Mapping Red Dead Redemption 2! Landmark Analysis Thread

[BretMaverick777]

1 hour ago, Chinese Takeout said:

Oh snap, I knew I forgot to post something...

4K, and stuff.

(Someday I'm going to make a compilation of "THAT GODDAMNED TREE" that shows up in every shot, that we can't place (just to the right of the grainery).

Trying to understand this collage, because I'm not sure what photo(s) this is compiled from.   Are you saying that Broken Tree is visible in the background just to the right of the grain elevator?   That would put the orientation of that building as a POV facing west across the lake to Great Plains, a good distance away.  That orientation also shows the reverse of the angle seen in the purty sunset shot of the gang riding by it below.  

 

 

 

So if the shot from Rhodes shows the grain elevator west-northwest of town, and the side shed or w/e facing southwest, that means the daisy fields sunset faces E-SE towards the town.   Roughly here, with the gang at the crossroads just beneath it, turning onto the road east to Rhodes? 

34 minutes ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

Dollars to doughnuts one of the street names on that tram is Victory St., it's one of the only street names you can make out on the Saint Denis map, and that street (as far as I can tell) has the Spaldings on it. I'm guessing it's Victory St. and whatever the cross street the Tram is turning onto is.

Good call.  If the St. Denis streets have New Orleans counterparts, I'm thinking that means Victory Street would be NOLA's Canal Street, and Courtenay would be St. Charles.   Just a guess.

[Chinese Takeout]

3 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

Trying to understand this collage, because I'm not sure what photo(s) this is compiled from.   Are you saying that Broken Tree is visible in the background just to the right of the grain elevator?  

Nope. I'm referencing a conversation some of us had last week about how there's this phantom, lone tree that shows up in 80% of the shots, seemingly in an effort to mess with us, where some automatically think its Broken Tree, and others think it's some other significant tree, and still others think the tree is inconsequential, haha.

[Pink Pineapple]

1 hour ago, BretMaverick777 said:

 

 

That map might not be completely accurate. On the GTA V blueprint image on the website, the subway is marked incorrectly. It's just a small detail, but it shows that the RDR2 map above could be different than the real map.

 

[Sausache]

Alright, so I've been pretty interested in the grey part of the Grizzlies, and I think I've come to a conclusion. The white and the grey part are actually separate geographical regions. The intro portion is the only consistently snowy region, and the eastern portion is consistently not snowy, but very mountainous with a lot of forest. I'm pretty sure the scenes we've seen of the Redwoods, and the California style forests/mountains are all from that eastern portion of the Grizzlies.

We've seen two shots of Iron Clouds, one from Bacchus Bridge and another from around Grannite(?) Pass and it is clearly heavy with trees and cliffs (different in style than what we saw in Big Valley) sloping up to around the Loft that is very reminiscent of the N/NW portion of GTAV. We've seen absolutely nothing we can identify from Cohutta, ??? Rim or even The Loft. The grey Grizzlies seems to be split in two by a mountain-range with a valley in the top half that has 2 lakes and probably redwood forests.

 

Geographically compared to the united states, this is nonsensical, but considering that Rockstar also placed Monument Valley to the south of east Texas, it is not at all out of the ordinary. I have extreme doubts that the map extends any further west than Gaptooth Ridge, and while Owanjita is another potential location for redwoods, from a mapping perspective, it doesn't make sense to go there. Owanjita already has to fade Tall Trees into Big Valley, and putting the redwoods there make it twice as difficult. Not to mention, redwoods are a very interesting area, that if put into such a small corner already mostly taken up by a lake would be wasted.

[BretMaverick777]

One last bit of wonderment for the night: 

 

This shot from Gameplay 2 has got me very curious.  

Train heist, along the side of a large body of water.  I can't find any spot on Flat Iron flat enough and straight enough to accommodate this shot, so it seems far more likely to be along the Lannahechee.

 

There's plenty of spots that could qualify on the Lannahechee....the railroad runs right along the shoreline pretty much all the way.   This could be riding north from just outside St. Denis, or maybe farther up approaching Annesburg.  

There's a couple of curiosities in that shot, too:  

1)  the other side of the tracks features a row of very tall hooks, which I cannot figure out at all.   My best guess is they're lampposts, but it would be kinda odd to make them so high, so close to the rails, and it would imply the lamplighter takes them down during the day.  Just doesn't make much sense; otherwise, I've never seen those kinds of hooks before anywhere on the map.

2)  As someone pointed out a few days ago, if you look *really* close in the water behind Arthur (and a barely visible Dutch riding post), there's some hazy but unmistakable sailboats on the river.  Thing is, they look like *modern* sailboats/yachts, even GTA5 style, with the sail furled.  Weird.  It's possible they're steamers with a sail attached, which wasn't necessarily unusual for open water in that era.  Anyway, I count about 2 or 3 possible masted vessels on the river, which is cool and all.  God knows I'm getting more and more antsy to see some boats on the lake and river....reviewers HAVE confirmed them, at least.   Wild guess:   the boats could be moored at Tallulah Jetty?   Considering Tallulah Jetty was the home port of the infamous Serendipity, maybe it's a popular cove for gambling boats?  

