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GooD-NTS

OpenIV Team presents Liberty City in GTA V

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Ash_735

You don't need to delete the topic, just lock it. Don't want to erase the history behind the new rules.

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skullbe

Take2 just banned Another Rockstar 'IP' files.

 

you guys dont know what is 'IP'? they just let us modding whole GTA. GTA5 is one of GTA IP. we still can use them without anyproblem.

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X-Seti

Take2 just banned Another Rockstar 'IP' files.

 

you guys dont know what is 'IP'? they just let us modding whole GTA. GTA5 is one of GTA IP. we still can use them without anyproblem.

 

You might want to expand on this m8?

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George Costanza

You can't convert files between games (IPs) but you can make your own and put them in the game.

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BlackScout

tl;dr Map New York again and you'll be fine :V.

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Mr.Arrow

You can't convert files between games (IPs) but you can make your own and put them in the game.

 

Maybe they should recreate Rockstar's maps with the entire asset create from scratch lol

 

Probably not but R.I.P Map porting

Edited by Mr.Arrow

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George Costanza

I don't get why R*/Take2 see problem behind this. If they at least fixed IV to run at normal FPS and fixed flickering lods and water.
Imagine what would machinima makers do with this and RDRV map.

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Gummy 

The rule of no map porting between Rockstar's own IPs is pretty disappointing. I doubt there will be any drops on the sales for whatever game's map we put in V.

 

Also, there are tons of modders out there who might not be aware of the new rules, and still port content between R*'s IPs and also other IPs to V. I'm afraid if that continues on OpenIV will be the one held responsible again.

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K0ol-G-R4P

Only reason I can understand for why they killed this project is because they have plans of porting over LC themselves which was rumored a while ago.

 

Nothing else makes any sense because all the press attention this project would of received would have bumped sales and had no impact to GTAO.

 

Never mind the fact the OpenIV team made it mandatory you need to have GTAIV installed for the tool to work.

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nkjellman

Maybe if the map was modified rather than an exact copy, they may not care. So the changes that could be done would bring LC ahead so it is the same time period as GTA V. This can include:

-Custom foliage.

-Remastered Textures.

-Finished construction sites from IV, and new ones added.

-Amier Towers finished (they resemble the new WTC complex).

 

If something like this was done it wouldn't be a streight port. In a way it would be like what Rockstar does to their cars.

 

They don't want a streight LC map port. These kinda alterations may be enough.

Edited by nkjellman

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George Costanza

If someone missed this in Take Two vs. Modding

 

RE: the Liberty City project, this isn't anything new for modding.

 

Bethesda asked us at Nexus Mods to take down a mod that transferred assets from Fallout 3 to Fallout New Vegas, even though the mod made checks to ensure (1) the user had Fallout 3 installed and (2) that the Fallout 3 installed was legit and not pirated.

 

For Bethesda, the problem is in the fact that not all the stuff they use in their games is made specifically by them. They have to license things out from other companies. As a part of those licensing agreements, Bethesda agreed to ensure they protected the rights of the licensed work and to ensure that work licensed for Fallout 3 was only used in Fallout 3 and not in other games. A pretty standard agreement. Once Bethesda got wind of the project to transfer assets from Fallout 3 to New Vegas in a mod, legit installation or not, they were legally required to step in and stop it.

 

I imagine Rockstar and T2 have similar agreements in regards to their games.

 

This isn't to say that this IS the specific reason, just that there are justifiable legal reasons why the LC mod has been prevented from being worked on now by T2 and Rockstar.

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nkjellman

Long story "short" money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money.

 

But if they are smart and want money, they would let the project continue. They would sell a bunch of GTA IV copies because of the tool. Perhaps Good-NTS is trying to make them realize this and this is why he hasn't spoken yet. Hes probably trying to iron things out.

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LeeC2202

Just to throw some perspective from their side of the fence into this...

 

There are several layers of IP in something like this and each one carries the same level of protection as far as the IP owners are concerned.

 

The top layer is "Liberty City", the location and what it represents as part of the GTA world. So right off the bat, you have the name as a protected property. So any map that looks like Liberty City, can't be called "Liberty City", as that would misrepresent their IP. If it was a real city, then they would have no rights but it isn't, it's theirs.

 

Below that you have the actual map and if they wanted to, they could take that right down to object placement level. So any map that was a significant representation of the original map, would fall foul of that IP protection.

 

Below that you have the individual buildings that form the lore and that could be business names, logos etc... again, all of which form part of that IP and as such are protected.

 

The reason all of this exists, is whilst people modding GTAV might know and accept that it is not endorsed or created by Rockstar. Anyone outside that scene might not and in that instance, it becomes representative of the company. No company is going to want a public perception driven by user content. That user content might be great, but what they have to consider, is what if it isn't? What image does that portray of the company behind the IP?

 

It's easy to take the route that it's a money thing but in a lot of cases, it's an image thing, that directly translates to a financial consequence. When you start dabbling with minor elements, like taking a business name/logo across games, they're probably not going to care that much. But when you take a significant IP representation, like Liberty City (or RDR), it will ring alarm bells all over the place.

