Old vs. New

[Rewdalf]

 

modern cars definitely have comfier seats

Id like to say that this isn't always the case. For me, it isn't leather vs cloth vs whatever other material, its the actual shape of the seat that determines comfort. The softness of the seat is of a lower priority. I've literally sat on bare sheet metal and carbon (because racecar) and found it more comfortable than some modern car interiors because the normal car had a horrid seat shape.

 

Seats are a very, very subjective topic, and at least with my experience, I cannot say that older cars are necessarily better/worse than newer ones. I've sat in pretty comfy seats and quite awkward seats in both newer and older cars.

 

I do love myself a genuine leather interior in a luxury car. Screw the environment, it's well worth it

 

 

I mean, I get what he's saying.

On average, maybe. Older vehicles weren't as ergonomically designed...

 

But I will say, my 1988 Porsche seat (even though it's torn up to hell and ratty as a mofo) is more comfortable than my 2005 Golf.

It's all about the shape.

There are older cars that are more comfortable.

There are older cars that aren't.

It all just boils down to personal preference.

[Svip]

 

 

modern cars definitely have comfier seats

You've clearly never sat in a proper Citroën.

 

Of course old school purpose-built luxury cars have excellent comfort given it didn't matter how many geese were plucked, cows were skinned and hydraulic valves were blown to deliver a living room on wheels.

 

But with modern materials, sports and economy cars can be driven for hundreds of miles without discomfort, while it used to be widely accepted that those segments were just plain painful to drive.

 

If you ever come around Denmark, I'll show you what proper luxury is.

[Carlover325]

I can't drive my stepmom's 2006 Chevy Impala LS for more than 30 minutes without my butt going numb. That car has the most uncomfortable seats I've ever sat in. My brother's old 1998 Ford Explorer Sport had some of the most comfortable seats (cloth) I've ever sat in. I've been a passenger in a newer-model Audi (around a 2012) with leather, and I found the seats too firm. My truck's cloth seats are pretty comfortable. Seat comfort is subjective from person to person (some may prefer the firm seats in an Audi)

 

I am a fan of both new and old cars, although I tend to gravitate towards newer cars in general. But one of my favorite things to see is an old muscle car or truck with modern suspension and drivetrain components. Some people see that as blasphemy, but not me. Old-school design with modern power/efficiency/reliability is a win-win in my mind.

[Misumi]

Sounds like you need some Recaro seats.

 

[Carlover325]

More comfortable than the Impala, but slightly more dangerous.

[Lurch]

 

Modern car wishlist:

- Heavier steering

- Instant throttle response

- Let people buy a manual

- Better visibility (cameras don't count)

- Stop making wheels bigger and tyres thinner, if people want that they can go aftermarket

Why the heavier steering? Isn't that a bit counter-productive? I can understand less power assistance but even a small car needs some degree of mechanical assist. Imagine an SUV with no power steering. The steering wheel would need to be the height of the windscreen to make turning bearable. The sportier the car, much the same idea due to the grip of the wheels unless you want terminal understeer due to no front end grip.

 

Dumb post is dumb. I've driven plenty of manual steering cars with small steering wheels and it's fine. My manual rack Miata (18:1 ratio and 3.36 turns lock to lock), my manual rack CRX (18.6 ratio and 3.8 turns L2L), my friends depowered rack Miata (15:1 ratio and 2.8 turns L2L). All with my little 320 mm Momo. Also drove a friend's E30 325is with a depowered E36 M3 rack and a 350 mm wheel. They were all fine to drive. Hell, a Lotus Elise has manual steering, a fairly quick high geared rack (15.8 ratio, 2.4 turns L2L) and an absolutely tiny steering wheel (300mm I think). They all seem to work.

 

I don't think your theory really holds true there. No front end grip? Wut? That makes no sense. I think manual steering on a sports car is fine so long as you're not a pussy. Granted, I wouldn't want to drive a big, heavy car like a 350z with tires that were bigger than 245's with manual steering. That just doesn't sound like fun.

[DangerZ0neX]

I don't know about you guys, the newer Porsches are one of the best things I've drove yet, not to mention that the seats are super comfortable and just the exact right balance between cushiony and firm.

[epoxi]

When it comes to car control, I think the general population doesn't work their shoulders enough. In my Celica Reverse is next to 1st gear so you have to put it into reverse "with certainty" and some people I have let drive the car physically cannot put it into reverse without using both hands on the gear stick.

