Mapping Red Dead Redemption 2! Landmark Analysis Thread

[Nutduster]

23 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

Did you read the article?  Maybe you should read the article.    The guy described trying to cross Flat Iron Lake on his horse, and that didn't go too well, so he swam over to a guy in a canoe, because the lake is apparently full of boats and ships both big and small.  After stealing the canoe, he admits the victim of the theft must have gotten to another boat or to higher ground because he shot holes in the reviewer's stolen canoe and drowned him.  Or, he thinks it could have gotten chopped up by larger craft like "paddlewheelers" (sic).  In any event, the article neither suggested nor tried to suggest that there was some kind of invisible wall mechanic that was trying to keep him from crossing the lake or otherwise steer clear of certain areas, like the land directly south of the lake.  

 

 

Yes, I read the article, you condescending ass.  He didn't "admit" anything, he speculated it because he didn't understand why his boat sank.  Here is the EXACT quote:
 

Quote

 

I'm still not exactly sure what happened, but my canoe sank about halfway across the lake. It actually reminded me of what happens when you take a boat too far out on the water in GTA V, minus the sharks. The water itself was pretty busy — there were a lot of paddlesteamers and other large watercraft making their way through the centre channel — so my guess is either the guy I stole the boat from shot at me and I missed it, or canoes are not sturdy enough to cross heavily-trafficked waters.

 

 

His speculation is interesting, but for some reason it doesn't even seem to occur to him that what might have happened was the obvious thing: it IS the GTA V mechanic, just transported from San Andreas's infinite ocean to a huge lake with unplayable land on the other shore.  And my whole point was that I think the writer may have misinterpreted what happened.  He seems bewildered and doesn't have a good explanation (a shot fired that he didn't hear or see? choppy lake water just swamped him, maybe?), so I am interpreting his description of the events myself and am offering an alternative one.  Which is backed up by the fact that so far we have not one iota of good evidence of playable space south of that lake - not the leaked map, not any of the trailers or screenshots or previews, nothing; the only thing we have is a hi-res picture that shows there is in fact land of some kind there.

You disagree with me?  Fine.  I'm aware you think the game world is the entire continental United States, all of Canada and Mexico, and probably the moon too.  But don't act like I misinterpreted what the writer said.  As far as I'm concerned, his description of how it unfolded is more useful than his guess which he himself says is not based on anything in particular other than trying to add a post hoc explanation.

 

Canoes sink if you try to cross large bodies of water? Arthur AND his horse will drown if you swim too long?  Do these sound like good gameplay mechanics, or more like ways to hem us in using something other than infinite oceans and impossible cliffs?  They want the world to feel natural (which RDR already did a fantastic job with); this is possibly a way to accomplish it while still having borders around the play area.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Nutduster

[bakerach]

[BretMaverick777]

11 minutes ago, Nutduster said:

 

Yes, I read the article, you condescending ass.  He didn't "admit" anything, he speculated it because he didn't understand why his boat sank.  Here is the EXACT quote:
 

 

His speculation is interesting, but for some reason it doesn't even seem to occur to him that what might have happened was the obvious thing: it IS the GTA V mechanic, just transported from San Andreas's infinite ocean to a huge lake with unplayable land on the other shore.  And my whole point was that I think the writer may have misinterpreted what happened.  He seems bewildered and doesn't have a good explanation (a shot fired that he didn't hear or see? choppy lake water just swamped him, maybe?), so I am interpreting his description of the events myself and am offering an alternative one.  Which is backed up by the fact that so far we have not one iota of good evidence of playable space south of that lake - not the leaked map, not any of the trailers or screenshots or previews, nothing; the only thing we have is a hi-res picture that shows there is in fact land of some kind there.

You disagree with me?  Fine.  I'm aware you think the game world is the entire continental United States, all of Canada and Mexico, and probably the moon too.  But don't act like I misinterpreted what the writer said.  As far as I'm concerned, his description of how it unfolded is more useful than his guess which he himself says is not based on anything in particular other than trying to add a post hoc explanation.