 

I have worked for companies like Cartoon Network and they are protective of their "image" down to absurd levels. The RGB values of a specific colour, proportion, scale, it's all about the identity of their IP. Because when people see those graphics, they think "That's Cartoon Network", so it matters... a lot. And they're not very happy about resistance either, no matter how good the reason is. One of the games I worked on had characters that were maybe 20 pixels wide across the head and they wanted the outlines 12% thinner. They couldn't understand that those lines were dictated by the width of the pixels and they weren't going to get 12% thinner.

 

I also think any "accidental" release of this project would be catastrophic. They won't give two second chances and they won't care whether it's a leak or a release. Breach those conditions and you could see them really go after modding, at every level.

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DidSomebodySayYouga
I still think that it is more expedient to take and make Liberty City yourself.

Well, or wait for the DLC from the Rockstar.

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nkjellman

 

I still think that it is more expedient to take and make Liberty City yourself.
Well, or wait for the DLC from the Rockstar.

 

Well, if the process could be automated, that would work.

 

What if instead of a Liberty City Converter, we have a map converter. It would be a tool that converts maps from GTA IV to GTA V automatically.

 

Now your probably thinking that I am a moron because that is what the LC converter is. But if you brand the tool as something that can be used to move map mods between the two games. But it just so happens that it can do it to LC. The point is, you don't brand it as such. Hell, you could even put in a security system that stops people from converting the LC files. By a security system, I mean something stupid that can be bypassed by renaming the LC files.

 

 

Anyways, I am hoping that things can be worked out. We have had conversions for ever. Hell, the GTA LC mod literally puts the entire GTA III on the VC engine. That is worse than a map conversion as you can play through the whole GTA III story line. Before anyone says, but III and VC are old, GTA LC was around when those games were younger than IV and V.

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Braindawg

I love these 'what if' situations that go without any concept of development.

 

Would take way too much time to make completely new software, and test it enough to trust it to convert everything flawlessly for each game (different formats ALL OVER DA PLACE)

Such a software is very possible to make, if something like that doesn't exist on some unpopular Russian forum or something, but doing it for this project would be a complete waste.

 

Also: GTA LC isn't "the entire GTA III on the VC engine". It's GTA VC modded to look like GTA 3...

 

You can look at it from a different angle:

 

GTA is seperated into 2 base engines:

 

*Renderware

*RAGE

 

RenderWare Games:

 

GTA 3

GTA VC is GTA 3, 'upgraded'

GTA SA is VC, 'upgraded'

 

LCS is VC 'modded'

VCS is VC 'modded'

 

My guess is that Manhunt 1 and 2, as well as Bully are all variations going from the SA engine... I think... Something like that.

Somewhere in there is Max Payne 2.

 

All of these games were made off of the base GTA 3 code to begin with.

From what I know they are using really old software to make modern games as well, so Rockstar are modders themselves if you really think about it.

Constantly upgrading their games, using the same engine or "a super duper impossibly modded GTA 3" in this case.

 

As for RAGE: You even can tell Max Payne 3 has the same GTA V, Red Dead feeling. Probably because GTA V was built off of Red Dead Redemption.

Somewhere they diverted to make MP3, and all it's unique features. Then, worked off of that to finish GTA V.

 

GTA IV -> RDR -> MP3 -> GTA V -> RDR2 (I'm a 100% sure of it)

 

Converting maps would be way more efficient to do even manually. Creating a software to convert maps between games would take way more time to code than to import, edit, and export map parts from one game, or in this case, make a program to validate your copy, and convert the files.

Edited by Braindawg

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George Costanza

LCS, VCS and manhunt 2 runs on R* 3D leeds engine, the original LCS one is some kind of derivation from VC, VCS being upgrade of LCS. Bully on PS2 is "upgraded" SA RW. Bully on PC, X360, Wii is Gamebryo. Bully mobile is supposed to be back on renderware. Manhunt1 is probably upgraded GTA 3 RW. MP1&2 are probably runnin on some Remedy inhouse engines. RAGE is build from Angel Game Engine (red dead revolver, older midnight clubs)
As for rage, some older Ash's quote

RAGE ERB1
- Rockstar Presents Table Tennis

RAGE ERB2
- Grand Theft Auto IV
- Midnight Club LA
- Grand Theft Auto: Episodes from Liberty City

RAGE ERB3
- Max Payne 3
- Grand Theft Auto V/Online

RAGE is developed by Rockstar San Diego, the studio that handles the Midnight Club and Red Dead series, for Red Dead Redemption though it uses neither ERB2 or ERB3, it's like a highly customised split off version of ERB2 mixed with some RB3 features (think of it like a 2.5), The code for that was a complete mess and changes were made daily without being documented during development, and as such no PC version of the code was ever made as they strictly focused on getting the Xbox 360 (which was the main focus of RAGE during ERB1 and ERB2) and PlayStation 3 version of the game stable.

