General US Politics Discussion

[El Dildo]

wow, more hard-hitting youtube documentaries
good post.

Reality Winner (aka Reality Loser)

sick burn.

do you write your own jokes or did you hire Jeff Ross to think of that gem?

[Spaghetti Cat]

TBH it was New York Sen. Chuck Schumer, he writes Jimmy Kimmel's monologs as well.

 

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/jimmy-kimmel-got-a-hand-from-chuck-schumer-in-his-fight-against-obamacare-repeal

[Svip]

Knowing Trump, someone worse than Price will take his place.

Actually, knowing Trump, a replacement won't be found. A replacement for Kelly, the former head of DHS, hasn't been found yet. And from what I've read, it doesn't appear as if the Administration is moving fast on a replacement.

 

But at least now, Trump has found a new adversary: US citizens in desperate need of help. Stay classy, Mr President.

[darthYENIK]

I seriously dont think he realizes Puerto Rico is an American territory. Im not kidding. I imagine White House staff is not going to be like, Sir, Puerto Rico is an American territory. Because A) Hes the f*cking president, he should know what territory his country consists of, and B) if he truly doesnt know, who has the balls to tell him he didnt know something thats common knowledge, making him look dumb.

[Fallcreek]

Trump's such a massive piece of sh*t, I can't believe some people on this earth are heads over heels for this guy.

[Piggsy pls]

Jesus, if his comments towards Carmen Cruz and the people of Puerto Rico in a time like this don't convince others that he's an awful person, I don't know what will.

[Creed Bratton]

Jesus, if his comments towards Carmen Cruz and the people of Puerto Rico in a time like this don't convince others that he's an awful person, I don't know what will.

Nazi apologism didn't work. That should have been the final hint that he's a terrible human being. The reason that some people still like him is because they're also terrible human beings.

[make total destroy]

Uh-oh...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lmao you would think this sh*t is real

[Eutyphro]

lmao you would think this sh*t is real

Do you think it is oke to lie for purposes of manipulating public perception and propaganda, to further anarchy? Why would we believe whatever you say about your own movement, when you don't believe in honesty as a principle? I'm not really inclined to believe whatever a movement of mentally unstable and deranged people say about themselves. If their self perceptions were more accurate, they wouldn't live the life they do.

[Spaghetti Cat]

lmao I do.

 

 

Lmao why didn't the local new guy want to see the footage?

 

Lmao why didn't the ABC Nightline producer want to see the footage?

 

Lmao why did the Police then arrest the people in the video?

 

Lmao because it was all fake?

 

Lmao where were all the fascists?

 

Lmao Ben Shapiro is a fascist?

 

Lmao the orthodox Jew?

 

Lmao you have no idea what your protesting, right?

 

Lmao like these fine folks?

 

 

[Creed Bratton]

You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you? You actually trust Steven Crowder? That guy is a certifiable imbecile.

 

It's already been explained to you that AntiFa is not an organization. It's utterly ridiculous and quite stupid to take a video of some people, claim that they're AntiFa and that they're violent and present absolutely zero evidence for it. Steven Crowder's words about the context of the video is not evidence. When they're talking about guns and knives how do you know they're not talking about self-defense? How do you know that they're not talking about weapons just because it's a fun topic, or because the guy asked them to talk about it? You don't, because the context of the video is provided by Steven Crowder. You have to take his word for it.

If Steven Crowder wants to be taken seriously he should release the full unedited footage. Until then, I suspect that he's basically doing the same thing that Project Veritas is doing - footage manipulation in order to sell fake news to people dumb enough to fall for it.

Edited October 1, 2017 by The Yokel

[El Dildo]

lmao

[Clem Fandango]

I'm not really inclined to believe whatever a movement of mentally unstable and deranged people say about themselves.

lol dude you literally get your political views from a psychologist on youtube. Having mental issues is a prerequisite for joining your political clique.

 

 

 

If their self perceptions were more accurate, they wouldn't live the life they do.

A life of going to university, attending protests and memeing on the internet? Because that's what most anarchists do in a day.

