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Colonel _Cortez

How and when did Sonny convinced Lance to work for him against Tommy?

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Colonel _Cortez

How and when did Sonny convince* Lance to work for him against Tommy?

 

What do you think? Why would Lance trust Sonny if he couldn't even trust Tommy?

Edited by Colonel _Cortez

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gluserty

I have a theory that Lance was hired by Sonny behind the scenes to watch over Tommy and report to him the entire time (that's why when Sonny called Tommy he seemed to know exactly what Tommy was up to at the time). Then, like as Sonny said in the beginning of the game, he traveled down south to Vice City to claim his slice (nothing nice or quiet about it), and that was the moment when Lance showed his true colors.

By just following the events of the story though, then I'd have to say that Lance betrayed Tommy after Tommy capped Sonny's collectors, but I still like my theory, since otherwise what was it that that Sonny said that would make Lance trust him, unless he was already working for him?

Edited by gluserty

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ClaudeIzABadAzz

I reckon he was recruited by Sonny around the time where Tommy kept getting calls from Lance about how he feels mistreated. Roughly around the time of the mission 'Cop Land'.

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SMACKED!

Some guys close to the them probably gathered Sonny some information and Lance got known about it, probably Sonny some day gave Lance the cokehead a call and Lance went forward to it.

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CXS

Who cares i just changed Diaz and Leo skin with lance to kill lance three times

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Paul72

I'm guessing that Rosenberg stupidly gave away Sonny's number to Lance and Lance was able to call Sonny and squeal on Tommy to him. That's my theory.

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CarlsonRe

Lance was feeling paranoid if he's not gonna get betrayed himself by Vercetti, his calls to him (for example after Cop Land) is proof. So he decided to talk with Sonny and set up Tommy.

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gluserty

Sometimes I forget about that Kent Paul phone call in which he tells Tommy to watch his back and that bragging is a mug's game, which happens before Lance gets upset at Tommy, but that particular phone call is another reason why I believe the whole situation was bought and sold all along.

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Pavle

His betrayal starts sometime after they overthrew Diaz. Lance is irritated by Tommy's dominance in the "partnership".Tommy never gave any credit to Lance, always bashed on him for his mistakes, etc. I guess he was offered a better deal by Sonny, and he took it.

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DragonpokeZ

Here's my theory: After the beginning exchange, which was setup by Diaz and Sonny and blah blah, Lance went after the thugs that were hiding behind the crates, caught one of them, and he squealed everything - including Tommy's status in VC. So then, he calls Sonny looking for revenge or at least some form of redemption (and we all know Lance is reckless like that), and Sonny responds by giving him a simple task: Help Tommy. His job is to follow him and help him get setup in VC, so that later Sonny could either get a cut in Tommy's business or take Tommy out altogether and leave Lance in charge, since Sonny knew Diaz (VC's 'boss' at the time) was very unstable. At some point, Sonny tells Lance that it was only Diaz who set them up, while Tommy also starts to find out. So, Lance goes up with Sonny and Sonny decides that Diaz is a threat to the business, so Sonny instructs Lance to take him out. At that point, Lance the cokehead sees the opportunity to take over Vice City for himself and leave Tommy out of the business, so he recklessly tries to take over Diaz's business - Death Row. When questioned, he just puts up the excuse about how Diaz killed his brother and blah blah. So then, Lance decides he's going to need Tommy for a while, which leads to Rub Out. Once Tommy and Lance start getting the business set up, Lance starts liking the job, and thinks about betraying Sonny instead of Tommy, but due to how Tommy treats Lance he finally decides to side up with Sonny and give him all the information about Tommy's business, events which Lance hints to via his phone calls. Then, Sonny sends his collectors, Tommy takes them all out, and Lance starts worrying that he made the wrong choice, so he tells Sonny to come heavily armed to take Tommy out. When Sonny comes with a whole gang of mafia members, he sees the opportunity there to openly go for Sonny, and therefore makes his betrayal open. Then, Lance, Sonny and the whole f*cking mafia get killed by Tommy, and everyone tells Tommy that he shouldn't have trusted Lance. Why? Because while Tommy was focused on building the empire, everyone else was observing how suspicious Lance looked. He probably even told Kent Paul that he was going to take over just before the events of Death Row. But Tommy was too busy building his business to look after his partner.

