Mapping Red Dead Redemption 2! Landmark Analysis Thread

[Jabalous]

1 minute ago, bakerach said:

There's no good evidence of Mexico, except of course the Mexican gang, references to "south of the border," multiple credible sources stating that Mexico is in the game, and of course the actual promotional photos and videos released by R* clearly showing Mexican landscapes.

 

But yeah, besides that there's no good evidence.

Rockstar wouldn't be the type to bound the map by what should be a crossable river, San Luis that is. Simple logic says that Nuevo Paraiso is there. 

[Pudgehodge]

1 hour ago, MuffinMcFluffin said:

Great work, but the two cameras are way different. I'm sure that RDR 2 has more of a fish-eye lens going on, so objects in the distance are closer than they appear.

 

I'm not saying things aren't necessarily upscaled, but I also don't know if these shots are the true indicator because of the two different in-game cameras.

I agree that the cameras definitely have different fields of view between the 2 games, and I think many of the screenshots can be deceptive when looking at the size because you can see landmarks so far away, the draw distance is really far..

 

But I still think that this Blackwater image disproves the "massive upscale" theories. Like the people who think the map will be upscaled to 4x as large for example. Different lenses and fields of view can only do so much, and I personally don't think there's any way this region could be 4x the size it was in RDR when comparing images of West Elizabeth we've seen.

 

That being said, I still think there could be some small upscaling that would make a big difference when done throughout the map. 10% or 20% upscaling for example would hardly be noticeable, but over the whole map could easily add around 5 square miles. RDR's map is a bit less than half the size of GTA V's, meaning that it wouldn't take much upscaling or additional area to make it "bigger than GTA V's map" as it seems like so many are claiming. I think it could already be around the same size as GTA V's map if the ENTIRE RDR map is included with the new map (GTA V is around 23 square miles, RDR is around 10, the new parts of RDR2's map are larger than RDR's original map by at least a couple square miles, so that puts the combined square footage of a non-upscaled RDR2 map (Mexico included) at around 22-24 square miles.

[Chinese Takeout]

2 hours ago, bakerach said:

...what R* is calling the "Eastern Grizzlies," aka the Appalachians.

When did Rockstar call them the Eastern Grizzlies? I missed that.

AFAIK, the only mention of "Grizzlies" by R* are in the Leaked Map and in the Mt. Hagen postcard section of their website. On the leaked map, the Grizzlies are divided into "Grizzlies Intro" and "Grizzlies Proper," but I highly doubt that distinction will remain after the beginning tutorial...in the world of RDR2, out of the many regions, THE GRIZZLIES will be one of them...the 2 in the leaked map will become one.

And while I think there are certainly visual and naming clues that reference the Rockies & the Appalachians, I think R* made the easy decision to combine the two (relativey) North-South ranges into one East-West range at the top of the map. This solves a fundamental part of their game design: how to organically enclose their map. The Grizzlies are a single range that span the northern boundary of the map, and are reminiscent of both the Rockies and the Apps. That's how I see it.

 

Although, if there is some instance of R* talking about the "Eastern Grizzlies," I may very well be wrong.

[DuPz0r]

45 minutes ago, Pudgehodge said:

That image could very easily be part of New Austin, or even possibly part of an area above New Austin if there is a map expansion beyond the old map's boundaries. 

 

I searched high and low in RDR for that screenshot location. I found some similar locations, but I think even if it is New Austin it isn't the exact same.. some of the big rock formations and even background mountains are likely different from what we saw in RDR. The main think I was looking for was a location with BOTH of those tall plants we see in the image, and the only place in New Austin that has that is around Gaptooth Ridge (the border from Rathskeller Fork down to around Benedict Pass is where the cactus and that other plant both exist together (as one area transitions into another), so I think it's likely somewhere around there, or possibly in a new area north of Rathskeller Fork/ Cholla Springs.

