General US Politics Discussion

[Creed Bratton]

Except it was BLM.

You were just told that it wasn't and we discussed this a few pages ago where I posted the articles about it. Go back and read that before you start spewing nonsense.

 

Anyway, finally more people are starting to call Trump a fascist: http://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-arapio-pardon-is-fascist-theres-no-other-way-to-say-it

 

And he absolutely is, there's really no denying that now. Well, you could technically deny it, but people also deny that the Earth is round. We call those people idiots.

And it was so obvious even during the campaign, yet so many people still voted for this maniac. And some people here still support him. Brain-dead, all of them.

Edited August 27, 2017 by The Yokel

[Shermhead]

Sivis is bullsh*t, just like most of the other brainwashed liberals on here. When will you people realize CNN (and no I don't watch Fox News) isn't a credible news source?

Black Lives Matter is nothing but a hate group. They're the klan with a tan. You people act like the KKK is still relevant, yeah maybe in the 1960s they were but those days are over. Nowadays it's all about hating whites and cops, all brought to you buy an organization that claims to want equality when they're nothing but a hate group. There's countless proof of it and you people keep denying it...

Edited August 27, 2017 by Shermhead

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

Anyway, finally more people are starting to call Trump a fascist: http://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-arapio-pardon-is-fascist-theres-no-other-way-to-say-it

 

Germany has a corker at the moment.

 

 

 

Sivis is bullsh*t, just like most of the other brainwashed liberals on here. When will you people realize CNN (and no I don't watch Fox News) isn't a credible news source?

Black Lives Matter is nothing but a hate group. They're the klan with a tan. You people act like the KKK is still relevant, yeah maybe in the 1960s they were but those days are over. Nowadays it's all about hating whites and cops, all brought to you buy an organization that claims to want equality when they're nothing but a hate group. There's countless proof of it and you people keep denying it...

 

We're not discussing Sivis or liberals, we're dismissing that footage and the misuse of it!

 

If you wanna argue with individual members, take it to PM and I'm sure Sivis will deal with it in the correct way....

Edited August 27, 2017 by Uncle Sikee Atric

[Shermhead]

Another great example of BLM hate is when those black people kidnapped and tortured that disabled white guy. Those people very obviously were apart of BLM or at the very least support it..

[Uncle Sikee Atric]

Stop kicking the hornet's nest!

 

BLM are probably responsible for some things that are pretty questionable, but listing everything in a huge shopping list of posts is going to only end with one final result.

 

Check your facts, check your sources and make sure evidence is available, and credible. Then come back and post it, so we can discuss it in a suitable way, rather than 'this'....

[sivispacem]

Except it was BLM.

No, it absolutely wasn't. It was the Trayvon Martin Organizing Committee, during the MillionsMarch back in December 2014. Quite simply, if you assert it was BLM, you are factually wrong.

 

In my country, the Netherlands, there are estimated between 200 to 300 right wing extremists

How are we defining "right wing extremist"? Are the SGP right wing extremists? They're certainly pretty extreme (I mean, banning women from voting? Madness.) What about the PVV? What about the NVU, which is literally run by neo-Nazis?

 

Sivis is bullsh*t

Given I just significantly shortened your ban, I don't think that was a very clever thing to do.

[Eutyphro]

How are we defining "right wing extremist"? Are the SGP right wing extremists? They're certainly pretty extreme (I mean, banning women from voting? Madness.) What about the PVV? What about the NVU, which is literally run by neo-Nazis?

NVU would qualify. I'm talking about actual neo-Nazis. We happen to have quite few of those here. 200-300 is the estimate of the NOS Dutch state media and NRC newspaper.

 

SGP and PVV are pretty extreme and right wing, sure. But I don't think the radical left has increased since the PVV became prominent. The radical left was rather large even when the reactionary right was almost nonexistent and completely irrelevant. There's a quite large squatter and radical leftist scene, that exists regardless of whether there is fascism or reactionary right wing pseudofascism to confront.

 

The most prominent Dutch left wing extremists, RARA, were active in the 80's and 90's when neo-Nazism and the reactionary right were completely irrelevant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Anti-Racist_Action

Edited August 27, 2017 by Eutyphro

[sivispacem]

NVU were fairly active through most of 80s weren't they? There's a myriad of other smaller parties that have faded in and out of existence too.