[Svip]

When it comes to car control, I think the general population doesn't work their shoulders enough. In my Celica Reverse is next to 1st gear so you have to put it into reverse "with certainty" and some people I have let drive the car physically cannot put it into reverse without using both hands on the gear stick.

That's the one of the problems with RWD.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Svip

[sivispacem]

An ex colleague of mine who was an advanced driving instructor with some Northern police force suggests that, in a 6-speed car with reverse up and left, changing R-1-2 (away from you) should be done with your palm away from you (IE thumb downwards) and 3 through 6 (straightish or towards you) should be done palm towards/thumb upwards.

 

It's actually made a really big difference since I started doing it, especially in fast road driving.

[Misumi]

My grip depends a lot on the shape of the shifter itself. Tall one = side grip. Ball knobs = top with hand offset slightly away from me. My preference is for the taller ones for a more full side grip.

[DangerZ0neX]

I prefer ball-shaped stick shifts with short throws, but if given the choice, I wouldn't mind trading them for an 8-speed auto with shift-pedals on the steering wheel.

 

Only exception if it's a Miata, that thing is better with a manual no matter what.

Edited December 12, 2016 by DangerZ0neX

[Cudwieser]

An ex colleague of mine who was an advanced driving instructor with some Northern police force suggests that, in a 6-speed car with reverse up and left, changing R-1-2 (away from you) should be done with your palm away from you (IE thumb downwards) and 3 through 6 (straightish or towards you) should be done palm towards/thumb upwards.

 

It's actually made a really big difference since I started doing it, especially in fast road driving.

Funnily that was similar to an instruction I had from my driving instructor and something I kind of do (I am guilty of forcing every so often, but largely rest the habd against the side opposite to the way I intend to move the stick. First is forward left on my car and I simply ease left and down for second. ease forward with no lateral force to let the stick take its own course to centre, and ease up to third. 4th is pretty self explanitory and 5th is light pressure on the opposite side and ease right and forward (Reverse is straight down from 5th, a horror for my driving instructor since I drive the same gen corolla as I was taught in).

[Irish45455]

For me all cars are amazing pieces of machinery. I've loved cars since I was knee high to a grasshopper. It was like love at first sight. From cars like the the first one made in the late 1800s all the way to cars now like the Koenigsegg One:1 and Ferrari The Ferrari, there so much that goes into making them, and maintaining them, that it's crazy to me when people don't appreciate all cars and just say sh*t like this brand is better than that or older cars or better or newer cars are better. All cars are cool.

[Cudwieser]

For me all cars are amazing pieces of machinery. I've loved cars since I was knee high to a grasshopper. It was like love at first sight. From cars like the the first one made in the late 1800s all the way to cars now like the Koenigsegg One:1 and Ferrari The Ferrari, there so much that goes into making them, and maintaining them, that it's crazy to me when people don't appreciate all cars and just say sh*t like this brand is better than that or older cars or better or newer cars are better. All cars are cool.

I admire your innocence, but...

 

While nod should be given to the car in general for what it is there is a definate nuance to the cars. While it would be rich for many of to compare a porche to a lambo to a ferrari (some on here can) there is still something to be said of a particular brand, or at least of a particular product made by a brand (woe betide those that would dismiss a skoda), not to mention the basic improvements made over time. Ultimately if a car feels like crap, goes like crap or smells like crap it's probably a tractor. (or a lada ). Seriously though cars are a thing that must at least work, be comfortable and not take forever to go anywhere. Most modern cars usurp the aged in those respects, but there is something to be said of used cars. There was a brief mention of Citroen. It is a good example of older being better than new in many ways (2CV and DS being case in point), equally Skoda being an example of improvement in time (or the whole Japanese car industry). Ultimately the finer detail is where things sit as when you live with the car, day in, day out, yoou get to know what makes a good car (try driving a cheap efficient box day daily as opposed to a slightly more expoensive barge with less mpg. You might surprise yourself how much more popular the barge proves to be).

[InstaNoodles]

Me, personally, I prefer older cars. Newer cars look ok, but something about them doesn't sit right for me. I find that some companies claim to have a 'revolutionary' design when really it looks barely different from the car parked next to it, or it's just been given the "angry face" and/or "angry butt" treatment *ahem Toyota Prius*.