[Eutyphro]

your political clique.

I'm not part of a clique.

 

you literally get your political views from a psychologist on youtube.

Some of my views.

 

Considering politics from the perspective of psychology is an interesting and relevant angle, considering the relationship between personality and political opinion for instance. It's exactly the angle that made me move away from political views that are utopian or totalitarian.

 

A life of going to university, attending protests and memeing on the internet? Because that's what most anarchists do in a day.

A life where they don't respect those who have different political views from them.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Eutyphro

[Clem Fandango]

 

your political clique.

I'm not part of a clique.

Yes you are. You aren't the only person I know that's accepted the word of the lord and saviour, Jordan Peterson. You are all saying the exact same things, all of it ripped from Peterson verbatim.

 

 

 

Some of my views.

Literally your entire political consciousness is an attempt to mimic Peterson.

 

 

 

Considering politics from the perspective of psychology is an interesting and relevant angle, considering the relationship between personality and political opinion for instance. It's exactly the angle that made me move away from political views that are utopian or totalitarian.

The reason he holds such status among his devotees his because he helps them deal with their problems. So yeah, if you're healthy and sane, you won't join the Peterson cult.

 

He doesn't so much 'consider politics from the perspective of psychology' so much as he pathologises anyone who disagrees with his cookie-cutter middle class politics. He'd be right at home in the Soviet government funny enough.

 

 

A life where they don't respect those who have different political views from them.

You've been calling anarchists 'scum' and 'losers' for months and again parroting a guy whose whole shtick is pathologising his political opponents. Physician, heal thyself.

[Eutyphro]

a guy whose whole shtick is pathologising his political opponents.

I actually agree with this, and have thought about that. It's problematic to pathologize everyone on the far left. It's less taboo to do so for people on the far right though. There's too much concentration on the excesses of political opinion. But the media is exclusively focusing on the excesses, which agreviates the issue. Peterson isn't perfect, but he isn't specifically worse than other political commentators.

 

You've been calling anarchists 'scum' and 'losers' for months

I don't think anarchists are scum. I think anarchism is interesting. I think Antifa are bad though. But you are possibly right I should mellow out my use of language and choose a more positive frame. That's what I've been thinking myself. I'm stuck in too much negativity due to political frustration really. But it has been contagious ever since Trump got elected. If I was ever unnecessarily harsh then I apologize really.

 

I'm also genuinely interested why you think Antifa isn't problematic. Are there Antifa actions which you have considered problematic? How do Antifa contribute to a political solution?

Edited October 2, 2017 by Eutyphro

[make total destroy]

Lmao why didn't the local new guy want to see the footage?

 

Because Stephen Crowder is full of sh*t.

 

 

Lmao why didn't the ABC Nightline producer want to see the footage?

 

 

Because Stephen Crowder is full of sh*t.

 

 

Lmao because it was all fake?

 

 

 

 

Lmao why did the Police then arrest the people in the video?

 

You know you can pay these people called 'actors' to dress up in costumes and perform a role in front of cameras, right? By the way, I've only known you for like 10 minutes and you could easily be a cop or a snitch, but here's your knife with my fingerprints on them, oh and let's not mask up so they...don't know what hit them? I mean they'll be able to identify us very easily but hey, let's go stab some people or whatever, because antifascists in the U.S. definitely stab people all the time. Ar--are you holding a camera right now?

 

ANTIFA INFILTRATED #EXPOSED

 

It is almost certainly 100% bullsh*t. It's Mike Cernovich style 'journalism' at best coming from an alleged 'comedian' and verified piece of sh*t.

 

 

Lmao Ben Shapiro is a fascist?

 

 

No, Ben Shapiro is not a fascist, hence there wasn't really any outward antifascist contingent there to oppose him. No one masked up, there was no black bloc, no militant direct actions, nothing. Shapiro is largely disliked by folks within 'alt-right' neo-Nazi circles and regarded as a 'nice personservative'. His Islamophobia, transphobia, and other bigoted positions are useful to the 'alt-right' neo-Nazis, as he offers a more palatable, entry-level version of their views--often referred to as 'alt-lite'--that helps draw disaffected middle-class white men towards white supremacist and fascist positions. I honestly don't care if he's denied a platform or whatever. Nothing of value would be lost.