 

I don't think the radical left is simply a reaction to right-wing extremism.

[Triple Vacuum Seal]

The fact that the radical left is only a response to neo-Nazism is itself a dubious idea anyway.

 

It's not a response to right wing extremism, but Antifa is. What do you think the 'fa' in antifa means? That's the problem. You pretend the radical left is virtually nonexistent outside of Antifa and other insurrectionists. Antifa are a bunch of left wing hooligans who brawl with right wing hooligans.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Triple Vacuum Seal

[Cebra]

Except it was BLM. They hate cops and there's plenty proof of it.

You know, when you consider that that the only way Trumpists can rationalize their political philosophy is by denying universal facts and spouting pure, unadultered bullsh*t, maybe it's an indication that they are objectively on the wrong side of history.

 

You were just presented a fact - a fact, and no rebuttals citing the virtues of postmodernism will change the fact that what you just linked was objectively not BLM. And yet you still come back and say "except it was". You are not alone in this - when any aspect of Trump from his policies to his morals are questioned, I only ever see his hardline supporters reject any presented arguments. No discussion, no rebuttal - "fake news" or "libnice person BTFO" or "lol brainwashed by cnn". This is not just edgy teenagers being anonymously edgy online - it's middle-aged, relatively educated Americans who let this sh*tshow bring out the worst in them. There's no excuse for being caught up in this cult of personality any longer. Two of my uncles voted Trump. I disagreed with them, they told me they wanted to give him a chance - and they did. First one jumped ship after he bombed Syria. The second made it a bit longer, and told me he had pretty much lost all faith in him after his response to Charlottesville. They both went into this hating the man they voted for, but hoping he could bring the change they think America needs. I disagree with their decision to vote for him, but I respect that they never got caught up in the cult. There are a disturbing amount of his supporters past the point of no return.

 

No matter whether this stupidity ends through Trump finishing his term or getting impeached, the fact that about 25% of the USA was unilaterally willing to put aside all reason and reality to support a complete and utter embarrassment of a man will live in infamy.

[Eutyphro]

 

The fact that the radical left is only a response to neo-Nazism is itself a dubious idea anyway.

 

It's not a response to right wing extremism, but Antifa is. What do you think the 'fa' in antifa means? That's the problem. You pretend the radical left is virtually nonexistent outside of Antifa and other insurrectionists. Antifa are a bunch of left wing hooligans who brawl with right wing hooligans.

We were talking about the G20 riots though, which wasn't in opposition to fascists, but to globalization and capitalism among other things. But by now I've lost track of what your point was.

[Shaundi.]

Trump doing Trump things, as usual.. With Sessions support.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/trump-set-roll-back-limits-military-gear-police-49462793

 

http://www.npr.org/2017/08/28/546743742/trump-administration-lifts-limits-on-military-hardware-for-police

 

Why the f*ck would the police need bayonets and armed aircraft for? I guess you'll never know when a jay walker might pull a 50 cal out of his arse huh.

 

And why do American Republicans have a raging boner for total law and order and a police state? Unbelievable.

[Eutyphro]

Why the f*ck would the police need bayonets and armed aircraft for?

To subsidize the military industrial complex, probably. That's probably the incentive causing dumb decisions like this to be made.

[jpm1]

so yesterday Texas with 214 house bill says that raped women abortion won't be done if they didn't suscribe an insurance. i don't get it. i mean what is this for. more responsability toward public finance? and today Trump says transgenders won't be recruited in the USA army. well even if i'm sure that new law will be broken by US justice (because USA is justice) for me that decision is pure obscurantism. what is the base of such decision. the Bible. there's nothing about transgender in the Bible, wth?

[SaveTheZombies]

Trump doing Trump things, as usual.. With Sessions support.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/trump-set-roll-back-limits-military-gear-police-49462793

 

http://www.npr.org/2017/08/28/546743742/trump-administration-lifts-limits-on-military-hardware-for-police

 

Why the f*ck would the police need bayonets and armed aircraft for? I guess you'll never know when a jay walker might pull a 50 cal out of his arse huh.

