Mapping Red Dead Redemption 2! Landmark Analysis Thread

[INFERNO E100]

Also state names

 

New Hannover - the central region

 

? Elizabeth?? - West/North West (grizzlies area)

 

West Elizabeth - in the south west

 

Now Bayou NWA is listed on the map so I'm thinking it's the initials of the state in the east ... Now what does NWA stand for new west Amsterdam?

Edited May 7, 2018 by INFERNO E100

[Gtaman_92]

I highly doubt we will be able to explore Theives Landing. West Elizabeth is the only returning location that we will visit.

[INFERNO E100]

 

Thieves landing is on the leaked map because it is viewable from the playable area and needs updating

The leaked map is an art direction map so the artists can achieve a coherent aesthetic for each area...which is why it's block coloured and boardered.

Also while we're talking map. New Hannover is the state and Cumberland Forrest is a county within it. Much like tall trees within west Austin

To add to that, I think "The Heartlands" is the other county, as the Valentine Robbery was a part of the demo.Yeah Cumberland forrest, roanoke ridge and heartlands is new Hannover

 

Big valley and the grizzlies is Elizabeth?

 

Tall trees and great plains is west Elizabeth

 

Scarlett meadows, bluegill marsh and bayou NWA is new west Amsterdam? Amsterdam isn't very french so maybe Avignon

I highly doubt we will be able to explore Theives Landing. West Elizabeth is the only returning location that we will visit.

This guy's got it. It's outside the world boundary, and when I say viewable from the playable area. Read that as you can see it from the area you play in. Not play in it Edited May 7, 2018 by INFERNO E100

[DirtCheap]

Does anyone have an idea during what part in the game will the Blackwater Massacre take place? At the start? The middle? Towards the end?

[INFERNO E100]

After, also this is the mapping thread

Edited May 7, 2018 by INFERNO E100

[43herm]

RDR said Dutch never went to New Austin, so maybe possibly he and the gang won't have any missions there, but the area is there and full of side missions. If it's not, then I can't see how the map can be that diverse.

[Red Dead Rebel]

RDR said Dutch never went to New Austin, so maybe possibly he and the gang won't have any missions there, but the area is there and full of side missions. If it's not, then I can't see how the map can be that diverse.

 

You think the map can't be diverse without New Austin?

[43herm]

 

RDR said Dutch never went to New Austin, so maybe possibly he and the gang won't have any missions there, but the area is there and full of side missions. If it's not, then I can't see how the map can be that diverse.

You think the map can't be diverse without New Austin?

Just think the desert part should be as far south as possible, that's all.

[Cutter De Blanc]

Thieves landing is on the leaked map because it is viewable from the playable area and needs updating

 

The leaked map is an art direction map so the artists can achieve a coherent aesthetic for each area...which is why it's block coloured and bordered.

 

Also while we're talking map. New Hannover is the state and Cumberland Forrest is a county within it. Much like tall trees within west Austin

Glitching over to Thieves Landing will be a thing

[The Nefarious]

Also state names

 

New Hannover - the central region

 

? Elizabeth?? - West/North West (grizzlies area)

 

West Elizabeth - in the south west

 

Now Bayou NWA is listed on the map so I'm thinking it's the initials of the state in the east ... Now what does NWA stand for new west Amsterdam?

National Wildlife Area.

[Svip]

I think NWA is a reference to NSW (New South Wales), in that you have 'new' and a geographical direction ('west' or 'south') in front of an Old World name. 'National Wildlife Area' sounds too modern for 1899.

 

What A stands for, I don't know. But probably some Francophone European city to go with the French theme. Avignon is probably the most likely candidate, since that's the most commonly known French location with A, but the developers could have been more clever (more clever than New Bordeaux) and named it after a more obscure French location. Or, you know, like NSW, name it after a region, like Auvergne. NWA could stand for New West Auvergne. But, honestly, it's anybody's guess.

