Mapping Red Dead Redemption 2! Landmark Analysis Thread

[BretMaverick777]

46 minutes ago, Gangsta Braze said:

If anything that island region could possibly be north Yankton 2.0 

On that subject:

 

 

Lately I've been rethinking "Guarma."   The thing we know about it is that it's a location with both French and Spanish cultural influences; we know they make rum -- and, by extension, grow sugarcane -- there.  We know there's a town of indeterminate size with a Creole name; we know we stay long enough to require a caravan camp to operate in such a (presumably) tiny area.   The cultural theories have always pointed to the Caribbean or South America, which make sense.  

 

But.   Know what else makes sense for that region?   Lemoyne. 

Look, Lemoyne is definitely an area with both French Creole and Spanish history.   Louisiana (Lemoyne) is also famous for growing sugarcane.   So maybe it's not an off-map map after all, but merely a misplaced island of Lemoyne.  Somewhere in the bayou, or maybe an island south of St. Denis, in the Lannahechee River between Lemoyne and Mexico.   Reachable by boat, but still accessible to the world map.   Just a thought....Guarma may not be that far away at all.

[Racket89]

37 minutes ago, Tonesta said:

Sweeping Deserts would then be slightly misleading advertising because you could only see them not free roam through them. But Rockstar have from time to time exaggerated in their advertising.

There's exaggerating, but for me this would be downright lying if there wasn't a desert to explore, seeing as it's a biome they listed within seconds of the title introduction of the very first gameplay video. I can't see them shoving that scene into their list of places to explore, as one of the very first things in their big marketing push for release, and not having it as part of the overall world.

Whether New Austin is part of that permanent open world is another question, but I still feel that including a scene in Armadillo. and making it blatantly obvious that it's Armadillo in that scene, means it's likely more than just a North Yankton. I there there would have been more smoke and mirrors if the area was only in for a linear experience rather than doing everything but having a big neon saying saying "This shot is in the sheriff's office in Armadillo" to people who have played the original.

[ivarblaauw]

I find it very hard to believe we don't get New Austin at this moment in time. 

Various sources confirm it, even important game outlets, and because one person says he ain't sure, we suddenly all jump the bandwagon. 

 

No. New Austin will surely see the light of day in RDR II. Be it in Online only or for both. 

 

Also keep in mind that this game has a scale not seen before in Rockstargames' games. Not only is it incredibly detailed, it is also immense in size. 
*Quotes incoming. You can look for confirmation on the last couple of pages.
Literal quote from R* employee: 'You see that mountain, normally you would think you can go to there, in this game you can go beyond that.' *Beyond the drawdistance!

Literal quote from Dutch Newsoutlet: 'RDR I's map will be in the game in it's entirety. *Was quickly taken down when R* saw it themselves
From UK, Italian and German news outlets: 'RDRII will be the biggest map of R* till this date'

We literally know Cholla Springs will be back
We literally know Armadillo will be back

 

C'mon guys, we know better than to let all hope fare away.

 

Also don't forget the TrustedReviews leak, which had everything right, down to the f*cking name of the hunting mechanic!

Edited October 9, 2018 by ivarblaauw

[colahead420]

56 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

If you applied logic and common sense as much as you did devil's advocacy, this would be a much better world to live in.   Rockstar is in the business of selling games, not selling r*ckteases.   They make money by selling working maps, not invisible walls.  It behooves them nothing, it profits them nothing, to make invisible walls.  Anywhere, anytime.  Let alone MARKET AND ADVERTISE those invisible walls. 

 

Here's the logical, common sense solution:   Rockstar are showing us pictures of New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso because they're in the goddam game, and they want us to play there.   Because WE want to play there, and they damn well know it. 

I'd have to agree with this.  I've been trying not to expect New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso but they've been teasing the entire area.  They're also well aware how good people are at matching screenshots with leaked information, old maps, etc. I can't imagine R* would either be careless enough to not realize what they did or evil enough to blatantly show these areas and then not include it as part of the open world.  For the record, I'll be content with this game and the map regardless, but I will be curious why they've shown these regions if they end up not including them.