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xNCx

enemy of my enemy is my friend

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gluserty

Sounds good, DragonpokeZ; I don't think Lance was able to shakedown any of those gunmen from Viceport, but due to the retroactive events of Vice City Stories, Lance probably had a pretty good idea that Diaz sabotaged the deal, since he was the big player. Everything you said really fits though, especially in regards to how Lance would go about handling things, his overall goals, and switching from one side to another. All very likely.

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Wolff

He was obviously feeling underappreciated, not given the trust and responsibility he feels he deserves. This is confirmed by several calls he gives. Sonny probably offered him something that made him feel 'more important'.

Edited by Wolff

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Bamboozle

No theory is needed, the story is as straightforward as it gets. After the events of VCS where Lance and his brother Vic came to the top, they went into hiding outside Vice City. In VC 1986, they came to Vice City to do a deal with the Forellis. The Forellis wanted cocaine to expand their business with Tommy down south. Neither of the parties knew about the upcoming ambush set up by Diaz. Victor was one of the people who were killed in the ambush.

 

Tommy, Ken and Lance are the only survivors of the ambush. Since Tommy lost the money and didn't get the drugs, he had to start from negative and find out who's behind the ambush. Lance helps him because he also wants to know who's behind the ambush to avenge his brother.

 

They eventually find out it's Diaz. Although he knew about the Diaz brothers, he didn't know it was them during the deal and called an ambush. They had the suspicion but decided to work for him for a while to confirm that. Lance tried to kill him but failed. They then kill Diaz and take over the business.

 

Lance felt paranoid and feared that he would be under Tommy's shadow. He also didn't like being called Lance Vance Dance.

After that, the game never said how or when Sonny was able to contact Lance. It is likely he didn't turn on Sonny's side until the very end because if he worked for him earlier Sonny would already know it's counterfeit money Tommy was giving him but no, he didn't know until Lance told him. He might have knew the mafia was coming and went to them.

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DragonpokeZ

It is likely he didn't turn on Sonny's side until the very end because if he worked for him earlier Sonny would already know it's counterfeit money Tommy was giving him but no, he didn't know until Lance told him. He might have knew the mafia was coming and went to them.

I'm pretty sure it's implied in the cutscene of Keep Your Friends Close... that Sonny DID know Tommy was just giving him counterfeit money. Also it just feels really out of place that all of a sudden a little paranoia and insecurity drives Lance to backstab Tommy and try to kill him

Edited by DragonpokeZ

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Bamboozle

 

It is likely he didn't turn on Sonny's side until the very end because if he worked for him earlier Sonny would already know it's counterfeit money Tommy was giving him but no, he didn't know until Lance told him. He might have knew the mafia was coming and went to them.

I'm pretty sure it's implied in the cutscene of Keep Your Friends Close... that Sonny DID know Tommy was just giving him counterfeit money. Also it just feels really out of place that all of a sudden a little paranoia and insecurity drives Lance to backstab Tommy and try to kill him

 

Oh ok I rewatched it.You're right.

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AB7035

The Lance only wanted revenge of the killing of his brother Victor Vance by those three killer in intro behind the crates(sent by Diaz).

Its prove is the Mission named as "DEATH ROW" ,in which Diaz's guys have kidnap the Lance and Tommy has work to save him.

The Tommy only wanted money from Sonny who sent Tommy in Vice City from Liberty city.The Tommy was the drug dealer and planed to

kill the Sonny,But Tommy get arrested by Police and the Sonny sent him to the Vice City.

But where was the Lance in the missions of Malibu Club???

And the Tommy always scold the Lance on his mistakes.

Lance had completed his revenge.

Now he can't leave the partnership between him and Tommy.