 

It's also possible that it's in Mexico, but I actually think it resembles New Austin MUCH more than anywhere in Nuevo Paraiso (in colour, plant life, landscape, landmarks, etc.).

 

This is the closest I could get for a match (forgive the terrible screen capture quality) in New Austin in terms of most/ all of the most noticeable landmarks being there (no cacti in this image, but this area is just outside of where the cacti stop, so the cacti area could easily have been expanded in the new game).

Some things are off of course (like the angle, height, rock shapes & size, some differences in the mountains and hills in the terrain, etc.), but I think it could be 1 of several locations in New Austin that look similar to the screenshot.

 

This image is actually looking west, and there are other locations/ perspectives nearby that look south towards the Mexico mountains that could also be candidates for comparing, this is just the one that was closest when it comes to all of the rocks and hills being there.

That's pretty close, best we've had so far anyway. Can you show me where on the map you took this?

Thanks.

[Ali623]

42 minutes ago, Jabalous said:

Rockstar wouldn't be the type to bound the map by what should be a crossable river, San Luis that is. Simple logic says that Nuevo Paraiso is there. 

It'll only be there if it's related to the story in some way, otherwise they're not just going to have it there for the sake of it.

[Jabalous]

7 minutes ago, Ali623 said:

It'll only be there if it's related to the story in some way, otherwise they're not just going to have it there for the sake of it.

Of course, and there'll be a story for it, same way as New Austin is there because there's a story for it, and not because of nostalgia or fan service. 

Edited October 14, 2018 by Jabalous

[Smudjed]

25 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

When did Rockstar call them the Eastern Grizzlies? I missed that.

AFAIK, the only mention of "Grizzlies" by R* are in the Leaked Map and in the Mt. Hagen postcard section of their website. On the leaked map, the Grizzlies are divided into "Grizzlies Intro" and "Grizzlies Proper," but I highly doubt that distinction will remain after the beginning tutorial...in the world of RDR2, out of the many regions, THE GRIZZLIES will be one of them...the 2 in the leaked map will become one.

And while I think there are certainly visual and naming clues that reference the Rockies & the Appalachians, I think R* made the easy decision to combine the two (relativey) North-South ranges into one East-West range at the top of the map. This solves a fundamental part of their game design: how to organically enclose their map. The Grizzlies are a single range that span the northern boundary of the map, and are reminiscent of both the Rockies and the Apps. That's how I see it.

 

Although, if there is some instance of R* talking about the "Eastern Grizzlies," I may very well be wrong.

Came out in an article on Friday by IGN.

 

Over the next couple of hours, as I rode north through the industrial town of Annesburg to the East Grizzlies – the slightly less cold but much foggier cousin of the snowy mountains you start in – before heading back down to the Heartlands, I cannot shake the nagging feeling that something is missing.

 

 

https://m.uk.ign.com/articles/2018/10/11/red-dead-redemption-2-is-a-brutal-world-for-a-lonely-cowboy

[Pudgehodge]

54 minutes ago, DuPz0r said:

That's pretty close, best we've had so far anyway. Can you show me where on the map you took this?

Thanks.

Something like this:

 

Again, it's looking toward the western mountains as opposed to the southern Mexico mountains (which I still think the mountains in the lizard image resemble more than the western mountains), but the west mountains are also pretty dry and have a similar look, and it's definitely possible that the revamped look in RDR2 makes has them looking like that. As I mentioned, there aren't any saguaro (cactus) in the screenshot I used in the comparison, but those cactus are very close nearby.

 

I do recommend to any location hunters to explore near this area though, there are some other locations looking toward the Mexico mountains that also have resemblance, and most Gaptooth Ridge's border (border on Cholla Springs & Rio Bravo) contains the exact type of scenery seen in that lizard image: big rock formations, distant dry mountains, and the 2 large desert plants (saguaro cactus and the tree below).