 

And why do American Republicans have a raging boner for total law and order and a police state? Unbelievable.

I think it's probably because the commotion it causes isn't in their back yards but the back yards of people who don't usually vote for them. They also started the "war on drugs" which started this brand of police militarization.

That and the military industrial complex: those billions of dollars allocated have to go someplace. I'd prefer more of it allocated to R&D but this is what I'd expect from this admin. Sessions probably told Trump he could get a photo op in an APC.

[Spaghetti Cat]

^AFAIK this is surplus equipment such as the MRAP. Not really billions and billions, as it's already been paid for.

 

 

 

The fact that the radical left is only a response to neo-Nazism is itself a dubious idea anyway.

 

It's not a response to right wing extremism, but Antifa is. What do you think the 'fa' in antifa means? That's the problem. You pretend the radical left is virtually nonexistent outside of Antifa and other insurrectionists. Antifa are a bunch of left wing hooligans who brawl with right wing hooligans.

We were talking about the G20 riots though, which wasn't in opposition to fascists, but to globalization and capitalism among other things. But by now I've lost track of what your point was.

 

Hang on now, actual progress this is good.

 

I'm glad that we can finally agree that Antifa is a bunch of hooligans. Now, I'd say that the hooliganism is for a political objective, but just recognition is fine by me. baby steps and all. What needs to happen is the separation of the violent elements from those with legitimate grievances. I'm not sure that the 'left' (if I can use that wide term) cares to separate themselves from the violent actors. I think it garners attention for their causes and has the appearance of having a wider group of participants than are actually there. TV news doesn't really cover a peaceful protest, but a couple thugs bashing heads sure does bring in the cameras. This is where our foreign friends are getting a bit misled. There isn't much popular support for groups like Antifa here in the USA. These are all the weirdos, oddballs, and wanna-be's collected together under one banner. They are the fringe of the fringe, a bunch of losers. Inconsequential people, if they weren't so dangerous. Which is why we should be cutting off funding for these violent groups and send a message that if you riot you will be prosecuted. Simple as.

 

 

There is one thing that I've noticed (and I don't mean to turn this into the police thread so apologies if this is OT but...) is how the police handle some of these riots between Antifa and others. For example, in Virginia and just the other day in Berkley there were violent altercations between the two groups. Yet in Boston there was no real violence like in the others. The difference I think is police presence. The Police stood their ground in Boston, while in Virginia and Berkley the order came to stand-down the police. In both cases where the police stood-down there was riots and violence, when they separated the groups there was none. I would seriously look into the mayors and city councils at both spots, why the order to stand down? Do they really want violence to happen in their cities? I sure hope not. Hopefully other cities and towns take notice and do what Boston did with separating the two sides and keeping them separated.

 

 

 

OT: best wishes Texas, hope that rain lets up for you guys!

Edited August 28, 2017 by Spaghetti Cat

[Eutyphro]

Hang on now, actual progress this is good.

Antifa are a bunch of left wing hooligans who brawl with right wing hooligans.

 

I'm glad that we can finally agree that Antifa is a bunch of hooligans. Now, I'd say that the hooliganism is for a political objective, but just recognition is fine by me. baby steps and all.

Don't expect this to go anywhere though. Anyone who doesn't approve of throwing sharp glass objects at the police is considered a 'boot licking pig loving defender of Starbucks windows', and nothing meaningful will come out of discussing degenerate Antifa behaviour with them. A Dutch rioter at the G20 who threw glass at the police was sentenced to almost three years in prison today. Pretty nice.

 

The most laughable thing is when they appeal to constitutional rights and complain about 'state repression' when at the same time they claim the right to arbitrarily break the law at their own whim. To them the law is something that only binds other people, not them, because in their childish fantasy their conception of justice overrides any other possible norm that should still be strictly applied to other people though. They're pathetic childish losers.

 

There isn't much popular support for groups like Antifa here in the USA. These are all the weirdos, oddballs, and wanna-be's collected together under one banner. They are the fringe of the fringe, a bunch of losers.

The political atmosphere at colleges and the support for Antifa in the mainstream media is an indication that they are increasingly less a fringe though, and leftist radicalism seems on the rise in the US really.

