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RedDagger

Mapping Red Dead Redemption 2! Landmark Analysis Thread

Recommended Posts

Spider-Vice
3 hours ago, koeklin said:

 

Spoiler

 

Bonjour

 

New Canal Lighthouse (North of New Orleans) around 1900

Wikipedia

 

xd8AeBm.jpg`

 

Gazebo in Mill Creek Park (Youngstown, Ohio):

 

F0c7LyQ.jpg

 

One of the Stone bridges of City Park (Nola):

Wikipedia

 

jaXt30D.jpg

 

624 Bourbon Street, Nola;
 

KNzucaO.jpg

 

A house on Espanade Avenue, Nola:

 

vasaJdx.jpg

 

it is not a building in the map, just an image in the Wheeler, Rawson and Co Catalog: The Sears Headquarter in Chicago

 

cASTT4V.jpg

 

This building still exists:

 

 

 

Awesome work! We've featured your stuff in GTANet.com btw ;)

 

https://gtanet.com/community-highlight-rdr2-location-matching-still-after-release/ 

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koeklin

Oh! Thank you very much, Spider-Vice!

¬†ūüĎć

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kwul
Posted (edited)

5enym943lzy41.jpg

Saint Denis bar, New Orleans

Edited by kwul
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Taterman
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, kwul said:

Saint Denis bar, New Orleans

Very cool!

I'd love to see what it looks like inside now. Spent a good bit of in-game time in there.

 

Edited by Taterman
Addition

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SneakyDeaky
On 5/15/2020 at 3:24 PM, DuPz0r said:

That's Guarma's Northwest sister Island as seen in the distance out to sea. It sits directly over New Austin. I'm guessing Version 1.00 had LOD issues which they later patched.

Yep that Island will flash and pop in and out of view behind New Austin in 1.00.

 

I've never seen it look like a gigantic mountain right next to Tumbleweed though. I'd love to take a picture of that lol.

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koeklin
Posted (edited)
On 5/15/2020 at 11:25 PM, kwul said:

Saint Denis bar, New Orleans

Bonjour

 

I've never seen the building of your post in the game: Bastille Saloon and Doyle's Tavern are based respectively on notorious Lalaurie Mansion (1140 Royal Street) and 700 Bourbon Street. But on the same intersection (Royal and Ursulines Streets), at the opposite side, the building below is in Saint Denis.

 

b0KW0tj.jpg

 

Some other buildings:

 

841 Bourbon Street:

 

kOnpwXR.jpg

 

Madame John's Legacy, 632 Dumaine Street: 
Wikipedia

 

osRRdkp.jpg

 

Hotel Chevalier in Sanit Denis : 1101 Decatur street (at the corner) & 515 Ursulines Street:

 

O3CtC6E.jpg

 

Café Marchand: 619 Bourbon Street:

 

WufxuI4.jpg

 

 

Edited by koeklin
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zachsterosu
Posted (edited)

I was playing Mafia 3 and noticed they have the Louisville & Nashville Station in New Bordeaux as well:

GlERs6s.png

 

St. Denis rendition for reference:

vuduDzq.jpg

(Credit to@koeklin)

 

What's interesting is that the building was demolished in 1954, but the game takes place in 1968. Also, it's used as a station for the streetcar route, which doesn't connect to any railroad mainline. They also have the newer Union Station in a differnt section of the city.

Edited by zachsterosu
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Kirk Lazarus

There's a lot of crossover buildings in both games.  Here's two in Mafia that also appear in Red Dead

 

Postcard_03_A.jpg

 

Anderson_Bay_Lighthouse_2.jpg

 

If you have Mafia, you can find a lot of them visiting locations listed on the Points of Interest box in the top left of their map.  

 

Spoiler

Mafia_III_Map_Road_Atlas.jpg

 

 

It'd be fun to see someone do a comparison of New Orleans buildings and screenshots from both games.

