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Raavi

General US Politics Discussion

Recommended Posts

Svip

Maybe this question was asked already, but what are the chances that on 19 December Hillary will be elected?

Zero. As I wrote earlier, the electors are picked by their party. So the electors that are pledged to vote Trump/Pence will be loyal to the Republican Party, I doubt they'll change their votes.

 

But even if some show defect, Clinton would still need 36 electors to defect, so I am giving this - at present - zero chance of happening.

 

But of course, President-elect Trump still has plenty of time to do something outrageous.

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Not A Nice Person

 

 

Alternatively, you can ask; perhaps the United States is too big for its own good?

This is an interesting question. Possibly, and maybe one of the primary reasons we've been so hesitant to add on more states, regardless of the various territories and commonwealths and their status within US sovereignty, ie. Puerto Rico.

 

Actually, Federalist no. 10 provides the rationale and background for stifling the factions and differences between individuals, and the size of the republic, but it's also largely antithetical to leftist class struggle because it suppresses direct democracy.

I support dissolving the union. Secession is being talked about in California and Oregon, many of my Minnesota friends seem to genuinely want to join Canada, Texas and other southerners are always talking about it, and it seems like so many people at large are disillusioned with the US and this election did nothing to help. Sure, a few Trumpets genuinely believe (are deluded) that he'll put it on the 'right track' but now seems like the best time yet for a bipartisan velvet divorce. After all, the only thing we seem to agree on is that we want nothing to do with each other.

 

We can all work on it and get it done by 2026 just in time for the 250th anniversary.

 

Edit: speaking of native Americans, they should be given their own state (both of the Dakotas, I say) with complete autonomy. This could also come with the dissolution.

The thing about California and Oregonian succession is what will their economy be like on their own? California is a huge part of the US economy so what will it also do to the US, all in all, We have many different agendas in the US it may be best to split before violence occurs.

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Twang.

Since I'm not American, and informations and media are REALLY unprofessional here (well, not only here, but still...) , can someone explain what's going on with those protests?

 

I'm not trying to pass as a trump apologyst, but - as an external viewer - isn't the founding element of "democracy" to respect the electoral results, unless there has been forms of cheating and/or violence? Trump, as far as i know, has won fair and square.

 

I fear that protests will only increase resentment and separation inside the country, another "we are right" against "you are wrong"... but since i'm an external observer, someone may explain to me this whole thing better...

It's not just that they lost, I'd bet most or many of them aren't Clinton supporters in truth, it's that Donald Trump has enabled closeted fascists nationwide. There are already reports of Trumpets harassing minorities and women with blatant disregard for any sort of consequence...because there are none in a culture where a man who holds (or at least, espouses) those very same views is elevated to the highest seat of power. These protests are meant to show that people aren't just going let that happen, despite the recent sanctimonious calls for 'reason' and 'civility' from liberal moderates. Rest assured, the Trumpets would be doing the same if Hillary won, and there would probably be a lot more people dead. That's just the point we've reached with this election.

 

@Mion: California on its own has something like the 6th largest economy in the world. Oregon can't make the same claim, but some of the talk has them, Washington, and California seceding together. The biggest concern for Cali is that they have a huge problem with regards to their water supply, which makes a team-up with Washington almost completely necessary.

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slimeball supreme

So wait, people are actually being serious about seceding from the US?

 

I can't tell if this is hilarious or depressing.

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Svip

So wait, people are actually being serious about seceding from the US?

 

I can't tell if this is hilarious or depressing.

I doubt it's a significant quantity of people. As in, significant enough to cause a change. But hey, we were all wrong about Trump, so maybe?

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sivispacem

If you think it is purely about socioeconomic advantage, then you don't keep up with what the ultra progressive regressive gangs of self declared morally enlightened people think

Which, again, may or may not be true but I struggle to see the relevance of given comments thus far in this thread. It doesn't seem to reflect the views expressed by anyone.

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Finite

I'm actually really surprised the neocons (Never Trumper's) are getting behind him. I thought they would defect and go back to Democratic party where they came from. Who knows, this is just the honeymoon.

