Mapping Red Dead Redemption 2! Landmark Analysis Thread

[LordMasterJT]

5 hours ago, BretMaverick777 said:

Roanoke Ridge is confirmed to be New Hanover via Annesburg writeup, so Cumberland Forest would have to be NH as well.

 

I agree that this seems most likely based on what we know and in just looking at the structure of the states, but I don't see how it's a definite at this point, and wouldn't be very surprised if Cumberland turns out to be all- or part- Ambarino-territory. Ah well.   

[TexasOdysseus]

So I've been following this whole thread closely and, again, many thanks to the astute observers and mappers--great job all the way to all of you!--but there's one concern I have regarding the ongoing discussion to railroads that we've had that hasn't been mentioned yet: rail grade. 

 

We see railroad tracks in a lot of HIGH elevation places and we know they traverse the map all over the place. But when I look at that leaked map with the rail template, I have some concerns that R*, in all their amazing efforts to replicate reality, are once again eclipsing max grade for trains. It may not be enough to suspend disbelief about, and they certainly have to be able to fold railways into the map somehow, but to go from mountains to valley floor, given at LEAST a few thousand feet of elevation change, has to be considered. I'm not a huge train nerd (although I have a sizable Lionel collection, largely inherited from my Dad that goes up around Christmas), but that was something from RDR1 that bugged me in a few places. Anyhow, just throwing it out there--not certain if it's germane per se to the existing mapping discussions, and since we don't know the scale and actual distances involved from the leaked map (which may not be accurate now anyhow), it's nigh impossible to extrapolate the slope and grades of the tracks. 

 

Also, do we have ANY clue on the Sisika Penitentiary? That island is siting there taunting me at this point. 

Edited October 6, 2018 by TexasOdysseus

[Brett Baumler]

2 hours ago, DuPz0r said:

Thanks, i plan to. I'm in talks with a programmer about making an interactive map app with pickups, hidden items, etc. Which you can log in and save progress. Should be fun.

My of you’re a legend, I need this

[¡MAYDAY!]

3 hours ago, Svip said:

I would not be surprised if the distance - in real time, not game time - from the first moment you are free to roam till you reach New Austin (and yes, I mean just Thieves' Landing) will be several hours

So basically you're saying the ride from Horsehoe Overlook to Thieves Landing will be a two hour ride... The map would have to be HUGE for that to be true. Would be extremely awesome, but I can't see it being THAT big.

[TexasOdysseus]

2 hours ago, DuPz0r said:

Thanks, i plan to. I'm in talks with a programmer about making an interactive map app with pickups, hidden items, etc. Which you can log in and save progress. Should be fun.

This would be BRILLIANT!!

[Len Lfc]

25 minutes ago, ¡MAYDAY! said:

So basically you're saying the ride from Horsehoe Overlook to Thieves Landing will be a two hour ride... The map would have to be HUGE for that to be true. Would be extremely awesome, but I can't see it being THAT big.

Not even FUEL takes that long. Rest assured, it won't take hours to cross. 

[Chinese Takeout]

20 minutes ago, Len Lfc said:

Not even FUEL takes that long. Rest assured, it won't take hours to cross. 

Haha, FUEL. That brings back memories. Some of them good.

[ivarblaauw]

Even if the scale is upped 2x in comparison with RDR1, a ride from Escalera to Van Horn takes about 1 hour-1.5 hours (depending on the horse). 

 

Not upscaled it takes about 25-35 minutes. 

 

To me an upped 2x is the ultimate size. Rides are long, but not boringly long. 

 

Previewers said that a ride from St. Denis to Valentine took a really, really long time. Imo that sounds like it is around 25-30 minutes instead of 10-12 minutes if it was rdr1 scale. 

 

*+ a 2x scaled map would finally make trains a legit transportation mode

Edited October 6, 2018 by ivarblaauw

[Len Lfc]

For what it's worth, over my time playing games, and specifically Rockstar games. I've found that journalists and previewers and generally people who talk about games make them out to be much bigger than they actually are. When I hear it takes a long time to traverse the map, I expect it to take about half as long as they might say.  Mostly this comes from GTA v. I was an avid viewer of CVG's GTAVo'Clock, and they made the map out to be huge. And, I'm not saying it wasn't, but I never felt it took that long to navigate.

 

I still think the world will be big, and take a long time. I just think it's a case of being 'blown away' by the scope and scale of the game, so naturally make it out to be bigger than it might actually be. Of which I am/would be guilty of too 

[LeonVegaSuarez]

I remember riding from Escalera to Blackwater in RDR1 to see how long it took but I don't remember the exact time. Anyone remember or know?

 

An hour to cross the full RDR2 diagonally would be a massive map.

[Jabalous]

13 minutes ago, ivarblaauw said:

Even if the scale is upped 2x in comparison with RDR1, a ride from Escalera to Van Horn takes about 1 hour-1.5 hours (depending on the horse). 

 

Not upscaled it takes about 25-35 minutes. 

