Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!

    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

      1. Gameplay
      2. Missions
      3. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Online

      1. Gameplay
      2. Find Lobbies & Outlaws
      3. Help & Support
    1. Crews & Posses

      1. Recruitment
    2. Events

    1. GTA Online

      1. Arena War
      2. After Hours
      3. Find Lobbies & Players
      4. Guides & Strategies
      5. Vehicles
      6. Content Creator
      7. Help & Support
    2. Grand Theft Auto Series

    3. GTA Next

    4. GTA V

      1. PC
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Help & Support
    5. GTA IV

      1. Episodes from Liberty City
      2. Multiplayer
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
      5. GTA Mods
    6. GTA Chinatown Wars

    7. GTA Vice City Stories

    8. GTA Liberty City Stories

    9. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    10. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    11. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    12. Top Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    13. Wiki

      1. Merchandising
    1. GTA Modding

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    3. Featured Mods

      1. DYOM
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Red Dead Redemption

    2. Rockstar Games

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Programming
      5. Movies & TV
      6. Music
      7. Sports
      8. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    1. News

    2. Forum Support

    3. Site Suggestions

Zello

Could GTA work in a small town?

Recommended Posts

Zello
8 hours ago, Dryspace said:

I'm not convinced that it would align well with GTA, but if done properly, I think that a typical Midwest setting could work really well as an open world.

 

It is basically the equivalent of the island setting that has for obvious reasons been standard: There are numerous small towns which are separated by expanses of forest and field instead of water. A method of procedural generation needs to be developed by which the basic topography, or terrain, of a large area is modeled "by hand", and then according to various parameters which are set, the land is "naturalized" by running a simulation which distributes grasses, plants, and trees according to known natural rules (air temperature/humidity, annual rainfall, elevation, land slope, ground water, seed dispersion, relevant fauna, etc.).

 

This would likely reduce the manpower involved in creating natural environments by 90 - 99%. After the simulation does its job, areas where a more specific natural aesthetic is desired can be altered, and various enhancements can be custom-placed such as an old and strikingly-shaped tree--occurrences which serve as landmarks and add character to an area. Apart from this, designers are free to focus only on man-made alterations to the world--just as in reality. The computer (mostly) handles nature, humans handle artifice.

 

This is ideal, as--complex as they may be in toto--nature is determined by a collection of rules, which a computer can recreate. But human artifice has clearly a much more complex basis. I don't believe anyone here wants a town or even a rural trailer park to be procedurally generated.

 

Getting to my ultimate point: If nature is created in this way, then the expanse of nature in a game is limited in practical terms only by computer hardware and not by manpower. Thus, one can dispense with the ocean as a means of limiting travel outside of the game world proper, and dispense with the visible or invisible boundaries, and instead allow the player to simply continue indefinitely in any direction. That could be done literally, if terrain generation is included, and the simulation algorithms operate at run time. But as I indicated, I'm suggesting an extremely large but finite world. What will happen, then, when a player just keeps going?

 

For one, the further the player gets from the world proper, hand-placed, interesting things will become fewer and more far between, just as waves become smaller and more difficult to detect as they radiate further outward. But there need be no danger of a player reaching the limit of the pre-generated terrain. This is because the farther the player travels, the higher is the statistical likelihood of various undesirable events. The player doesn't automatically get teleported back to his "pen", or get automatically obliterated by missiles, or just automatically get killed by an invisible force--rather, the player's ability to survive any given threat decreases until the chances of reaching the limit of travel are perhaps 0.001%. It is up to the developer to be as creative--and realistic--as possible with the type of threats that occur. Examples include animal attacks, accidental attacks by humans, ambush/murder, lightning strikes, airborne trees/debris during high winds, etc.

 

This system would allow perhaps 99% of players to travel as far as they wish in a playthrough without ever feeling like they were penned in or forced to turn back. It would be possible to travel farther, but as interesting things become more and more scarce, and threats become more and more common, each player will eventually reach his limit of patience and only the most die-hard will attempt to forge ahead, solely for the sake of it. This would allow for an inland rural setting while maintaining the sense of unlimited exploration and realism that many people desire from an open-world game.