 

Some videos from Berkeley yesterday:

 

Lol, look at this pathetic excuse for a human being:

 

 

Here they stole a journalists phone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBkI5nKQkQA

 

And if you take the time to talk to these people it's shocking how idiotic and fundamentally horrible they are:

 

 

More highlights (or lowpoints?) from yesterday at Berkeley:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGWmzGoQzgU&t=442s

 

Meanwhile at CNN:

Edited August 28, 2017 by Eutyphro

[Clem Fandango]

Don't expect this to go anywhere though. Anyone who doesn't approve of throwing sharp glass objects at the police is considered a 'boot licking pig loving defender of Starbucks windows', and nothing meaningful will come out of discussing degenerate Antifa behaviour with them.

Yeah except it's not that you don't approve- I don't expect anyone to approve and in fact there's only like two members here including me who like seeing the police get bashed up. It's that you are actively applauding police, elevating this to the biggest issue in our society, and making post after post about black clad degenerate losers who think they're so cool but they're really not even!

 

 

 

A Dutch rioter at the G20 who threw glass at the police was sentenced to almost three years in prison today. Pretty nice.

Poor pig

 

 

 

The most laughable thing is when they appeal to constitutional rights and complain about 'state repression' when at the same time they claim the right to arbitrarily break the law at their own whim. To them the law is something that only binds other people, not them, because in their childish fantasy their conception of justice overrides any other possible norm that should still be strictly applied to other people though. They're pathetic childish losers.

And what dialogue is there to be had with people who froth at the mouth constantly? When you use the same adjectives over and over again you come off like you can't even contain your resentment. I mean look at this sh*t, are you crying? It's insane.

 

If the state doesn't wanted to be binded, maybe don't enshrine their limits and act like they're the sacred basis that gives them the right to govern? I've made no such sacred promises. Rights aren't conditional, either.

 

 

 

The political atmosphere at colleges and the support for Antifa in the mainstream media is an indication that they are increasingly less a fringe though, and leftist radicalism seems on the rise in the US really.

hahah, yeah.

[Tchuck]

Leaked chats show Charlottesville Marchers were planning for violence..

 

That is, the right-wing neonazi f*cks were planning for violence on an internet platform. Including discussion using vehicles as a weapon.

They then celebrated when that one woman as murdered.

 

I'm not going to hold my breath and wait for the DoJ to ask for the IPs of everyone involved. Or of everyone using Discord in general, since it's been establishing that visiting a website where something violent may have been discussed constitutes evidence that you were also a conspirator. Right?

 

 

The political atmosphere at colleges and the support for Antifa in the mainstream media is an indication that they are increasingly less a fringe though, and leftist radicalism seems on the rise in the US really.

 

"Seems on the rise" != fact, though. Only piece I could find on "the rise of leftist radicalism", or simply left-wing violence, was some "news" sites that sourced a youtube video they created themselves, and some interviews with right-wing people who are paranoid about the rise of the left. Could you source your statement?

Edited August 29, 2017 by Tchuck

[Triple Vacuum Seal]

And if you take the time to talk to these people it's shocking how idiotic and fundamentally horrible they are

The problem with this comment is that it's a blanket statement. "Idiotic and fundamentally horrible" is quite typical for characterizing people in general. Moreover, it's an ad hominem that doesn't speak to the fundamental objectives of the Antifa. Their tactics are just outright counterproductive. I don't disagree with the high level objectives of the Antifa. It's quite intuitive to not trust state authorities, reject commitments to capitalism, reject radical centrism, question the consequences of corporate-led globalization, etc. I take issue with their naive tendency to dismiss the popular image of their movement and leftism more broadly in favor smashing sh*t for thrills. Sure they shouldn't be out making nice. It's good they don't. But Antifa can at least get involved in a more strategic level than just breaking sh*t, hootin', and hollerin'. This problem is clear when Antifa arrives on the scene with no fascists to fight. They really got it easy over here compared to the Antifa in Russia.