 This plant, anyone know the name of it? EDIT: It's a Joshua Tree

 

There aren't too many regions that have both joshua tree and saguaro cactus, but again it's possible that the areas with both plants have been expanded in RDR2. Though you'd still have to think that they'd keep the most prominent plants for each region somewhat similar to RDR. Here's an image with both plants in the same area, up near Rathskeller Fork:

Edited October 14, 2018 by Pudgehodge

[Cutter De Blanc]

4 minutes ago, Pudgehodge said:

 This plant, anyone know the name of it?

 

 

It's a Joshua Tree https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca_brevifolia

Edited October 14, 2018 by Cutter De Blanc

[Chinese Takeout]

59 minutes ago, Smudjed said:

Came out in an article on Friday by IGN.

Oh, ok, thanks. I hadn't seen that.

 

I dont really consider it confirmation until Rockstar says/prints it. This guy could just be referring to the Eastern part of The Grizzlies region, rather than a separate region named "The East Grizzlies."

Edited October 14, 2018 by Chinese Takeout

[Sausache]

47 minutes ago, Smudjed said:

Came out in an article on Friday by IGN.

 

Over the next couple of hours, as I rode north through the industrial town of Annesburg to the East Grizzlies – the slightly less cold but much foggier cousin of the snowy mountains you start in – before heading back down to the Heartlands, I cannot shake the nagging feeling that something is missing.

 

 

https://m.uk.ign.com/articles/2018/10/11/red-dead-redemption-2-is-a-brutal-world-for-a-lonely-cowboy

It's pretty likely then that all the shots of foggy forests(excluding obviously bayou/swamp ones) are from the Eastern Grizzlies. That must explain the naming behind Ironclouds. I'd wager the redwoods we've seen are in that region too. 

[Chinese Takeout]

49 minutes ago, Pudgehodge said:

Gaptooth Ridge's border (border on Cholla Springs & Rio Bravo) contains the exact type of scenery seen in that lizard image: big rock formations, distant dry mountains, and the 2 large desert plants

There aren't too many regions that have both joshua tree and saguaro cactus, but again it's possible that the areas with both plants have been expanded in RDR2. :

I was trying to find the old posts where we talked about this in detail but couldn't. In RDR1, R* took great pains to visually distinguish one region from another with distinct but subtle visual cues. After spending a lot of time going back and forth, it soon became apparent that Cholla Springa was the only region that contained ALL of the elements we were seeing in the Lizard shot (i.e. Gaptooth Ridge is almost exclusively Joshua Trees). But, while in RDR1 Cholla Springs might be the only region that 100% matches up to the RDR2 shot, we have no evidence that R* has not revamped the New Austin regions, so we still dont have what I would call DEFINITIVE evidence that the shot is taken within the NEW Cholla  Springs (or the NEW any other region, for that matter).

But, if they HAVEN'T made any major changes to the regional flora found in RDR1, then Cholla Springs seems to be the best guess.

 

EDIT: Okay, I found some of the old posts...

 

1. This first one is the mostly relevant one, where I compared the flora of the various regions in RDR1 to the RDR2 Red Lizard shot...

 

2. Post on why the Lizard Shots are found NO WHERE within the regions of the Leaked Map...

 

3. Total hogwash...

 

4. Possible views IF RDR2 NA is comparable to RDR1 NA...

 

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by Chinese Takeout

[TexasOdysseus]

2 hours ago, jdogg17873 said:

https://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/10/14/red-dead-redemption-2-file-size/

 

looks like the the actual file size is about 90GB - that is huge compared to any other game being released right now

 

this map is going to be huge

Also remember, however, that the depth of the game is probably also monstrously demanding, beyond the rote map size. 

 

If you can interact with almost anything and the NPC interactions are so deep and voluminous, I'm sure that drives a good amount of processing. I'm not dissuading you from your notion, but the file size could be a function of a lot of things cumulatively, not solely map size. That said, I do still think this will be a massive map. 

[Bleep%]

I implore everybody who is apart of the Mapping thread to watch this.