[2019Redifiv/2020Modifiv]

4 minutes ago, ivarblaauw said:

I find it very hard to believe we don't get New Austin at this moment in time. 

Various sources confirm it, even important game outlets, and because one person says he ain't sure, we suddenly all jump the bandwagon. 

 

No. New Austin will surely see the light of day in RDR II. Be in Online only or for both. 

 

Also keep in mind that this game has a scale not seen before in Rockstargames' games. Not only is it incredibly detailed, it is also immense in size. 
*Quotes incoming. You can look for confirmation on the last couple of pages.
Literal quote from R* employee: 'You see that mountain, normally you would think you can go to there, in this game you can go beyond that.' *Beyond the drawdistance!

Literal quote from Dutch Newsoutlet: 'RDR I's map will be in the game in it's entirety. *Was quickly taken down when R* saw it themselves
From UK, Italian and German news outlets: 'RDRII will be the biggest map of R* till this date'

We literally know Cholla Springs will be back
We literally know Armadillo will be back

 

C'mon guys, we know better than to let all hope fare away.

 

Also don't forget the TrustedReviews leak, which had everything right, down to the f*cking name of the hunting mechanic!

I would wager that the following headline is the most reliable proof of the size of the map. 

Red Dead Redemption 2 extended gameplay preview: Six hours in Rockstar's biggest ever map

We are talking about The Daily Telegraph here. More than 150 years of legacy and pedigree and journalistic accolades . Regardless of my opinion of their political leanings, one thing remains certain. They would NOT print that headline unless they were 100% sure.

 

 

 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gaming/features/red-dead-redemption-2-extended-gameplay-preview-day-rockstars/

 

 

 

[Len Lfc]

2 hours ago, SeniorDerp said:

even down to naming "Eagle Eye"

Eagle eye?

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, jevity said:

We are talking about The Daily Telegraph here. More than 150 years of legacy and pedigree and journalistic accolades . Regardless of my opinion of their political leanings, one thing remains certain. They would NOT print that headline unless they were 100% sure.

 Someone has never ventured into their sports page.

 

The Telegraph is definitely better than the tabloid rags, but don't take their word as gospel.

[colahead420]

48 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

Lately I've been rethinking "Guarma."   The thing we know about it is that it's a location with both French and Spanish cultural influences; we know they make rum -- and, by extension, grow sugarcane -- there.  We know there's a town of indeterminate size with a Creole name; we know we stay long enough to require a caravan camp to operate in such a (presumably) tiny area.   The cultural theories have always pointed to the Caribbean or South America, which make sense.  

My initial thought was that this island is based off of Haiti and the Dominican Republic (Le Vitaj west and El Hueco east) and was located either directly south of Lemoyne or east of the Lannahechee River.  If not, it wasn't an island at all and was actually the land mass south of Flat Iron Lake and east of Diez Coronas and Hennigan's Stead.  My guess is still an island south of Lemoyne, accessible by boat or some sort of ferry we can't control... or perhaps fast travel only.

[ivarblaauw]

3 minutes ago, Len Lfc said:

Eagle eye?

yes, Dead eye is the name for the shooting slow time mechanic. Eagle eye will be the Hunting tracking mechanic

 

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

 Someone has never ventured into their sports page.

 

The Telegraph is definitely better than the tabloid rags, but don't take their word as gospel.

yeah, but it printed it along with about a few dozen other tabloids/papers/outlets. 

[Drummer98]

Last week I saw the Ig story from a guy that has written the Everyeye preview, and he said that the map will be at least 3 times the size of the old map and that it will be a big surprise for the fans.

[Len Lfc]

2 minutes ago, ivarblaauw said:

yes, Dead eye is the name for the shooting slow time mechanic. Eagle eye will be the Hunting tracking mechanic

Ah, thanks. Not sure if I just never heard that, or if I just forgot. I haven't been reading too many details, but rather select bit of info that people pick out. Thanks!

[colahead420]

1 minute ago, Drummer98 said:

Last week I saw the Ig story from a guy that has written the Everyeye preview, and he said that the map will be at least 3 times the size of the old map and that it will be a big surprise for the fans.