It's been less than 72 hours since he became President-elect. There is no reason at all to assume there will not be defections in the coming weeks.

Edited by Finite

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Triple Vacuum Seal

But surely you would agree that for all these cultures to merge peacefully, there has to be mutual respect? And there's where the problem comes in, young white people don't respect the cultures of their respective ethnicity and so don't think twice about accessorizing the cultures of others.

 

It’s the framing of this issue as being attributable to immigration, globalization, or non-white forces, that I take issue with. And you don’t seem to be doing that so yeah I agree. Contrary to the anti-immigrant narrative of outside forces compromising the domestic white identity, young white American’s lack of appreciation for their respective ethnicity is not a result of BLM, the left, feminism, the intelligentsia, George Soros, globalists, the PC movement, white guilt, etc. In fact, the so-called PC movement and white guilt are white-led movements. Broadly speaking, it’s the privileged young white Americans who get off to being offended, not necessarily the left. Those with the most serious grievances are either distracted or too uninformed to be bothered.

 

The general lack of appreciation and knowledge for one’s own heritage is widespread and by no means afflicting young whites to a greater extent than other racial groups. It’s actually worse in the black community, where kids are perceived by their peers as acting white if they are caught critically thinking, enunciating, or listening to musical acts that don’t resemble the various minstrel shows coming out of the major white-owned media outlets. Climbing the socioeconomic ladder through legitimate means seems to compromise your blackness. From Latin Americans who don’t speak to Spanish, to Lebanese-American porn stars, losing touch with one’s heritage has become a rite of passage for virtually all later generation immigrants. It’s assimilation to the extreme. Finally, whites are being asked (by each other mostly) to slightly assimilate to a country that’s only getting blacker, gayer, more Latino, increasingly Hispanic/bilingual, and interracial. And of course there’s a massive backlash.

 

 

Obama wouldn’t have been elected if he was three shades darker and spoke with any natural degree of black American anger in his tone. ‘Americanized’ has become synonymous with losing touch with one’s heritage. And it’s neither a natural nor necessary consequence of the melting pot. It’s the tacit requirement that we conform to the mishmash of ‘white’ American values…or lack thereof when we consider the fact that ‘white’ was a self-imposed label originally used to undermine the rights of non-whites, but ultimately undermines the cultural complexities and contributions of white Americans.

 

 

So yes, Irish, German, Euro Jewish, Anglo, and Italian Americans need to appreciate heritage instead of succumbing to the self-imposed oversimplification of white identity. But the premise that white Americans of all people have been stripped of their heritage by either non-white or outside forces is utterly laughable to those who have actually been victimized by cultural imperialism.

Edited by Triple Vacuum Seal

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GTA_stu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3uHOHMTqJ8

 

 

Mainstream media realize they are clowns.

 

The mainstream news media has lost so much integrity and authority. They treated Trump as a joke and openly derided him. Why? Because to 90% of celebrities, 90% of journalists, 90% of politicians that's what he was and that's what they thought of him. They didn't even begin to try and report in a fair or objective manner. They threw honest journalism out the window, and openly reported through a heavily biased lens, pressing their bullsh*t opinions.

 

The news media are deceitful, deceptive, untrustworthy frauds. "Journalists" are worse than lawyers and bankers. Absolute f*cking hacks. They really are clowns, they presented Trump as a joke but they're not laughing now.

Edited by GTA_stu

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Eutyphro

Which, again, may or may not be true but I struggle to see the relevance of given comments thus far in this thread. It doesn't seem to reflect the views expressed by anyone.

 

Well the fact that Melchior thinks I'm "removed from the struggles of PoC" because I don't think white people wearing dreadlocks is a real issue, pretty much proves my point, and how incredibly out of touch and insane some modern progressives have become. Do they really think the average African American gives one flying f*ck about the fact that a white guy is wearing dreadlocks, compared to the fact that he doesn't have a job, or is in jail? These people have become idiotic on a whole new level. Your reduction to 'socioeconomic advantage' doesn't explain at all what has been said, or what these people really believe.