 

Canoes sink if you try to cross large bodies of water? Arthur AND his horse will drown if you swim too long?  Do these sound like good gameplay mechanics, or more like ways to hem us in using something other than infinite oceans and impossible cliffs?  They want the world to feel natural (which RDR already did a fantastic job with); this is possibly a way to accomplish it while still having borders around the play area.

The first RDR2 Youtube video I'm going to post:   I'm getting in a canoe at Clemens Cove and rowing all the way across Flat Iron Lake to Blackwater, unmolested.  When I get out and stand on the wharf, imma make Arthur moon you, @Nutduster

Edited October 5, 2018 by BretMaverick777

[Chinese Takeout]

5 hours ago, DuPz0r said:

Look at the path going down the cliff to the waterside on that top image.

 

Spoiler

 

Now look at the leaked map. There is that looks like the same path just after the "G?????t Pass".

 

As well as the things you pointed out, this seems like the right location, i'm not sure though. Bacchus Bridge is a good match still.

 

I'm not sure about the canoe shot now though. I still have some doubts. If that location is the same as the bear & wolves? then the bridge over the waterfall doesn't look like it matches the one in the distance on the railroad shot. And that rock you highlighted orange doesn't look like the same rock.

 

Spoiler

 

So that means we have miss-placed the Beartooth Beck once again... Or the bridge locations is wrong. And looking at this new evidence, i'm torn between the two...

 

Okay, i went back and had a look. I don't like using this leaked map, i know parts of it are wrong now, and it gives me a headache, but i dunno, it's our only alternative point of reference other than the images.

How about this:

Yeah, I misread one of Pudgehodge's earlier posts where he said something like "there's no way that can be Bacchus Bridge," so I spent my time trying to shoehorn that shot together with the canoe shot by what may or may not be Beartooth Beck. Then I went back and re-read his post. Turns out he was talking about something else. D'oh! Anyway, I think the handcart scene fits Bacchus WAAAAAYYYYY more than the "BB" area. I never really thought it fit the BB area...I was just trying to make it fit, which I hate doing.

 

As for the areas you highlighted above, I think that fits pretty well. The only issue I have with it is that in the handcart clip, in the minimap, we can very distinctly see them crossing over a body of water that is perpendicular to their direction of travel, where they are traveling roughly SE>>NW and the water is flowing roughly NE>>SW, and this is happening at the moment they are about to cross over it. IDK, I'm still fuzzy on this one's location. 

 

 

The water below them being the Dakota River and the bridge being Bacchus Bridge fits that criteria...the only thing that's messing me up is the position of the mountains in the distance...they don't see to line up. I'll tell you what, tho...if you take the minimap and align it with the leaked map...and if the dotted line serves to delineate REGIONS (as they did in RDR1, and as I believe they do in RDR2) - in this case Cumberland Forest from The Grizzlies - it sure seems to line up...

(at this point, it doesn't need to fit like a jigsaw puzzle piece, because of the changes we've seen between the leaked map and recent footage...it just has to be somewhat close to be reasonably sound)...

[Nutduster]

9 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

The first RDR2 Youtube video I'm going to post:   I'm getting in a canoe at Clemens Cove and rowing all the way across Flat Iron Lake to Blackwater, unmolested.  When I get out and stand on the wharf, imma make Arthur moon you, @Nutduster

 

Blackwater? Who is talking about Blackwater? Clemens Cove is on the east shore and Blackwater on the west.  Moon me if you can stand on the southern shore, chief.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Nutduster

[Chinese Takeout]

32 minutes ago, hitsch said:

(I can‘t see what I wrote above... can you? therefor again my point)

 

I‘m more conviced, that this is bacchus bridge.

when you take a look at the minimap, you can see that you‘re crossing a quite large river. that seems to me more like dakota river then a small sidebrench.

(compared to the minimap on the canoe-shot, which is on dakota fore sure).

 

by the way, the work of you guys just blows me away. thanks.

Poor @hitsch, haha! having trouble with this text editor, ain'tcha?

I'm just glad you're here participating. Good points, and I agree.

[Chinese Takeout]

What about this shot, fellas?

 

3 phases of the gif: 1. untouched, 2. levels adjusted, 3. emphasized the two ridgelines in the distance...