After Red Dead Redemption, Rockstar used the year in which L.A.Noire was being pushed (which doesn't use RAGE) to heavily rework RAGE for a new build which took advantage of both PC and PlayStation 3 features, as well as pushing the Xbox 360 to it's limits, this resulted in ERB3 which debuted with Max Payne 3, which of course had a brilliant PC version compared to the previous PC release which at the time was Grand Theft Auto IV/Episodes from Liberty City.

The ONLY way Rockstar could do a remaster of Red Dead Redemption is if they took the game itself and transfered it over to ERB3 and THEN ported it to PC (which in turn would allow PS4 and XBO versions too), but to salvage that mess of a code and actually put that amount of work into it would cost a lot of man hours.

It's not because "they just hate PC gamers", etc, or anything silly like that, it really is because the game itself is a coded mess and it's a surprise it got stable on 360/PS3, if you look at the assets yourself you can even see things like audio and textures thrown in last minute not packed in the archives properly, etc, as an example of how things were being thrown around right up til gold with the game.

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Spider-Vice

RAGE is build from Angel Game Engine (red dead revolver, older midnight clubs)

 

And the Midtown Madness games as well. I've had some fun a few months ago looking at the files of some of those older games, and it's impressive how some of the engine subroutines and even file directories survived to this day with RAGE.

 

For instance, the 'tune' folder for AI tuning and general game tuning:

MM2: http://i.imgur.com/fjiEV48.png

GTA V: http://i.imgur.com/uIuOCTO.png

 

Some of the file formats were kept until Table Tennis/RDR1 as well.

MM2 bounds: http://i.imgur.com/yvzN952.png

Table Tennis bounds: http://i.imgur.com/U7sC7Gz.png

 

Along with the development directory at Angel/San Diego:

MM2 AGE: c:\soft\age\src\*

RDR RAGE: c:\soft\rage\base\src\*

 

Midnight Club 2 Source: c:\soft_x\mc2\src\mcproduct\win32_release\

Table Tennis Source: c:\soft_xpong\xpong\game\src\pong\xenon_final\

RDR Source: c:\soft\rdr2\game\src\rdr2\xenon_final\ (yes, it was called RDR2)

Midnight Club LA Source: C:\soft\mc4\game\src\mc4\xenon_final\

 

Not sure which one it is now, but one of the RAGE games still has leftovers of AGE. I think to do with audio.

So yes, it's not like Rockstar came up with RAGE suddenly in a sunny day in 2004 or 2005. They just changed it to their liking for GTA and stuff.

Edited by Spider-Vice

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Braindawg

Wow...

 

 

LCS, VCS and manhunt 2 runs on R* 3D leeds engine, the original LCS one is some kind of derivation from VC, VCS being upgrade of LCS. Bully on PS2 is "upgraded" SA RW. Bully on PC, X360, Wii is Gamebryo. Bully mobile is supposed to be back on renderware. Manhunt1 is probably upgraded GTA 3 RW. MP1&2 are probably runnin on some Remedy inhouse engines. RAGE is build from Angel Game Engine (red dead revolver, older midnight clubs)
As for rage, some older Ash's quote

RAGE ERB1
- Rockstar Presents Table Tennis

RAGE ERB2
- Grand Theft Auto IV
- Midnight Club LA
- Grand Theft Auto: Episodes from Liberty City

RAGE ERB3
- Max Payne 3
- Grand Theft Auto V/Online

RAGE is developed by Rockstar San Diego, the studio that handles the Midnight Club and Red Dead series, for Red Dead Redemption though it uses neither ERB2 or ERB3, it's like a highly customised split off version of ERB2 mixed with some RB3 features (think of it like a 2.5), The code for that was a complete mess and changes were made daily without being documented during development, and as such no PC version of the code was ever made as they strictly focused on getting the Xbox 360 (which was the main focus of RAGE during ERB1 and ERB2) and PlayStation 3 version of the game stable.

After Red Dead Redemption, Rockstar used the year in which L.A.Noire was being pushed (which doesn't use RAGE) to heavily rework RAGE for a new build which took advantage of both PC and PlayStation 3 features, as well as pushing the Xbox 360 to it's limits, this resulted in ERB3 which debuted with Max Payne 3, which of course had a brilliant PC version compared to the previous PC release which at the time was Grand Theft Auto IV/Episodes from Liberty City.

The ONLY way Rockstar could do a remaster of Red Dead Redemption is if they took the game itself and transfered it over to ERB3 and THEN ported it to PC (which in turn would allow PS4 and XBO versions too), but to salvage that mess of a code and actually put that amount of work into it would cost a lot of man hours.

It's not because "they just hate PC gamers", etc, or anything silly like that, it really is because the game itself is a coded mess and it's a surprise it got stable on 360/PS3, if you look at the assets yourself you can even see things like audio and textures thrown in last minute not packed in the archives properly, etc, as an example of how things were being thrown around right up til gold with the game.

 

This is some very interesting info, you're right about the RDR thing as well. It would be like remaking GTA IV, in V, then porting it for PC. It would be a MESS.

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emrc01

This is an epic f*ckfest all I wanted was lc in v

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RoscoeHussein

This is an epic f*ckfest all I wanted was lc in v

No victory without sacrifice...

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