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Merle Travis

RDR2 Possible Leaked Map Discussion

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chris_4130

I reckon the map is fake.

 

I have absolutely no evidence to support that. I just reckon it is.

 

Although, you could isolate an area you didn't want the player accessing early by surrounding it by water, allow the player to swim, but when they reach the half way point they would get swept away by strong currents, which would calm later when the player is allowed to access the area. Explain it as winter water levels or something.

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NumerousMarix

I think there are a lot of points that indicate that the map is fake.

 

first of all, the map leaked like a year ago, i can't really remember but its just way too early I don't think something like that would happen to rockstar.

 

second, the map layout just looks weird to me. Too much water for a western game and the fact that there is new bordeaux from mafia doesn't make sense to me.

 

and finally, I dont think rockstar would use part of the map from RDR for the next game. And if they do, they wouldn't change it like that. (watch the video, I understand its a glitch but the landmass is set and done as well as flat iron lake and it looks nothing like the leaked map)

 

 

Anyway just my thoughts and sorry for my english I'm from switzerland ;) cheers!

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Fuzzknuckles

I still think this map is entirely false. Only time will tell I guess.


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HorTyS

My hope is the leaked map is fake or it's real and the final game includes all of the old RDR1 map. I will be slightly disappointed if there is no Mexico in RDR2.

Mexico and that whole chunk of the story was literally the worst part of RDR....

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Kajjy

I bought this up in the general chat thread a while ago after the trailer dropped. If by some chance that the map is real (which I don't think/hope its not), I'd imagine that the thing keeping you from exploring the rest of the map would be that the bridges are out. That or an invisible wall with "You cannot go that way." But I don't really think it's real.

Edited by Kajjy

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LincolnClay

I hope it's fake. I wanted more than that. Though if it is fake, good work, you managed to convince a lot of people.

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grope_4_that_date

Lis35Wj.png

Edited by grope_4_that_date

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Mac Tonight

Of course it's fake. The ONLY thing preventing you from crossing over into the old game's map was a tiny river. And assuming there will be swimming mechanics in this game (Which is a good assumption, since insta-death water is very archaic and dumb especially in modern gaming) you would easily be able to swim across it and head right into Thieves Landing. And by looking at the trailer footage, I can see there is lots of instances of head-high water.

 

If you look at RDR's map, you can see there is seldom any water in it except for smaller lakes and rivers, the rivers only serving as nonphysical walls keeping you from entering later parts in the game. Without the rivers, the player could freely enter Mexico and West Elizabeth even if the character has no reason to do so, which would screw with the plot.

 

In older GTA games, you had broken bridges and the same water death limit. But in San Andreas, which had a swimming mechanic, you only had road construction signs and invisible walls blocking the bridges. Sure, you could spawn a helicopter and fly over to the other side, but then jets would come over to shoot you down and the police would follow.

 

If this map is legit, which is highly unlikely, then Rockstar either has to put in that dumb, outdated water death feature, which would only be seen as an ancient nuisance, or they have to set up some sort of overwhelming danger such as a horde of deadly animals or a gang of ruthless lawmen to combat the player going out of bounds (Which would also have an effect of ruining immersion)

 

Really, I think it's going to be a completely new map without any elements from the previous game's setting

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saintsrow

I'm hoping for a slightly better balance in the sizes of various regions of the map, and, of course, a larger map area as well.

 

The thing that struck me weird in RDR was that the Great Plains and Tall Trees areas seemed a bit small, kind of like the designers did them last, and ran out of time. I loved the atmosphere of both of those places, and Rockstar tried hard to make them seem bigger by packing a lot of varation into them, but things seemed a bit too close together,

 

Specifically, I thought Great Plains really should be "greater." It felt more like a Great Field, just zip across it to Tall Trees.

 

And then, Tall Trees had a fantastic vibe, a beautiful forest, great topography, but it should have been larger, before an almost instant transition to snow.