[BretMaverick777]

6 minutes ago, Sausache said:

Alright, so I've been pretty interested in the grey part of the Grizzlies, and I think I've come to a conclusion. The white and the grey part are actually separate geographical regions. The intro portion is the only consistently snowy region, and the eastern portion is consistently not snowy, but very mountainous with a lot of forest. I'm pretty sure the scenes we've seen of the Redwoods, and the California style forests/mountains are all from that eastern portion of the Grizzlies.

We've seen two shots of Iron Clouds, one from Bacchus Bridge and another from around Grannite(?) Pass and it is clearly heavy with trees and cliffs (different in style than what we saw in Big Valley) sloping up to around the Loft that is very reminiscent of the N/NW portion of GTAV. We've seen absolutely nothing we can identify from Cohutta, ??? Rim or even The Loft. The grey Grizzlies seems to be split in two by a mountain-range with a valley in the top half that has 2 lakes and probably redwood forests.

 

Geographically compared to the united states, this is nonsensical, but considering that Rockstar also placed Monument Valley to the south of east Texas, it is not at all out of the ordinary. I have extreme doubts that the map extends any further west than Gaptooth Ridge, and while Owanjita is another potential location for redwoods, from a mapping perspective, it doesn't make sense to go there. Owanjita already has to fade Tall Trees into Big Valley, and putting the redwoods there make it twice as difficult. Not to mention, redwoods are a very interesting area, that if put into such a small corner already mostly taken up by a lake would be wasted.

We've seen shots of Iron Cloud...?   Where...?    I've been looking for clues to Iron Cloud and The Loft for months. 

 

(Granite Pass....why do so many people have a hard time deciphering that word on the map?)

 

The white-grey mountains have always been assumed by pretty much all of us to simply indicate a change in season.  The gated Intro section is covered with heavy snow during the Blizzard of '99; afterward, the whole mountain range, including Intro, seems to be standardized....mostly warmer weather temperate climes, but sporadic snow the higher you climb in elevation.  (Which is authentic....when I lived in Colorado, I could leave Colorado Springs in June in shorts and T-shirt and 80 degree weather in the morning and ride up to Estes Park in the middle of a snowblind blizzard by afternoon.) 

 

Owanjila....short for Wicahpi Owanjila.   It's a Lakota phrase for the Star That Does Not Move.   i.e., the North Star.  

[ivarblaauw]

8 hours ago, INFERNO E100 said:

dont be silly

 

it's 20 mins MAX

 

comparable to super fast cycling the length of GTAV

I will very much like to prove you wrong ma'am. Which I will do the second I get the game. 

 

Escalera to Blackwater takes me about 12 minutes. Van Horn is more than twice that distance.

 

8 hours ago, Jabalous said:

True, and I think that would be a fine balance between realism and fun. However, there's a risk in that a percentage of players will grow frustrated at the traveling distances. But hey, they have fast travel, and as you said, trains which can now serve as a meaningful transportation tool, giving the illusion of an adventure and an expansive and overwhelming world where you have to plan your trips. 

People just need to grow up. You play games for the experience, and a western is slowly paced. 

[Svip]

I probably have been over ambitious saying saying 'two real hours' travelling to New Austin.  But comparing that journey to travelling from Escalera to Blackwater is inaccurate.  That latter journey, you only travel on main roads.  So with a fast horse, you can make that in like 10 minutes.

 

I specifically said from the location we are first let loose in RDR2.  While two hours is definitely a miscalculation - I probably speak for myself, since I would constantly get distracted - I still don't think it would be doable in less than half an hour.  Considering what we know about the intro mission, we probably won't be near any main roads when we are free to roam, and will be forced to travel by trails for a significant portion of the trip.  Additionally, the horse we get, probably won't be as fast as those you have later.

 

Plus, I don't even know how you get from the Grizzlies to the Great Plains.  The leaked map doesn't contain a bridge over Montana River.  If we need to find other means of transport, that will surely hamper our ability to progress.

 

Are all these cravats fair?  Yes, because my point is not about map size, my point is how Rockstar Games is going to limit the map without actually closing anything off.  Like, 'yeah, you can get to New Austin straight away, but it will be damned complicated'.  If the player, however, follows the main plot, railways and other modern advances to transportation (like bridges!) opens up, easing one's transport into these other regions.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Svip

[DuPz0r]

4 hours ago, BretMaverick777 said:

I wish I could help you, my enigmatic Scottish friend, but if you're trying to make rhyme or reason of this map, you'll need a much better view of it.   The best I can offer you is that it's a stylized topo map with elevations marked in black, and depths (water) marked in brown.   This might show Flat Iron Lake or even the Lannahechee in the brown areas (depths), and cliffs/mountains in the black areas.   Otherwise, the only thing I can see in that map is that the grid seems to run 1-31 latitude, A through O longitude.   Best I can offer, don't know if it helps anything.

