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Zello

A Female protagonist?

What is your favourite citrus fruit?  

86 members have voted

  1. 1. What is your favourite citrus fruit?

    • Lemon [img=http://i.imgur.com/0zn9fN9.jpg]
      32
    • Lime [Like a lemon but less red]
      13
    • Buddha's Fingers [img=http://i.imgur.com/yPwsXmS.jpg]
      4
    • Other [img=http://i.imgur.com/rTiyhhj.jpg]
      37


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universetwisters

Because having the majority of enemies female has absolutely nothing to do with having a female protagonist and you're literally the only one bringing it up in an attempt to derail the topic and justify your sexism.

Edited by universetwisters

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TheHumanIsland

A group of bank robbing women like in the 2004 Taxi movie.

2ekjd5t.jpg

 

My post will be very reasonable and full of seriously good points, even if it doesn't seem like it all the time, it covers pretty much all the bases and is a bit more intelligent than the stereotypical responses or binary yes-or-no - this is a "it can work great, OR fail miserably" post:

 

 

This image of those women, to me, that you posted, is exactly what most people would hate and would not fit GTA. It's gotta be a lot more authentic than these hollywood things - yes, GTA is hollywood like in the male way, but even hollywood itself is a joke when it comes to portrayal of women. It just is a completely different philosophy than GTA and rockstar put, they hate that fake way hollywood lies to women and gets them hurt in real life.

 

If we have a girl, she needs to be alongside a male (bonnie and clyde) or males (like the random encounter where the girl plays her role - manipulate you to help her, while her two boys wait and do the dirty work when you follow her).

 

It can't be this charlies angels, feminist agenda crap - it would be like kill bill, which would basically be saints row, it's horrible. Let her be a real criminal girl like Liz on GTA IV. But remember - Liz sends Niko, Packie, and even Playboy to go do GTA things, she does not do GTA things herself... just like real life... You don't see this stuff in real life, so in a game which CANNOT take the liberties a movie can and already is inherently unauthentic (eat hot dogs to heal, sleep it off, carry 30 different guns the size of bazooka in pockets), they NEED everything lore wise to feel authentic, or else it becomes saints row crap.

 

GTA is nothing without the authenticity feeling - the believability of the lore, fighting against the fakeness of the "video game world" it takes place in.

 

Set it off girls might be better:

 

I7MYLAP.jpg

 

But that seems too fake, too.

 

You could only even really believe Latifa was real in that, and even her, even in her rap career, you could tell she was just the female ice cube (and ice t, after they both got rich) and was just an actor playing a musician at that point, like 2Pac or something. That;s why 2pac wasn't used to base Carl Johnson on, and he was OG Loc instead. That's why will smith was fed to the fishes, and carl was realistic though, even with all the video gamey fake things that happened (break into area 51, steal harrier from carrier ship, etc)

 

It has to be realistic, and hollywood is not a good place to find realistic.

 

Snoop from the wire is a real one, in and out of movies, she was a true thug. And a psychotic individual who battled and conquered many demons in her life. But she is brought up often enough and exclusively enough that it shows you just how fake it would feel in a game based on stereotypical statistics. She is a "One in a billion" woman, whereas Niko, Carl, Tommy, these guys are a dime a dozen, in a world of millions of dollars - it works because they are commonplace. This is why it's so hard to sell a woman.

 

BUT - let that woman be part of a crew of 3 (like the junkies near lester's house where the girl lures in a FEMALE role to the men who commit MALE ROLE acts once you follow her there) or more characters (think weapon wheel character switching instead of just the three), THEN it can work,

 

Not only could it work perfectly like that, but it would be revolutionary for the series. It would bring a new type of realistic, authentic gameplay.

 

Just as much as Trevor is the worst of the worst hillbilly meth head/dealer, just as Michael is a totally believable scumbag traitor "successfully retired" criminal, just as Frank and CJ are believable hood homies from each of their respective eras in LA timelime, a realistic woman AND "gta-worthy" protagonist would have to be a prostitute, a crack whore -

 

If you want a girl for GTA, she would need to be like Tonya or Liz, it can't be some Lara Croft, Cameron Diaz, it can't be this high-dollar dressing fake hollywood feminist sh*t, it just can't. It would undermine the series, and the majority of the fans.

 

It can't be that fake stuff, and it's the HD era, or rather "III-era characters = just movie characters to the new gen guys" said Houser - which is why it can't be Catalina style either, cause she was just a movie character to these realistic characters like Mike, Niko, Frank, and Trevor.

Edited by TheHumanIsland

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Pink Pineapple

Because having the majority of enemies female has absolutely nothing to do with having a female protagonist. Again, nice strawman ya got.

 

We're discussing the genders of GTA characters. It's related.

