Old vs. New

[Gnocchi Flip Flops]

One thing I've noticed and one thing that pisses me off within the car community is the tendency to ridicule others for liking the newer cars. I like all types of cars, they all pretty much interest me but I talk about the newer cars a lot. In response there seems to be a bit of snobbery. Like you're more of a car enthusiasts than me because you like cars that are older than the ones I'm crazy about right now, as if I'm not into older cars myself. Some people will flat out assume that I'm just another one of those "spotter" types or kids crazy about ostentatious super cars and anything that's shiny and new or people will subtly mention it, like passive aggressively. No lie, not to be vulgar, it just makes me want to say stfu right then and there.

 

Like I don't get it. I'm not about this old vs. new crap, I like all kinds of cars. Variety is the spice of life from my perspective. I understand there are people who are more partial to tuners or simple sports cars or classic muscle, etc. I have no problem with that. It's the snobbery. Like, you're not better than me because you're into older cars. And stop assuming that just because I'm crazy over modern cars that I'm not into older cars because I'm into everything. The only thing I'm not into is stance.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Scaglietti

[HeavyDuke]

because I'm into everything.

Thats what she said.

 

 

Seriously though, i like old as well as new cars just like you. Especially the new breed of supercars/hypercars or just the next gen sports cars of whatever the hell you want to call it 'the overal shape of these high end cars simply look really good to me and the sound of the V8's being used in a lot of them' , and todays erra of muscle cars.

 

People shouldn't force their opinion onto anyone. If somebody says old cars suck or new cars all suck, well guess what? Your personality sucks.

 

My fav looking cars 'ever since i was a child' were 3rd gen firebirds '. So now i got one '86 trans am WS6 package with front/rear disc brakes' and i'm rebuilding the entire sucker until the point were it nearly won't show any signs of use.

 

Some like this youngtimer, love that erra of muscle cars. They think its awesome that i'm restoring it. And then there are people who aren't really into third gens but still think it cool somebody puts time into restoring this old car.

 

And then there are 'those people' don't understand why i'm putting so much time and money into an old outdated gas guzzler.

 

'Those people' however will always be there. They don't 'understand' anything that they aren't intrested in. Their view, their opinion is fact in their mind and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

You can either annoy yourself about their dickhead like mentality or look at them and feel bad for them not understanding another ones passion/opinion.

[Outcast]

It's not a matter of Old vs New, it's the fact that the "New" is seen as a status symbol or an accessory for those people. They're liking the "New" for all the wrong reasons, they're not into cars, they're into the lifestyle that expensive cars signify. That's why people sh*t on the kids who only like the shiny new supercars and disregard anything that's a generation past its sell-by-date. Their mentality is always about the latest and the greatest, f*ck anything that came before it, and even if they were singing praises for the 458 suddenly it's a piece of junk and you're poor if you don't have the 488. Those aren't car guys to me, those are pieces of sh*t who pretend to be car guys because cars are an indicator of wealth.

[Polyphony]

Well said.

[DangerZ0neX]

It's how some people tend to be, back then cars used to be pretty basic and their manufacturers prioritized design and performance over safety and comfort, this is why you see so many pretentious wanna-be car "enthusiasts" who want to be contrary and say that the modern M3 is sh*t as compared to the 1990 M3 e30.

 

Here's the thing, every car manufacturer shifted goals because their target market and general regulations have changed, you can say that you prefer an older model because it is stiffer and more down-to-earth than the newer models, but if you claim that perfectly fine modern models are sh*t because they don't appeal to your niche taste then you really are a phony.

 

If you asked me two years ago if I think that the Camaro is sh*t even though I think that the Mustang is better in every way, I would say no, it is for those people who want musclecars that are more raw and has weight. If you asked me now if I prefer the Camaro or the Mustang, I'd say the Camaro because Chevrolet now catered to the modern market's needs and gave out a muscle car with great value and the exact same performance you would expect from an M4 GTS.

 

I'm in the same place as you, Scag. People need to chill the f*ck out and not be annoying about their taste, just take the model you prefer and keep it to yourself, we're all excited about cars so let's get along instead of fighting.