Because Tommy didn't know that he joined the Tommy for his bro's murder.

 

THAT WAS MY THEORY OR TRUE

35%THEORY -------------------- 65%TRUE

Edited by AB7035

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DragonpokeZ

The Lance only wanted revenge of the killing of his brother Victor Vance by those three killer in intro behind the crates(sent by Diaz).

Its prove is the Mission named as "DEATH ROW" ,in which Diaz's guys have kidnap the Lance and Tommy has work to save him.

The Tommy only wanted money from Sonny who sent Tommy in Vice City from Liberty city.The Tommy was the drug dealer and planed to

kill the Sonny,But Tommy get arrested by Police and the Sonny sent him to the Vice City.

But where was the Lance in the missions of Malibu Club???

And the Tommy always scold the Lance on his mistakes.

Lance had completed his revenge.

Now he can't leave the partnership between him and Tommy.

Because Tommy didn't know that he joined the Tommy for his bro's murder.

 

THAT WAS MY THEORY OR TRUE

35%THEORY -------------------- 65%TRUE

How does Lance being absent in the Malibu Club missions prove your theory?

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gluserty

I learned from a GTA series video that Apartment 3c (where the blood is on the wall & a chainsaw pickup is located) was going to be a safehouse, and that blood is the blood of one of those gunmen from the docks, because Tommy DID track one of those guys down, and before he died spilled the goods about Diaz busting up the deal. I guess there were initial plans to make it a mission, but like Kent Paul's information on the SWAT's "retirement fund" at the bank and more dialogue between Mercedes & Tommy, it wasn't included in the completed game.

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xNCx

@up such a story mission would be interesting, but heck, we have no evidence this was true, do we?

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Jimmy

After overthrowing Diaz, Lance always felt that Tommy was mistreating him, not giving him enough respect and credit where he should. Sonny had been watching Tommy the whole time and took advantage of Lance's strained relationship with Tommy. Being the backstabbing prick Lance was meant to be, he saw the better opportunity and took it.

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Toreno6901

I reckon he was recruited by Sonny around the time where Tommy kept getting calls from Lance about how he feels mistreated. Roughly around the time of the mission 'Cop Land'.

Sonny is to be eliminated by Tommy cos of the Lance V.s. Tommy plot.

Vercetti family had to takeover all Forelli assets in Vice City.

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Helegad

Why is pretty much explained in game, but how is totally up to the imagination. I like to think that there were "friendly" call-ins to Vercetti Estate before the mob started hitting up Tommy's businesses, and Lance saw it as an opportunity to network with a different crowd and do something that he thinks would really earn him respect from a big player. Lance doesn't seem to do so well on his own, he's always someone's partner or shadow, so if the coke got to his head and made him paranoid enough to think Tommy would screw him over, then yeah, it's easy to see why he jumped ship early.

Edited by Helegad

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Evil empire

When the scenarists decided these 2 fictional characters would be allies.

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Toreno6901

Keep your friends close. Bar Brawl & Cop Land missions.

When Sonny Forelli sends his soldiers to collect taxes from Tommy Vercetti Vice City assets and businesses, Tommy kills all of Forelli's

men.

Lance betrayed Tommy to Sonny Forelli after Tommy got rid of the

Forelli mobsters.

 

Lance and Vic Vance were part of the deal gone bad when Tommy and

Ken were double crossed by Forelli's men.

Edited by Toreno6901

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The Rockstar Gamer 108

I think Sonny tipped off Lance in last mission. In mission Bar Brawl, Tommy scolds Lance saying, "YOU CALL THIS HANDLING!!??!". Lance also phoned Tommy 2 times. In first one, Tommy told him Lance, now I'm warning you. In the 2nd one, Tommy remained silent.

 

Lance might have kept a grudge on Tom, which he tried to unmount on Tommy in the last mission.

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Evil empire

It's too bad the missions before the last one don't give any clue about Lance's final decision.

 

I suppose Lance wasn't initially supposed to betray Tommy but the scenarists didn't have any further use of him.

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