I'm not a fan of procedural generation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aquamaniac
17 hours ago, Jabalous said:

Maybe part of the appeal of GTA is giving players a chance to live a fantasy in a made-up world of America's iconic cities. Small towns could work, but maybe not as exciting as visiting a reimagined version of the city of angels or the big apple. It's hard to know how the attraction to GTA's fantasy would be affected if it takes place in a less known city, let alone small towns. Maybe there's no relevance at all and I'm just guessing. 

 

But isn't rural America as iconic as the big cities? The size of Los Santos in GTA V is far away from the real LA and rather resembles a midsize town. A smaller town in its actual size in GTA could be as large as a shrunken LA or NYC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Emmi

Not only would it work, it would be amazing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dryspace
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Zello said:

I'm not a fan of procedural generation.

I assume what you mean is that you're not a fan of macro-scale procedural generation, and neither am I. I also assume you mean that you are not a fan of random procedural generation, and again--neither am I. I have no interest in games that randomly generate levels in order to achieve greater content. Quantity is nothing without quality.

 

Procedures are already used in most games--lighting for example is generated procedurally either at run time or baked in. Water waves are generated procedurally. Procedures can be used for things which follow mathematical rules, like light transport and plant development/distribution. It should not be used for things that require human ingenuity, such as the creation of man-made objects, structures, levels, etc.

 

 

5 hours ago, Aquamaniac said:

 

But isn't rural America as iconic as the big cities?

My issue is that I don't think that 'iconic' is the primary theme that Rockstar uses. There are a lot of places that are iconic: London, Paris, Egypt, Tokyo, the Pacific Northwest--but I think that the primary theme of GTA is a specific American thug/gang scene which simply doesn't exist outside of specific cities.

 

As I said, I think such a concept could make for a good game, but the concepts and themes that are central to GTA--the very things that one takes for granted that he does in the game--would not fit in the type of rural American setting that is being discussed.

Edited by Dryspace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheSantader25
Posted (edited)

I don't think it's a good idea to have most of the game take place in a small town but I always consider the rural areas and countryside a big part of American Culture and therefore they are a necessity for me in GTA games ever since San Andreas. R* can really improve in this area in the next game by taking inspiration of the RDR series. Having a bunch of bars and interiors with unique NPCs and giving you a sense of "A Small town where everybody is close to each other" is what I seek. Rural areas also give a lot of freedom to R* for more varied criminal activities due to their Looser Law Enforcement. 

 

So in short what I want for the next GTA is 2-3 Big Cities(each a bit bigger than LC and LS) detailed like LS/LC from V/IV which occupy 60% if the story and loads of countryside and small towns, bays,... Which occupy the rest of the story. Basically San Andreas but with the experience R* have now gained in NPC design from RDR and Map design in the HD era. The Story also should be pretty long to fully do justice to each area. 

Edited by TheSantader25

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dryspace
1 hour ago, TheSantader25 said:

Rural areas also give a lot of freedom to R* for more varied criminal activities due to their Looser Law Enforcement.

I have to point out though, that the reason small towns have looser law enforcement is because they have a lot less criminal activity. 😛

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheSantader25
7 minutes ago, Dryspace said:

I have to point out though, that the reason small towns have looser law enforcement is because they have a lot less criminal activity. 😛

You probably won't see SWAT coming around a small town even if you cause mayhem though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dryspace
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, TheSantader25 said:

You probably won't see SWAT coming around a small town even if you cause mayhem though. 

It's interesting that you say that, because I was thinking about how, if a person started to make a real nuisance of himself in a small town, the National Guard would probably be called in, kind of like in First Blood.

 

It would be cool to have multiple layers of enforcement. Perhaps even things like private bounty hunters.

Edited by Dryspace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Zello
6 hours ago, Dryspace said:

I have to point out though, that the reason small towns have looser law enforcement is because they have a lot less criminal activity. 😛

Depends sometimes because they're so small they dont have the resources to go after them or they're either too dumb and it slips under their noses or they're corrupt and being paid off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aquamaniac
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Dryspace said:

My issue is that I don't think that 'iconic' is the primary theme that Rockstar uses. There are a lot of places that are iconic: London, Paris, Egypt, Tokyo, the Pacific Northwest--but I think that the primary theme of GTA is a specific American thug/gang scene which simply doesn't exist outside of specific cities.

 

As I said, I think such a concept could make for a good game, but the concepts and themes that are central to GTA--the very things that one takes for granted that he does in the game--would not fit in the type of rural American setting that is being discussed.

