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Mapping Red Dead Redemption 2! Landmark Analysis Thread


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  • DuPz0r

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  • BretMaverick777

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Made an update to the terrain map. Went in and fixed a few more issues. Added a more realistic colour pallet.      3D view: https://skfb.ly/6AXNp

I realise I don't have a good time of day, but note the gap in the floorboards in RDR1

I made this gif just to show the map matches. Credit goes to @TheWhiteHat for telling me about it!

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25 minutes ago, NickRooz said:

The Train, as featured in the game, runs passengers and freight on the entire network of railways throughout Ambarino, New Hanover, West Elizabeth, Lemoyne and New Austin."

 

See the source image

 

Murtaugh:  "It's thin..."

 

Braveheart: "Thin? It's anorexic!"

 

19453010_fa1_vo.jpg

Edited by Little Big Man
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5 minutes ago, Gangsterdesert said:

Well if law school taught me one thing, it's taking everything literally.
And I would personally say the quoted sentence confirms the train only. I could integrate a plane to a video game and say the plane, as featured in the game, flies it's passengers from Denver to Amsterdam. That doesn't necessarily mean that you could enter both cities. It just means that there's a plane in the game which is flying this route. Don't want to be the killjoy here, though.

"The Train, in the way that it is implemented within the game as you are playing it, runs the NPCs all around you on the entire network of railways throughout Ambarino, New Hanover, West Elizabeth, Lemoyne and New Austin. You know, the train you've seen Arthur interacting with in many of the trailers and screens that have been released."

 

I believe that was the full quote.

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So what will the train do when it crosses into New Austin? Disappear out into the wild blue yonder?

And if we are sitting in the train when that happens, will the conductor stop the train first and tell us to get off?

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17 minutes ago, Gangsterdesert said:

I could integrate a plane to a video game and say the plane, as featured in the game, flies it's passengers from Denver to Amsterdam.

 

There's only one thing moving between Denver and Amsterdam, my friend.

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Let's see;

 

Evidence for returning areas

 

Train description mentions New Austin

 

Desert still not located; could be south of Flat iron lake or in New Austin, although both are out of bounds on our map

 

Accurate leak that says Armadillo returns. Could be a North Yankton situation (With that draw distance, they'd have to recreate a large idea around it, at least up to the hill that leads to Hennigan's Stead) 

 

We can see Hennigan from Nekoti Rock, so they must recreate it to some degree. (The same with Nuevo Paraiso) Arguably it could be non-solid. 

 

Map ends at Thieve's Landing, and the lake it's located on is calm, flat and on the same level as Flat Iron lake, so a deadly current would be odd. Rockstar also doesn't do invisible walls, and we can travel on water at least on boats. They can't use a instantly-wanted thing since that would require recreating Hennigan's Stead as well. 

 

Against returning areas

 

Requires extra development time and resources

 

John says the gang never visited New Austin, although doesn't mean that Arthur couldn' t have visited it. 

 

 

I'm going to assume that the areas won't return so I won't be disappointed if they dont, but there is a lot of evidence for them. Tell me if I missed anything. 

Edited by Im2akillerfish
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Actually this was the full and correct quote:

 

29 minutes ago, NickRooz said:

Rockstar Games and Fascinations have collaborated to produce a Metal Earth 3D Puzzle for you to build, inspired by Red Dead Redemption 2. The Train, as featured in the game, runs passengers and freight on the entire network of railways throughout Ambarino, New Hanover, West Elizabeth, Lemoyne and New Austin.

 

We don't have to discuss citation rules here, though.
I just quoted anything important to state my allegation.

Meaning: Rockstar mentioned the train and those states, exactly.

The "as featured in the game" refers to the train, though. It has never been said that all of those states are part of the game. It could just be a mind-game sort of thing. You have to consider that RDR II's map is set adjacent to RDR I's map. It could probably mean that later (in 1911) the train went to New Austin, as well.
I hope we will get to see New Austin again, just don't hold on to it, otherwise it might be a disappointment. You can read it one way or the other. Both are possible. Hence anyone was reading it the way you do I was pointing out, that there is some other way to understand this statement too. You always have to be skeptical. At least to a certain and healthy amount.

 

17 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

in the way that it is implemented within the game as you are playing it

 

19 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

You know, the train you've seen Arthur interacting with in many of the trailers and screens that have been released.

This was never a part of the original quote, though.

 

11 minutes ago, SneakyDeaky said:

So what will the train do when it crosses into New Austin? Disappear out into the wild blue yonder?

And if we are sitting in the train when that happens, will the conductor stop the train first and tell us to get off?

Honestly? You got a point here. But the leaked map doesn't even show a train line going from the new to the old map.
If there are no tracks, there can't be a vanishing train.

 

11 minutes ago, Little Big Man said:

There's only one thing moving between Denver and Amsterdam, my friend.