 

To me an upped 2x is the ultimate size. Rides are long, but not boringly long. 

 

Previewers said that a ride from St. Denis to Valentine took a really, really long time. Imo that sounds like it is around 25-30 minutes instead of 10-12 minutes if it was rdr1 scale. 

 

*+ a 2x scaled map would finally make trains a legit transportation mode

True, and I think that would be a fine balance between realism and fun. However, there's a risk in that a percentage of players will grow frustrated at the traveling distances. But hey, they have fast travel, and as you said, trains which can now serve as a meaningful transportation tool, giving the illusion of an adventure and an expansive and overwhelming world where you have to plan your trips. 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Jabalous

[BretMaverick777]

2 hours ago, LordMasterJT said:

 

I agree that this seems most likely based on what we know and in just looking at the structure of the states, but I don't see how it's a definite at this point, and wouldn't be very surprised if Cumberland turns out to be all- or part- Ambarino-territory. Ah well.   

Could be. 

If so, it would likely make NH and Ambarino "light" on regions with only 2 (known) ones each.  All other states have at least 3. 

[Fido_le_muet]

7 minutes ago, LeonVegaSuarez said:

I remember riding from Escalera to Blackwater in RDR1 to see how long it took but I don't remember the exact time. Anyone remember or know?

 

An hour to cross the full RDR2 diagonally would be a massive map.

It took about 8 minutes. 

Should take maybe 20 minutes to go from Escalera to Van Horn. 

[gonnaenodaethat]

9 minutes ago, Fido_le_muet said:

It took about 8 minutes. 

Should take maybe 20 minutes to go from Escalera to Van Horn. 

 

All hail his holiness the master mapper!

 

,,,,But are you really a true man of the cloth?

 

Edited October 6, 2018 by gonnaenodaethat

[BretMaverick777]

2 hours ago, TexasOdysseus said:

 

Also, do we have ANY clue on the Sisika Penitentiary? That island is siting there taunting me at this point. 

Well...there are convicts, escaped and otherwise. There are chain gangs.  So they're being penned SOMEwhere.  Whether or not it's Sisika, whether or not that's the be-all end-all of prisons, like Bolingbroke,  I dunno.

 

But I'm still considering there's clues that it's actually an Indian reservation, not a working prison.  Around that era, the US used to ship Indian "hostiles" to POW camps in Florida, far east of their tribal homes.  And Sisika is the name for the Blackfoot tribe of Montana.  So Sisika Island might be a rez. 

[Chinese Takeout]

My take on the "How long will it take to traverse the map" issue:

 

 

Just kidding! But, not really kidding. Here's my serious answer. You know how long it takes me to ride/walk/drive across a Rockstar World? No clue. Because their worlds are so well made that I never make it across the world without being distracted by a million different amazing things. How long did it take to traverse the FUEL map? A long, long, long sh*tty time.

I only care about scaling (in this thread) insofar as how much it affects mapping the world, PARTICULARLY when joining the RDR1 map to the new areas.

Every day we get 3 NEW ACCOUNTS in here asking, "so, guys, have we come to a consensus on how much BIGGER RDR2 is than GTA5/RDR1?" (so they can take that info back to their clickbait site/youtube channel with a big, huge clickbait title...as if those of us mapping are even remotely concerned about that. All we care about is where the f*ck is that one bridge at?!?!?! Haha

[INFERNO E100]

30 minutes ago, ivarblaauw said:

Even if the scale is upped 2x in comparison with RDR1, a ride from Escalera to Van Horn takes about 1 hour-1.5 hours (depending on the horse). 

 

Not upscaled it takes about 25-35 minutes. 

 

To me an upped 2x is the ultimate size. Rides are long, but not boringly long. 

 

Previewers said that a ride from St. Denis to Valentine took a really, really long time. Imo that sounds like it is around 25-30 minutes instead of 10-12 minutes if it was rdr1 scale. 

 

*+ a 2x scaled map would finally make trains a legit transportation mode

dont be silly

 

it's 20 mins MAX

 

comparable to super fast cycling the length of GTAV

[gonnaenodaethat]

4 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

Well...there are convicts, escaped and otherwise. There are chain gangs.  So they're being penned SOMEwhere.  Whether or not it's Sisika, whether or not that's the be-all end-all of prisons, like Bolingbroke,  I dunno.

 

But I'm still considering there's clues that it's actually an Indian reservation, not a working prison.  Around that era, the US used to ship Indian "hostiles" to POW camps in Florida, far east of their tribal homes.  And Sisika is the name for the Blackfoot tribe of Montana.  So Sisika Island might be a rez. 