The old map has to be around 2/3rds of the new map.  If the old map is included on top of that and you add all the bodies of water that we can now go in, that puts the new map right in this range.

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, ivarblaauw said:

yeah, but it printed it along with about a few dozen other tabloids/papers/outlets. 

Aye, The Telegraph saying it isn't enough evidence on it's own but multiple sources collaborating about it is a good sign it's true.

[ivarblaauw]

6 minutes ago, Len Lfc said:

Ah, thanks. Not sure if I just never heard that, or if I just forgot. I haven't been reading too many details, but rather select bit of info that people pick out. Thanks!

sorry by the way if I came on a little bit salty. My parents just had a serious car accident (they are okay) but they are about a 1000 miles away on holiday. So I might come off a bit harsh xD

 

 

4 minutes ago, colahead420 said:

The old map has to be around 2/3rds of the new map.  If the old map is included on top of that and you add all the bodies of water that we can now go in, that puts the new map right in this range.

I think you mean 1/3rds right?
Although I still think it is more like 1/4th or even more 

7 minutes ago, Drummer98 said:

Last week I saw the Ig story from a guy that has written the Everyeye preview, and he said that the map will be at least 3 times the size of the old map and that it will be a big surprise for the fans.

have a source on that?  

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by ivarblaauw

[Len Lfc]

3 minutes ago, ivarblaauw said:

sorry by the way if I came on a little bit salty. My parents just had a serious car accident (they are okay) but they are about a 1000 miles away on holiday. So I might come off a bit harsh xD

Not even in the slightest, don't worry.  You were quick, and answered my question easily Usually negative comments say something like "Pay attention next time, idiot, it's all were talking about noob, you living under a rock!?" or something like that

 

Oh, and sorry about the terrible news.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Len Lfc

[Chinese Takeout]

I have no doubt in my mind that this is a bridge and not a causeway. For a long time I thought it WAS a causeway (or something similar) because from all the distant angles we've seen it...it just appeared to be level with the ground. Because of its location, I am now convinced (along with many who were convinced a long time ago) that it's the same bridge from the GP2 trailer, with the dewds running on top of it in silhouette.

 

FWIW, I put together this video real quick, just to see if I could detect a smidgen of parallax movement between the bridge and anything NOT WATER around it...just to finalize this issue in my own brain once and for all. I wouldn't say this is conclusive, but, I believe you can see a TINY degree of parallax in this area. This gif is 3 frames superimposed...because of camera movement, there is distortion when trying to line them up, but that notwithstanding, I believe you can see the area I've marked by a green triangle reveal parallax as the camera moves with Arthur. You can see it better (maybe) in the video, below.

 

 

 

But, anyway...I've already made up my mind that it's the GP2 bridge. I just thought I'd show my work, in case it helps anyone else.

13 minutes ago, ivarblaauw said:

yes, Dead eye is the name for the shooting slow time mechanic. Eagle eye will be the Hunting tracking mechanic

That threw me for a loop too, haha. IDK how I missed that. Is that from one of the videos? Can you link me to where Rockstar refers to this as Eagle Eye? I want to re-watch/re-read that. Thanks!

 

Hope your parents are okay! Was it their car, or a rental? Anyway, hoping they are well and able to enjoy the rest of their holiday.

[ivarblaauw]

5 minutes ago, Len Lfc said:

Not even in the slightest, don't worry.  You were quick, and answered my question easily Usually negative comments say something like "Pay attention next time, idiot, it's all were talking about noob, you living under a rock!?" or something like that

 

Oh, and sorry about the terrible news.

Don't worry, they are okay and that is all that is important right now for me

 

5 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

 

 

But, anyway...I've already made up my mind that it's the GP2 bridge. I just thought I'd show my work, in case it helps anyone else.

That threw me for a loop too, haha. IDK how I missed that. Is that from one of the videos? Can you link me to where Rockstar refers to this as Eagle Eye? I want to re-watch/re-read that. Thanks!

 

Hope your parents are okay! Was it their car, or a rental? Anyway, hoping they are well and able to enjoy the rest of their holiday.