 

Where the heck is he looking that he sees ridglines that high up in the sky? I feel like he's looking Southwest over either Roanoke Ridge, The Heartlands, or Scarlett Meadows, but idk...I can't get it to click in my mind. Also...WTF IS UP WITH THAT RIDGELINE?! haha. If it's the ridges from the "Sweeping Deserts" of Nuevo Paraiso...they seem a lot higher and closer in this shot than they should be. ????

 

Keep in mind this is 4K, so open in new tab and "Zoom in...Enhance."

 

P.S.

Spoiler

Are those f*ckING CICADAS flying around by Arthur and his horse?!?!

 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Chinese Takeout

[AzBat360]

56 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

the only thing that's messing me up is the position of the mountains in the distance...they don't see to line up.

I don't see a problem with them. I think you might be getting hung up North reference on the leaked map. I'm started to think it was fixed like we originally thought.

2 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

What about this shot, fellas?

 

3 phases of the gif: 1. untouched, 2. levels adjusted, 3. emphasized the two ridgelines in the distance...

 

Where the heck is he looking that he sees ridglines that high up in the sky? I feel like he's looking Southwest over either Roanoke Ridge, The Heartlands, or Scarlett Meadows, but idk...I can't get it to click in my mind. Also...WTF IS UP WITH THAT RIDGELINE?! haha. If it's the ridges from the "Sweeping Deserts" of Nuevo Paraiso...they seem a lot higher and closer in this shot than they should be. ????

 

Keep in mind this is 4K, so open in new tab and "Zoom in...Enhance."

Look at the red flowers & the rock in the bottom left. It's the bottom right of the Brandywine Drop pano. The shot is looking West.

Edited October 5, 2018 by AzBat360

[SneakyDeaky]

8 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

What about this shot, fellas?

 

3 phases of the gif: 1. untouched, 2. levels adjusted, 3. emphasized the two ridgelines in the distance...

 

Where the heck is he looking that he sees ridglines that high up in the sky? I feel like he's looking Southwest over either Roanoke Ridge, The Heartlands, or Scarlett Meadows, but idk...I can't get it to click in my mind. Also...WTF IS UP WITH THAT RIDGELINE?! haha. If it's the ridges from the "Sweeping Deserts" of Nuevo Paraiso...they seem a lot higher and closer in this shot than they should be. ????

 

Keep in mind this is 4K, so open in new tab and "Zoom in...Enhance."

This shot blows my mind. What the hell are those mountains in the background that are so high up? We've never seen another shot like this have we? I think we're at Brandywine drop because in one frame of this shot you can see water to the left of Arthur, but I just don't know yet. Maybe the water is by Butcher Creek


 

[Len Lfc]

23 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

What about this shot, fellas?

 

3 phases of the gif: 1. untouched, 2. levels adjusted, 3. emphasized the two ridgelines in the distance...

 

Where the heck is he looking that he sees ridglines that high up in the sky? I feel like he's looking Southwest over either Roanoke Ridge, The Heartlands, or Scarlett Meadows, but idk...I can't get it to click in my mind. Also...WTF IS UP WITH THAT RIDGELINE?! haha. If it's the ridges from the "Sweeping Deserts" of Nuevo Paraiso...they seem a lot higher and closer in this shot than they should be. ????

 

Keep in mind this is 4K, so open in new tab and "Zoom in...Enhance."

 

P.S.

  Hide contents

Are those f*ckING CICADAS flying around by Arthur and his horse?!?!

 

 

If you zoom in 9x flip it 90 degrees along the Y axis, and look at the patterns of the shadows, you can just about make out that we haven't got a clue what's going on 

[Chinese Takeout]

22 minutes ago, AzBat360 said:

Look at the red flowers & the rock in the bottom left. It's the bottom right of the Brandywine Drop pano. The shot is looking West.

YEP!!

Check out this pano from last week...look at the yellow line extending up from "SW"... to the right of the line you can clearly see a square-ish settlement with a few buildings, and to the left of the line, higher up, you can see a barn and other buildings...both of which you can see in the shot I just posted today. Excellent! But, what are the two different vantage points...SPECIFICALLY?