[Svip]

But if I keep it to myself, how will I share my excitement?

 

I am probably the wrong person to ask about old vs. new, given my very particular taste in cars. But I feel it will be likely that I will in the future open up to other types of cars.

 

I am certain a lot of modern cars are well-built, but they just don't interest me. They are not my cup of tea, and therefore I tend to ignore them.

 

I only have a problem with modern Citroëns, because I feel they lack what was quintessentially Citroën, and that modern Citroën seems to have abandoned its roots for the sake of advertisement.

 

When I hear about BMW spending two years, doing all they can to restore Elvis Presley's old 1957 BMW 507, it warms my heart, that some companies would go to such great lengths to restore a classic model of theirs. Citroën would never do something similar for an old D-model.

 

 

 

And it frustrates me further with Citroën, because I am a huge fan of their classic models. Back when they were Citroën. Today, Citroën is as good as dead.

[Outcast]

just take the model you prefer and keep it to yourself, we're all excited about cars

 

But if I keep it to myself, how will I share my excitement?

 

Lol. Yes, if we keep it to ourselves then there is no need for any car forum or discussions. We should all just sit quietly at home contemplating the cars we like and never discuss it with anyone for fear of disagreement and conflict!

 

 

Anyway, Scags, look at it this way. You're a Mustang driver that has yet to crash his car whilst exiting a Cars & Coffee. You're getting sick and tired of people and their Mustang jokes because you know that YOU'RE not dumb enough to pull the sh*t that OTHER Mustang drivers pull. Nonetheless, it still doesn't change the fact that we've seen a helluva lot more Mustangs crash when exiting car meets than any other car model, otherwise, there wouldn't be the joke in the first place.

 

Okay, let's use a music metaphor here. The cars we all rave about are the Greatest Hits and the ones you're currently defending are the band's new singles which, while good, has not yet stood the test of time. It isn't a "New vs Old" thing as you've stated, it's a "New vs Good" thing. No one really gives a sh*t about the E21, it's all about the 2002Ti and the E30. Same with Porsche, no one really gives a sh*t about the G-Series or 996 next to the venerable 964 and 993. That doesn't mean the E21 or 996 are bad cars, they both have accolades and positive reviews from publications at the time, they just haven't held up well against what has come after. Look at the Ferrari 430 or Lamborghini Gallardo. Both great cars but neither have really held up well next to their successors. Put them next to a 458 or Huracan and it's immediately clear that they're just not that good. It's just fads and trends, good in the moment but a doubtful legacy. Of course, it's your prerogative to like what you like but perhaps instead of accusing people who prefer the Greatest Hits to the latest singles of being snobs, you should step over to our side to see how things look from this end.

[SouthLand]

It's not a matter of Old vs New, it's the fact that the "New" is seen as a status symbol or an accessory for those people. They're liking the "New" for all the wrong reasons, they're not into cars, they're into the lifestyle that expensive cars signify. That's why people sh*t on the kids who only like the shiny new supercars and disregard anything that's a generation past its sell-by-date. Their mentality is always about the latest and the greatest, f*ck anything that came before it, and even if they were singing praises for the 458 suddenly it's a piece of junk and you're poor if you don't have the 488. Those aren't car guys to me, those are pieces of sh*t who pretend to be car guys because cars are an indicator of wealth.

There is nothing else to say. You sir nailed it.

 

I also have to say that i prefer older cars than new ones

[Murciélago]

I told a kid that I liked the Murcielago more than the Aventador and I got called a hipster -_-

[HeavyDuke]

I told a kid that I liked the Murcielago more than the Aventador and I got called a hipster -_-

Murcielago,First gen Dodge Viper> Everything after that so far IMO. These cars simply looked apart if you ask me.

 

The SE30 SE however will always be my fav looking Lamborghini though. And this color fits it so well.

[Gnocchi Flip Flops]

I told a kid that I liked the Murcielago more than the Aventador and I got called a hipster -_-

Yeah that sh*t annoys me. At a car show people wonder why I'm getting photos of some of the older exotics while there's a brand new 675LT sitting over there. Yes I love the 675LT but 1) It's crowded and 2) I'm here for all of the cars, not just the new most expensive ones lol.