 

 

The mainstream news media has lost so much integrity and authority. They treated Trump as a joke and openly derided him. Why? Because to 90% of celebrities, 90% of journalists, 90% of politicians that's what he was and that's what they thought of him. They didn't even begin to try and report in a fair or objective manner. They threw honest journalism out the window, and openly reported through a heavily biased lens, pressing their bullsh*t opinions.

 

The news media are deceitful, deceptive, untrustworthy frauds. "Journalists" are worse than lawyers and bankers. Absolute f*cking hacks. They really are clowns, they presented Trump as a joke but they're not laughing now.

 

 

From what I remember polls show that journalists have become one of the least trusted professions in the US. It also has to do with the rise of the internet, that CNN or MSNBC don't really have any grip on public opinion anymore. There's a lot of panic among msm right now about how the tactics of character assassination and complety avoiding ever discussing policy have had adverse effects. It's like they collectively think "sh*t, we have to be real journalists now and give people actual information? The corporations who own this channel hate that. What do we do now?" They're completely confused and desperate.

Edited by Eutyphro

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DareYokel

Stay classy America: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-president-supporters-attack-muslims-hijab-hispanics-lgbt-hate-crime-wave-us-election-a7410166.html

 

There's probably a bunch of fakes report as well as real ones. But they're all equally "classy".

Edited by The Yokel

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X S

As I said in the previous thread. The American Left needs to use this to purge itself of all radical elements, modernise, and appeal to those who voted for Trump. Their sanctimony, their extremism, their downright bigotry has enabled the election of a man who is very likely a sexual predator, a man who denies climate change and openly supports torture.

 

Had the political climate been less toxic, had there been real debate and real outreach to disaffected white voters, this could have been avoided.

 

Typhus, since when did you start a YouTube channel?

 

 

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El Dildo

The news media are deceitful, deceptive, untrustworthy frauds. "Journalists" are worse than lawyers and bankers. Absolute f*cking hacks. They really are clowns, they presented Trump as a joke but they're not laughing now.

I wouldn't be caught dead trying to defend the mainstream media, but to be perfectly fair, Trump is a joke...

 

George W Bush might have been president as well but he was no less of a joke during the election, during his presidency, and even now 10 years after. nobody takes Bush seriously because he wasn't a very serious guy. the jokes still stick because he's still the same oaf he always was. another ex-cocaine addict who skipped out on serving his country thanks to his fancy family coat tails and then rode his privilege into elected office.

 

virtually same deal with Trump.

we all knew Dick Cheney and Co. had their hands on the steering wheel, much like the way Trump was only in it for the contest and the show and the legacy; Mike Pence and Co. will have to actually run the administration from behind the scenes since Donald has literally no idea what he's doing.

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sivispacem

Well the fact that Melchior thinks I'm "removed from the struggles of PoC" because I don't think white people wearing dreadlocks is a real issue, pretty much proves my point

Yeah but you totally misrepresented his justification for doing so. You turned it into a ridiculous "genocide and slavery of our forefathers" straw man, when the actual issue raised was one of promoting social cohesion by not unnecessarily offending other cultures or ethnicities, which is kind of just common sense.

 

Dreadlocks aren't solely associated with Afro-Caribbean culture anyway.

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Mythical_Lotus

The fabulous Ann Coulter, a woman I would marry if I wasn't such a flaming homosexual: :lol:

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sivispacem

I don't really see what's fabulous about a professional sh*t-stirrer deeply intertwined with the white nationalist end of the paleoconservative spectrum, whose entire journalistic platform is based on hypocrisy and pig-headed ignorance.

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Audiophile

I posted this somewhere else but I realize now this is probably the better place to do it. I'm going to go on a little rant right now.

 

 

This is pathetic.