*substantial coughing* I don't know about anything :D

 

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2 hours ago, BretMaverick777 said:

 

Everything else in your post is Hanging Dog Ranch, in Big Valley. 

Here's another shot of Hanging Dog, facing the opposite direction from your bottom photo:

hrkdY7v.jpg

i don't think you are right here. First, shape of the house does not match, second, area behind is too flat before it reaches the mountains. For me it's more like Cumberland

Forest.

.. and concerning your statement : " NEW AUSTIN IS REAL...BELIEVE "
You also said Ambarino is the desert. "Guaranteed!" .. don't get me wrong here, buddy ;)

 

24 minutes ago, SneakyDeaky said:

So what will the train do when it crosses into New Austin? Disappear out into the wild blue yonder?

As it will do when crossing to Nuevo Paraiso?

Edited by jimmybrooks
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9 hours ago, alz said:

Where would the recent postcards match up on this map?

This is my guess. Mainly due to the fact that it's the only curved building front we know of so far. but the buildings do line up around it.

tNPOqzk.jpg

Edited by DuPz0r
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8 minutes ago, jimmybrooks said:

i don't think you are right here. First, shape of the house does not match, second, area behind is too flat before it reaches the mountains. For me it's more like Cumberland

Forest.

I have to agree here, that does not look like Hanging Dog Ranch to me.

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The problem I have with New Austin not being in the game is why mention the train? If it was just a sign at a train station in New Hanover that read "Tickets to New Austin" I don't think any of us would pay any attention to it, it would just be an easter egg that helps connect the regions all together. But it was mentioned in Rockstar's Marketing campaign! And we all know Rockstar lately have been highly selective with the information they give us. So why mention it in their marketing?

As for why the train doesn't go to Mexico? I guess the lines just haven't been built yet in 1899.. And that's exactly what they could have done with New Austin i.e. the line doesn't connect to New Austin and the bridge is out at Thieves Landing, so you simply can't get there. I always thought that's exactly how it was, until they showed the desert and mentioned the train... Now IDK.

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4 minutes ago, retrogamer397 said:

Hey Guys, I heard the power unlimited preview of the game is releasing today. Where is it doe??

It was nothing. Had it yesterday, no new info or screens

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17 minutes ago, jimmybrooks said:

i don't think you are right here. First, shape of the house does not match, second, area behind is too flat before it reaches the mountains. For me it's more like Cumberland

Forest.

.. and concerning your statement : " NEW AUSTIN IS REAL...BELIEVE "
You also said Ambarino is the desert. "Guaranteed!" .. don't get me wrong here, buddy ;)

 

As it will do when crossing to Nuevo Paraiso?

Like I said:

 

Hanging Dog from another angle.

 

It's the exact same barn.  Same loft, two windows by the door, same roof. Same lumber, same paint job, same fence.  

 

One picture faces SW, one NE. 

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2 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

Like I said:

Hanging Dog from another angle.

It's the exact same barn.  Same loft, two windows by the door, same roof. Same lumber, same paint job, same fence. 

One picture faces SW, one NE. 

I think you compare it with the other pic, and there you might be right,

but i'm talking of the shot from above, where shapes do not match:

ksoqpvg.png

(credits to Stakoman for the image)

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Please explain how you came to that conclusion, i feel like I've missed something, because i see no similarities.

(The two left are a match i get that bit, but they don't resemble HDR)

glj9vxw.jpg

Edited by DuPz0r
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44 minutes ago, Gangsterdesert said:

This was never a part of the original quote, though.

I know, I took artistic license, haha. My point was the same as @SneakyDeaky's:

  1. The train is featured in the game
  2. It goes to these places listed
  3. you can get on the train
  4. ???
  5. Profit

😉

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Hey all. I’m a newbie but have been following for weeks in the shadows. Can I just say kudos to you all for the excellent mapping that has been going on. Can’t wait to see how close it is to the real thing! 

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1 hour ago, DuPz0r said:

Please explain how you came to that conclusion, i feel like I've missed something, because i see no similarities.

(The two left are a match i get that bit, but they don't resemble HDR)

glj9vxw.jpg

The two screens on the left are, again, the same barn, two different sides.

 

The panorama from Valley View shows the ranch house (biggest bldg) and several outbuildings (bunkhouses and sheds).  The barn is barely visible near the woods, and almost "touching" Arthur's saddle.  (I'm on mobile, so can't circle or point like usual.)  Look at the bottom screen, with Arthur outside the fence:  the big ranch house is just visible screen left. 

 

Better?

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14 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

The two screens on the left are, again, the same barn, two different sides.