 

 

Lmao you have no idea what your protesting, right?

 

 

What am I 'protesting'? I'm certainly not protesting anything in Berkeley given that I'm a few thousand miles away on the other side of the country.

 

Do you think it is oke to lie for purposes of manipulating public perception and propaganda, to further anarchy?

 

I don't really care about public perception enough to lie or manipulate.

 

Why would we believe whatever you say about your own movement, when you don't believe in honesty as a principle?

 

 

I don't accept the premise of your question.

 

I'm not really inclined to believe whatever a movement of mentally unstable and deranged people say about themselves.

 

EVERYONE I DON'T LIKE IS MENTALLY ILL. Also having any sort of mental illness makes you a bad person by default.

 

If their self perceptions were more accurate, they wouldn't live the life they do.

 

 

 

I just go through my day swinging bike-locks at passer-bys and pepper-spraying innocent bystanders. It's all I do when I'm not working 45 hours a week as a paid protestor and bad guy. I'm only in it for the money and sweet black hoodies.

[Saggy]

No, Ben Shapiro is not a fascist, hence there wasn't really any outward antifascist contingent there to oppose him. No one masked up, there was no black bloc, no militant direct actions, nothing. Shapiro is largely disliked by folks within 'alt-right' neo-Nazi circles and regarded as a 'nice personservative'. His Islamophobia, transphobia, and other bigoted positions are useful to the 'alt-right' neo-Nazis, as he offers a more palatable, entry-level version of their views--often referred to as 'alt-lite'--that helps draw disaffected middle-class white men towards white supremacist and fascist positions. I honestly don't care if he's denied a platform or whatever. Nothing of value would be lost.

 

I have a buddy who can't seem to formulate an original thought because every broad statement he makes that sounds like some conservative talking point gets followed up by, "You should check out this guy named Ben Shapiro." I haven't read or listened to anything from the guy personally, but it seems like he's pedaling some something people find more "moderate" than Breibart or something like that. But it is funny he suggests I listen to the guy when from the sounds of it I've already heard everything he has to say. I feel like people like that which disguise themselves to appear more 'moderate' to coax people over to the right are more dangerous than you think. In the meantime, people like my buddy don't actually even believe in the crap they're espousing if you look at their actual actions, but seem to just like to repeat the talking-points because they sound good. In his specific example, he's got family and friends that would be poorly effected by republican policies and he talks about the "government" being assholes all the time, but then in the same breath will perpetuate things like the boot-strap mythology and talk about "anchor babies" and illegal immigration. It's almost like people reference him more similarly to the way people make fashion statements than they actually think anything he's saying is worthwhile. As if it's a, "Here, listen to this guy, his views are a carbon copy of my own," even though they're really not.

[El Dildo]

another record-setting mass-killing by a disgruntled white guy.

 

can't wait to hear the usual suspects complain about how Liberals and BLM are the real terrorists.

tell us again about the violent Left...

[make total destroy]

 

 

 

I have a buddy who can't seem to formulate an original thought because every broad statement he makes that sounds like some conservative talking point gets followed up by, "You should check out this guy named Ben Shapiro." I haven't read or listened to anything from the guy personally, but it seems like he's pedaling some something people find more "moderate" than Breibart or something like that. But it is funny he suggests I listen to the guy when from the sounds of it I've already heard everything he has to say. I feel like people like that which disguise themselves to appear more 'moderate' to coax people over to the right are more dangerous than you think. In the meantime, people like my buddy don't actually even believe in the crap they're espousing if you look at their actual actions, but seem to just like to repeat the talking-points because they sound good. In his specific example, he's got family and friends that would be poorly effected by republican policies and he talks about the "government" being assholes all the time, but then in the same breath will perpetuate things like the boot-strap mythology and talk about "anchor babies" and illegal immigration. It's almost like people reference him more similarly to the way people make fashion statements than they actually think anything he's saying is worthwhile. As if it's a, "Here, listen to this guy, his views are a carbon copy of my own," even though they're really not.