 

Lastly, I don't like how the visability in some cars has gotten worse. When I was in driver's ed, they had 2 Chevy Malibus, a fifth generation (1997-2005) and a seventh generation (2008-2012). I didn't like driving the newer Malibu. I couldn't see out the back window because it was so thin and the pillars were too thick that I found it difficult to check my blindspots (or maybe I just couldn't be bothered to lean forward a few inches).

[Audi]

I honestly like how my B5 drives. The steering isn't great and it understeers like all old Audi's but I know the limits of the car. It just feels,like home to me lol. I don't like how the B8 got so damn big. It's the size of an old C5 A6. I have driven both the new A3 and S3 and they feel more in line with the old B5/B6/B7 body styles.

 

I did recently drive a BMW 1M and gotta say I love that car. The DCT shifted so nicely and the backfire everytime I downshifted put a massive grin on my face. Just wish rwd was practical around here.

[sivispacem]

A B5 with decent suspension and a good geo can be made to hustle pretty bloody well in the corners. I'd have loved to try one with a modded centre diff like some of the StaSIS cars run for a more rear biased torque split.

[Outcast]

I did recently drive a BMW 1M and gotta say I love that car. The DCT shifted so nicely and the backfire everytime I downshifted put a massive grin on my face. Just wish rwd was practical around here.

The 1M never came with a DCT option, only 6MT.

[JRC99]

Here's a prime example of the pointless animosity in car culture.

 

 

 

Both sides sh*tting on the Rat Rod and the Lamborghini, as well as basically anything else in the video. Let me just pull a comment someone made on that video for laughs.

 

These are not true car guys , they are just concerned about an image. The rat rod is a piece of total sh*t, it cant corner, it can handle, it is not made of fine materials , its rusty and junky, ITS ONLY ABOUT AN IMAGE . These people are so fake . They just hate what they know they will never be able to own. Lamborghini's are hand built , are painstakingly built to exacting measures and some image tough guys just talking sh*t cos he thinks it make him look cool. True car guys would be interested in the lambo. Get over yourself. You are comparing a broken pay phone to a new i phone, its called advancements, and if that dont concern you than you are just as fake as these guys.

So many things wrong at once. But all that really needs be pointed out is him labeling Freiburger as a non enthusiast. He was only the Editor in Chief of Hot Rod Magazine with numerous personal builds, but apparently not a car person.

 

It's easy to get riled up over the abundance of sketchy comments, but my tip is just to disregard most of it especially if you're seeing it online. Most of the online commenters have no experience with automobiles beyond video games and movies. The good news is these Negative Nancys are rare in person. If you frequent meets and shows, the community is quite respecting and exciting, and everyone gets along. It's the online community that has that toxic touch.

I can't even watch that episode anymore because I always read the comments and become infuriated.

[Audi]

It had to be a 135i then. It was awhile ago...

[stokiekris]

Had an argument the other day with a guy I play destiny with, he's not really a car person but likes cars, you know the sort lol.

 

Anyway the argument started when he asked what car I drive, I told him a 2007 skoda Octavia vrs estate and he just started laughing, I asked him what was up and he was like why the f*ck you got a 9 year old car. FML!

 

Seriously this then started an hour long ramble from him why new is always better. And then about 20 mins of me trying to get him to see sense that that's not always correct until I finally decided it was pointless as no matter what I said he just wouldn't listen so i muted him hahaha

[K1FFLOM]

Old is better in the long run.

Best without the useless electrics in the engine and chassis department.

 

My daily driver is a 2008 Honda Accord 2.0.

And I so much prefer the carb-engine in the Rover. It is more responsive at the throttle than the modern fuel injected engines (more responsive !, not more powerful).

 

And once the electric car will become mandatory here in Germany by 2030, I will drive my 1988 Rover daily. Even now already it is so much fun to drive in front of electric cars with choke full on.

"stink 'em out. lol."

 

I have driven 2 hybrids over a time of 8 years from the year 2000 onwards. No one gave a damm.

Guess it is ok for me to ignore car-emissions for the next decade.

Even moreso if VW can do it by law.

[Misumi]

I wonder what he'd say to my friends 1969 Mini. He must think it's horrible at nearly 50 years old. He'd probably lose his sh*t if I told him one of my dream cars is nearly 90 years old.