 

We all know why you keep avoiding answering my questions. You're scared to give an honest answer.

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Zello

We're discussing the genders of GTA characters. It's related.

No it's not this thread is about discussing a female protagonist you're over here arguing about female criminal organizations that has nothing to do with the thread.

 

Can we stay on topic before this ends up getting locked

Edited by Zello

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universetwisters

We're discussing the genders of GTA characters. It's related.

We all know why you keep avoiding answering my questions. You're scared to give an honest answer.

 

 

Why would I be scared of an honest answer? Your questions about entire gangs of females have nothing to do with the possibility of one female protagonist that you're so adamantly against. But going back to the point you brought up about it before:

 

 

 

If you want a female protagonist, then you should also be okay with mostly female antagonists.

 

Did you forget about Catalina from GTA 3?

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Pink Pineapple

 

No it's not this thread is about discussing a female protagonist you're over here arguing about female criminal organizations that has nothing to do with the thread.

 

Can we stay on topic before this ends up getting locked

 

 

The arguments for and against female antagonists can also apply to a female protagonist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why would I be scared of an honest answer? Your questions about entire gangs of females have nothing to do with the possibility of one female protagonist that you're so adamantly against. But going back to the point you brought up about it before:

 

 

 

If you want a female protagonist, then you should also be okay with mostly female antagonists.

 

Did you forget about Catalina from GTA 3?

 

 

And once again, universetwisters does his best to avoid answering the question. Shocking! :lol:

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~Tiger~

Quit with the petty bickering.

 

Debate reasonably and take the personal comments to PM.

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universetwisters

And once again, you're avoiding the point I'm making. So what was the question again, something about if you would prefer if all the gangs/organizations in the game were run by women? I don't know how you came to that conclusion out of a question about whether or not female protagonists should be in GTA or not. If anything, it's a ridiculous extreme that's just making you look like an ass of yourself.

"Do you really want jetpacks in the next GTA? What if EVERY vehicle in the next GTA is a jetpack? Do you still want jetpacks in the next GTA game? That would be unrealistic!"

That's literally the sort of argument you're making.

 

E. Tiger ninja'd me.

Edited by universetwisters

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Carbonox

Just my 2 cents re: the realism argument, even though the gameplay has always been unrealistic to varying degrees, it doesn't mean the developers shouldn't aim for an authentic setting.

 

That involves an almost wholly male criminal underworld - as has been seen throughout the series - with little room for a believable female protagonist that isn't severely underpowered against the men she'd sooner or later end up fighting with.

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slimeball supreme

>females have never ever associated with any street gang

If you think that then okay.

 

And was his relationship with Tanisha really that important to where it was a whole character trait? It was only mentioned a few times, it wasn't like his entire story was getting back together with her. It's like you're grasping for straws just for an argument.

>females havent been in the best positions in the crips and street gang culture is notoriously sexist

>females have never associated with any street gang

aight fam cool cool

 

also, you said 'basically nothing'. but what i did is say something that changed

listen to ingame dialogue between franklin and lamar, the extra phone calls, even f*cking SWITCH SCENES. the whole motivation for a lot of his actions, i.e. becoming more professional, was to try and impress tanisha

mate

Edited by Mr. Fartenhate

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Fuzzknuckles

Just my 2 cents re: the realism argument, even though the gameplay has always been unrealistic to varying degrees, it doesn't mean the developers shouldn't aim for an authentic setting.

 

That involves an almost wholly male criminal underworld - as has been seen throughout the series - with little room for a believable female protagonist that isn't severely underpowered against the men she'd sooner or later end up fighting with.

And yet throughout history there have been many, many interesting female criminals and even gang bosses that have been largely ignored by a male-dominated society, despite "achieving" more than many of the most famous criminals of our times. Which is strange when you think that men are actually the minority of the population of the planet.

 

 

 

a believable female protagonist that isn't severely underpowered against the men she'd sooner or later end up fighting with.

Physical strength is almost meaningless in a gun fight, no?

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slimeball supreme

And yet throughout history there have been many, many interesting female criminals and even gang bosses that have been largely ignored by a male-dominated society, despite "achieving" more than many of the most famous criminals of our times.

[citation needed]

 

can you really name a crime boss more influential and interesting than the likes of bugsy siegel, meyer lansky, al capone, frank nitti, mickey cohen, and wayyy more. as someone who has a genuine interest in crime and gangs this statement is almost certainly false

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Fuzzknuckles

Griselda Blanco and Sandra Beltran are the first two that spring to mind. And if you want someone like Trevor, or that puts Trevor's "ooh wacky psycho" act to shame, how about Countess Bathory?

Edited by Fuzzknuckles

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slimeball supreme

Griselda Blanco and Sandra Beltran are the first two that spring to mind. And if you want someone like Trevor, or that puts Trevor's "ooh wacky psycho" act to shame, how about Countess Bathory?