All over my Facebook and everywhere I'm seeing the same garbage.
Petition to eradicate the electoral college
Supporting protests against the election of Trump
$Demographic_group is responsible for Trump being elected
America has let us down
$Demographic_group is FUBAR now
How to leave the country for your safety
There was $conspiracy against Hillary caused her to lose the election
What about Monday? Last week? Last month? Last 6 months? Last year?
Hillary 4 Prison
Hillary is corrupt
le emails
Hillary is a warmonger
Hillary has no merit
She's better than Trump I guess
Well Trump is awful so I guess you can vote for her
Idk I don't really like her
Choosing between two sh*t sandwiches
America is f*cked either way xd
Wow could this get any worse?
Two of the same jokers
Jill Stein for the first female president!
le Bernie Sanders
Hillary is unqualified compared to those two
This is sad as f*ck. I'm looking at the same people- the exact same people- who were bashing her on Monday, who have been criticizing and demonizing her for months, and they're freaking out when she loses the election.
When Bernie lost the Democrat nomination, people were out in droves to blame everyone. Women are ignorant! Minorities are ignorant! Southerners are ignorant! Constant Hillary bashing for months. Now what is it? Women have betrayed us! Minorities screwed us with their turnout! Southerners are ignorant and useless for voting for Trump and they should be eradicated!
You don't like her losing now? After the active and aggressive campaigning against her for months, you deserve Trump, you deserve an inane reality TV star for spamming propaganda against a Secretary of State and Senator with a clear vision for America. There's no way she should have lost to this guy. But nope, it's everyone else's fault. And now you want her back. If you hated her that much, vote her out in 4 years. I'd rather 4 years of Clinton than 4 years of Trump.
Pathetic
It's almost as if they didn't think through the lesser of two evils argument, and ended up with the greater evil. The part they didn't think through was the consequences to the things they actually wanted to accomplish. Progress on climate change is going to be set back, health care will likely be gutted, and the supreme court will have potentially 3 nominations that will have decades long influence on court cases like Citizens United. They definitely thought through the dismantling of the Democratic party and Hillary Clinton, but they didn't think through how that would affect the American political landscape.
It's almost aggressive ignorance and lack of foresight. There was so much opposition to her that the idea of her bringing benefit was completely dismissed, but that the definitive destruction that would happen without her was ignored.

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GTA_stu

 

The news media are deceitful, deceptive, untrustworthy frauds. "Journalists" are worse than lawyers and bankers. Absolute f*cking hacks. They really are clowns, they presented Trump as a joke but they're not laughing now.

I wouldn't be caught dead trying to defend the mainstream media, but to be perfectly fair, Trump is a joke...

 

In your personal opinion. Clearly though a lot of people took him seriously, which the media discounted and played down. They were shocked by the result because they weren't looking at it from a fair standpoint. They were looking at it mainly from their own standpoint. Same thing with Brexit. It's an incredibly dumb thing, to predict a nationwide vote, based on the anecdotal evidence of who you and people you know will be voting for. But that's pretty much what they did. Although that's almost too generous, because it makes it seem like it was incompetence alone that made them not see it. But it was more than that, because they deliberately misrepresented the facts and deliberately tried to skew things in order to influence the public. The news media aren't journalists they are propagandists.

 

A lot of people saw it though, and Trump won a lot of votes precisely because he was so hated by the media. In fact if the media had been more fair and neutral, he might not have actually won.

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Audiophile

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The news media are deceitful, deceptive, untrustworthy frauds. "Journalists" are worse than lawyers and bankers. Absolute f*cking hacks. They really are clowns, they presented Trump as a joke but they're not laughing now.

I wouldn't be caught dead trying to defend the mainstream media, but to be perfectly fair, Trump is a joke...

 

In your personal opinion. Clearly though a lot of people took him seriously, which the media discounted and played down. They were shocked by the result because they weren't looking at it from a fair standpoint. They were looking at it mainly from their own standpoint. Same thing with Brexit. It's an incredibly dumb thing, to predict a nationwide vote, based on the anecdotal evidence of who you and people you know will be voting for. But that's pretty much what they did. Although that's almost too generous, because it makes it seem like it was incompetence alone that made them not see it. But it was more than that, because they deliberately misrepresented the facts and deliberately tried to skew things in order to influence the public. The news media aren't journalists they are propagandists.

 

A lot of people saw it though, and Trump won a lot of votes precisely because he was so hated by the media. In fact if the media had been more fair and neutral, he might not have actually won.

 

 

I agree. The media gave Trump way too much attention and essentially did a lot of his advertising for him. A lot of people voted for Trump simply as a "f*ck you".