 

It goes both ways I guess. You've got people who think you should only like newer stuff and you've got people who think you should only like older stuff. Meh.

 

But in all honesty, I prefer the Murcielago too if it hasn't been modified in any way. No way to describe how much I hate Murcielagos with those tasteless spoilers or blacked out taillights, ugh.

[Misumi]

Here's a prime example of the pointless animosity in car culture.

 

 

 

Both sides sh*tting on the Rat Rod and the Lamborghini, as well as basically anything else in the video. Let me just pull a comment someone made on that video for laughs.

 

These are not true car guys , they are just concerned about an image. The rat rod is a piece of total sh*t, it cant corner, it can handle, it is not made of fine materials , its rusty and junky, ITS ONLY ABOUT AN IMAGE . These people are so fake . They just hate what they know they will never be able to own. Lamborghini's are hand built , are painstakingly built to exacting measures and some image tough guys just talking sh*t cos he thinks it make him look cool. True car guys would be interested in the lambo. Get over yourself. You are comparing a broken pay phone to a new i phone, its called advancements, and if that dont concern you than you are just as fake as these guys.

So many things wrong at once. But all that really needs be pointed out is him labeling Freiburger as a non enthusiast. He was only the Editor in Chief of Hot Rod Magazine with numerous personal builds, but apparently not a car person.

 

It's easy to get riled up over the abundance of sketchy comments, but my tip is just to disregard most of it especially if you're seeing it online. Most of the online commenters have no experience with automobiles beyond video games and movies. The good news is these Negative Nancys are rare in person. If you frequent meets and shows, the community is quite respecting and exciting, and everyone gets along. It's the online community that has that toxic touch.

[Rewdalf]

As someone who works as a valet driver, and gets to drive a lot of these "new" cars.

 

I just have to say, I hate them.

 

The styling is always either outlandish or bland.

Vehicles that were once great now look boring, like the Cherokee, Range Rover... even the Pathfinder and Explorer now just look like soccer mom SUVs...

 

There are about five million driver aids, everything is automatic and I rarely see a manual...

The radios and virtual consoles are annoying as hell, like I just want a simple knob that says "volume" or "temperature" instead of having to scroll through ten menus to get to what you want.

Don't even get me started on cars with automatic braking or driver alerts...

Having to park those damn things is annoying as hell. Like, the gate opens automatically when you drive up to it. Don't lock the brakes up on me, it gives me a damn heart attack.

Yes, I know I'm close to the curb. I have to be to scan the ticket in... Stop beeping at me...

 

And all these new automatic transmission shifters...

Lincoln has this weird button deal going, and I'm always grabbing at a shifter that isn't there...

Chrysler, Land Rover, and Jaguar have a dial... No matter how much you pretty it up, it looks cheap... It's stupid, like having a washing machine dial on your console...

 

Now, if anyone took this seriously, well. You're partially right.

I just cherry picked all of the worst things I could think of.

I still like new cars. Not all of them. Hell, not very many of them...

But just because I don't like them doesn't mean they aren't good.

 

I just prefer older vehicles. They're (sometimes) easier to work on. More simply designed.

Better looking, of course. But that again is an opinion.

I mean, I bet when a lot of these older cars were new themselves there were groups of people who thought they looked "too new" or ugly...

 

TL;DR

I don't hate new cars, but I prefer older ones.

[Audi]

I like both new and old cars, but I agree a lot of the people who gravitate towards the newest cars (at least in the luxury and exotic segments) care more about the status symbol of the newest car than the performance or history of the brand. I notice this a lot on the old Audi forums that I used to frequent. For example the people that gravitate towards the UrS4 vs B5 S4 vs B6/B7 S4 vs B8 S4.

[Polyphony]

[email protected] "You're not a car person if you don't like the cars I like".

Or "the more expensive, the better."

I can tell that quite a few of you know the second isn't true, simply by experience.

[DangerZ0neX]

I think it's safe to say that both sides have an equal amount of bad apples, on one hand we have people who say that the old Mustangs are sh*t because they're old, and on the other hand we have people saying that the new Bimmers are sh*t because they added more safety and luxury features as well as appealing to a broader market.

