Mapping Red Dead Redemption 2! Landmark Analysis Thread

[Len Lfc]

28 minutes ago, DuPz0r said:

Hmm, that's interesting. So they pause the game and see fog, but when they made it to Saint Denis, it was in the South East part of the map.  If RDR1's map was in the game, that would make St Denis East of the map, not South East...

I'd argue it still is south east. It may not be the southeastern most point, but in terms of the land on the map, if somebody asked be where it was, I'd say it was south east. We also have to be careful of what they meant vs how they word it. 

[Tonesta]

5 minutes ago, Len Lfc said:

I'd argue it still is south east. It may not be the southeastern most point, but in terms of the land on the map, if somebody asked be where it was, I'd say it was south east. We also have to be careful of what they meant vs how they word it. 

Agreed.

 

It ties in with the theory that the Lannahechee river is the boundary of the game in the southeastern quadrant. Then, if you are sitting in St Denis, there is no more playable land to the South-East of you so you're in the SouthEast of the map. It doesn't mean that there's nothing else further south across the other side of the map.

 

Arizona & New Mexico are commonly described as the Southwest - but they are nowhere near the southernmost part of the continental US; both Texas and Florida dip much further south.

[INFERNO E100]

50 minutes ago, DuPz0r said:

 

Hmm, that's interesting. So they pause the game and see fog, but when they made it to Saint Denis, it was in the South East part of the map.  If RDR1's map was in the game, that would make St Denis East of the map, not South East...

 

because its hidden and doesn't appear until later in the game

[AzBat360]

40 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

Man, I'll tell you what...these trains, and bridges, and angles, and FOV, and "Musical Mountains" are giving me a HEADACHE! haha

 

Look below...If Train A leaves the station traveling East at 40kph...just kidding...look at Train A and Train B...the same mountain is in the background of each shot (do we have a name for that one yet? Is that Pyramid??). We know we are seeing that mountain from the same angle, different distances. And the train...in each shot...is moving from the left of the mountain to the right, or from WEST to EAST. Correct? They're BOTH on bridges/trestles going over water. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? Is Train A going clockwise around the track circuit, and Train B is going counter-clockwise (as I have illustrated)?The places I marked seem to be the ONLY places on the Leaked Map where the tracks run in that direction IN RELATION to Pyramid Mtn (or whatever its name is).

Furthermore, There's that shot straight up from Blackwater where we can see "Pyramid" and Hagen (which is really weird), and then, we can see Pyramid and (is that Nekoti outlined in black?) in the distance to the SW from Bacchus Bridge. In a very messy and confusing way, this seems to triangulate the Train B bridge to the general vicinity of where I've marked it (which I think a lot of us already suspect is its location). By the way...I think the "tilted map" I made makes this work better...pay attention to the red arrow going Southwest...on the tilted map it point more directly toward Pyramid and Nekoti. 

Great work as always. I'm finally coming around to your location of the tall metal bridge. Except I'm having a hard time placing the bridge in the Horseshoe bend & towering rocks images. Maybe the bridge behind Jimmy in that shot is not the same bridge at the mouth of the Dakota? Time to go back & look at them all again...

[Chinese Takeout]

2 minutes ago, AzBat360 said:

Great work as always. I'm finally coming around to your location of the tall metal bridge. Except I'm having a hard time placing the bridge in the Horseshoe bend & towering rocks images. Maybe the bridge behind Jimmy in that shot is not the same bridge at the mouth of the Dakota? Time to go back & look at them all again...

Yeah, seriously!

 

 

[Se7en-Rus]

5 hours ago, BretMaverick777 said:

I swear, some of y'all are spending a ton of imaginary development money on Rockstar putting together a crack team of programmers developing wide expanses of unplayable land behind glass and immensely creative ways to keep players out of those spaces

Yet that’s exactly what happened with RDR1.

[DuPz0r]

Edited October 5, 2018 by DuPz0r

[SneakyDeaky]

11 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

Yeah, seriously!

 

 

Ok, so which bridge is this?



 

[AzBat360]

3 minutes ago, SneakyDeaky said:

Ok, so which bridge is this?