 

The panorama from Valley View shows the ranch house (biggest bldg) and several outbuildings (bunkhouses and sheds).  The barn is barely visible near the woods, and almost "touching" Arthur's saddle.  (I'm on mobile, so can't circle or point like usual.)  Look at the bottom screen, with Arthur outside the fence:  the big ranch house is just visible screen left. 

 

Better?

Don’t have much proof but I think the small barn on the left might be Downes Ranch.

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Hey guys, I don't mean to throw a wrench into everything, but I'm fuzzy on our recent "Mt. Hagen" progress. 

 

This map places Mt. Hagen in RED, and we've talked about Lake Isabella and Beartooth Beck's relative locations... 

kQoAQeo.png

 

But the screenshot of Arthur looking down on Hanging Dog Ranch has me second-guessing it.

Spoiler

 

P6ORgZY.jpg

 

 

XeGnQ1S.jpg

 

 

See how I've marked up the leaked map, below...

Spoiler

ec7pocL.jpg

Am I reading something wrong? Arthur's position relative to what we've identified as Hanging Dog Ranch, in the screens above, is almost directly due south. In the second screen I posted above - according to the compass on the screen - you can draw a straight North-South line from what we think is Mt. Hagen and Arthur, with HD Ranch in between. If that's the case...is the run down POS shack in the postcard "Millesan's Claim" (or whatever that says)? And then, where is Lake Isabella to the West (could it be the source of Little Creek?) and Beartooth Beck to the East? Maybe Beartooth Beck is located where that word that looks like "lake?" is? Obviously there was some question of what went there, hence the question mark.

 

Also, incidentally, while "beck" is a stream and/or river, or whatever, and while it may very well be an actual body of water in the game...is it possible that "Beartooth Beck" is also the name of the town/settlement "which provides the main pass through the western mountain range." I.e. "provides," as in: if it weren't for the settlement of Beartooth Beck, where you could stop and spend the night indoors and re-supply, this pass wouldn't exist. It also would make sense in the context of yesterday's info dump: every section featured a city or town or settlement of some kind. If "Beartooth Beck" isn't an actual settlement, then it was the ONLY location featured yesterday without one. Just a thought.

 

Anyway...what about Mt. Hagen's location? Am I going crazy?

 

P.S. Pano, for great justice:

https://roundme.com/tour/303632/view/1006274/

 

EDIT: Fixt the directional headings in the pano...the original pano I made a couple months ago had them slightly off. I think they line up correctly now.

 

Edited by Chinese Takeout
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2 hours ago, Im2akillerfish said:

Let's see;

 

Evidence for returning areas

 

Train description mentions New Austin

 

Desert still not located; could be south of Flat iron lake or in New Austin, although both are out of bounds on our map

 

Accurate leak that says Armadillo returns. Could be a North Yankton situation (With that draw distance, they'd have to recreate a large idea around it, at least up to the hill that leads to Hennigan's Stead) 

 

We can see Hennigan from Nekoti Rock, so they must recreate it to some degree. (The same with Nuevo Paraiso) Arguably it could be non-solid. 

 

Map ends at Thieve's Landing, and the lake it's located on is calm, flat and on the same level as Flat Iron lake, so a deadly current would be odd. Rockstar also doesn't do invisible walls, and we can travel on water at least on boats. They can't use a instantly-wanted thing since that would require recreating Hennigan's Stead as well. 

 

Against returning areas

 

Requires extra development time and resources

 

John says the gang never visited New Austin, although doesn't mean that Arthur couldn' t have visited it. 

 

 

I'm going to assume that the areas won't return so I won't be disappointed if they dont, but there is a lot of evidence for them. Tell me if I missed anything. 

 

I was thinking a post like this was in order....then I saw that you'd already done it. Nice job!

 

For me, though, there are two main pieces of evidence that I would add to the 'Against' column.

 

#1 New Austin is not on the leaked map, and other than a couple of place-name changes, I don't believe we've seen anything that suggests that the leaked map is not accurate.

Furthermore, the map shows precisely where the train lines run (again - none of which seems to have been contradicted by any of the trailers and screenshots we've seen) and they go absolutely nowhere near New Austin. It would seem to fit that the train line to Blackwater and on to New Austin is built between RDR and RDR2.....and that the toy train description is taking some liberties.....

Of course it's also possible that the train line to New Austin gets built during the game which would be super cool (although super complicated for the developers!)

 

#2 It wasn't mentioned in Monday's 'Frontier, Cities and Towns' teaser, which bore the quote " Discover some of the towns dotted across the vast and varied landscape of Red Dead Redemption 2; from the forests of West Elizabeth to the mountains of Ambarino to the plains of New Hanover to the swamps of Lemoyne."

 

 

Now like you - I have no idea which way this is ultimately going to fall. It could be that the leaked map is the entire map, and they've found a way to cram a small desert into it somewhere (island?). And that will still be cool - it's going to be a big, dense and beautiful map, even if that's all we get.