 

 

I don't think Shapiro intentionally tries to draw people towards the 'alt-right' and iirc has actually disavowed the 'alt-right', but most of them have probably watched his videos or read his articles before moving on to outright white nationalist figures. Some of them use his videos and articles to bridge a gap between the 'alt-right' and more traditional conservative types when it suits them, though.

Edited October 2, 2017 by make total destroy

[Saggy]

 

 

 

 

I have a buddy who can't seem to formulate an original thought because every broad statement he makes that sounds like some conservative talking point gets followed up by, "You should check out this guy named Ben Shapiro." I haven't read or listened to anything from the guy personally, but it seems like he's pedaling some something people find more "moderate" than Breibart or something like that. But it is funny he suggests I listen to the guy when from the sounds of it I've already heard everything he has to say. I feel like people like that which disguise themselves to appear more 'moderate' to coax people over to the right are more dangerous than you think. In the meantime, people like my buddy don't actually even believe in the crap they're espousing if you look at their actual actions, but seem to just like to repeat the talking-points because they sound good. In his specific example, he's got family and friends that would be poorly effected by republican policies and he talks about the "government" being assholes all the time, but then in the same breath will perpetuate things like the boot-strap mythology and talk about "anchor babies" and illegal immigration. It's almost like people reference him more similarly to the way people make fashion statements than they actually think anything he's saying is worthwhile. As if it's a, "Here, listen to this guy, his views are a carbon copy of my own," even though they're really not.

 

 

I don't think Shapiro intentionally tries to draw people towards the 'alt-right' and iirc has actually disavowed the 'alt-right', but most of them have probably watched his videos or read his articles before moving on to outright white nationalist figures. Some of them use his videos and articles to bridge a gap between the 'alt-right' and more traditional conservative types when it suits them, though.

 

 

Yeah I think the reason people use voices like his to try to bridge that gap is because there really isn't a voice speaking out for the "white majority" in truth. You have middle-class White America fully represented (even though most have deluded themselves into thinking they're "poor" ), but in reality nobody is talking about how 90% of the problems that effect African Americans are issues for all poor people across the board of ethnicity. So it kind of makes any voice that acknowledges that in the slightest sound like some bastion of profound wisdom to them.

[Eutyphro]

 

I just go through my day swinging bike-locks at passer-bys and pepper-spraying innocent bystanders. It's all I do when I'm not working 45 hours a week as a paid protestor and bad guy. I'm only in it for the money and sweet black hoodies.

You still haven't really convinced anyone why we should listen to your propaganda packaged as petulance. All you are doing is continuing being a silly child that avoids giving answers.

 

EVERYONE I DON'T LIKE IS MENTALLY ILL. Also having any sort of mental illness makes you a bad person by default.

It does appear to me that the people who go to a lot of protests and systematically behave really badly there are more likely to be mentally ill. I've clearly not said mental illness makes you a bad person. I didn't really call them 'mentally ill' though, but 'mentally unstable and deranged', which isn't really a medical diagnosis, but an observation from their behaviour.

 

Shapiro is largely disliked by folks within 'alt-right' neo-Nazi circles and regarded as a 'nice personservative'.

Rather because he is a jew.

His Islamophobia, transphobia, and other bigoted positions are useful to the 'alt-right' neo-Nazis,

You can criticize me for 'pathologizing' antifa, but the tendency to deem every view you happen to disagree with a 'phobia' is equally a case of psychologizing really. The difference is also that there is no evidence for it. There's no evidence Shapiro has these views due to fear. The evidence that antifa are deranged is widely available really though.

I honestly don't care if he's denied a platform or whatever. Nothing of value would be lost.

There are more people valuing him than you really. Far more.