 

Gang stuff hadn't a large part in V either and many of the gang stuff happened in the countryside, there is no reason for not having gangs in a rural setting. The bigger problem is the selection of cars, highend sportcars don't fit to a rural setting, a GTA set in a desolate city like Detroit would have the same problem, so I am afraid GTA will have to stick to wealthier, well known cities to appeal to the mainstream. Sadly not all settings that would be interesting from an artistic point of view would sell well or more important keep people playing it online. I wouldn't mind if future GTAs revisit and re-invent the known locations. Vice City next, then a new Liberty City with a large New England countryside, then a new San Andreas setting, maybe featuring San Francisco and Reno (instead of Las Vegas).

 

PS: In my opinion GTA V was largely based on rural America, this is why I like it so much, in other words the countryside feels much more like a countryside as the city feels like an actual big city. The missions in the countryside in V were much more fun for me than the rest, starting with the Trevor plot, hijacking the train, chasing the shot-down plane, stealing the military truck, the shootout in the saw mill, the cannibal hillbillies  ...

 

Actually V had almost all the stuff I'd desire and I am afraid a future GTA won't get as "Redneck" as V already was.

 

Edited by Aquamaniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Coconut Kid

I am more open to a small town GTA than I've ever been. And assuming the series stays in America, I think that there's no time like the present to serve this type of location. There is a thread on here with comments from Dan Houser stating that present day is a challenging environment to release a new GTA in because everything changes so fast. I disagree with this. Instead the writers should look towards areas of the U.S. such as the Midwest and the Appalachians that aren't changing and that have been in decline for some time. I follow the U.S. news only briefly but it would seem to me that 'forgotten' small townsfolk in rural "red" states are shaping America as much as the likes of your New York City, Miami and Los Angeles. A storyline around people who place their faith in political madmen to fight their battles, are hooked on opiates and compete for the rural drug trade could rank up their with the best of the political + organized crime satire that they've produced.

 

The RDR2 model mentioned above convinces me that Rockstar would know exactly how to model this and where to look for their characters: several small, vastly detailed towns and one big city that the protagonist eventually gets to consolidate their power against a number of gangs would do just the trick. To pull this off would require a serious investment in story and well fleshed out characters that are unlikeable but understandable given their circumstances. Red Dead shows that they are more than capable of this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheerT

Being honest, on one hand: sure. Rockstar could make the town very detailed while being very accurate to its real-life counterpart. On the other hand: I'm used to cities based on big ones so much that I can't really imagine a GTA game in something small. I'd give a small town setting a try, though. May work if done correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pete4000uk

Let's face it, I know of English towns bigger than Los Santos, so a 'small town' would work. But I would rather a very large city with a couple of towns scattered around

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dryspace

Here's the real question: How many of you would prefer the next GTA to be based in a rural setting as we're describing here, and how many would prefer that the next GTA be city-based as usual, and Rockstar create a new IP based around the rural setting we're discussing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aquamaniac
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Dryspace said:

Here's the real question: How many of you would prefer the next GTA to be based in a rural setting as we're describing here, and how many would prefer that the next GTA be city-based as usual, and Rockstar create a new IP based around the rural setting we're discussing?

Why not both? A large map void of a big city is a waste of potential and a map consisting only of metropolitan area like IV is also a waste of potential and too limited. Some things work only in a rural environment, everything that involves planes e.g., other things work better in a big city.

 

I would much favor a solely rural scenario over a solely metropolitan map though.

Edited by Aquamaniac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dryspace
10 hours ago, Aquamaniac said:

Why not both? A large map void of a big city is a waste of potential and a map consisting only of metropolitan area like IV is also a waste of potential and too limited. Some things work only in a rural environment, everything that involves planes e.g., other things work better in a big city.

 

I would much favor a solely rural scenario over a solely metropolitan map though.

I want to make sure we're not talking at cross-purposes here. I'm not talking about the map itself--GTA has already had both city and rural areas. The subject that I thought we were discussing was a game--with its story, characters, atmosphere, and underlying themes--being based around a city versus being based around a rural area.

 

Even though they are different genres, it's the difference between Max Payne with its dark and gritty big city setting, and Alan Wake with its rural Pacific Northwest setting. The first has no rural areas at all, and the second has no urban areas at all. (Interestingly, Alan Wake was originally supposed to be open-world before Remedy invited Microsoft in.)