 

Finally, I really loved the Cochinay snow covered mountain (singular, only one) which had a beautiful feel also, but it almost felt more like the size of a largish building, rather than a whole mountain. I hope for multiple snow-covered mountains and treacherous mountain trails in RDR2, with a more gradual transition from dense forests into snow country.

 

And as long as I'm complaining, Blackwater seemed pretty small, too. :p

 

TL;DR: All of this observation is in context of the seeming large sprawl of the western part of the RDR map and Mexico. The East of RDR was too compressed.

Edited by saintsrow

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m8son

I remember that river area in Redemption being kinda rapid and fast moving, maybe they will include swimming and canoes but that specific river will be moving too fast to get across with either. I could see them doing what they did in GTA V and just have the river sweep you away and maybe even drown you if you try to cross it.

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GourangaMaster

I'm hoping for a slightly better balance in the sizes of various regions of the map, and, of course, a larger map area as well.

 

The thing that struck me weird in RDR was that the Great Plains and Tall Trees areas seemed a bit small, kind of like the designers did them last, and ran out of time. I loved the atmosphere of both of those places, and Rockstar tried hard to make them seem bigger by packing a lot of varation into them, but things seemed a bit too close together,

 

Specifically, I thought Great Plains really should be "greater." It felt more like a Great Field, just zip across it to Tall Trees.

 

And then, Tall Trees had a fantastic vibe, a beautiful forest, great topography, but it should have been larger, before an almost instant transition to snow.

 

Finally, I really loved the Cochinay snow covered mountain (singular, only one) which had a beautiful feel also, but it almost felt more like the size of a largish building, rather than a whole mountain. I hope for multiple snow-covered mountains and treacherous mountain trails in RDR2, with a more gradual transition from dense forests into snow country.

 

And as long as I'm complaining, Blackwater seemed pretty small, too. :p

 

TL;DR: All of this observation is in context of the seeming large sprawl of the western part of the RDR map and Mexico. The East of RDR was too compressed.

I think the map layout was intentional to serve the narrative. The 2/3 of the plot takes place in mexico during the civil war. Imo having missions span between many vast locales and areas was necessary to convey the weight of the conflict and how it was effecting the entire country. In the last 3rd of the game as the story becomes more focused and personal again, having quick transitions between tall trees blackwater and the great plains helps drive the urgency of johns narrative as it reaches its conclusion. I know there is fast travel but IMO the mapping choice is complimentary if not pivotal to the story progression and pacing.

 

In saying that i would love to see more fleshed out mountain ranges that capture the atmosphere and look of that envirornment as well as RDR did with the desert. If the trailer is anything to go by i have faith in R* achieving this. Watching it gives me the impression there will be more of a focus on a cooler climate and bleaker tone, not so much a Fisftull of dollars but more The dark valley, Hatefull 8 and The Revenant.

 

So less this.

Picture-192.png

vlcsnap-2012-12-30-00h47m10s74.png

 

But more this...

Untitled-1-copy.jpg

Hateful.png

darkvalley.jpg

 

As much as i love the world of RDR i hope R* gives us something new and more of the latter.

Edited by GourangaMaster

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BulletFly

Just because we can't see clearly the old part of the map doesn't mean it won't be accessible in the end...

Could be a focus on the new area, work in progress... or maybe it's fake.

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Fuzzknuckles

Other than nostalgia, what reason do we really have to return to the old part of the map? I think it's highly unlikely we'll be going back to New Austin, and I believe the leaked map to be fake.

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BoulderFaceplant

I'm not sure if I want the old map to be included. Sure it would be cool to visit a thriving Tumbleweed, but that kind of makes it less iconic as a ghost town. Then again, more space is better. I dunno.

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HBKingJosh

I think there are a lot of points that indicate that the map is fake.

 

first of all, the map leaked like a year ago, i can't really remember but its just way too early I don't think something like that would happen to rockstar.