 

Wouldn't be a railroad bridge. Some kind of trail to access the other side of the peninsula.

[SneakyDeaky]

Just now, AzBat360 said:

Wouldn't be a railroad bridge. Some kind of trail to access the other side of the peninsula.

Yeah I don't think it's anything to do with the current bridge dilemma but I don't think we've seen a shot of it? Something like this??

[Chinese Takeout]

8 minutes ago, SneakyDeaky said:

Ok, so which bridge is this?

IDK if it's my mind playing tricks on me, but I definitely feel like there is a disparity between the RR Tracks as they are represented on the Leaked Map and in the more recent footage. Somebody needs to accumulate EVERY image we have of choo-choo trains and tracks and come up with some definitive proof of tracks existing in a place OTHER than what we see on the Leaked Map.

 

That being said...it's possible that that isn't a set of tracks there...a train would have to make a hell of a U-turn when it got to the corner at the bend in the river.

[ivarblaauw]

Guys!!!

 

I just had a conversation with someone who played the game this week. 

 

(From Xbox One NL)

 

All previewers were LIMITED to the locations R* wanted them to see. The didn't get full freedom to play! They weren't able to explore the full map, even if they wanted too.

Edited October 5, 2018 by ivarblaauw

[Life Hack]

1 minute ago, ivarblaauw said:

Guys!!!

 

I just had a conversation with someone who played the game this week. 

 

(From Xbox One NL)

 

All reviewers were LIMITED to the locations R* wanted them to see. The didn't get full freedom to play! They weren't able to explore the full map.

That seems about right. It wouldn’t make sense to let them explore everything. That’s what I would try to do if I was playing. I’d try to get to New Austin.  

[ivarblaauw]

Also they were forced to first play the 3+ hour tutorial in which you can't strive to far from your camp. 

They also evade any other map related question, as if they will be killed if they answer

[DuPz0r]

And i'm guessing after the first mission you have no way to travel back near Blackwater and beyond because of the heat of the law.

[Chinese Takeout]

11 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

IDK if it's my mind playing tricks on me, but I definitely feel like there is a disparity between the RR Tracks as they are represented on the Leaked Map and in the more recent footage. Somebody needs to accumulate EVERY image we have of choo-choo trains and tracks and come up with some definitive proof of tracks existing in a place OTHER than what we see on the Leaked Map.

Speaking of which...did anyone ever figure out where this is?

 

 

[Pudgehodge]

1 hour ago, Chinese Takeout said:

Man, I'll tell you what...these trains, and bridges, and angles, and FOV, and "Musical Mountains" are giving me a HEADACHE! haha

 

Look below...If Train A leaves the station traveling East at 40kph...just kidding...look at Train A and Train B...the same mountain is in the background of each shot (do we have a name for that one yet? Is that Pyramid??). We know we are seeing that mountain from the same angle, different distances. And the train...in each shot...is moving from the left of the mountain to the right, or from WEST to EAST. Correct? They're BOTH on bridges/trestles going over water. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? Is Train A going clockwise around the track circuit, and Train B is going counter-clockwise (as I have illustrated)?The places I marked seem to be the ONLY places on the Leaked Map where the tracks run in that direction IN RELATION to Pyramid Mtn (or whatever its name is).

Furthermore, There's that shot straight up from Blackwater where we can see "Pyramid" and Hagen (which is really weird), and then, we can see Pyramid and (is that Nekoti outlined in black?) in the distance to the SW from Bacchus Bridge. In a very messy and confusing way, this seems to triangulate the Train B bridge to the general vicinity of where I've marked it (which I think a lot of us already suspect is its location). By the way...I think the "tilted map" I made makes this work better...pay attention to the red arrow going Southwest...on the tilted map it point more directly toward Pyramid and Nekoti. 

 

 

Embiggened Images:

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You're doing good work, these trains are definitely tough, and the mountains can make things a bit confusing. I think there are A LOT of train bridges, particularly in The Grizzlies and Big Valley, as we already have seen around 5 or more different train bridges.. but the possibilities for trains crossing rivers or creeks definitely narrows things down, and thankfully in all 3 bridges you're analyzing there is water flowing underneath. I agree with your placement of all 3 bridges, though there are of course still questions to be answered to be 100% sure.