 

 

If you want to denigrate the dogmatic value of private property in flagrant disregard for the law, then at least do it by dispossessing multinational corporations of their property in a way that benefits the broader community instead of just smashing sh*t. By doing so, it forces state power to reveal its actual role in a capitalist society each time that property is reassigned to wealthy firms in a very public way. I'm no expert on these things but it's just a thought. The whole Robbin Hood approach is probably beyond the scope of Antifa and is nearly impossible without formal leadership. It's just worth noting that radical leftism will never gain traction in the US without incubating a proto-socialist mgmt. of productive processes in various places around the country to flaunt exactly what the incredulous masses are missing out on.

 

 

Cultivate a superior lifestyle and voters will demand nothing less. This requires competencies in law, economics, defense, and IT...largely competencies with scant support for anti-capitalism atm with some exceptions. Sure the movement for radical change must ultimately be global, but ffs building something instead of smashing windows. That gives states the pretext they need to build up their police state and crush what little opposition exists in the US.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Triple Vacuum Seal

[Eutyphro]

It's that you are actively applauding police,

If they enforce a valuable public good, such as public order, then I do.

 

I mean look at this sh*t, are you crying?

No, generally I'm smiling. I'm actually a pretty happy person, funny enough.

 

Leaked chats show Charlottesville Marchers were planning for violence..

 

That is, the right-wing neonazi f*cks were planning for violence on an internet platform. Including discussion using vehicles as a weapon.

They've been fantasizing about running over protesters ever since several BLM protests have blocked roads, and some got hit by cars. So that has turned into a meme for them. And then some alt-right idiot seemed to have acted out that meme as an act of terror, as we all know.

 

I'm not going to hold my breath and wait for the DoJ to ask for the IPs of everyone involved.

It kinda depends on whether they are memeing or planning attacks, doesn't it? There does seem to be a difference between those things.

 

Could you source your statement?

I wasn't talking about an increase in violence, though that seems to me to be the case as well, on both sides. Antifa engages in a lot of assault, but the cases of politically motivated murder seem generally to be coming from the far right. Rather what I am pointing out is how many institutes of higher learning have been completely highjacked by postmodern identity politics and political correctness. According to professor of moral psychology Jonathan Haidt that has been a development in the last few years. The sympathy among students for militant leftism seems to be increasing strongly as well, especially as a reaction to Trump. At the same time white supremacism is also becoming increasingly popular among young men, and white identity politics is on the rise. There's really a complete escalation of political polarization at the moment actually. Jonathan Haidt has statistics on the increasing polarization in US politics. But recently it's escalating to entirely new levels.

 

 

And if you take the time to talk to these people it's shocking how idiotic and fundamentally horrible they are

The problem with this comment is that it's a blanket statement. "Idiotic and fundamentally horrible" is quite typical for characterizing people in general. Moreover, it's an ad hominem that doesn't speak to the fundamental objectives of the Antifa.

It is an ad-hominem, but it really seems that if you talk to them their characters generally seem to be pretty rotten.

 

This problem is clear when Antifa arrives on scene with no fascists to fight.

They'll just pretend any other person that is not a far left authoritarian is a fascist and harass that person. A notable example being Bret Weinstein, a Bernie Sanders supporter, who spoke out against banning white people from attending Evergreen college for a day. Which caused hordes of SJW's to banish him from his job resulting in him getting fired.

 

It's just worth noting that radical leftism will never gain traction in the US without incubating a proto-socialist mgmt.

Radical leftism will never truly gain traction in the US, because it is at odds with the dominant libertarian element in US culture. Reformist social democracy can't even get traction in the US.

 

Sure the movement for radical change must ultimately be globa

Instead of 'radical change' maybe we should start by stopping going mad, and sticking to what has been proven to work, and be pragmatic about the new problems we face, such as climate change, and technology induced unemployment. This dumb trope where societal progress is achieved by a bunch of half wits hitting the streets and demanding their ignorance becomes policy is part of the problem.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Eutyphro

[Tchuck]

 

They've been fantasizing about running over protesters ever since several BLM protests have blocked roads, and some got hit by cars. So that has turned into a meme for them. And then some alt-right idiot seemed to have acted out that meme as an act of terror, as we all know.

 

 

It kinda depends on whether they are memeing or planning attacks, doesn't it? There does seem to be a difference between those things.