But he is a joke. I view him as basically the male Paris Hilton. A large portion of what he ran on was being a TREMENDOUS businessman. Multiple bankruptcies. Inherited money from a father worth 400 Million on top of his "small loan". Lost just under a billion in one year in the 90's with Trump Airlines. Countless business failures like Trump Vodka. Countless scams like Trump University. The list goes on and on.

 

I saw one Trump voter get interviewed and she said the most important issue for her was the environment. Yet she voted for Trump who believes climate change is a Chinese hoax and wants to pull out of the Paris Agreement. Who has already started his transition team by appointed a leading climate change denier to the EPA. She voted for that over a candidate that was for installing under a billion solar panels within the first year. LOL

The media and poll projections were so utterly flawed. I think it deluded a lot of people into thinking that a protest vote with a third party or not voting at all/writing in BS was a safe thing to do because Clinton would win regardless. But when you look at the results, you see just how much every vote really did matter. Clinton lost Michigan by 0.3%. Similar story in other key states that she needed to win in order to win the election.

 

The Clinton campaign massively miscalculated. So much arrogance and hubris. For one, they ignored the rust-belt states that would have won them the election. Trump flipped so many. People were hungry were change and Trump spewed enough hate and BS promises.

 

He is already appointing lobbyists to his transition team. The very ones he campaigned against. I sincerely hope that Trump is a wake up call to both parties (yes, even the Republicans despite winning all branches of power) for 2020.

 

EDIT: Just want to correct myself, Myron Ebell is not on his transition team. He is, however, rumoured to be shortlisted for appointment to head the EPA.

Edited by Audiophile

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Original Light

I think people should give the man a chance. He's no angel, and he's not perfect by any means, but rioting and protesting is only going to divide America even more than it already has. It may be irreparable at this point.

 

Before Trump is inaugurated, President-elect Trump, President Obama, and Secretary Clinton should try and calm people down. Some individuals may say it shouldn't be Hillary's or Obama's responsibility to help fix this mess. Although, a majority of these protesters at unrest are liberals, democrats, Hillary supporters, Bernie supporters, and millennials. They have a better chance than anyone else to talk to these people, and calm down the situation.

Edited by Original Light

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Audiophile

I don't think he deserves a chance. He ran a campaign primarily based on hate and lies. However, there is no other option at this point. Wishing for Trump to fail is like wishing for the pilot to purposely crash a plane we are all on.

 

His transition team is just LOL. It's already happening. This fool has appointed his 3 children and son-in-law to his transition team.

itBHIBM.png

 

Myron Ebell, leading climate change denier, likely for the EPA. However, nothing official yet. Rudy for AG...sweet jesus.

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mr quick

 

 

 

Mainstream media realize they are clowns.

 

The mainstream news media has lost so much integrity and authority. They treated Trump as a joke and openly derided him. Why? Because to 90% of celebrities, 90% of journalists, 90% of politicians that's what he was and that's what they thought of him. They didn't even begin to try and report in a fair or objective manner. They threw honest journalism out the window, and openly reported through a heavily biased lens, pressing their bullsh*t opinions.

 

The news media are deceitful, deceptive, untrustworthy frauds. "Journalists" are worse than lawyers and bankers. Absolute f*cking hacks. They really are clowns, they presented Trump as a joke but they're not laughing now.

 

 

Sorry to break it to you, but Trump is widely regarded as a bad joke to most sensible people in europe too, regardless of how the media portrays him. "portray" meaning of course: "playing a clip where he says something asinine which is unacceptable from a politician".

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Mythical_Lotus

I saw one Trump voter get interviewed and she said the most important issue for her was the environment.

Yes, because that one elusive woman is such a representative sample among Trump supporters.

You should watch interviews on Youtube with authentic Trump voters, you'll see the environment is the least of their priorities.

 

Glenn Greenwald: Why Did Trump Win? Blame the Failed Policies of the Democratic Party

Edited by Mythical_Lotus

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DareYokel

SNIP

Pam Bondi? The same woman that literally accepted a bribe to stop looking into Trump University? So open corruption is OK now? I can only imagine what four years with this f*ckin' moron will look like.