>countess balthory

are you f*cking kidding me she was a SERIAL KILLER THAT DIED IN THE 1600S

 

sandra beltran isn't even that interesting (her wikipedia page is smaller than my screen) and we've already talked about griselda blanco in this thread and many others. again not nearly as 'interesting' or 'successful' as the guy who rigged the world series or the dude who was able to unite all 5 of new york's crime syndicates into one commission.

Edited by Mr. Fartenhate

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universetwisters

listen to ingame dialogue between franklin and lamar, the extra phone calls, even f*cking SWITCH SCENES. the whole motivation for a lot of his actions, i.e. becoming more professional, was to try and impress tanisha

mate

 

You mean the dialogue and phone calls that play absolutely no relevance to the game and could easily be replaced by something else and other than the dialogue nothing would change? Also I don't think him being more professional was strictly to impress Tanisha, if anything it was more to get out of the ghetto.

 

>Sandra Beltran's wikipedia page is smaller than my screen

 

You must have a pretty huge screen then. If you want something with a lot more MEAT to it, give this serial killer from my town a read. Bonus points because it wasn't from 400 years ago.

 

>not as interesting as the guy who rigged the world series

 

Because white collar crime is what we want the most out of GTA I hope

Edited by universetwisters

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Pink Pineapple

^

Even if you could change a bunch of things and replace Franklin with a woman, what would be the point? What's to gain?

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universetwisters

What's to gain with a character as sh*tty as Franklin to begin with? He's the easiest to replace with anything out of the three GTA protagonists.

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Pink Pineapple

What's to gain with a character as sh*tty as Franklin to begin with? He's the easiest to replace with anything out of the three GTA protagonists.

 

And once again, universetwisters can't give an honest answer and avoids the question.

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ARTHUR.

Grand Theft Auto is fiction anyway.

If Tarantino can write some cool, interesting female leads I reckon R* has a chance also.

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universetwisters

 

What's to gain with a character as sh*tty as Franklin to begin with? He's the easiest to replace with anything out of the three GTA protagonists.

 

And once again, universetwisters can't give an honest answer and avoids the question.

 

I did, you're just choosing to ignore it.

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piko

Tbh I wouldn't mind if the female was strong woman and interesting personality like Remy Hadley in House (been in prison, can stand up to men in fights)

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(Ambient)

@@Pink Pineapple, if you're whining about a female protagonist (or a strong female character in general) a lot, can you write in what roles you see women in GTA?

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Pink Pineapple

 

 

What's to gain with a character as sh*tty as Franklin to begin with? He's the easiest to replace with anything out of the three GTA protagonists.

 

And once again, universetwisters can't give an honest answer and avoids the question.

 

I did, you're just choosing to ignore it.

 

 

Gee, I must have missed it! Kindly give us the link to the post in which you clearly explained the reasons to change Franklin's character to a female and how that would improve the game.

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(Ambient)

^ Can you answer the question I asked you?

 

@@Pink Pineapple, if you're whining about a female protagonist (or a strong female character in general) a lot, can you write in what roles you see women in GTA?

Edited by Phnx.

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universetwisters

 

 

 

What's to gain with a character as sh*tty as Franklin to begin with? He's the easiest to replace with anything out of the three GTA protagonists.

 

And once again, universetwisters can't give an honest answer and avoids the question.

 

I did, you're just choosing to ignore it.

 

 

Gee, I must have missed it! Kindly give us the link to the post in which you clearly explained the reasons to change Franklin's character to a female and how that would improve the game.

 

 

I never said changing Franklin's character would improve the game. I'm saying that, if you were to change him as a female, largely nothing would change other than the backstory.

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Pink Pineapple

@@Pink Pineapple, if you're whining about a female protagonist (or a strong female character in general) a lot, can you write in what roles you see women in GTA?

 

As a playable character, only as part of a multiple protagonist game and she'd have to be physically weaker than most of the men she fights. In a fist fight against a male, she should lose most of the time.

 

If she's like that Snoop woman people keep referring to, then she can be involved in the violent acts in the game and still be convincing. However, if you're going to have a woman who looks and acts manly, why have a woman?

 

If she's more feminine, then she could be used for things like driving, spying, or hacking. I don't want any Hollywood crap like a hot chick in a sports bra driving a getaway car though. It has to be believable.

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Charlottes

I'd really like a female protagonist, that would be more relatable for me...It kind of sucks having these boring dudes as the story mode guys and like...I don't know if Rockstar specifically has the chops to not mess this up because their track records pretty bad? But it would be nice to see them make any kind of effort into writing instead of doing the same thing theyve been doing for years

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KertFaceMan

no offense, but i honestly f*cking hate how much times this has been made, let R* do whatever fits better.