 

We need more detail from previews and whatnot to know in which direction they are going (or what it actually is). I believe so far, we've not seen pictures of a swampy area. And it seems to me that Rockstar Games is specifically keeping previewers out of Bayou NWA and Bluegill March, as these may be end-game locations. And given the swampy nature of their locations, 'cutting bridges' is going to be an easy task for the developers to keep players out.

 

I wonder whether West Elizabeth is expanded upon to include Big Valley, or that West Elizabeth is just Tall Trees and Great Plains, with Big Valley + (maybe) one or both of the Grizzlies areas being an Elizabeth state (sort of like Virginia and West Virginia).

 

Indeed, Montana river separating these states would make sense, at least from a geographical standpoint. Although, that's not really how US states work. And I've noticed that Rockstar Games doesn't really care about how US state lines work in reality.

 

Perhaps New Hanover - while including The Heartlands and Cumberland Forest - also includes Noanoke Ridge, with NWA being a 'tiny' state being mostly swampy with Scarlett Meadows being its only 'solid' area. But the game is definitely going to be separated in 4-5 'states'.

 

Indeed, West Elizabeth and Elizabeth being separate states may be a plot point in the story, as the gang escape across state lines after their failed robbery in Blackwater.

[Alexlecj]

I think NWA is a reference to NSW (New South Wales), in that you have 'new' and a geographical direction ('west' or 'south') in front of an Old World name. 'National Wildlife Area' sounds too modern for 1899.

 

What A stands for, I don't know. But probably some Francophone European city to go with the French theme. Avignon is probably the most likely candidate, since that's the most commonly known French location with A, but the developers could have been more clever (more clever than New Bordeaux) and named it after a more obscure French location. Or, you know, like NSW, name it after a region, like Auvergne. NWA could stand for New West Auvergne. But, honestly, it's anybody's guess.

 

We need more detail from previews and whatnot to know in which direction they are going (or what it actually is). I believe so far, we've not seen pictures of a swampy area. And it seems to me that Rockstar Games is specifically keeping previewers out of Bayou NWA and Bluegill March, as these may be end-game locations. And given the swampy nature of their locations, 'cutting bridges' is going to be an easy task for the developers to keep players out.

 

I wonder whether West Elizabeth is expanded upon to include Big Valley, or that West Elizabeth is just Tall Trees and Great Plains, with Big Valley + (maybe) one or both of the Grizzlies areas being an Elizabeth state (sort of like Virginia and West Virginia).

 

Indeed, Montana river separating these states would make sense, at least from a geographical standpoint. Although, that's not really how US states work. And I've noticed that Rockstar Games doesn't really care about how US state lines work in reality.

 

Perhaps New Hanover - while including The Heartlands and Cumberland Forest - also includes Noanoke Ridge, with NWA being a 'tiny' state being mostly swampy with Scarlett Meadows being its only 'solid' area. But the game is definitely going to be separated in 4-5 'states'.

 

Indeed, West Elizabeth and Elizabeth being separate states may be a plot point in the story, as the gang escape across state lines after their failed robbery in Blackwater.

Aquitaine (which main city is Bordeaux) seems more plausible.

[The Nefarious]

I think NWA is a reference to NSW (New South Wales), in that you have 'new' and a geographical direction ('west' or 'south') in front of an Old World name. 'National Wildlife Area' sounds too modern for 1899.

 

What A stands for, I don't know. But probably some Francophone European city to go with the French theme. Avignon is probably the most likely candidate, since that's the most commonly known French location with A, but the developers could have been more clever (more clever than New Bordeaux) and named it after a more obscure French location. Or, you know, like NSW, name it after a region, like Auvergne. NWA could stand for New West Auvergne. But, honestly, it's anybody's guess.

 

We need more detail from previews and whatnot to know in which direction they are going (or what it actually is). I believe so far, we've not seen pictures of a swampy area. And it seems to me that Rockstar Games is specifically keeping previewers out of Bayou NWA and Bluegill March, as these may be end-game locations. And given the swampy nature of their locations, 'cutting bridges' is going to be an easy task for the developers to keep players out.