 

Come on man, seriously? How can you handwave right-wing extremist threats as "memes and sh*tposting" while spewing fire and hatred towards the left-wing extremists for having a website where a protest was organized and no mention of violence or planning of violence was ever conducted?

 

For the right-wing, who actually killed someone with actions they are literally recorded as planning, "It depends, maybe they were just joking, we don't know if they were serious, it became a meme" apology.

For the left-wing, who are nowhere on record planning to attack police officers and break glass windows "f*ck those losers, they deserve it, the DoJ is completely right in tapping their website and finding out the IPs of everyone who has visited it because they were obviously conspiring to attack the police and break glass windows".

 

Can you not see the inconsistency there?

[Clem Fandango]

 

And if you take the time to talk to these people it's shocking how idiotic and fundamentally horrible they are

The problem with this comment is that it's a blanket statement. "Idiotic and fundamentally horrible" is quite typical for characterizing people in general. Moreover, it's an ad hominem that doesn't speak to the fundamental objectives of the Antifa. Their tactics are just outright counterproductive. I don't disagree with the high level objectives of the Antifa. It's quite intuitive to not trust state authorities, reject commitments to capitalism, reject radical centrism, question the consequences of corporate-led globalization, etc. I take issue with their naive tendency to dismiss the popular image of their movement and leftism more broadly in favor smashing sh*t for thrills. Sure they shouldn't be out making nice. It's good they don't. But Antifa can at least get involved in a more strategic level than just breaking sh*t, hootin', and hollerin'. This problem is clear when Antifa arrives on the scene with no fascists to fight. They really got it easy over here compared to the Antifa in Russia.

 

 

If you want to denigrate the dogmatic value of private property in flagrant disregard for the law, then at least do it by dispossessing multinational corporations of their property in a way that benefits the broader community instead of just smashing sh*t. By doing so, it forces state power to reveal its actual role in a capitalist society each time that property is reassigned to wealthy firms in a very public way. I'm no expert on these things but it's just a thought. The whole Robbin Hood approach is probably beyond the scope of Antifa and is nearly impossible without formal leadership. It's just worth noting that radical leftism will never gain traction in the US without incubating a proto-socialist mgmt. of productive processes in various places around the country to flaunt exactly what the incredulous masses are missing out on.

 

 

Cultivate a superior lifestyle and voters will demand nothing less. This requires competencies in law, economics, defense, and IT...largely competencies with scant support for anti-capitalism atm with some exceptions. Sure the movement for radical change must ultimately be global, but ffs building something instead of smashing windows. That gives states the pretext they need to build up their police state and crush what little opposition exists in the US.

 

tbh I think saying that smashing windows will lead to massive repression is about as meaningful as saying it will overthrow the system.

[Eutyphro]

Come on man, seriously? How can you handwave right-wing extremist threats as "memes and sh*tposting"

If they seriously coordinate violent attacks, then it should be investigated, of course. But I'm simply pointing out that posting a meme with an edgy joke is not the same thing as planning a terror attack.

 

while spewing fire and hatred towards the left-wing extremists for having a website where a protest was organized and no mention of violence or planning of violence was ever conducted?

"The Interior Ministry said the website was the “most influential online platform for vicious left-wing extremists in Germany,” and noted that it had been used for years to spread criminal content and to incite violence." https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/25/world/europe/germany-bans-far-left-antifa-website.html Or are you talking about DJ20? The website of DJ20 is definitely within the range of free speech, but the organizers seem to have possibly been engaged in illegal action.

 

For the right-wing, who actually killed someone with actions they are literally recorded as planning,

So were those people posting memes involved with the attack that occurred?

 

For the left-wing, who are nowhere on record planning to attack police officers and break glass windows

Except, in the case of the G20 riot, where they injured 80 police officers, they were probably using that platform to incite actual violence. The German justice department claims it was used to spread criminal content and incite violence. As for DJ20, I don't know what leads the US DoJ has on the organizers of DJ20 being involved with the rioting, but it seems perfectly possible from their rhetoric and statements that they were.

 

Can you not see the inconsistency there?

No.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Eutyphro

[make total destroy]

[sivispacem]

 

Can you not see the inconsistency there?