And why would what you value have to be what we should go by? I only see reasons not to do so really.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Eutyphro

[Triple Vacuum Seal]

Keep in mind that some of the tactics of antifa are more counterproductive/problematic than the movement itself. Antifa has a terrible PR problem and many of its supporters indulge in infantile fantasies of progress through mild violence, but the movement isn't necessarily a rotten one as you suggest. Anti fascism is broad and even subconscious for some folks ever since WWII. You don't need to run around carrying signs to be an antifascist.

 

 

On one hand, polarization is corrosive. But on the other hand most of the people radicalized on the far-right as a result of antifa antagonism (or anything really) would have probably been closeted fascism-sympathizers otherwise...or more susceptible to it at least. So finally we're no longer denying that fascism is growing directly from elements in America's ultraconservative establishment. We as a public can finally see that we have a problem with dangerously outdated political attitudes being applied to modern problems.

 

 

Like I heard someone say once, this post-Trump phenomena had the effect of "turning on a light switch in a dark room full of cockroaches". Fascism sympathizers and their white nationalists precursors were invisible at first, but now they've scattered about and made themselves visible for once. The radically nostalgic racist wing of the Republican Party had sown the ideological seeds for these alt-right movements a long time ago. Colin Powell complained about that more-rotten wing of the Republican party for years.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Triple Vacuum Seal

[Creed Bratton]

From r/The_Donald

 

[Clem Fandango]

Peterson isn't perfect, but he isn't specifically worse than other political commentators.

The average political commentator doesn't say that socialism is nothing but petty resentment and go on about the Communist take over of the culture while holding up a copy of 1984. He also doesn't bill himself as a political commentator so much as the only sane man cutting through the bullsh*t, hence most of his fans learned about him from his appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience.

 

 

 

It's problematic to pathologize everyone on the far left.

Bit of an understatement, I think.

 

 

 

There's too much concentration on the excesses of political opinion. But the media is exclusively focusing on the excesses, which agreviates the issue.

I don't know what you mean, the MSM literally never has leftists on If you just mean the fact that they're reporting on all the Communists and Nazis beating each other up on the streets of the US, well it's kind of a big deal.

 

 

 

I'm also genuinely interested why you think Antifa isn't problematic. Are there Antifa actions which you have considered problematic?

Well yeah, a general refusal to a commit to anything more sophisticated than physical confrontation with the radical right. But that's a general problem with the anarchist movement While I'm personally not interested in street level resistance and think we should probably start making a serious effort to design policy, breaking things and punching Nazis is more or less defensible. But their efforts would be better spent with more consequential crimes. If you're going to break the law publicly and symbolically, better to steal things and give them to poor people than to just break a shop window. Breaking a shop window is better than nothing though, and physically crowding Nazis is probably better than nothing too.

 

 

It does appear to me that the people who go to a lot of protests and systematically behave really badly there are more likely to be mentally ill.

Yeah not really though? Smashing windows isn't really a big deal. Beating up Nazis is uhh controversial but if you haven't noticed nobody really gives a sh*t. 'Mildly amused' describes a lot of peoples' attitudes towards antifa.

 

 

 

How do Antifa contribute to a political solution?

They don't really, but who else is doing anything about the far-right?

 

Now when I say 'antifa' I mean 'black blocs who bunch people' because of course antifa is broader.

[Eutyphro]

 

Peterson isn't perfect, but he isn't specifically worse than other political commentators.

The average political commentator doesn't say that socialism is nothing but petty resentment and go on about the Communist take over of the culture while holding up a copy of 1984. He also doesn't bill himself as a political commentator so much as the only sane man cutting through the bullsh*t, hence most of his fans learned about him from his appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience.

I've never seen him hold up a copy of 1984 really. He was a socialist himself, but has become somewhat of an anti leftism activist, because he thinks the decline of traditionalism in Western culture has become damaging to society. I think he has a point there, but on the other hand I also think leftist values or leftist intellectualism in general should not be condemned as harshly as he does. He did an interview with Camille Paglia a few days ago, who has a much more nuanced fair judgement of leftist intellectualism, and the different strands within it. Camille Paglia condemns the PC authoritarians, who started misusing French philosophy for the sake of careerism in the 70's, and turned it into an English language monstrosity. But she respects genuine old school Marxists. In the interview he implicitly admits his understanding of leftist intellectual strands is too limited. Jordan Peterson has his limitations as a commentator, but I don't know who doesn't. He also opened me up to a range of fascinating ideas.