 

It may give you some ideas or strategies in regards to those "Stuck moments" as times have seen people going around in circles & others rehashing things already solved just reworded different thinking it's new information & moments of stuck.

 

This is the general break down of the video

but I still encourage people to watch the video as things of each point are discussed & may give you ideas on tackling the mapping. Even the points of 6 & 7 may gleam relevancy to the Mapping thread.

[Fachewachewa]

1 hour ago, TexasOdysseus said:

Also remember, however, that the depth of the game is probably also monstrously demanding, beyond the rote map size. 

 

If you can interact with almost anything and the NPC interactions are so deep and voluminous, I'm sure that drives a good amount of processing. I'm not dissuading you from your notion, but the file size could be a function of a lot of things cumulatively, not solely map size. That said, I do still think this will be a massive map. 

I think file size is mostly due to textures and voicelines (size of games exploded with HD textures)? So yeah, things like animal species, clothes and gun detail, or NPC interactions must be a big part of that, it's not just different terrain textures.

[Racket89]

3 hours ago, jimmybrooks said:

In addition to the to the RDR against RDR2 revamped shots i wanted to show off the birch trees area, but i can't find a shot of it in RDR by now, but i'm sure i have seen it there somewhere .. is it actually in Hennigan's Stead? One of the rare shots from New Austen?

This shot always reminds me of Stillwater Creek near Thieves Landing in RDR1, around Billy West's house, the end point for the "Flowers for a Lady" stranger mission. Not been able to find an exact similar spot though in my searching.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Racket89

[Pudgehodge]

Another location I've been wondering about - I'm not sure if this lake location has been analyzed much, but I haven't seen any discussion on it so here's my analysis:

 

Do you folks think this is the correct location for this image?

There are a few images of this place. Looks like a lake (Lake Owanjita?), and is clearly a camp. There is no camp marker on the leaked map in this spot so my analysis is based on the assumption that the leaked map doesn't show every single gang camp/ hideout.

 

To me the background hills on the left look like the big forest hills that are across Flat Iron Lake and span all the way from upriver (across the river from Van Horn) down to the southern coast of Flat Iron (near where the river/ lake narrows and flows to Thieves Landing). Some other things we can see in the screenshot(s) are of course the lake & the lake shore... beyond that we can see what looks to be a cliff line (probably some riverside cliffs), and the most distant horizon we can see what looks to be some southern mountains. The perspective from the lake camp also looks to be fairly high up in elevation, which makes some sense for the Owanjita area. The forest hills I previously mentioned can be seen sloping down from left to right, and from left to right we can also see that the forest thins out on this horizon line and eventually turns to plains with some scattered trees here and there... which lines up with the area across the river from the Thieves Landing area:

 

Here are some other images that I think show the background regions of the Owanjita image (from several different angles):

 

In the snow image (bottom right), there is a large hill on the far left of the horizon line.. which I think is one of the biggest hills of the forest across Flat Iron Lake. I think it's likely the same big forest covered hill that can be seen on the left side of the Owanjita image, though there are several big green hills in that area. We can also see that if you go south-east beyond those big green hills, that is where the Mexico desert (and desert mountains) begin. The top left image (with the 4 riders) gives a good view of the forest hills on the left and where it transitions into desert that extents towards the right. In the top right image (Micah and Arthur) it gives a good view of the forests to the left of Micah, and it shows the forests thinning and turning to plains/ grasslands as it gets closer towards Thieves Landing. As for the Raonoke Ridge image (bottom left), it's hard to see much but you can at least see the green hills on the other side of Flat Iron, and we can see that the riverside greenery seems to run all the way along the coast and up the Lannahechee.

 

A mock-up with some perspective of what the background seems to look like beyond the map's boundaries:

[Bleep%]

4 hours ago, Pudgehodge said:

 

~Snip

 

This image is actually looking west, and there are other locations/ perspectives nearby that look south towards the Mexico mountains that could also be candidates for comparing, this is just the one that was closest when it comes to all of the rocks and hills being there.