Definitely a bridge imo

Oh ah source xD wow, I read it in a few of the 2 hour previews, but I have absolutely no idea which one. I will try to look for one

And it was their own car (camper), but luckily it isn't totalled, the car what caused it however is...
 

[Nutduster]

17 hours ago, Orfan Loom said:

But they said every tree was placed by hand...

 

That doesn't mean they don't re-use an asset, it just means they manually decided where they would go instead of letting it be handled programmatically.

[ivarblaauw]

 

Spoiler

 

here is a link to a few sources about Eagle Eye:
https://www.gamespot.com/gallery/red-dead-redemption-2s-new-features-secret-passage/2900-2267/40/

 

quote:

You Have An Instinct Vision Called Eagle Eye

When you're tracking and hunting animals, you can activate what's called the Eagle Eye system. This displays key details in the environment that can help you close in on nearby game. It can also be used to see the scent coming off your body; a handy detail you can use to determine whether or not you should approach animals who might catch onto your presence.

https://mashable.com/article/79-little-details-in-red-dead-redemption-2/?europe=true

74) An Eagle Eye system is used to track and hunt animals. Activating it will also show the scent coming off of your body, which animals can catch wind of to track you.

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

 

 

read above

Edited October 9, 2018 by ivarblaauw

[2019Redifiv/2020Modifiv]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

 Someone has never ventured into their sports page.

 

The Telegraph is definitely better than the tabloid rags, but don't take their word as gospel.

Okay. I do however think that the fact a rather sizable number of outlets have all made the same claim, significantly reduces the risk of RDR2's map being smaller than GTA V's.

 

 We already know that GTA V's map is more than twice as big as RDR's.

 

So if we translate "bigger than GTA V" to mean "exactly one percent bigger than GTA V", then I see 4 likely cases :

 

1. NA and/or NP is NOT in the game proper, and therefore logic dictates that the areas revealed so far have to be as big as GTA V. 

 

2. NA and/or NP is NOT in the game proper, and therefore logic dictates that the areas revealed so far have to be as big as GTA V, unless there are more unannounced areas. 

 

3. NA and/or NP IS in the game proper, and the areas revealed so far plus NA and NP (with no change in scale), equate to a map as big as GTA V. 

 

4. NA and/or NP IS in the game proper, and the areas revealed so far plus NA and NP(scaled differently than in RDR) equate to a map as big as GTA V. 

 

And this is where I leave it to the experts in here. You have painstakingly analyzed every single pixel on every screen-shot and video, and you can tell better than anyone else, which of the 4 above mentioned possibilities is the most probable.

 

Personally, my layman's conclusion is as follows : 

 

I have seen people and buildings in the screen-shots. And I have seen people and buildings, both up-close and from faraway.

So, considering how big the average person is, and how big a regular door in a house is, and then looking at all the vistas with that in mind,

I don't think that the areas we have seen so far can rival the size of GTA V.

 

 

     

 

 

[Chinese Takeout]

10 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

Spoiler

 

I have no doubt in my mind that this is a bridge and not a causeway. For a long time I thought it WAS a causeway (or something similar) because from all the distant angles we've seen it...it just appeared to be level with the ground. Because of its location, I am now convinced (along with many who were convinced a long time ago) that it's the same bridge from the GP2 trailer, with the dewds running on top of it in silhouette.

 

FWIW, I put together this video real quick, just to see if I could detect a smidgen of parallax movement between the bridge and anything NOT WATER around it...just to finalize this issue in my own brain once and for all. I wouldn't say this is conclusive, but, I believe you can see a TINY degree of parallax in this area. This gif is 3 frames superimposed...because of camera movement, there is distortion when trying to line them up, but that notwithstanding, I believe you can see the area I've marked by a green triangle reveal parallax as the camera moves with Arthur. You can see it better (maybe) in the video, below.

 

 

 

But, anyway...I've already made up my mind that it's the GP2 bridge. I just thought I'd show my work, in case it helps anyone else.

 

 

EDIT: Oh, also over here...the object in the foreground (tree?) seems to obscure slightly more water between it and the "island"(?) further back in the water. I initially saw that dark foreground object as lying flat, and the train tracks passed over it...but, if it's vertical (which it appears to be, given the parallax), that means the tracks are elevated high above the water below.