I was sitting in bed this morning, and i decided to look at the exclusive physical map. Then i had an epiphany: What if R* were throwing us off by showing us something we couldn't possibly map to the leaked map. Then it hit me. As soon as i thought that, i started seeing New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso forming in front of my eyes!

 

I jumped out of bed, turned on my PC and there is was, in front of me. R* have pretty much shown us Austin and Nuevo for months, right under our noses, and nobody noticed! I aligned the physical map to the RDR1 compass, and the letters and numbers facing the correct way. And this is what i got:

 

Again, i could be wrong. But if they are UHD remastering the RDR1 territories, the scale of things will surely be slightly different. To me, this matched this map more than anything we've seen on the leaked map... 

 

That's my Theory, you decide.

Edited October 7, 2018 by DuPz0r

[ivarblaauw]

1 minute ago, DuPz0r said:

I was sitting in bed this morning, and i decided to look at the exclusive physical map. Then i had an epiphany: What if R* were throwing us off by showing us something we couldn't possibly map to the leaked map. Then it hit me. As soon as i thought that, i started seeing New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso forming in front of my eyes!

 

I jumped out of bed, turned on my PC and there is was, in front of me. R* have pretty much show us Austin and Nuevo for months, right under our noses, and nobody noticed! I aligned the physical map to the RDR2 compass, and the letters and numbers facing the correct way. And this is what i got:

 

Again, i could be wrong. But if they are UHD remastering the RDR1 territories, the scale of things will surely be slightly different. To me, this matched this map more than anything we've seen on the leaked map... 

 

That's my Theory, you decide.

DUDE. YOU DID IT. 

[Salinoc]

First post here, but I think you'll find this interesting.

 

I have a far better match. Check this out :

 

 

 

 

[DuPz0r]

Did my RDR1 map idea spark interest? That is pretty convincing i must admit. Is at least part of Austin and Nuevo in the game then?

Edited October 7, 2018 by DuPz0r

[sabbathfan]

13 minutes ago, Salinoc said:

First post here, but I think you'll find this interesting.

 

I have a far better match. Check this out :

 

 

 

 

On the face of it, it does seem like a better match, but I don't think it matches up because it completely messes up the orientation of the map.

[Salinoc]

Just now, sabbathfan said:

On the face of it, it does seem like a better match, but I don't think it matches up because it completely messes up the orientation of the map.

 

It does, but if you look closely, the light brown lines matches EXACTLY on the old map. Cannot be a coincidence.

On the other hand, I don't understand the black lines, they seem out of place...

[Salinoc]

Now that I thin

21 minutes ago, sabbathfan said:

On the face of it, it does seem like a better match, but I don't think it matches up because it completely messes up the orientation of the map.

Now that I think of it, the messed-up orientation COULD make a lot of sense, and could even be an evidence for the presence New Austin/Nuevo Paradisio. What if the map was oriented at 45° so that it better matches the shape of the playable area ? Something like this :

 

(By the way, thank you DuPz0r for the amazing map !)

Edited October 7, 2018 by Salinoc

[ivarblaauw]

What if the black lines are supposed to be an image?  

 

An image on top of the map?

 

Although I don't see any of it making sense. 

 

At first I thought it were mountains, but that is not possible if Salinoc is right... it is when DuPz0r is though...

 

R* dafuq you doing.

 

Either way; both theories confirm New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso

Edited October 7, 2018 by ivarblaauw

[DuPz0r]

If my theory is correct, then that whole side of the map only shows about this much of the RDR1 map...

[Little Big Man]

DuPzOr, you're an absolute genius. I looked at that map for hours (literally) and barely got anywhere.

 

The Caribbean island should be named St. Dupez in your honour.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Little Big Man

[DuPz0r]

Decided to post a closer image for detail purposes. It resembles it a lot, and isn't 100% cookie cut, which is telling me that R* decided to rebuild the RDR map from the ground up and didn't just stick to the exact same placements. Which is good, i prefer that.

 

[cremefraiche]

44 minutes ago, ivarblaauw said:

What if the black lines are supposed to be an image?  

 

An image on top of the map?

 

Although I don't see any of it making sense. 

 

At first I thought it were mountains, but that is not possible if Salinoc is right... it is when DuPz0r is though...

 

R* dafuq you doing.

 

Either way; both theories confirm New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso

I'm starting to think those black lines aren't mountains as well.