 

Bit of an understatement, I think.

I think the idea of considering whether political ideas can be pathological is based on the idea that what is good for the individual has to coincide with what is good for the community. So if you have social ideas that are unwilling to compromise with the ideals and interests of other people, but are only interested in forcing your own values on society, which is an increasing trend, then you are practicing a pathological sort of egotism.

 

I also don't think Peterson has ever pathologized the entire far left. Really just the ones who misbehave very badly. This is pretty hilarious:

 

 

 

I don't know what you mean, the MSM literally never has leftists on If you just mean the fact that they're reporting on all the Communists and Nazis beating each other up on the streets of the US, well it's kind of a big deal.

I think I didn't elaborate on that properly. What I would intend to say is that on the internet specifically there's a very toxic atmosphere of partisan sh*t flinging and attention seeking through edginess. There's an ever decreasing amount of genuine dialogue, and an ever increasing amount of arbitrary disagreement. When I say I don't want to be caught up in it, I mean I for instance am not interested anymore in some garbage political angle about the Vegas shooters whiteness, or something utterly meaningless and stupid such as that, because no value can be found in that. Or the other side creating some narrative about him being a pussy hat wearing liberal who wanted to shoot conservatives. It's a pathological, yes I'm calling it that, climate of petty conflict. And in most of these news events I would have read far more of the stupid details and theories than I have with this one. I should probably be on the internet less really.

 

They don't really, but who else is doing anything about the far-right?

If it doesn't move us toward political solutions then they are just completely silly tantrums, and a contrarian lifestyle choice with no positive ideal at all.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Eutyphro

[Triple Vacuum Seal]

I think I didn't elaborate on that properly. What I would intend to say is that on the internet specifically there's a very toxic atmosphere of partisan sh*t flinging and attention seeking through edginess. There's an ever decreasing amount of genuine dialogue, and an ever increasing amount of arbitrary disagreement. When I say I don't want to be caught up in it, I mean I for instance I am not interested anymore in some garbage political angle about the Vegas shooters whiteness, or something utterly meaningless and stupid such as that, because no value can be found in that. Or the other side creating some narrative about him being a pussy hat wearing liberal who wanted to shoot conservatives. It's a pathological, yes I'm calling it that, climate of petty conflict. And in most of these news events I would have read far more of the stupid details and theories than I have with this one. I should probably be on the internet less really.

 

The biggest factor in how much bullsh*t you encounter on the internet is where you go. If you go to say...much of Reddit, 4chan, edgy message boards in general, etc., then you'll get more bullsh*t. If you stick to solid sources and analysis, then you encounter far less bullsh*t. No one's denying that there are ignorant twats on 'the left'. As for the offline world, the same 'where you go' rule applies and even then it's a matter of what kind of ignorance you have the most tolerance for.

 

I'll take pseudo-leftist liberal hipsters over the alt-right any day but that's just me. The ignorance will be there regardless. You don't have to pick a side, but you do have to pick your poison, which is honestly a dilemma to be grateful for given the presence of a choice (in the west at least)...insofar as choices tend to exist.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Triple Vacuum Seal

[Creed Bratton]

Who would have thought that Buzzfeed would be the one to break this story: https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/heres-how-breitbart-and-milo-smuggled-white-nationalism?utm_term=.mgABzyknz#.nozPZxEBZ

 

So yeah, what sane people have always known, the alt-right are literally Neo-Nazis and racists.

Edited October 7, 2017 by The Yokel

[mr quick]

another record-setting mass-killing by a disgruntled white guy.

 

can't wait to hear the usual suspects complain about how Liberals and BLM are the real terrorists.

tell us again about the violent Left...

 

Didn't take Fox long to spin this:

 

 

 

Bonus:

 

 

[sivispacem]

Even by Infowars standards that's f*cking hilarious.