 

 

 

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Dark Rosewood Varnish
Posted (edited)

Not sure if posted but Cumberland Falls is actually named after and based on the REAL LIFE Cumberland Falls in Kentucky:

 

Xy6bQD7.jpg

 

zb1fVdi.jpg

 

FkAzEmW.jpg

 

It's funny I only found this out from watching the Kentucky episode of Aerial America. A shot of the waterfall came on screen and I immediately thought it looked like Cumberland Falls from RDR2....then the narrator said it was actually called Cumberland Falls, nearly spat my drank out lol. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumberland_Falls

Edited by Dark Rosewood Varnish
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Lemoyne outlaw

wow thats very cool. i have been there before. but it never dawned on me that the waterfall was based on the real one.

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LeakyLine

Still hoping for a mod out there that removes the boundaries and makes these expansive detailed areas out of bounds normally accessible.

 

One day.

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TheEMP1978
On 5/27/2020 at 11:49 PM, LeakyLine said:

Still hoping for a mod out there that removes the boundaries and makes these expansive detailed areas out of bounds normally accessible.

 

One day.

And by mod you mean rockstar officially remove the borders function but add legendary deadly supernatural creatures if you go far out which then act as an border to slow you down by making it more dangerous. The borders stay on the map but you can pass beyond them & those who choose to go deep beyond them encountered dangerous creatures. Also when you die you get spawned back to the regular map making your life more valuable/increasing the difficulty same with the cold & over heating can kill you out there.

 

This may honestly just seem crazy but personally I would love the out of bounds to be made a dangerous world, everything in the border is child friendly compared to what’s out there beyond the designated zone. It would also be a slight nod to creatures from RDR1 but of course the creatures cannot cross over from the unrealistic unnatural hell where are the world begins to fall apart that way they never intrude on the immersion of the regular map only being found at the edge of the world.

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DuPz0r
Posted (edited)

I know it's not technically part of the map, but it is something in the original game so... I decided to add an early construction of Butter Bridge in before the railroad was extended, using mods

 

Edited by DuPz0r
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Surebrec
Posted (edited)

Does anyone know what these two lights are way off in the distance?

2ggekQj.png

If you position yourself high enough just south of the "V" in New Hanhover and look south towards St Denis at night, they are visible.

They are also visible from the top of Mt Shann, and by the process of triangulation from those two points, it puts them well south of St Denis and off the phsyical map.

Strangely, between the two locations, the gaps between the lights doesn't seem to change. Is there anything in that area, or is it just a graphical bug?

Edited by Surebrec

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Taterman
Posted (edited)

Could it be a large ship out there?

Edited by Taterman

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Surebrec
7 minutes ago, Taterman said:

Could it be a large ship out there?


I doubt it, it doesn't move, and it's too high up.

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Cutter De Blanc
7 hours ago, Surebrec said:


I doubt it, it doesn't move, and it's too high up.

Was checking it out today, I'm about 90% sure its one of those really large ships out there that doesn't move

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Surebrec

I can'tr

8 hours ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

Was checking it out today, I'm about 90% sure its one of those really large ships out there that doesn't move


I can't see how it would be. It's too far away, it's outside the physical map. To the south of St. Denis, there is only the Lannahechee River that isn't wide enough.

I triangulated the location and it puts it roughly here:
Wcm2l20.png

I also went to a higher point, roughly at the "R" in Grizzlies East on the map, and this was the view:

wnriwGX.png

And roughly the same view during the day:

eYRG3Gi.png

This is looking down at St. Denis at a greater height, and the two lights would be roughly in the middle of the view. There's no ship in the game that have lights that high.

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Cutter De Blanc
Posted (edited)

What I did was wait at the Fire Lookout Tower until nightfall, then used those lights as a point of reference while riding to Saint Denis. I will attempt to get across the river again later to check it out more thoroughly though

 

Seems like determining its exact distance is difficult due to the DOF tricks the camera uses at a distance to make the world look bigger

Edited by Cutter De Blanc

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pariah87
11 hours ago, Surebrec said:

I can'tr


I can't see how it would be. It's too far away, it's outside the physical map. To the south of St. Denis, there is only the Lannahechee River that isn't wide enough.