 

As for Hagen and it's sharp peaks, we know they are more or less a "line" or "row" of peaks.. and the "line" seems to run at a north/ northwest angle judging from most images we've seen (you can see the line of peaks pretty clearly going left to right in multiple Valentine images looking northwest), but the further west you go, the individual peaks start to get closer, and eventually start to hide behind eachother (like in the Little Creek/ Big Valley mountains image where Hagen is in the background but the line of peaks are more or less aligned so you can only see a couple of the peaks). For the Blackwater shot, I originally thought the mountains look strange (partially due to the fact that they aren't at all the same/ aren't visible from that angle in RDR), but the angle of Hagen was confusing me. Though it does make some sense, because Blackwater is actually further east than the Little Creek image, so the individual peaks would be showing a big more (if that makes sense).

 

That mountain you've drawn out with multiple colours definitely seems to be the most puzzling (is that the valley view mountain?). It's very strange that it appears the same from so many different angles. Here's an important question, do we know if trains only travel in a certain direction? Is it possible that trains might travel in different directions in different parts of the map, or even at different parts of the game? .. but besides that, the mountain still could make some sense. All of the angles still view it from an eastern angle, though the angle is definitely noticeably different (let me know if I got any of the 3 perspectives wrong/ misunderstood your speculation):

 

It also might be possible that the mountain (pyramid?) could have similar looking shape as you circle around it, due to some similar looking rock faces and it's somewhat symmetrical shape? Or there's the possibility that we might be mistaking certain mountains in some images due to the similarities in some nearby mountains? 

 

Whatever the case, your analysis looks pretty solid. Again, let me know if I misunderstood anything in your analysis. I'm going to look deeper into these images too.

[Chinese Takeout]

12 minutes ago, ivarblaauw said:

Guys!!!

 

I just had a conversation with someone who played the game this week. 

 

(From Xbox One NL)

 

All previewers were LIMITED to the locations R* wanted them to see. The didn't get full freedom to play! They weren't able to explore the full map, even if they wanted too.

That's excellent confirmation, Ivar. I said the same thing when people started citing the "they said they could go anywhere, and nobody saw NA or sweeping deserts, so....herpity derp!" And I said, I'm sure they THOUGHT they could go anywhere...Rockstar may have even said the words "you can go anywhere..." but that doesn't mean it's true. A controlled demo is...controlled. 

[Pudgehodge]

28 minutes ago, SneakyDeaky said:

Ok, so which bridge is this?



 

Whichever bridge it is, it doesn't appear to be a train bridge, but most likely a bridge for horses/ carriages and foot traffic.

[Len Lfc]

7 minutes ago, DuPz0r said:

And i'm guessing after the first mission you have no way to travel back near Blackwater and beyond because of the heat of the law.

Similar to San Andreas.

[Macabree]

2 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

That's excellent confirmation, Ivar. I said the same thing when people started citing the "they said they could go anywhere, and nobody saw NA or sweeping deserts, so....herpity derp!" And I said, I'm sure they THOUGHT they could go anywhere...Rockstar may have even said the words "you can go anywhere..." but that doesn't mean it's true. A controlled demo is...controlled. 

I always read that quote as "you can go anywhere you see (once you get the full game)"

[SneakyDeaky]

1 minute ago, Chinese Takeout said:

IDK if it's my mind playing tricks on me, but I definitely feel like there is a disparity between the RR Tracks as they are represented on the Leaked Map and in the more recent footage. Somebody needs to accumulate EVERY image we have of choo-choo trains and tracks and come up with some definitive proof of tracks existing in a place OTHER than what we see on the Leaked Map.

 

That being said...it's possible that that isn't a set of tracks there...a train would have to make a hell of a U-turn when it got to the corner at the bend in the river.

ok regarding tracks, where could this be?