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Audiophile

Because I totally stated my entire point was based solely on her, right? You want me to list every single dumbass I've seen for the past year? I've seen enough of authentic Trump voters. I've seen enough to know the majority of them were fooled by a conman. That most of them didn't vote based on issues. He is already filling his team with Washington insiders, lobbyists and Wall St. Such change. Such revolution. Peter Thiel donated over a million to Trump's campaign. He is now on his transition team.

 

The hubris and arrogance of the Democratic Party and the Clinton campaign are definitely to blame. They thought they had this in the bag. They neglected important states that would have won them the Presidency. Many factors are to blame.

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sivispacem

Yes, because that one elusive woman is such a representative sample among Trump supporters.

> Complains about an anecdote that doesn't fit his views.

> Suggests anecdotes that do instead.

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Chiarii

you don't seem to be very familiar with how Congress operates.

Trump is a Republican in name only. he doesn't share their values and lied his way through the election cycle saying literally anything he thought would garner support from his base. these people rejected the GOP establishment as much as anything. the Republican party doesn't owe Trump for their Congressional seats. they won't give him "anything" he wants unless it's in line with what the party wants.

 

it won't affect my life much anyhow.

the Court isn't going to turn back the tide of social progress as the states keep updating their own constitutions thanks to the will of the people on ballot initiatives and referendums. a minority of the country elected Trump, just like a minority of the country would've elected Hillary. neither of them represent what most Americans are about. Americans are legalizing pot and accepting their gay friends/family. Americans overwhelmingly support a woman's right to choose and universal access to health care. but I digress.

 

it's not "my party" either. the Democrats are not the Liberals that I want.

Bernie was my candidate, not Hillary. you don't get it. you're so short-sighted. just interested in the horse race and WINNING. like I said, this election won't affect my life too much, but I feel bad for immigrants and Muslims and the working poor.

 

 

I understand that saying all of this makes you feel better but it is completely disconnected from reality. Congress has a very low approval rating. Congress retains their majority. The obvious conclusion from these two facts is that republicans in congress are there because of straight ticket votes for Trump. They do owe him... Paul Ryan explicitly said they owe him.

 

This clearly hasn't sunk in for you yet: One party is now ruling our country. We could be looking at a 7-2 majority in the supreme court... with young far-right justices. We get we want. ACA is dead. Dodd Frank is dead. Immigration, entitlements, sanctuary city funding, foreign aid... these things are on the chopping block now. All you seem to care about is legalized pot and gay marriage; talk about f*cked up priorities. By the time 2020 rolls around even if Trump is voted out the 'damage' will be done. If he's impeached before then that's fine. Pence is even further right.

 

 

The specific lawsuit initiated by ACORN employee Juan Carlos Vera was to do with breach of privacy (recording an individual without consent), but it became abundantly clear during the process that O'Keefe had extensively edited, manipulated and recut footage he'd shot to entirely misrepresent the people being filmed. And a tu quoque fallacy doesn't somehow turn O'Keefe from a deeply unreliable source of information into someone noteworthy or merit-worthy.

 

Notice how you just admitted that the lawsuit against him had nothing to do with editing? The fact that people get fired after his videos are released and his lawsuits are for invasion of privacy rather than slander or defamation lends credibility to his work. But let's say you're right: "He's a liar." Isn't he, at this point, more credible than pretty much any mainstream media outlet? After all, the FEC is investigating Clinton based on his video evidence.

 

Also I noticed how you dropped the Wikileaks bit. I'm guessing you now accept that their thing is "We open governments" and not "We open democrats"?

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Twang.

Because I totally stated my entire point was based solely on her, right? You want me to list every single dumbass I've seen for the past year?

Trumpets don't seem to have a memory span longer than 2-3 days. Some will buy a lie at the end of a sentence he says that contradicts a lie he said at the start of that sentence. Every day they wake up, the dude gets a clean slate. I'm sure every morning they load up Breitbart and have to look up who this orange guy they keep talking about is.

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The Deadite

Wonder what kind of riots Trump supporters would have pulled off if his all-mighty lord would have lost the election.

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