 

second, the map layout just looks weird to me. Too much water for a western game and the fact that there is new bordeaux from mafia doesn't make sense to me.

 

and finally, I dont think rockstar would use part of the map from RDR for the next game. And if they do, they wouldn't change it like that. (watch the video, I understand its a glitch but the landmass is set and done as well as flat iron lake and it looks nothing like the leaked map)

 

 

Anyway just my thoughts and sorry for my english I'm from switzerland ;) cheers!

its not a western game this takes place in the Hartlands. Western as in cowboys movies and history means west of the Mississippi River

Edited by HBKingJosh

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saintsrow

The snow areas are alright, and I did want more snow in RDR2, but not overwhelming. I only want multiple snow-covered mountains and more snowy forest, if we get a whole lot more non-snow map with it.

 

I want the Great Plains to be great, and big forests without snow, as well.

 

I'm hoping the big town/city is bigger, and there are a few more small towns on the map. Also, river-side mills, and farms. Like the beautiful RDR map, but moar. :p

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Chinese Takeout

gRXAcTc.jpg

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TheHumanIsland

Elizabeth could just be the reference point for the map, while the new game contains the entirety of the old and new at once - a feat VERY easy to do compared to a GTA game that is infinitely more complex in terms of environmental asset variety. COULD just be a reference point so people knew where it connected to. Can't be sure until a reveal, of course.

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HBKingJosh

I find it funny and possible because they R* said a story of the american heartlands and the leaked map covers what looks like R* depiction of the Louisiana Purchase area aka the Hartlands

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Napalmbrain

I find it funny and possible because they R* said a story of the american heartlands and the leaked map covers what looks like R* depiction of the Louisiana Purchase area aka the Hartlands

I was thinking the same thing, this could be the area the map is based on if it is not fake. If it is fake, the maker did a good job of incorporating a lot of the major traits of this area.

 

Even if it's is fake, Rockstar said the heartland of America so this is area that will be in the game almost certainly.

IE5GQ3s.jpg

Edited by Napalmbrain

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BretMaverick777

The Great Plains, Midwest and Rockies are just as much a part of the West in fiction and in history. Jesse James' outlaw gang operated out of Missouri and got shot up by Swedish settlers in Minnesota; Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson and many more called Dodge City home long before they moved to Tombstone, and Dodge City is right smack in the middle of the Great Plains in Kansas; Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid started their careers in Rocky Mountain mining camps like Telluride, CO, before basing themselves on the high plains of infamous Johnson County, WY; Deadwood is in South Dakota in the very heart of the country. I love the deserts of the southwest and Mexico, too, and realize how iconic they are to the backdrop of a lot of Westerns; but again, the heartland Plains and the Rockies were a huge part of the West we all know and love as well.

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HBKingJosh

The Great Plains, Midwest and Rockies are just as much a part of the West in fiction and in history. Jesse James' outlaw gang operated out of Missouri and got shot up by Swedish settlers in Minnesota; Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson and many more called Dodge City home long before they moved to Tombstone, and Dodge City is right smack in the middle of the Great Plains in Kansas; Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid started their careers in Rocky Mountain mining camps like Telluride, CO, before basing themselves on the high plains of infamous Johnson County, WY; Deadwood is in South Dakota in the very heart of the country. I love the deserts of the southwest and Mexico, too, and realize how iconic they are to the backdrop of a lot of Westerns; but again, the heartland Plains and the Rockies were a huge part of the West we all know and love as well.

Agree a lot of people don't understand that western means west of the Mississippi River

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Chinese Takeout

 

The Great Plains, Midwest and Rockies are just as much a part of the West in fiction and in history. Jesse James' outlaw gang operated out of Missouri and got shot up by Swedish settlers in Minnesota; Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson and many more called Dodge City home long before they moved to Tombstone, and Dodge City is right smack in the middle of the Great Plains in Kansas; Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid started their careers in Rocky Mountain mining camps like Telluride, CO, before basing themselves on the high plains of infamous Johnson County, WY; Deadwood is in South Dakota in the very heart of the country. I love the deserts of the southwest and Mexico, too, and realize how iconic they are to the backdrop of a lot of Westerns; but again, the heartland Plains and the Rockies were a huge part of the West we all know and love as well.