Regarding foot bridges, doesn't it seem like there's one marked here? But I can't see it in the pano lol

12 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

Speaking of which...did anyone ever figure out where this is?

 

 

Sorry I missed this post where you asked the same question...

[Se7en-Rus]

9 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

Speaking of which...did anyone ever figure out where this is?

Isn’t that the chase scene after Valentine bank heist from the May previews? There’re train tracks not far from the town.

[ivarblaauw]

23 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

That's excellent confirmation, Ivar. I said the same thing when people started citing the "they said they could go anywhere, and nobody saw NA or sweeping deserts, so....herpity derp!" And I said, I'm sure they THOUGHT they could go anywhere...Rockstar may have even said the words "you can go anywhere..." but that doesn't mean it's true. A controlled demo is...controlled. 

Yeah he literally mentions that he was only 'allowed' to see a small part of the game, but even that small part felt very huge, free and alive/real.

 

And again: they aren't allowed to talk about the map at all, except the locations which (for some reason... xD) all the previewers see. -> Valentine, Blackwater and St. Denis.

 

The gameplay of 2 and 6 hours was heavily controlled. (Which is logical)

Edited October 5, 2018 by ivarblaauw

[primethief147]

21 minutes ago, ivarblaauw said:

Guys!!!

 

I just had a conversation with someone who played the game this week. 

 

(From Xbox One NL)

 

All previewers were LIMITED to the locations R* wanted them to see. The didn't get full freedom to play! They weren't able to explore the full map, even if they wanted too.

I hate to be Mr Negative but is their any way you can provide some sort of prof that this is real, because this smells like a ,"don't worry my dad works at  ___________. "situation.

[Chinese Takeout]

5 minutes ago, Pudgehodge said:

Here's an important question, do we know if trains only travel in a certain direction? Is it possible that trains might travel in different directions in different parts of the map, or even at different parts of the game?

 

Whatever the case, your analysis looks pretty solid. Again, let me know if I misunderstood anything in your analysis. I'm going to look deeper into these images too.

No, I think you read what I was trying to say pretty well. I'm surprised you understood it at all, cuz I was pretty...

 

But, as far as the trains direction of travel...I'm not sure HOW they could go in different directions on the SAME set of tracks. All trains traveled in the same direction in RDR1. One thing I saw/heard more than one outlet talk about after the hands-on preview was that they were told by Rockstar that the trains run on a very specific and tight schedule, just like IRL. So, if there are multiple ENGINES running around the RDR2 world (which I'm sure there are), R* could certainly hard code a schedule that keeps them from having head-on collisions. BUT...if we have the ability to hijack and control the trains...would it be a problem to the game design if we started causing massive collisions? I don't know....now I'm getting into 100% pure speculation.

 

But, TL;DR: yes, I really want to know how the trains work, and how the map is designed around how they work.

[SneakyDeaky]

18 minutes ago, DuPz0r said:

And i'm guessing after the first mission you have no way to travel back near Blackwater and beyond because of the heat of the law.

I have doubts about that. I haven't read the new previews but my guess is the Blackwater heist that starts the game involves a boat, yet we've seen a lot of shots of Blackwater, and a few from cutscenes, including one of Arthur tacking some guy. Why model all of Blackwater for one mission that potentially could take place on the lake or the river? We've scene potential shots of Tall Trees too, though I'm not sure about those.

[ivarblaauw]

4 minutes ago, primethief147 said:

I hate to be Mr Negative but is their any way you can provide some sort of prof that this is real, because this smells like a ,"don't worry my dad works at  ___________. "situation.

I asked it in the thread of RDR Preview of the facebook group of Xbox One Nederland. Everyone who joined can see and read it.

 

The previewer (called Maurice W.) answered me directly in the thread.

 

Any other fellow dutch/belgian gamer can vouch for me xD

 

link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/xboxonenederland/permalink/937064946477915/

Edited October 5, 2018 by ivarblaauw

[Riverstone]

Do people think R* will reveal the full map before release or not. If so how late will they leave the reveal ?

[SneakyDeaky]

Maybe our boah zachsterosu could weigh in on all this? He has a wealth of knowledge about trains.