 

Ye didnae stay strong

Ye didnae stay whae me

 

Ma right tae reserve judgement

Ma right tae tak' thi faw

 

Ma beautiful dream died in the snaw

 

[Chinese Takeout]

7 minutes ago, gonnaenodaethat said:

 

Ye didnae stay strong

Ye didnae stay whae me

 

Ma right tae reserve judgement

Ma right tae tak' thi faw

 

Ma beautiful dream died in the snaw

 

@gonnaenodaethat, you are a giant among men, with a poet's heart and an angel's voice. I drink to your coffin: may it be made from the wood of a 100-year-old oak that I shall plant tomorrow. <drinks>

[DuPz0r]

My Town mapping friend Treefitty over at iRedDead.com found an interesting discovery i thought i'd share with you guys.

 

That red building in the flowery fields is infact just North West of Rhodes.

 

 

And in St Denis he found a Street name by cutting frames together.

Edited October 7, 2018 by DuPz0r

[BretMaverick777]

23 minutes ago, DuPz0r said:

My Town mapping friend Treefitty over at iRedDead.com found an interesting discovery i thought i'd share with you guys.

 

That red building in the flowery fields is infact just North West of Rhodes.

 

 

And in St Denis he found a Street name by cutting frames together.

Nice work.

That's a grain elevator....I suspected awhile back it belonged to a farm near Rhodes.   There's something painted on the side of it....looks like a white crescent moon in a blue circle. 

 

"Courtenay Street"....I didn't think to look for names tiled into the sidewalk.   There's got to be more instances in St. Denis.

Also, I'm still hoping that whoever did that magic trick with Photoshop to read FONTANA THEATRE on the St. Denis postcard could do the same with the streetcar.   There's two more streets listed on the side of it that I can't decipher.

[TexasOdysseus]

4 hours ago, LeonVegaSuarez said:

I remember riding from Escalera to Blackwater in RDR1 to see how long it took but I don't remember the exact time. Anyone remember or know?

 

An hour to cross the full RDR2 diagonally would be a massive map.

I'll do this ASAP and report back.

[TexasOdysseus]

Courtenay Street? Hmmm....while that sounds like it could be a NOLA street, that's actually an English name. I suppose that relates to our protagonist Cornwall and the other British influences in many naming conventions in this game. 

 

Man, the storyboarding for this thing had to be fun to do. I can't wait to delve into it. 

[Pink Pineapple]

8 hours ago, Len Lfc said:

Off topic now, but I just looked. I still have the achievement list screenshot saved. Dated Friday 23rd August, 2013.

 

 

The icon leaked on August 16, 2013.

 

[Chinese Takeout]

3 hours ago, DuPz0r said:

My Town mapping friend Treefitty over at iRedDead.com found an interesting discovery i thought i'd share with you guys.

 

That red building in the flowery fields is infact just North West of Rhodes.

 

 

Oh snap, I knew I forgot to post something...

4K, and stuff.

(Someday I'm going to make a compilation of "THAT GODDAMNED TREE" that shows up in every shot, that we can't place (just to the right of the grainery).

Edited October 7, 2018 by Chinese Takeout

[retrogamer397]

Do you guys know when Red Dead II's complete strategy guides would be printed? It should be around that time when the final map leaks.

[BretMaverick777]

11 hours ago, koeklin said:

A river, a cove, a bridge, a mount:

 

....Which waterfall?   Are you talking about Cumberland Falls?   I get the placement of "Jimmy's Fingers," and the Dakota River trestle bridge, but I'm not sure which "waterfall" you're advertising? 

[BretMaverick777]

6 hours ago, gonnaenodaethat said:

 

Ye didnae stay strong

Ye didnae stay whae me

 

Ma right tae reserve judgement

Ma right tae tak' thi faw

 

Ma beautiful dream died in the snaw

 

I wish I could help you, my enigmatic Scottish friend, but if you're trying to make rhyme or reason of this map, you'll need a much better view of it.   The best I can offer you is that it's a stylized topo map with elevations marked in black, and depths (water) marked in brown.   This might show Flat Iron Lake or even the Lannahechee in the brown areas (depths), and cliffs/mountains in the black areas.   Otherwise, the only thing I can see in that map is that the grid seems to run 1-31 latitude, A through O longitude.   Best I can offer, don't know if it helps anything.

Edited October 7, 2018 by BretMaverick777

[koeklin]

14 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

....Which waterfall?   Are you talking about Cumberland Falls?   I get the placement of "Jimmy's Fingers," and the Dakota River trestle bridge, but I'm not sure which "waterfall" you're advertising? 

I should have written ’towards Cumberland falls’

[Cutter De Blanc]

5 hours ago, BretMaverick777 said:

"Courtenay Street"....I didn't think to look for names tiled into the sidewalk.   There's got to be more instances in St. Denis.

Also, I'm still hoping that whoever did that magic trick with Photoshop to read FONTANA THEATRE on the St. Denis postcard could do the same with the streetcar.   There's two more streets listed on the side of it that I can't decipher.

Dollars to doughnuts one of the street names on that tram is Victory St., it's one of the only street names you can make out on the Saint Denis map, and that street (as far as I can tell) has the Spaldings on it. I'm guessing it's Victory St. and whatever the cross street the Tram is turning onto is.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Cutter De Blanc