No.Really? It's pretty glaring and a vindication of everything I've said up to this point. I don't genuinely believe you're a Nazi apologist or anything silly and hyperbolic like that, but the attitude has been markedly different and I'm don't quite "get" why.

 

When shown evidence of white supremacists discussing the conducting of organised violence- more evidence then has been presented for the use of left wing forums to do so thusfar- your immediate suggestion is that it could be just unsavoury memes (really, how do you have such an in-depth knowledge of white supremacist memeology?).

 

And yet you spent three pages claiming without evidence that the DisruptJ20 website was used for planning and organising violence, including welcoming investigation into it by the DoJ and glossing over their unconstitutional fishing expedition because "well they're not doing it anymore so it's fine", and have only just this preceding post conceded that this may not actually be the case, only that it is "possible".

[Eutyphro]

I didn't really see anyone taking issue with the suggestion of extrajudicial murder of white supremacists, or that the mere fact of someone being a white nationalist turns them into a terrorist deserving of death.Nobody really thought that was morally problematic. But the mere suggestion that it is positive for law enforcement to take action against leftist extremism is completely outrageous and Erdoganlike. And then I am the one with double standard. I'm the 'inconsistent' one. Oh please f*ck off.

[sivispacem]

I didn't really see anyone taking issue with the suggestion of extrajudicial murder of white supremacists

Cute tu quoque. I suppose you'll need me to publicly condemn this too before you'll stop wrongly trying to appeal to hypocrisy.

 

But the mere suggestion that it is positive for law enforcement to take action against leftist extremism is completely outrageous

Thankfully, it's not a claim I've ever made. I would have no issue with LE actually tackling violent left-wing extremism, but rounding up journalists and fishing for visitors to a website you've now conceded there was no actual evidence was involved in violence whilst ignoring neo-Nazis planning violence and literally discharging handguns into crowds isn't "taking action against extremism".

 

Have I once said, suggested or inferred that the people actually involved in perpetrating violence should not be identified, detained and prosecuted? No, I haven't, but this fact appears to be completely lost on you such is your dogmatic obsession with trying through persistent lying, misrepresentation and the commission of multiple fallacies, I'm some kind of extreme left apologist simply for suggesting that there are more conducive uses of police time than chasing down left wing forums visitors.

 

And then I am the one with double standard. I'm the 'inconsistent' one.

The only thing that has remained consistent throughout the last three pages of responses is your complete inconsistency, up to and including repeatedly contradicting yourself, backtracking or making false claims about your own comments.

 

Oh please f*ck off.

Do you really want to play this game?

[Eutyphro]

 

I didn't really see anyone taking issue with the suggestion of extrajudicial murder of white supremacists

Cute tu quoque. I suppose you'll need me to publicly condemn this too before you'll stop wrongly trying to appeal to hypocrisy.

It says something which fights you pick. You take issue with the things you can then pander with to a specific crowd. And you'll get extremely petty to defend any of the things they might like. But if they argue for the extrajudicial murder of white nationalists you gloss over it.

 

making false claims about your own comments.

No, making false claims about my comments, and attaching ridiculous exaggerated accusations to them is what you do. I also don't really get why you still use this 'journalist' label as if every person claiming to be a journalist ever must be innocent. As if you know whether they are innocent. They were arrested because they were marching along in a group of several hundred people wantonly vandalizing, setting cars on fire, and lobbing dangerous objects at the police. Several of them have already had charges dropped.

 

I'm not informed to know whether anyone arrested was rightly arrested, and neither are you. But I'm inclined to sympathize with the effort to protect public order during the inauguration, and not with people intending to disrupt public order. I sympathize with peaceful protesters, not with rioting degenerates. But people going to jail for throwing glass at the police is unnecessary state repression right? It's completely insane.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Eutyphro

[Typhus]

Do you think Trump will take any substantial action against North Korea in light of the missile they sent over Japan? It's such strange timing, as it seems that he had entirely forgot about the whole thing and then the North Koreans decide to do this.

The way I see it though, judging by his performance on domestic matters, is that he's more inclined to use fiery rhetoric but actually do very little. I can't see this recent provocation actually moving him to war.