 

Honestly, I don't give that much of a damn, give me something fun to drive and comfortable to sit in with a nice audio system for my rock tunes, I'll praise it either way.

[Gnocchi Flip Flops]

^ Same here, lol. I'm that simple too. Old or new, it really depends on the character of the cars themselves.

[Lurch]

I think new cars are just rather boring to drive. Overly boosted steering or brakes. Electronic everything. Want to have some fun in one? Rest assured, some kind of annoying driver aid will ruin your time. Ever seen someone complain about hitting "ice mode" when driving a newer car on an autocross course or a track? Yeah, no thanks.

Now granted, I don't want to go old enough into things that have carbs, manual brakes, or drums. Modern tech is definitely good to a point. I don't like most of the archaic suspension designs that really old cars seem to have (live axles or semi trailing arms). Or archaic steering boxes instead of proper racks.

On both of the 2 cars I primarily drive (a 1990 Mazda Miata and a 1991 Honda CRX Si), the only driver aid either of them has is a vacuum booster for the brakes. No power steering, no ABS, no traction control. Neither of them even really have certain modern amenities like air conditioning, cruise control, or air bags (the Miata at least has a radio and seats that slide). But they're modern enough where they need to be. Both have modern multipoint fuel injection, 4 wheel disc brakes, rack and pinion steering, and nice independent suspension (double wishbone front and rear for the Miata and double wishbone front/trailing arm rear for the Honda).


For the most part, from a standpoint of pure potential, newer cars are better. They're faster, more comfortable, and more efficient. Engines that can make what was once seen as tremendous amounts of power while barely sipping fuel. The latest and greatest improvements to steering and suspension geometry that (hopefully) make for cars that can be driven fast pretty easily. Transmissions that shift lightning fast (or that shift like butter if you find something that's still a manual).

There's certainly a lot of pros there. There's probably also an equal amount of cons. Bigger brakes and bigger tires ultimately mean more expensive wear items if you are into any kind of fast driving. Sometimes expensive software to negate certain intrusive driver aids so that you can race certain, newer cars in the first place. A lot of modern direct injection engines seem to call for pulling the intake and carbon blasting after so and so amount of miles. I think that's annoying. As for aftermarket, parts for newer cars just aren't as readily available compared to older stuff where it's completed saturated with fairly inexpensive parts.

For what I want to do, I can go 8 or 9/10's the speed for 1/4 the price of my cars; new equivalents. And have a lot more fun doing it. That's probably the biggest factor.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Lurch

[Dottie]

I too think that cars these days have just become rather boring to drive. Yes there are safety benefits of all of the tech they are stuffing into cars these days, but in my opinion, it just sucks the fun right out of it. Not everyone wants to have as much control of a vehicle as some car enthusiasts want, but I feel like I will gravitate to an older car for my next purchase rather than something new because of the inherit lack of technology and driving aides older cars tend to have.

 

Having a relatively modern car (didn't have a choice) with a minimum level of tech and aides even to 2010 standards (ESC, ABS, TCS that I always turn off, hydraulic power steering, Ford sync that doesn't work), I find that at least the ability to override certain features in modern cars (like traction control) better than forcibly having it on all the time (which inevitably becomes a deal breaker if I cannot disable certain features I find inhibiting to my driving style).

 

Styling wise, its a complete grab bag of both good and bad. I've seen my fair share of horrid looking older cars and brand new cars, but I do find myself gravitating more towards the late 80s - 90s styles when it comes to vehicles in general. Just like clothes, car design comes and goes with the era.