Well done. The era is based off 1899 so roads in RDR2 may not be there from RDR1. 

 

So landscape maybe similar but not necessarily the man made trails that depict a long standing from 1899 as it hasn't arrived to the era of 1911 yet. So got to think "Back in time" like you have to garner a sense of perspective.

 

Aka Thinking Outside The Box.

 

Again. Welldone. 

[Borland12]

Guys, let's play Guess. How do you think what page full leaked map will be posted on? My guess is within next 11 pages. It would be symbolic if it's page 250 

[DuPz0r]

4 hours ago, Pudgehodge said:

Something like this:

 

Again, it's looking toward the western mountains as opposed to the southern Mexico mountains (which I still think the mountains in the lizard image resemble more than the western mountains), but the west mountains are also pretty dry and have a similar look, and it's definitely possible that the revamped look in RDR2 makes has them looking like that. As I mentioned, there aren't any saguaro (cactus) in the screenshot I used in the comparison, but those cactus are very close nearby.

 

I do recommend to any location hunters to explore near this area though, there are some other locations looking toward the Mexico mountains that also have resemblance, and most Gaptooth Ridge's border (border on Cholla Springs & Rio Bravo) contains the exact type of scenery seen in that lizard image: big rock formations, distant dry mountains, and the 2 large desert plants (saguaro cactus and the tree below).

 This plant, anyone know the name of it? EDIT: It's a Joshua Tree

 

There aren't too many regions that have both joshua tree and saguaro cactus, but again it's possible that the areas with both plants have been expanded in RDR2. Though you'd still have to think that they'd keep the most prominent plants for each region somewhat similar to RDR. Here's an image with both plants in the same area, up near Rathskeller Fork:

One of our earlier theories pointed towards that exact direction, as @Chinese Takeout nicely sourced us with quotes from many mamy pages ago. I feel like we're strongly close to finding/have found the right location, it just depends on how much R* has changed the map.

Edited October 14, 2018 by DuPz0r

[bakerach]

6 hours ago, Chinese Takeout said:

Although, if there is some instance of R* talking about the "Eastern Grizzlies," I may very well be wrong.

I guess I was remembering talk from previews, like the latest one from IGN:

 

"Over the next couple of hours, as I rode north through the industrial town of Annesburg to the East Grizzlies – the slightly less cold but much foggier cousin of the snowy mountains you start in"

[2019Redifiv/2020Modifiv]

I found something that might be of GREAT importance, especially regarding finding a logical reason as to why Rockstar perhaps is deliberately  ensuring that certain parts of the map, are not revealed in any marketing materials.

 

This is a Google Translation of an Italian translation of what Rockstar said verbatim back in may.

 

The first part will be familiar to most, but the second part is where it gets really interesting.

 

"Coming back to this area in a while you might find this building completed and in operation", the developers tell us: " that of Red Dead Redemption 2 will be a world in some evolutionary ways, where you will build railways and towns they will expand "

 

https://www.everyeye.it/articoli/anteprima-red-dead-redemption-2-vi-raccontiamo-epopea-western-rockstar-38572.html

 

[Len Lfc]

1 hour ago, Borland12 said:

Guys, let's play Guess. How do you think what page full leaked map will be posted on? My guess is within next 11 pages. It would be symbolic if it's page 250 

Page 240... 

[MarlboroMan1995]

2 hours ago, Borland12 said:

Guys, let's play Guess. How do you think what page full leaked map will be posted on? My guess is within next 11 pages. It would be symbolic if it's page 250 

If we get the release trailer first and there are some NA scenes or some territory we cannot i.d. Easy, then the thread will blow past 250. 

[Seanonimo1SA]

8 hours ago, Pudgehodge said:

That image could very easily be part of New Austin, or even possibly part of an area above New Austin if there is a map expansion beyond the old map's boundaries. 