 

Looking at it a bit closer this week I started to think that the idea of those black lines as mountains or elevation doesn't really seem to actually make much sense with the rest of the geography we can see in that image of the rolled up map, as limited as it may be. There's also clear examples of elevation on that map that don't use the black lines.

 

Reminds me kinda of how the GTA V map had the whole blueprint UV thing as well

Edited October 7, 2018 by cremefraiche

[Little Big Man]

It seems that whenever I score some personal goal (today I cleaned the house and installed a clothes drying pole thing), this project moves forward.

 

So if you're wondering what's holding things up, it's probably that.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Little Big Man

[Salinoc]

I still prefer my theory. here it is with the full map :

 

 

 

Look closely : it all matches. From Cochinay, the slopes along Aurore basin, the railway north of Pacific Union, and of course Thieves Landing island : it all matches 100%, almost pixel for pixel.

 

I''ve now no doubt that it is West Elizabeth, and that the map is 45% oriented. For me, the only remaining mystery is the black lines.

 

13 minutes ago, cremefraiche said:

I'm starting to think those black lines aren't mountains as well.

 

Looking at it a bit closer this week I started to think that the idea of those black lines as mountains or elevation doesn't really seem to actually make much sense with the rest of the geography we can see in that image of the rolled up map, as limited as it may be. There's also clear examples of elevation on that map that don't use the black lines.

 

Reminds me kinda of how the GTA V map had the whole blueprint UV thing as well

 

You may be right. Maybe this is a "treasure map" whith a black drawing of the lanscape where the treasure is buried, on top of the real map ?

Edited October 7, 2018 by Salinoc

[DuPz0r]

Yeah i see what you're saying, but that would be a strange angle to make the map if i'm honest. Again we can't rely on anything we see here 100%. It could just be for display.

 

One thing i dont understand with your theory though is why would the thick black lines be overlapping the mouth of the river like that? Makes no sense.

Edited October 7, 2018 by DuPz0r

[Len Lfc]

One thing is for sure. Rockstar certainly are ensuring I'm gonna look as soon as the full map is inevitably leaked. Can't deal with all this! 

Love it, though.

[Salinoc]

1 minute ago, DuPz0r said:

Yeah i see what you're saying, but that would be a strange angle to make the map if i'm honest. Again we can't rely on anything we see here 100%. It could just be for display.

You're right. It may be a quick photoshop just to give an idea of the final product, with portions of the map throwed in a random way. This may also explain why the light brown lines and the black lines don't match at all.

[Len Lfc]

Should we consider the fact that the rolled up map may not even be at all accurate? I don't see any real reason for them to do that, and (as far as I'm aware) they have no history altering or using a fake to advertise something like that. But maybe after GTA V and the blueprint map, they want to go the extra mile and keep as much as possible secret? Just a thought. I don't actually think that's the case, but... I don't think I'd be surprised if Rockstar were being ultra secretive.

[jimmybrooks]

Sorry that i have to come back to this shot, but i want to correct my thoughts on this area.

I believe now that originally the lake was supposed to be about 5-10x larger than seen in the trailer.

If you then compare landmasses or terrain, it all comes together pretty well with the leaked map.

So yeah, probably no new landmass added to the left, as i pointed out last times. (sorry). But still big enough, though!

Edited October 7, 2018 by jimmybrooks

[BretMaverick777]

2 hours ago, DuPz0r said:

If my theory is correct, then that whole side of the map only shows about this much of the RDR1 map...

Yet those areas make perfect sense from a marketing standpoint. 

The visible portion of the cloth map show Lake Don Julio, Rio Del Lobo and Del Lobo Rock, and Agave Viejo.

The EXACT areas they showed in the gila monster shots.  

 

Dude, I agree with the others.  I think you just proved New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso through the cloth map.  

[Mach1bud]

Wow...so the original map was in front of our faces literally the entire time lol. 

[BretMaverick777]

1 hour ago, Salinoc said:

I still prefer my theory. here it is with the full map :

 

 

 

Look closely : it all matches. From Cochinay, the slopes along Aurore basin, the railway north of Pacific Union, and of course Thieves Landing island : it all matches 100%, almost pixel for pixel.

 

I''ve now no doubt that it is West Elizabeth, and that the map is 45% oriented. For me, the only remaining mystery is the black lines.

 

 

You may be right. Maybe this is a "treasure map" whith a black drawing of the lanscape where the treasure is buried, on top of the real map ?

I don't see a "match" at all, even with the map laid at a 45 degree angle (for whatever reason....?)     It's totally haphazard...you've got mountains right in the middle of Great Plains, Thieves Landing, Pacific Union Railroad Camp, etc..... Plus there's no rhyme nor reason to make part of the map black and part of it brown.  

 

It's a valiant effort, but honestly I don't see the resemblance.   Just like spotting castles in the clouds on a summer's day.  

Edited October 7, 2018 by BretMaverick777