 

https://roundme.com/tour/314089/view/1025282/

 

[nubcaker]

13 hours ago, cremefraiche said:

Haha I don't know! Maybe the map actually has some curvature like the earth in real life? 

 

But what I've gathered is that:

1. You can enter the mountain and doing so, or at least going in to those structures, will be a surprise as to where you end up

2. these riddles are somehow connected to the tumbleweed thread - tbh I haven't sat through the linked vids because I feel I'll just miss a clue or follow a red herring

3. the mods backed this guy in the Usher Hall thread so he's got some pretty solid info clearly

4. there's apparently some odd looking markings on the special/ultimate editions map that I can't see but are also linked to the structures on the mountains.  He said to look out for straight lines but the only ones I can see are the grid lines.

5. he mentioned that with the cat outta the bag that the old map is back we should pay attention to what he's said previously about how the game ends "Shift a few assets around and...kerching!"

6. He also said something to the effect of "one wee nugget of information will get this snow ball rolling"

 

And this is apparently directly pertinent to the map and something we're all still missing

 

Hmm.. anyone? 

Who is this guy and why are we to trust him?

[SneakyDeaky]

1 hour ago, Chinese Takeout said:

What about this shot, fellas?

 

I'm sure you guys noticed the same barns and road near the water in both shots.



What if it was something simple (yeah right) like this?


My X is not exact just a guess.

[DuPz0r]

1 hour ago, SneakyDeaky said:

This shot blows my mind. What the hell are those mountains in the background that are so high up? We've never seen another shot like this have we? I think we're at Brandywine drop because in one frame of this shot you can see water to the left of Arthur, but I just don't know yet. Maybe the water is by Butcher Creek


 

Someone pointed this out the same day we got the trailer, i can't remember who exactly, but it was one of the regular mappers here. 

I came to the conclusion that those mountains are the far distant mountains, beyond WE, beyond NA. I can't really prove it, but that's how it looks.

Edited October 5, 2018 by DuPz0r

[Chinese Takeout]

15 minutes ago, SneakyDeaky said:

I'm sure you guys noticed the same barns and road near the water in both shots.

What if it was something simple (yeah right) like this?

My X is not exact just a guess.

Yep, you missed my post just above the guy who posted above you. Spot on! Great minds (and even horrible ones, like mine) think alike! I think your "X" is a pretty darn good guess.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Chinese Takeout

[SneakyDeaky]

Those mountains in the background do look so high up though. Just plain old FOV trickery?

[Chinese Takeout]

12 minutes ago, DuPz0r said:

I came to the conclusion that those mountains are the far distant mountains, beyond WE, beyond NA. I can't really prove it, but that's how it looks.

I think for sure they are...they just look way bigger in this shot...like, WAY bigger. But, this shot in the video *does* correspond with the narration "...with NEW cinematic cameras, with some stunning views!" so, that might explain the perspective change. Good ol' Focal Length, again, haha.

Before I forget...nothing earthshaking here, but someone over on the speculation thread posted this...not new, but in 4K, which I had not seen previously:

 

For posterity...

Horse A

Horse B

EDIT: Is this the first clear confirmation of a DOCTOR in Strawberry???

Spoiler

Arthur A

Arthur B

 

And, what the heck...

Gun A

Gun B

Edited October 5, 2018 by Chinese Takeout

[DuPz0r]

8 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

Before I forget...nothing earthshaking here, but someone over on the speculation thread posted this...not new, but in 4K, which I had not seen previously:

 

Horse A

 

 

That's Strawberry right?

[SneakyDeaky]

The engravings on that gun are so detailed. I never cared too much about the weapon skins in GTA 5 but in RDR 2 they stand out so much that I think I will care about them this time. You wouldn't want to leave that gun to get all dirty and rusty... What joker would do that!?

[Chinese Takeout]

10 minutes ago, DuPz0r said:

That's Strawberry right?

Yeah, I think we could see that horse above Strawberry in this shot, if the hotel wasn't in the way:

 

 

9 minutes ago, SneakyDeaky said:

The engravings on that gun are so detailed. I never cared too much about the weapon skins in GTA 5 but in RDR 2 they stand out so much that I think I will care about them this time. You wouldn't want to leave that gun to get all dirty and rusty... What joker would do that!?