 

[Drummer98]

10 minutes ago, ivarblaauw said:

sorry by the way if I came on a little bit salty. My parents just had a serious car accident (they are okay) but they are about a 1000 miles away on holiday. So I might come off a bit harsh xD

 

 

I think you mean 1/3rds right?
Although I still think it is more like 1/4th or even more 

have a source on that?  

 

From about the minute 28:20 

 

“Q: Did you see the whole map?

A: I didn’t saw it entirely because it was covered with fog of war, but I saw the borders and I somehow realized what the main areas are. My esteem is that the entire map is at least 3 times bigger than the original RDR.”

[Chinese Takeout]

5 minutes ago, ivarblaauw said:

 

Spoiler

 

here is a link to a few sources about Eagle Eye:
https://www.gamespot.com/gallery/red-dead-redemption-2s-new-features-secret-passage/2900-2267/40/

 

quote:

You Have An Instinct Vision Called Eagle Eye

When you're tracking and hunting animals, you can activate what's called the Eagle Eye system. This displays key details in the environment that can help you close in on nearby game. It can also be used to see the scent coming off your body; a handy detail you can use to determine whether or not you should approach animals who might catch onto your presence.

https://mashable.com/article/79-little-details-in-red-dead-redemption-2/?europe=true

74) An Eagle Eye system is used to track and hunt animals. Activating it will also show the scent coming off of your body, which animals can catch wind of to track you.

 

 

read above

That's awesome, i totally missed that! Thanks for posting! (you may want to go back and put it in a <spoiler tag> just to be safe).

[Nutduster]

5 hours ago, GTADKNUT said:

Just talked to my friend at Gamereactor, he told me the map was covered in fog of war thru the 2nd playthrough.

 

He told me he was pretty sure, that the whole old map, will not be in the game; Sounded like he had it confirmed by a R* employee - Since he the said, they said Blackwater and large portions of the map are in the game, but not thieves landing•

 

 

Not sure what to make of that at all.  It doesn't sound like you're sure of what he said, or that he confirmed Rockstar told him that either.  I could see them doing all kinds of things because as I've thought all along, it would be a lot of work and kind of problematic for continuity if they brought back the entire old map and let Arthur as well as the gang go wherever they want in it.  Then again, I do find all the other evidence (sweeping deserts, wildlife pics, video from both Blackwater and Armadillo) pretty compelling.  Any of that individually could mean they were North Yanktoning again (or Liberty-City-in-San-Andreas-ing).  But it would be really weird to show us all this in previews and then have our access to New Austin (at least) be so limited.

 

I am less sold on the return of Mexico.  The evidence for that seems sketchier, and the work to incorporate it into the game with all these new contextual dialogues seems like it would be a lot for them to bite off.  Could still be there, but if it's not accessible that would be not terribly surprising to me.  However, if New Austin isn't there and open at some point during the game, I'll be legit shocked.

[2019Redifiv/2020Modifiv]

That is very interesting, since that would make RDR2 at least 1,3 times bigger than GTA V

[ivarblaauw]

4 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

That's awesome, i totally missed that! Thanks for posting! (you may want to go back and put it in a <spoiler tag> just to be safe).

done bro

 

2 minutes ago, jevity said:

That is very interesting, since that would make RDR2 at least 1,3 times bigger than GTA V

At least. My guess is that it will be twice the size, but including locations we might not be able to venture to and water.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Drummer98 said:

From about the minute 28:20 

 

“Q: Did you see the whole map?

A: I didn’t saw it entirely because it was covered with fog of war, but I saw the borders and I somehow realized what the main areas are. My esteem is that the entire map is at least 3 times bigger than the original RDR.”

at least, which is probably without the original rdr map included. My guess is well 2x the size of GTA V as I said here above

[colahead420]

13 minutes ago, ivarblaauw said:

I think you mean 1/3rds right?
Although I still think it is more like 1/4th or even more 

No, I mean 2/3rds. I meant specifically the new area compared to the RDR map.