 

For myself, I would really love a great open-world game with an entirely small-town setting. It's something that I have thought about for quite a while. That doesn't mean that I think it would make a great Grand Theft Auto game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jabalous
On 3/2/2019 at 2:10 AM, Zello said:

I'm not a fan of procedural generation.

I agree with you, but if R* builds their own procedural system, I am sure that it won't fall below the standards that they always strives for. Procedural land is best to work as a replacement for the infinite ocean, at least from one direction instead of having the ocean bordering from all directions. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Len Lfc

Absolutely. However, what we've come to want from GTA games might not align with that. Then consider what you need for GTA Online to work. In the end, I don't think it would, no. I remember an interview with Leslie Benzies (although I'm struggling to find the quote) where he mentioned having the right sized world to finally do GTA Online, as one of the many factors for finally being able to do that. I just don't think online in a small town works as well. However, if they add the new location to online, allowing us to go back to previous locations, that could work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jabalous

On procedurally generated content (e.g. maps), Rob Nelson of Rockstar Games said in response to a question

 

Quote

 

GamesBeat: I really liked this game. I played all 105 missions. I had a colleague who felt like he wanted it to be more like Hitman 2, where you can go and do anything, tackle your target through many kinds of means. It seems to me that approach is not what you wanted to do or tried to do. Do you have a view on how you balanced this sort of directed story versus the openness of the world and the missions?

 

Nelson: I think all of us feel like we want to approach any situation, anything, in any way we want and have it be credible. But that’s a big, big challenge. To do that and have it feel — it’s a big world and a big story, and I think it needed to be a big world and a big story for what we set out to do. But yes, we explored a lot of different avenues early in development, like more procedural approaches to things. Hey, it’d be great if this camp could totally grow and you could hire people from towns and come back and add to your camp. We explored, at one point, if you could take anybody fishing that you wanted at any time.

 

But what that ended up doing was a very procedural-feeling game. You’d write a bit of dialogue, beta a bit of dialogue, and go and make these AI-type behaviors. It didn’t feel like you’re on a thing with Pearson and Bill, or you’re on a thing with Javier and John. It felt like you were on a thing with AI that just looked like those people, but they didn’t behave like those people.

 

Unfortunately there’s no procedural system yet that we’re happy enough with to make the worlds we make. Our worlds are handmade. Our artists will use certain procedural tools, but they’re all curated by the artists. It’s the same for the content we make. For it to make you feel anything, it has to be made by humans. It has to be written and designs and shot and acted and processed and put into place very carefully. For things that happen in the world, we have to very selectively know when they’re going to happen.

 

It would be great if this was all open, but people have to make this stuff happen at some point. It has to be scripted so that it all feels right. I don’t think there are procedural tools that will make it feel real.

 

 

I agree with him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beato_dim

Well, GTA3 rendition of Liberty City was a pretty small town to begin with...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HOW'S ANNIE?
On 12/5/2016 at 8:08 PM, ClaudeSpeed1911 said:

It could work and I would like them to look at the awesome Deadly Premonition if they do it.

That game has a routine system for everyone in the town and you could see them go to and out of work, go to bars or do other activities.

 

However they might need to make the game like GTA4 expantion packs.You know with the different characters having different stories and makes use of the areas that doesn't get used in the other protagonist story.

 

I would like the story to be a blend of Twin Peaks and Fargo. With you getting to know everyone in the town and maybe finding out the ones pulling the string (Twin Peaks) Along with the more brutal nature of Fargo. I want to dump bodies in ice or get rid of them using the wood shredder.

 

Gameplay wise they have to make it both action and realistic, make the town a peacefull one until you get closer to getting rid of the mafia/gang/antagonist and taking over. What I mean is start by pulling off "stealthy" crime until later on the town goes from peacefull to full of crime

Sums up my take personal belief in what a small town/rural GTA should be. Hell, a game like this could even accommodate a plot with multiple protagonist much, much better than GTA V. All the lies, all the violence, all the madness, wrapped up in one interconnected and seeminly loving community. Could lead to a lot of twists and turns, e.g. with one protagonist having discovered another protagonists impending betrayal by the antagonist.

 

Granted the possible number of side activities in a world like this may be a lot more limited than say in a big city, but Rockstar (hopefully still, but in doubt) being the geniuses they are could add a greater deal of depth to them than previous instalments.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • 2 Users Currently Viewing
    0 members, 0 Anonymous, 2 Guests

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.