Yeah, I have a feeling we'll be much more attached to our equipment/belongings in this game due to how much we'll need to care for them. Same with the horse, of course. heh.

(anyone already come up with a name for your RDRO horse?)

[SneakyDeaky]

I cannot figure out the cloth map. No matter where I place it it makes no sense. There should be rivers or water that are obvious but I can't even tell how water would be marked on that map because I can't see any. Sometimes I feel like I'm staring right at the Grizzlies somewhere, other times I feel like I'm staring at the moon. Is it completely out of bounds? Is it the right way up? (the numbers and grid suggest it is) If it's double sided, is one side North the other side South?

In that shootout in the snow shot, there's a mine shaft entrance. Should we be looking for that? Is this an underground map? I have no clue. I can't find any man-made like structures.

Edited October 5, 2018 by SneakyDeaky

[Pudgehodge]

3 hours ago, BretMaverick777 said:

Can people stop peddling ignorance now?  

And none of this is relevant to anything about RDR2 in the first place.  The whole argument got started when somebody wanted to dodge the discussion about Micah's "Sons of Dutch" picture being located on the track below Horseshoe Overlook instead of off in Lower West Egypt.   The Dakota River CAUSEWAY is clearly visible in both the Sons of Dutch scene as well as the rival gang train robbery scene (because it's the same scene).

Where is the causeway clearly visible in the sons of dutch scene? I'm just trying to understand what you're saying, since you're talking like there's a clear view of this causeway but I think you're seeing something that some of us aren't. I broke down the sons of dutch image, tell me if you think some things are different from what I labelled them as.

[jdogg17873]

2 hours ago, Chinese Takeout said:

YEP!!

Check out this pano from last week...look at the yellow line extending up from "SW"... to the right of the line you can clearly see a square-ish settlement with a few buildings, and to the left of the line, higher up, you can see a barn and other buildings...both of which you can see in the shot I just posted today. Excellent! But, what are the two different vantage points...SPECIFICALLY?

 

https://roundme.com/tour/314089/view/1025282/

 

Isn't that Bluegill Marsh in the distance here with the waterways that run through that region  - Copperhead Landing in the distance to the left of the line?

[DavidSilva21]

 

Hello, I follow what you have done for a long time, you are really very very good 

Jeux Actu a well known and serious french site had the opportunity to play 6 hours at the game and they made a video

so to summarize, they played the beginning of the game like the other journalists, they have nothing spoiled like some others
so to really talk about the map, when they had the opportunity to play freely in the open world they immediately tried to see the map, but it was hidden with a fog, all they said c is the Map is really huge, probably the biggest of Rockstar
they also say that Saint-Denis is in the South East of the map, so there is probably no playable zone in the South East ( Mexico) of the Map
they spoke about means of transport: Diligence, Train, horse
fast-travels: Arthur like John owns an individual camp
and many other very interesting things
-the dynamic weather, with a blizzard that moves if I understood correctly and so it radically changes the areas where it has gone
-the game starts in Mount Hagen
-the mechanics of the food very complete
- the landscapes are really varied and very beautiful

so I do not know if it will help you, this is the first time I comment on this site, but I just wanted to inform you about exclusive news

 

the video 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by DavidSilva21

[DuPz0r]

10 minutes ago, DavidSilva21 said:

...so to really talk about the map, when they had the opportunity to play freely in the open world they immediately tried to see the map, but it was hidden with a fog, all they said c is the Map is really huge, probably the biggest of Rockstar
they also say that Saint-Denis is in the South East of the map, so there is probably no playable zone in the South East of the Map

 

Hmm, that's interesting. So they pause the game and see fog, but when they made it to Saint Denis, it was in the South East part of the map.  If RDR1's map was in the game, that would make St Denis East of the map, not South East...

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by DuPz0r

[Tonesta]

1 hour ago, DuPz0r said:

Someone pointed this out the same day we got the trailer, i can't remember who exactly, but it was one of the regular mappers here. 

I came to the conclusion that those mountains are the far distant mountains, beyond WE, beyond NA. I can't really prove it, but that's how it looks.