I triangulated the location and it puts it roughly here:
Wcm2l20.png

I also went to a higher point, roughly at the "R" in Grizzlies East on the map, and this was the view:

wnriwGX.png

And roughly the same view during the day:

eYRG3Gi.png

This is looking down at St. Denis at a greater height, and the two lights would be roughly in the middle of the view. There's no ship in the game that have lights that high.

 

 

unknown.png

 

in the area you thought they were, theres 3 on them, one under the map plus one of those weird black cubes, im guessing it used to mark off something, or possibly the beta Guarma location

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Surebrec
40 minutes ago, pariah87 said:

 

 

unknown.png

 

in the area you thought they were, theres 3 on them, one under the map plus one of those weird black cubes, im guessing it used to mark off something, or possibly the beta Guarma location



Well there it is... mystery seemingly solved.

Thanks for checking it out.

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pariah87
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Surebrec said:



Well there it is... mystery seemingly solved.

Thanks for checking it out.

I found a lights like this underneath the oil fields too, I posted it way back in the beta thread I think.

 

There could've been a boat out here in the beta when there was water instead of land.

Edited by pariah87

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pariah87
Posted (edited)

Stumbled across what I believe is El Hueco. Guarma in the beginning IMO was MUCH smaller than the final product. I don't think the huge island of Guarma was ever meant to be fully fleshed out. Technology during the devlopment probably evolved and they were able to add it crazy amounts of large land masses as LODs without much performance hit.

Anyways here are my theories on the original size of Guarma and the cut cave area from Dupzor's videos is actually El Hueco.

 

elhuecoguarma.gif

unknown.png

 

We always thought that the little square picture of Guama on the leaked and beta map was reduced in size.. but I believe the scaling of the island in both the leaked and beta train map is to scale with the main map. The large island of Guarma we have today being added much later in developement. After the leaked and beta map were both made. I will also mention there is a file game called elh_01 which is near the guarma areas, that only has lightboxes in it now, those lightboxes are found behind the wall in the suspected cut cave area. I believe elh stood for el hueco. There is also a file in the game called lev_01 in the guarma area files that only has a dummy file and lightbox in it as well. It is cut. I have wondered what this was for a awhile and now believe it is the cut file for the beta/leaked area of "Le Vilaj".

 

I was also messing around with the Guarma Water option with Rampage and when using Guarma water on the main map, a lot of those unfinished out of bounds beach/water areas actually start to look a lot more complete. Also Lemoyne with Guarma water enabled looks a lot more like the water of the leaked map. I believe when they added the oldmap NA/NP to the map they had to use a different water system. Here are some photos of why I think that.

unknown.pngunknown.png
 This is the out of bounds area at the Northwest of the map 

unknown.pngunknown.png

Red-Dead-Redemption-2-map-leak-hi-res.jp

 

 

 

Edited by pariah87
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DuPz0r
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, pariah87 said:

Stumbled across what I believe is El Hueco. Guarma in the beginning IMO was MUCH smaller than the final product. I don't think the huge island of Guarma was ever meant to be fully fleshed out. Technology during the devlopment probably evolved and they were able to add it crazy amounts of large land masses as LODs without much performance hit.

Anyways here are my theories on the original size of Guarma and the cut cave area from Dupzor's videos is actually El Hueco.

 

elhuecoguarma.gif

unknown.png

 

We always thought that the little square picture of Guama on the leaked and beta map was reduced in size.. but I believe the scaling of the island in both the leaked and beta train map is to scale with the main map. The large island of Guarma we have today being added much later in developement. After the leaked and beta map were both made. I will also mention there is a file game called elh_01 which is near the guarma areas, that only has lightboxes in it now, those lightboxes are found behind the wall in the suspected cut cave area. I believe elh stood for el hueco. There is also a file in the game called lev_01 in the guarma area files that only has a dummy file and lightbox in it as well. It is cut. I have wondered what this was for a awhile and now believe it is the cut file for the beta/leaked area of "Le Vilaj".

 

I was also messing around with the Guarma Water option with Rampage and when using Guarma water on the main map, a lot of those unfinished out of bounds beach/water areas actually start to look a lot more complete. Also Lemoyne with Guarma water enabled looks a lot more like the water of the leaked map. I believe when they added the oldmap NA/NP to the map they had to use a different water system. Here are some photos of why I think that.