[epoxi]

Modern car wishlist:

- Heavier steering

- Instant throttle response

- Let people buy a manual

- Better visibility (cameras don't count)

- Stop making wheels bigger and tyres thinner, if people want that they can go aftermarket

[Dottie]

Modern car wishlist:

- Heavier steering

- Instant throttle response

- Let people buy a manual

- Better visibility (cameras don't count)

- Stop making wheels bigger and tyres thinner, if people want that they can go aftermarket

Looks like you're going to be wishing for quite a long time with the current trends

[Cudwieser]

Modern car wishlist:

- Heavier steering

- Instant throttle response

- Let people buy a manual

- Better visibility (cameras don't count)

- Stop making wheels bigger and tyres thinner, if people want that they can go aftermarket

Why the heavier steering? Isn't that a bit counter-productive? I can understand less power assistance but even a small car needs some degree of mechanical assist. Imagine an SUV with no power steering. The steering wheel would need to be the height of the windscreen to make turning bearable. The sportier the car, much the same idea due to the grip of the wheels unless you want terminal understeer due to no front end grip.

[Dottie]

 

Modern car wishlist:

- Heavier steering

- Instant throttle response

- Let people buy a manual

- Better visibility (cameras don't count)

- Stop making wheels bigger and tyres thinner, if people want that they can go aftermarket

Why the heavier steering? Isn't that a bit counter-productive? I can understand less power assistance but even a small car needs some degree of mechanical assist. Imagine an SUV with no power steering. The steering wheel would need to be the height of the windscreen to make turning bearable. The sportier the car, much the same idea due to the grip of the wheels unless you want terminal understeer due to no front end grip.

 

I think he means assisted steering but not having the ability to literally turn the wheel by placing your pinkie finger on the wheel. Floaty light steering is great for parking lots and low speed cruising, but not that good everywhere else because you get practically zero road feel especially with large vehicles (and sometimes very little responsiveness too).

 

I like power assisted steering, but if the steering wheel is way too easy to turn (especially in highway plus speed situations), its a total turn-off for me.

[sivispacem]

The weight isn't the issue as much as the complete lack of feeling. Plenty of manufacturers falsely weight their electric steering systems to try and give the illusion of feel, but electric steering is universally pretty terrible. In contrast, I've used some light hydraulic PAS systems which are fabulous.

[epoxi]

Yes, I meant the steering feeling as opposed to the pure effort required. But I do find having some heaviness by default also helps you tell when the steering becomes light (e.g. if you turn to match the camber of the road).

 

While my car is essentially just a FWD Corolla with a different body, I think Toyota really nailed the handling feel. The steering wheel is the perfect size and has lots of grip, and the steering feedback is impeccable, I can feel every pebble, bump and change in slope on the road surface through the wheel instantly, but not in an intrusive way, it just sends the message as a vibration through the wheel depending how tight you are holding it, yet it's light and comfortable enough for the steering to be appropriate for long journeys too (my butt on the other hand is a different matter, modern cars definitely have comfier seats).

Edited December 5, 2016 by epoxi

[Svip]

modern cars definitely have comfier seats

You've clearly never sat in a proper Citroën.

[Cudwieser]

 

modern cars definitely have comfier seats

You've clearly never sat in a proper Citroën.

 

DS, SM, CX or GX?

[epoxi]

 

modern cars definitely have comfier seats

You've clearly never sat in a proper Citroën.

 

Of course old school purpose-built luxury cars have excellent comfort given it didn't matter how many geese were plucked, cows were skinned and hydraulic valves were blown to deliver a living room on wheels.

 

But with modern materials, sports and economy cars can be driven for hundreds of miles without discomfort, while it used to be widely accepted that those segments were just plain painful to drive.

[HeavyDuke]

 

Of course old school purpose-built luxury cars have excellent comfort given it didn't matter how many geese were plucked, cows were skinned and hydraulic valves were blown to deliver a living room on wheels.

Stop it man, you are making me hungry. I want to eat some cows right now.

[Dottie]

modern cars definitely have comfier seats

Id like to say that this isn't always the case. For me, it isn't leather vs cloth vs whatever other material, its the actual shape of the seat that determines comfort. The softness of the seat is of a lower priority. I've literally sat on bare sheet metal and carbon (because racecar) and found it more comfortable than some modern car interiors because the normal car had a horrid seat shape.

 

Seats are a very, very subjective topic, and at least with my experience, I cannot say that older cars are necessarily better/worse than newer ones. I've sat in pretty comfy seats and quite awkward seats in both newer and older cars.

 

I do love myself a genuine leather interior in a luxury car. Screw the environment, it's well worth it