 

I searched high and low in RDR for that screenshot location. I found some similar locations, but I think even if it is New Austin it isn't the exact same.. some of the big rock formations and even background mountains are likely different from what we saw in RDR. The main think I was looking for was a location with BOTH of those tall plants we see in the image, and the only place in New Austin that has that is around Gaptooth Ridge (the border from Rathskeller Fork down to around Benedict Pass is where the cactus and that other plant both exist together (as one area transitions into another), so I think it's likely somewhere around there, or possibly in a new area north of Rathskeller Fork/ Cholla Springs.

 

It's also possible that it's in Mexico, but I actually think it resembles New Austin MUCH more than anywhere in Nuevo Paraiso (in colour, plant life, landscape, landmarks, etc.).

 

This is the closest I could get for a match (forgive the terrible screen capture quality) in New Austin in terms of most/ all of the most noticeable landmarks being there (no cacti in this image, but this area is just outside of where the cacti stop, so the cacti area could easily have been expanded in the new game).

Some things are off of course (like the angle, height, rock shapes & size, some differences in the mountains and hills in the terrain, etc.), but I think it could be 1 of several locations in New Austin that look similar to the screenshot.

 

This image is actually looking west, and there are other locations/ perspectives nearby that look south towards the Mexico mountains that could also be candidates for comparing, this is just the one that was closest when it comes to all of the rocks and hills being there.

Omg, that is the zone!!! Wtf how you noticed of that??. Is incredible

You dont have eyes, you have ray X scan

 

 

Very nice 10/10

Edited October 15, 2018 by Seanonimo1SA

[RedDead91]

Is this legit? Just popped up on my Instagram. Looks like New Austin to me 

 

 https://www.instagram.com/p/Bo7B2e6iMd9/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1r1j43pze08uv

[Non Funkable Token]

6 minutes ago, RedDead91 said:

Is this legit? Just popped up on my Instagram. Looks like New Austin to me 

 

 https://www.instagram.com/p/Bo7B2e6iMd9/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1r1j43pze08uv

Faker than a pair of Vinewood tits.

 

The real one 

Spoiler

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Fluffy Sock

[Sunny_D]

3 minutes ago, RedDead91 said:

Is this legit? Just popped up on my Instagram. Looks like New Austin to me 

 

 https://www.instagram.com/p/Bo7B2e6iMd9/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1r1j43pze08uv

Faker than Nicki Minaj's ass.

[cremefraiche]

5 minutes ago, RedDead91 said:

Is this legit? Just popped up on my Instagram. Looks like New Austin to me 

 

 https://www.instagram.com/p/Bo7B2e6iMd9/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1r1j43pze08uv

Not sure, but the last image is Endor from Star Wars battlefront. Which kinda makes me think the rest are fake too

 

Edit: Does this help our mappers in any way? New screen from Vulture article 

Edited October 15, 2018 by cremefraiche

[retrogamer397]

Hey Guys,

Here are some tid-bits on some Red Dead Redemption 2 facts given by Vulture.  (No spoilers)

 

Red Dead Redemption 2 has 2,000 pages of dialogue for story alone. With side quests and extras, the stack comes for 8ft long.

 

R* hired around 1,200 actors for motion for motion work and 700+ for voicing. All the actors are highly qualified in their role.

 

500,000 lines of dialogue and even more lines of code. 300,000 different animations.

 

Interestingly, Dan Houser said that they may start working on Red Dead 3 if Red Dead 2 is critically successful. 

 

Romancing is (kinda) confirmed as Dan mentions that love interests are part of the game (Arthur has one.) 

 

Apparently, the game was mentioned to be 65 hours long. However, not sure if that included the story mode or everything that could be done in the game. The article is a bit vague on that.

 

Those are all that stuck out to me. Unfortunately, no news on the world size....

 

(Warning: Very mild spoilers on the game's intro..)

Source:http://www.vulture.com/2018/10/the-making-of-rockstar-games-red-dead-redemption-2.html

Edited October 15, 2018 by retrogamer397