 

This looks very accurate imo. Good job Pariah! You've now given me ideas & theories as I mentioned on Discord, I now believe that El Hueco may have been where I named the "Bahia Del Cangejo" or "Crab Bay" And a few other locations which are in the final map that look present in the beta map still. I'll go into more details later once I've gathed all info & research.

 

I think I've made a new discovery too.

unknown.png


unknown.png

unknown.png

unknown.png

Edited by DuPz0r
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DuPz0r
Posted (edited)

After a bit of conversation with Pariah we think we may have figured it all out. Guama that is.

So the beta map contains elements of the final map but they've been re-organised and spread out around the "new" Island, We're able to put together the beta map using existing elements from the final map.

This is the outcome

unknown.png

Let me break that down a bit
unknown.png

unknown.png

 

So it turns out Cinco Torres was always in the exact same place in relation to El Hueco & the Village, but just rotated to fit in the new Island map.

 

El Hueco being that cut cave above the Rock with the Hole through it at the end of that path to nowhere of the smaller bay south of Bahia de la Paz.
20200613_083943.jpg

Edited by DuPz0r
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pariah87
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Surebrec said:



Well there it is... mystery seemingly solved.

Thanks for checking it out.

Actually did a bit more investigating on it. I believe those three lights are actually beta leftovers from when Guama was still part of the main map. The area files have placement RPFs in them to let the game know where to place certain meshs and textures etc. Anyways I found in the t_17 files there was leftovers of

 

t_17p_fussar_tun_shell_lod.ydr

t_17p_roots_thin_b.ydr     a b and c 

 

But all the Guarma files are in the areas ABCD. I also found the exact same file in the C area files here... 

 

c_12p_fussar_tun_shell_lod.ydr

 

red-dead-redemption-2-map.jpg

See in this photo how each square has a letter and number r03 r04 r16 r17

Well Guarma is all in ABCD with numbers but in the beta they were in RSTU 15-18. The only file that remains in the area files for RSTU_15_18 is the cut folder elh_01 which we now believe is El Hueco. However in the terrain files is in the areas of RSTU 15-18 there are a lot of conflicting files in the placement RPFs. Each one has usually two metadata files where most placement RPFs have one. In one of them if shows a dev signing off that he has exported the files and all of these are dated between July - September of 2017.  

This is further proof of Guama originally being a part of the main map. Probably why the water looks different in the main map because it used the same level as Guarma. Once the oldmap came into play they had to change it up. Plus technology and advances probably allowed them to do so.

 

 

t_17_slod.jpg
unknown.png?width=777&height=487

unknown.png

In these pictures here, you will see the terrain files for rstu_15_18. Notice that r16-18 s15-18 and t 15-16 placement RPFs are completely missing. 

This RPF is the only placement of visual effects in the area and it lines up perfect with those three lights. You can see there are 3 drawable objects too. I honestly believe that this is Guama Beta leftovers.


 

 

Edited by pariah87
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pariah87

unknown.png?width=444&height=487

 

Probably camp or boat leftovers.

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AnthMUFC-Champs
2 hours ago, pariah87 said:

unknown.png?width=444&height=487

 

Probably camp or boat leftovers.

Awesome work @pariah87, this really does clear a lot up regarding the map size. Quick question, I haven't been on here in a while but with Guama being part of the map from early in development do you believe New Austin was also initially intended to be included too?

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mads1153
Posted (edited)

Or it could be old harbor area or near this that has these lights because last mission before entering Saint Denis back again?

You know some docks has the lights beside that looks similar like this.

Edited by mads1153

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pariah87
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, mads1153 said:

Or it could be old harbor area or near this that has these lights because last mission before entering Saint Denis back again?

You know some docks has the lights beside that looks similar like this.

The lights are like a triangle, two at the top and one at the bottom like this

 

O                         O

             

 

              O

 

I think due to the area these lights are in that they are beta Guama leftovers.

Edited by pariah87

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