 

Basically, the northern portion of Big Valley past Little Creek and Ambarino is roughly the size of Nuevo Paraiso.  New Hanover is roughly the size of New Austin.  That leaves Lemoyne and the southern portion of Big Valley, which is the also roughly the size of Nuevo Paraiso.  All three areas look a little bit larger than what I compared them to in the original map.  Once you include Flat Iron Lake, the Lannahechee, and the possible Cinco Torres island, then more of West Elizabeth and the 3 new states, New Hanover, Ambarino, and Lemoyne, with the old map of New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso, that's when we get into the 1/3rd range.

[SeniorDerp]

2 hours ago, Tonesta said:

Sure, but the Trusted Reviews leak only stated that Armadillo and Ridgewood were returning. It makes no mention of anywhere else on the original map.

 

You could believe that whole leak, and also that Armadillo = North Yankton 2.0 without being inconsistent.

They said “you’ll discover serveral locations including Armadillo and Ridgewood” It didn’t suggested they are the only locations. Also, I’m not betting on the Trusted Reviews information because it’s untelling how old it is however, to this point everything it’s claimed been completely accurate. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by SeniorDerp

[ivarblaauw]

Just now, colahead420 said:

No, I mean 2/3rds. I meant specifically the new area compared to the RDR map.

 

Basically, the northern portion of Big Valley past Little Creek and Ambarino is roughly the size of Nuevo Paraiso.  New Hanover is roughly the size of New Austin.  That leaves Lemoyne and the southern portion of Big Valley, which is the also roughly the size of Nuevo Paraiso.  All three areas look a little bit larger than what I compared them to in the original map.  Once you include Flat Iron Lake, the Lannahechee, and the possible Cinco Torres island, then more of West Elizabeth and the 3 new states, New Hanover, Ambarino, and Lemoyne, with the old map of New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso, that's when we get into the 1/3rd range.

Ah okay! I thought you talked about the original rdr map, my bad!  

[GTADKNUT]

1 hour ago, BretMaverick777 said:

I'm pretty sure there's at least one completely unreliable source in this equation.  

Dude has no clue, so there's no reason to repeat hearsay about hearsay about hearsay.  

Why?

Why do some of you insist on doing this again and again?

If you applied logic and common sense as much as you did devil's advocacy, this would be a much better world to live in.   Rockstar is in the business of selling games, not selling r*ckteases.   They make money by selling working maps, not invisible walls.  It behooves them nothing, it profits them nothing, to make invisible walls.  Anywhere, anytime.  Let alone MARKET AND ADVERTISE those invisible walls. 

 

Here's the logical, common sense solution:   Rockstar are showing us pictures of New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso because they're in the goddam game, and they want us to play there.   Because WE want to play there, and they damn well know it. 

There is no need to be rude buddy, I would have gladly sent a screen pf the conversation, with his name, that is searchable - And would show he is chief editor at gamereactor at Denmark. no hearsay about it.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Nutduster said:

 

Not sure what to make of that at all.  It doesn't sound like you're sure of what he said, or that he confirmed Rockstar told him that either.  I could see them doing all kinds of things because as I've thought all along, it would be a lot of work and kind of problematic for continuity if they brought back the entire old map and let Arthur as well as the gang go wherever they want in it.  Then again, I do find all the other evidence (sweeping deserts, wildlife pics, video from both Blackwater and Armadillo) pretty compelling.  Any of that individually could mean they were North Yanktoning again (or Liberty-City-in-San-Andreas-ing).  But it would be really weird to show us all this in previews and then have our access to New Austin (at least) be so limited.

 

I am less sold on the return of Mexico.  The evidence for that seems sketchier, and the work to incorporate it into the game with all these new contextual dialogues seems like it would be a lot for them to bite off.  Could still be there, but if it's not accessible that would be not terribly surprising to me.  However, if New Austin isn't there and open at some point during the game, I'll be legit shocked.

Thw only thing he semed unsure of was the part about thieves landing.

 

The part about the map, he seemed very sure of.

 

He asked, and the Rockstar representatives exact words were (according to him) Blackwater and large portions of the old map are in. To me, and him, that indicated not all of the old map.