 

I wonder whether West Elizabeth is expanded upon to include Big Valley, or that West Elizabeth is just Tall Trees and Great Plains, with Big Valley + (maybe) one or both of the Grizzlies areas being an Elizabeth state (sort of like Virginia and West Virginia).

 

Indeed, Montana river separating these states would make sense, at least from a geographical standpoint. Although, that's not really how US states work. And I've noticed that Rockstar Games doesn't really care about how US state lines work in reality.

 

Perhaps New Hanover - while including The Heartlands and Cumberland Forest - also includes Noanoke Ridge, with NWA being a 'tiny' state being mostly swampy with Scarlett Meadows being its only 'solid' area. But the game is definitely going to be separated in 4-5 'states'.

 

Indeed, West Elizabeth and Elizabeth being separate states may be a plot point in the story, as the gang escape across state lines after their failed robbery in Blackwater.

Not gonna say I'm 100% certain but I'm pretty sure. Also pretty sure the Bayou area has been seen several times in both screenshots and trailers. I'd find it hard to believe that the scene of them wading through the swamp is anywhere else. You are right though Rockstar don't really give a sh*t about geography.. especially considering that the snowy area that we assume to be The Grizzlies and based on the Rockies is located right next to several southern states. I think their main focus was probably just blending an array of different environments so the various areas will likely take inspiration from various states and some will be deleted almost entirely in the process. The map in Redemption wasn't a straight copy of any one area in real life so I'd expect this one to be the same. Right off the bat the only one we can identify with certainty is Louisiana and even then we only see a very small portion of the overall state.

[Cutter De Blanc]

Did a google search on NWA (gangsta, i know)

 

found a list of weird ass abbreviations

 

However the Nanticoke Watershed Alliance gave me pause

 

https://nanticokeriver.org/

 

Also the Naval Weapons Annex

 

But I really dunno!

[Little Big Man]

NPCs With Attitudes?

[Svip]

Aquitaine (which main city is Bordeaux) seems more plausible.

New West Aquitaine sounds exactly like a Rockstar location!

 

 

Not gonna say I'm 100% certain but I'm pretty sure. Also pretty sure the Bayou area has been seen several times in both screenshots and trailers. I'd find it hard to believe that the scene of them wading through the swamp is anywhere else.

Ah, I hadn't noticed any swampy areas in the screenshots, so it's just my mistake. Then it's definitely Bayou. But we haven't seen screenshots of New Bordeaux yet.

 

 

You are right though Rockstar don't really give a sh*t about geography.. especially considering that the snowy area that we assume to be The Grizzlies and based on the Rockies is located right next to several southern states. I think their main focus was probably just blending an array of different environments so the various areas will likely take inspiration from various states and some will be deleted almost entirely in the process. The map in Redemption wasn't a straight copy of any one area in real life so I'd expect this one to be the same.

Of course, that's how Rockstar has always done maps. It's comparable to Euro Truck Simulator 2, where the map of Europe is condensed to give it more variety without being too boring. Well, I guess it depends on taste.

 

But if Rockstar Games built their maps to scale they would A) be too big to explore appropriately, and B) hardly designed in the detail we've come to expect from their games, since they'd likely just procedurally generate it, and we all know how that ends up!

 

 

Right off the bat the only one we can identify with certainty is Louisiana and even then we only see a very small portion of the overall state.

Definitely. 'Bayou' is a French word meaning 'a stagnant body of water left behind by the meandering of the Mississippi River in Louisiana', which comes from the Choctaw 'bayuk'. They are not even being subtle about that area being basically Louisiana.

[The Nefarious]

If I had to guess I'd say West Elizabeth is (part of) one state, Big Valley and The Grizzlies is another and the big landmass to the east is another. Hard to know if the different states will actually be identified or whether the names on the map are region or state names. It's unlikely that states would be called things like Cumberland Forest or The Grizzlies though so it's probably safe to assume that the state names would be something similar to New Austin and West Elizabeth.

[Mirokunite]

Bayou NWA might be a placeholder name. The map is several years old and names/camp locations could've changed. For all we know nwa might mean 'name without agreement'.