Yeah, I think it comes down - again - to map boundaries. Something I've been banging on about a lot this week (but then I don't have a lot of your skills in intricate map triangulation!)

 

We know they have to exist. But we equally know that Rockstar hasn't previously liked them to be completely arbitrary (the Watch Dogs 2 style of "I think I'm going to turn around in 10 seconds for no particular reason).

 

Stands to reason there'll be mountains to the North and Northeast.

Nutbuster, I & others think that the Australian article earlier this week is a strong clue that the Lannahechee river will be that boundary to the South and Southeast - and that they are going to redeploy the GTAV model of "Oh dear my boat has sunk crossing this large body of water".

 

But West and Southwest? Rockstar has been doing their very best to avoid giving us any unrestricted shots in those directions. I'm sure we all suspect now that's because they're still trying to hide New Austin (and maybe more map north and south of it) that's lying in that direction. Chinese Takeout's magic work in retouching the one obscured shot that we do have maybe suggests the answer - that there's going to be a huge impassable ridge in that direction. Maybe in exactly the same place as RDR - only bigger this time around because everything is!?

[Chinese Takeout]

1 minute ago, DuPz0r said:

 

Hmm, that's interesting. So they pause the game and see fog, but when they made it to Saint Denis, it was in the South East part of the map.  If RDR1's map was in the game, that would make St Denis East of the map, not South East...

I wonder how often they paused and checked the map. It's possible that when you first start the game the farthest NORTH/EAST/SOUTH/WEST the map goes...is the size of Arthur. And as you travel, not only does the fog dissipate, but the physical borders of the map (i.e. how far you can move your cursor) also enlarges. Maybe when they got to St. Denis that was as far as the map seemed to go BECAUSE that's as far South and East as they had been? IDK...just looking for options.

[DavidSilva21]

2 minutes ago, DuPz0r said:

 

Hmm, that's interesting. So they pause the game and see fog, but when they made it to Saint Denis, it was in the South East part of the map.  If RDR1's map was in the game, that would make St Denis East of the map, not South East...

I do not know, maybe they called it south because the map is very large to the North
or simply because it is at the southern limit of the Map facing the lake

[DuPz0r]

2 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

I wonder how often they paused and checked the map. It's possible that when you first start the game the farthest NORTH/EAST/SOUTH/WEST the map goes...is the size of Arthur. And as you travel, not only does the fog dissipate, but the physical borders of the map (i.e. how far you can move your cursor) also enlarges. Maybe when they got to St. Denis that was as far as the map seemed to go BECAUSE that's as far South and East as they had been? IDK...just looking for options.

That's a good point. If it's the limit of landmass they've reached maybe the map hasn't fully expanded. Still, that information has given me some doubts.

[Chinese Takeout]

Man, I'll tell you what...these trains, and bridges, and angles, and FOV, and "Musical Mountains" are giving me a HEADACHE! haha

 

Look below...If Train A leaves the station traveling East at 40kph...just kidding...look at Train A and Train B...the same mountain is in the background of each shot (do we have a name for that one yet? Is that Pyramid??). We know we are seeing that mountain from the same angle, different distances. And the train...in each shot...is moving from the left of the mountain to the right, or from WEST to EAST. Correct? They're BOTH on bridges/trestles going over water. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? Is Train A going clockwise around the track circuit, and Train B is going counter-clockwise (as I have illustrated)?The places I marked seem to be the ONLY places on the Leaked Map where the tracks run in that direction IN RELATION to Pyramid Mtn (or whatever its name is).

Furthermore, There's that shot straight up from Blackwater where we can see "Pyramid" and Hagen (which is really weird), and then, we can see Pyramid and (is that Nekoti outlined in black?) in the distance to the SW from Bacchus Bridge. In a very messy and confusing way, this seems to triangulate the Train B bridge to the general vicinity of where I've marked it (which I think a lot of us already suspect is its location). By the way...I think the "tilted map" I made makes this work better...pay attention to the red arrow going Southwest...on the tilted map it point more directly toward Pyramid and Nekoti. 

 

 

Embiggened Images:

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Chinese Takeout