i would wish that they could implement a big green "ScriptHook Active" status display and additional warning that one should better deactivate ScriptHook when closing OpenIV.

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Black-Dragon96

There was something that Ubisoft did right that Rockstar could use.

For Anno 2070 they made a so called modding detector. As soon as you modifyed a file of your game this modding detector automaticly switched the game into offline mode. You were not able to use any online features as long as it was active, the game did not even show a multiplayer button.

It was bypased by the anno cookie since people wanted to use the ark for there singleplayer games and play together with their modded games. But even with the bypass you were only able to connect to people who used the same mods.

 

 

Rockstar could do the same for gta 5.

Simply have a security tool that turns the game to offline mode, as soon as you modify a file or run scripthook. It would make accidenly connecting to online with mods running impossible.

If someone would bypass this security tool it would be his own fault if he get banned and he would deserve it to get permanently banned.

 

For the other part: It would be much better if a temp ban would not delete your progress. Software makes mistakes and because of that the is the chance the innocents get banned. The old system with two temp bans and a perm after that was better.

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DarkSavageDeathlyCloud

The punishment is about right, but how the system decides who gets banned is wrong.
If they just banned the people actually using mods online....honestly...those people deserve everything they get, and more....but again, rockstar is incompetent and is not banning all script kids and cheats, their current policy is vague and contradicting in some ways and there are even reports of bad bans were innocent people might have been banned.

Also their automated responses...they are sh*t.
Anyone old enough and not mentally challenged will in most cases relize pretty soon they are talking to robots

Edited by Darth Absentis
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PC should haves it own free mod servers.. But R* = No fun allowed/cash cards pleeeze

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...My point is, especially compared to console users, isn't that a little harsh? Shouldn't they have better detection? I want to make it clear I never actually made it online when I had ScriptHook installed (I presume that's what caused it) as I got Disconnected, and then once I uninstalled it, and the game & reinstalled I was suspended... But I also own legitimate copies of the game which is easily proven, my accounts were legitimate transfers from PS4.

 

Fair enough if someone get's caught actually modding online, but it's whatever I suppose. Since playing on PC, the GTA community is far worse anyway, the modding is ridiculous in some sessions, people spawning 50 bodies on my character, and it doesn't feel as sociable or anywhere near as busy as consoles yet the ban/suspension feels way more restrictive.

 

It's not really important, I'm just not sure why there are still PC players on GTAO with the amount of things against it & with all suspensions/bans being final even if you just forget to uninstall something and don't actually do anything with it.

 

PC players, what do you think?

in all fairness, the bans are not to severe on pc players, its the same punishment for all platforms...

 

i know people on ps4 that have got their account banned and their character wiped.

 

shouldnt they have a better detection system? sure some people slip through the cracks with the current one but overall, seem a bit effective, just need to look in the mirror if you want proof of it effectiveness.

 

many people claim they when online with "X mod installed but it doesnt work in online" or "its only a visual mod" and stuff like that but at the end of the day only the user know what their intentions were, R* cant create a system that detect the intentions of the users.

 

i'd be mad if i get banned for using official mods on the game, but since there are no official mods for this game, pc players can only blame themselves when they get banned!

Jjmj1r5.png

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Yeah, they are super harsh on PC players And yes their support is up there with the worst.

I'm mobile right now so can't go into detail, I'll write a follow up if I remember.

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Seems a little fishy... What i've heard is that those type of script disable online by default... So... Yeah..

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GTA Online on PC is like a hit-and-miss with an explosive sniper bullet

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Thats a real bummer, but a ban is a ban and 99% of the time, rightfully so.

 

Should have done a little more research before "modifying" your game, snowflake.

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