[Svip]

Basic map layout and map names get settle pretty quickly. Textures and recordings hinges on these matters being decided. While you can start building the game, the map and write the story without all or any of the map names being settled, you can't start the voice actor recording and textures and some UI stuff. You can do a lot of placeholding, but it's generally considered quite a bit of work to go back and fix stuff like that, so developers tend to avoid that.

 

Plus, I know that Rockstar Games develop their games in a certain rhythm. First they write their game's story. This is also the phase where the world and the place names are decided. Then the actual development of the game starts.

 

The leaked map may be years old, but it's still like 5-6 years into development, and I am confident that the map names was fully settled at that point. This is why we see the names from map appear in the screenshots. Valentine and Annesburg has been confirmed.

 

And we haven't heard a lot of place names that doesn't appear on the map.

 

That being said, if any place names are likely to change, it's going to be the area names. Those are the easiest ones to change at later stages, since they don't make many appearances in the game itself.

 

But it seems a bit weird to me that they should have that note in the placeholder name. Could just use any old name. If there is a dispute regarding the name, they know that. Why write it on the map?

 

Also, we are just assuming it's NWA, what if it is 'Nwa', as in a word and not abbreviation? 'Nwa' means black in Haitian Creole from the French « noir ». But honestly, I have no idea. It's all guesswork, and it's weird that if NWA is an abbreviation, that it only appears on that area and not other areas in that 'state'.

[TheWhiteHat]

i believe this is the same house , taken from a different angle , identical porch , window panes

http://imgur.com/waUUDde

http://imgur.com/Uqb8IXE

[Svip]

I don't feel the porches are identical, considering only one of them has railing.

[Mach1bud]

Plus one house is white and one is green.

[Little Big Man]

"Bayou Noir" is an interesting idea. Good job, that person.

 

May be they had to spell it phonetically to stop retards saying it wrong.

 

 

 

West Elizabeth is definately named after Elizabeth Two-Door, right?

Edited May 8, 2018 by Little Big Man

[Mr. Scratch]

The map in Redemption wasn't a straight copy of any one area in real life so I'd expect this one to be the same.

Actually, you'd be surprised, Blackwater at least looks almost exactly like the real-life Blackwater, Missouri. Satellite imagery shows that the town layout is the same, even the cobblestone streets, railroad, and telegraph station are replicated correctly. Also, Ojo del Diablo is an exact copy of the Rainbow Bridge in Utah, and most of Perdido is based on Arches National Park, which also appears in Horizon Zero Dawn and they both share a lot of similar landmarks.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Mr. Scratch

[The Nefarious]

 

The map in Redemption wasn't a straight copy of any one area in real life so I'd expect this one to be the same.

 

Actually, you'd be surprised, Blackwater at least looks almost exactly like the real-life Blackwater, Missouri. Satellite imagery shows that the town layout is the same, even the cobblestone streets, railroad, and telegraph station are replicated correctly.

Well I'll be damned.

[Cutter De Blanc]

Bayou Noir makes a lot of sense.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Bayou

[Little Big Man]

Black Bayou! Great find!

 

Also, Ojo del Diablo is an exact copy of the Rainbow Bridge in Utah, and most of Perdido is based on Arches National Park...

The opening of Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade is also in the same place (and time!).

 

Why did Rock Star mix up Mexico and the USA so casually? RDR1 was like the South West turned upside down, with Monument Valley and Utah in Mexico.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Little Big Man

[Mr. Scratch]

Probably because those locations looked really f*cking cool.

[The Nefarious]

 

The map in Redemption wasn't a straight copy of any one area in real life so I'd expect this one to be the same.

Also, Ojo del Diablo is an exact copy of the Rainbow Bridge in Utah, and most of Perdido is based on Arches National Park, which also appears in Horizon Zero Dawn and they both share a lot of similar landmarks.Again very interesting but actually what I meant was that no area can be tied exclusively to any one state as each of them take inspiration from various real life states such as Texas and New Mexico and even Utah and Missouri as you've pointed out there.

[Mr. Scratch]

True, that's one of the things I like about RDR over GTA.