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slimeball supreme

[extra dialogue that adds to the story and is pretty relevant if you want to uncover character motivation ISNT IMPORTANT]

sure my dude

 

>Sandra Beltran's wikipedia page is smaller than my screen

 

You must have a pretty huge screen then. If you want something with a lot more MEAT to it, give this serial killer from my town a read. Bonus points because it wasn't from 400 years ago.

aileen wuronous not only doesn't fit the criteria of 'interesting criminal' or 'successful crime boss', but she's also not even in the top 50 most interesting serial killers

 

>not as interesting as the guy who rigged the world series

Because white collar crime is what we want the most out of GTA I hope

not what i or fuzzknuckles were getting at my dude. he was saying that there were far more interesting female criminals than people like al capone, lansky, lucky luciano. that is far from the truth. faarrr. those people have done more and are more culturally relevant than a run of the mill cartel boss and the mentor of a far more interesting criminal because they were way f*cking cooler, not because of like men and sh*t??

 

also don't tell me that rigging the World Series wouldn't be cool as f*ck thing in gta. that is bullsh*t and we both know it

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Mister Pink

Again, we can all chose examples of females that may fit a role in a GTA but it's kind of the exception, not the rule. So it doesn't fix the issue with for many of us, that would be a stretch of the imagination when it comes to the believability factor.

 

As Universal Twisters said, I could deal with it in a 3 character scenario or like TheHumanIsland says, her role may be that as an accompaniment to a male such as the junkie that lures you to the burning house (I think that was the excuse) and it was a stick up. That kind of deceptive female sociopath is just more believable for me than say any of the gameplay that one may have with a female character in GTA Online. The running around with heavy artillery, throwing grenades and firing RPGS. It can be argued that what I just mentioned is unrealistic in itself but to be honest (and this is anecdotal and not really an argument but more of a personal observation) I've never seen a woman fire an RPG. Not saying they can't or wont. It's just an extreme example.

 

Seeing a woman running around in GTA they way I currently do, would look iffy to me. It all ready looks iffy when I'm running a heist with females, just doesn't seem plausible. No examples of women committing crimes is going to sway me because as mentioned before 93% of inmates in the US are male. If I'm going to play as such a minority criminal committing crimes that only a super criminal could do to begin with, I'm just more happy to swallow that story of if a male in the centre of action. And those females Online are usually "sexy" they're male-fantasy designed Online characters, far-removed from reality. I even uglied up my character as because I'm tired of square-jawed handsome character. Just Google-Image search 'Mugshots' and most people look worse for wear or downright ugly with very few exceptions. That's the real face of criminality on the streets. Hardship, drug abuse, broken-homes, alcoholism, not women in make-up and skirts. :p It's the lowest common denominator and maybe I can understand if people are bored and want to break away from the norm. But right now I don't think it's broke, so I don't think it needs fixing.

 

And yes, there are plenty of meathead sh*tty male characters in videogames, what makes one think that if they write a female they wont f*ck it up just as bad? I couldn't play a GTA if she was female and they f*cked up her character. It would be a double-blow to the plausibility scale.

 

My thoughts are that of course we can have a female protagonist. But I would prefer not to have one at least not in a "complete/dedicated" GTA. It would be a huge risk for reasons I just mentioned.

 

And when conceptualizing a story, who starts off with the sex/gender to begin with? Unless you're Paul Feig it wouldn't happen unless it was some gender-studies student or feminist or something :p.

 

Seriously though and bottom line for me is, I'm sure when conceptualizing the story, they're thinking of the general theme/premise, Mafioso released from prison gets sent to Miami to set up shop, ex-soldier from war-torn country joins his cousin in a move to the US, ex-gangbnger returns home and tries to fit in with his old homies from the neighborhood. I don't think Rockstar are really thinking male or female. I imagine they just default to the the overwhelming majority side sex which is dealing in drugs, which are kingpins in the underworld, the guys getting killed on the streets, the guys perpetrating this culture. When Rockstar start thinking that they need the have a female for the sake of diversity or even if they start conceptualizing the story and they start off with the sex first and building a story around that, then the series is a officially dead to me.

 

I just hope they keep on writing stories and we still a have a single-player. 3 Characters in GTA was a bit of a novelty for me. A female character would be a bit of a novelty for me too. 3 Characters and 2 men and woman is will be a real novelty. I would be curious to see what it's like but also be thinking Rockstar have kind of lost their priorities when It find police AI, multiple cities and and a more evolved combat system more pressing than multiple characters or changing the sex of the lead role.

 

Also, I hate to argue for denying of things in a GTA. The more things we could have the better. I think SP at 100% reward unlocks full character customization which you could then bring Online. Imagine being able to then roleplay with your fully customized character after.

Edited by Mister Pink

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