Agree a lot of people don't understand that western means west of the Mississippi River

You know what else isn't a part of "Westerns"? New Orleans, LA. I've gone over this in other posts, so I won't rehash it again, but name me one EPIC, well-loved "Western" (movie, TV show or best-selling book) where NOLA is the main setting. How about where it's just mentioned casually? You might get one or two. Funny that the Red Dead Series (a love letter to the great westerns of pop culture) would feature so heavily a setting that is barely mentioned in passing within the genre.

 

(this reply isn't aimed at you, but rather as support for the OP).

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BretMaverick777

Westerns set in New Orleans...?

How about my avatar? Maverick (the TV series and the Mel Gibson movie) was about a traveling gambler and card shark who spent most of his episodes on steamboats in the Old South, particularly around New Orleans. Cowboys in the Old West, fictional or historical, always talked about shacking up with beautiful hookers in San Francisco and/or New Orleans....these were *the* sin cities of the time. The first half of Wild Wild West takes place on a New Orleans plantation. Django Unchained was set in Mississippi, but the same general idea. Cold Mountain was definitely a Western, but it was set in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina during the Civil War. Recent antebellum South movies like the Free State of Jones, Birth of a Nation, Twelve Years A Slave, Roots and the like aren't traditional Westerns per se, but they pay homage to the genre.

 

New Orleans -- excuse me, New Bordeaux -- has a lot of potential for a fun escape from the wilderness, if just for a little while. And it's likely to be a pretty rough city as cities go. Not quite the lawless frontier, but far from civilized. If you've ever played Assassin's Creed Liberation, you saw New Orleans in the late 18th century, about 100 years before RDR2; but it accurately portrayed the city as a dusty, raucous river port, and that's exactly what you'd see in the 1800s as well.

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HBKingJosh

 

 

The Great Plains, Midwest and Rockies are just as much a part of the West in fiction and in history. Jesse James' outlaw gang operated out of Missouri and got shot up by Swedish settlers in Minnesota; Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson and many more called Dodge City home long before they moved to Tombstone, and Dodge City is right smack in the middle of the Great Plains in Kansas; Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid started their careers in Rocky Mountain mining camps like Telluride, CO, before basing themselves on the high plains of infamous Johnson County, WY; Deadwood is in South Dakota in the very heart of the country. I love the deserts of the southwest and Mexico, too, and realize how iconic they are to the backdrop of a lot of Westerns; but again, the heartland Plains and the Rockies were a huge part of the West we all know and love as well.

Agree a lot of people don't understand that western means west of the Mississippi River

You know what else isn't a part of "Westerns"? New Orleans, LA. I've gone over this in other posts, so I won't rehash it again, but name me one EPIC, well-loved "Western" (movie, TV show or best-selling book) where NOLA is the main setting. How about where it's just mentioned casually? You might get one or two. Funny that the Red Dead Series (a love letter to the great westerns of pop culture) would feature so heavily a setting that is barely mentioned in passing within the genre.

 

(this reply isn't aimed at you, but rather as support for the OP).

 

Im From Baton Rouge LA and know very well New Orleans is the south.

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darkdayz

The geography in the trailer looks to be in a completely different area of America.

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HBKingJosh

The geography in the trailer looks to be in a completely different area of America.

the trailer pics actually match the geography well

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UAL

Trees confirmed.

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UshaB

Trees confirmed.

 

Don't believe anything yet, you could be wrong.

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ClaudeSpeed1911

For the swiming argument, they can make it like Vice City Stories where the waves push you back when you go a certain distance.

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