[epoxi]

I have driven 2 hybrids over a time of 8 years from the year 2000 onwards. No one gave a damm.

Guess it is ok for me to ignore car-emissions for the next decade.

Even moreso if VW can do it by law.

Here Volkswagen, let me pour some cold diesel to soothe that BURN!

 

As for my view on new cars, I think there is nothing wrong with adding more functionality to a car itself, more features are always better but only if executed properly.

 

However the increased complexity should never be used in a way that makes the car any less serviceable, accessible or worst of all inherently obsolescent:

- The wiring and diagnostics should be modular such that the failure of one system never affects the others (e.g. how electrical gremlins can ruin a physically solid car)

- The tools to work on parts should not be proprietary for numerous obvious reasons

- The owner of the car should have means to manipulate software in the car. Whether it voids the warranty or not I don't care, but in 10 years' time when the manufacturer doesn't give a damn about supporting the old cars, the end user should be able to apply updates of their own to keep the car compliant with their needs

 

...so basically the exact opposite of the German auto industry.

 

The sad fact is there is no economic justification for the standards I am proposing, and I can't see a reason they would actually be implemented (other than heavy government regulation, for which there is huge disincentive, considering how many jobs demand for new cars generates), but if you really want 'new' cars to be truly better than 'old' cars, that's how you would achieve it.

 

Inbuilt obsolescence will be the nail in the coffin for a mass market 'new' car trying to gain any sort of status. If a car's complexity is unthoughtfully executed, it will quickly disappear onto the scrapheap. It is not like today's "classic" cars where you can have cars that suck but can still be kept on the road by virtue of how simple they are.

 

Every feature added is another point of failure, these points of failure can be compensated through better manufacturing techniques, better design to make fixing the failure easy, and also better design to stop that failure impacting on the rest of the car's functionality.

 

But what we often have instead are cars where the points of failure are daisy-chained, and the quality of each feature is just about good enough to get the car past its warranty period, by which point it's a ticking time-bomb.

 

I think this is partly why Japanese cars have a reputation for reliability, not just because they have a lower failure rate, but because they are often built with a sense of purpose and thought. This is reflected in how virtually every bolt is 10mm, or how many new car buyers are repeatedly mailed to be asked what they didn't like about the car so the next iteration can be improved.

Edited December 25, 2016 by epoxi

[K1FFLOM]

You took the words right out of my mouth.

100% agree with you in everything there !!

 

 

One direkt example is the automatic (electronic) handbrake on VWs:

If you can not turn off the automatism on the car itself then how can you replace the rear brake-pads without a lap-top and the equivalent software for the vehicle ?

Edited December 25, 2016 by K1FFLOM

[Audi]

I REALLY hate the new "handbrake" in VW and Audi cars. Especially how it automatically engages when the door is opened.

[Gnocchi Flip Flops]

Had an argument the other day with a guy I play destiny with, he's not really a car person but likes cars, you know the sort lol.

 

Anyway the argument started when he asked what car I drive, I told him a 2007 skoda Octavia vrs estate and he just started laughing, I asked him what was up and he was like why the f*ck you got a 9 year old car. FML!

 

Seriously this then started an hour long ramble from him why new is always better. And then about 20 mins of me trying to get him to see sense that that's not always correct until I finally decided it was pointless as no matter what I said he just wouldn't listen so i muted him hahaha

I hate how there's to be a focus on how new a car is. "Oh it's a '14" "No it's a '16, new bruh" as if it really f*cking matters especially if the car they're talking about has been the same for several years. People really do annoy me when it comes to cars.

 

I really wish people could just focus on what makes a car special regardless of its age. On Instagram I follow like 2000+ car pages, it's crazy lol especially considering how rarely I actually use the page now. But on days when I do I could go from looking at new cars on DuPont Registry to gawking at bespoke vintage icons on Classic Cars Chasers (very beautiful page: link) because I like just don't care. They're cars. If they're great they're great. If they suck, they suck.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Scaglietti

[DangerZ0neX]

I REALLY hate the new "handbrake" in VW and Audi cars. Especially how it automatically engages when the door is opened.

But that's a really handy safety feature that should be standard on all modern cars with electric handbrakes, how is that supposed to be bad?

[sivispacem]

I wish I knew what was so wrong with normal handbrakes we needed to replace them with idiotic switches anyway. Can't say I've ever had a problem with one in well over 10 years of driving.