It's also possible that Rockstar have some big surprises up their sleeve and the map is going to be substantially different to anything yet imagined (although it was just for a couple of missions, I don't remember anyone predicting or leaking North Yankton until GTAV was very close to release).

 

I just worry that anyone who is convincing themselves that New Austin, and in particular Mexico, are going to be on the RDR2 map may be setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

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7 hours ago, Stakoman said:

Hi guys so I just went to the last gameplay trailer in hopes I could find any info or something that just helped...and the only thing that i saw was this farm shown here:

 

at the 0:40 mark on the gameplay trailer

 

NZTS1i5.jpg

 

ksoqpvg.png

 

edit: found another farm from 1:38-1:40 seconds:

 

r4IMSmU.jpg

 

And then I saw this one from the new "postcards":

 

5b4d93ba9182bdb33fb56ba33543dc66.jpg

 

also we have this screenshot from other trailer:

 

RedDead2_023-1796-360.jpg

 

 

Could this be the same farm but from a different angle?

the farm in the valley is hanging dog ranch

 

the new pics are valentine

 

i dont know how youve mixed those two up bro

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I kind of have a feel now that the leaked map is everything for RDR 2.

Red Dead Online will probably eventually add New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso as free DLC in one of the later updates (and maybe they have a SP dlc planned for those areas too), but they will not be in RDR 2.

The desert which we've seen is that island on top of the map, either as a Yankton-esque location, or located somewhere as an extension of New Austin or Nuevo Paraiso.

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47 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

Hey guys, I don't mean to throw a wrench into everything, but I'm fuzzy on our recent "Mt. Hagen" progress. 

 

This map places Mt. Hagen in RED, and we've talked about Lake Isabella and Beartooth Beck's relative locations... 

kQoAQeo.png

 

But the screenshot of Arthur looking down on Hanging Dog Ranch has me second-guessing it.

  Hide contents

 

P6ORgZY.jpg

 

 

XeGnQ1S.jpg

 

 

See how I've marked up the leaked map, below...

  Hide contents

ec7pocL.jpg

Am I reading something wrong? Arthur's position relative to what we've identified as Hanging Dog Ranch, in the screens above, is almost directly due south. In the second screen I posted above - according to the compass on the screen - you can draw a straight North-South line from what we think is Mt. Hagen and Arthur, with HD Ranch in between. If that's the case...is the run down POS shack in the postcard "Millesan's Claim" (or whatever that says)? And then, where is Lake Isabella to the West (could it be the source of Little Creek?) and Beartooth Beck to the East? Maybe Beartooth Beck is located where that word that looks like "lake?" is? Obviously there was some question of what went there, hence the question mark.

 

Also, incidentally, while "beck" is a stream and/or river, or whatever, and while it may very well be an actual body of water in the game...is it possible that "Beartooth Beck" is also the name of the town/settlement "which provides the main pass through the western mountain range." I.e. "provides," as in: if it weren't for the settlement of Beartooth Beck, where you could stop and spend the night indoors and re-supply, this pass wouldn't exist. It also would make sense in the context of yesterday's info dump: every section featured a city or town or settlement of some kind. If "Beartooth Beck" isn't an actual settlement, then it was the ONLY location featured yesterday without one. Just a thought.

 

Anyway...what about Mt. Hagen's location? Am I going crazy?

 

P.S. Pano, for great justice:

https://roundme.com/tour/303632/view/1006274/

 

EDIT: Fixt the directional headings in the pano...the original pano I made a couple months ago had them slightly off. I think they line up correctly now.

 

Rockstar either changed the map considerably in regards to the Grizzlies or the minimap is no longer reliable. Mt. Hagen was explicitly said to be in the Grizzlies. Where you positioned it isn't possible, because it's in the wrong region.

 

If they changed the map from what the leaked map is, the Grizzlies seem to have shifted northwest from where they originally were. Something like this:

DbCyILL.png

Which begs a few more questions. Has the Dakota River moved as well? Either way what is in the area the Grizzlies leave behind? Does this mean that others areas have expanded, or have they shifted Cumberland and Roanoke northwest as well? That might explain similar problems we've seen in southern Roanoke around Mossy Flats. 

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1 hour ago, Chinese Takeout said:

Hey guys, I don't mean to throw a wrench into everything, but I'm fuzzy on our recent "Mt. Hagen" progress. 

 

This map places Mt. Hagen in RED, and we've talked about Lake Isabella and Beartooth Beck's relative locations... 

kQoAQeo.png

 

But the screenshot of Arthur looking down on Hanging Dog Ranch has me second-guessing it.

  Hide contents

 

P6ORgZY.jpg

 

 

XeGnQ1S.jpg

 

 

See how I've marked up the leaked map, below...

  Hide contents

ec7pocL.jpg

Am I reading something wrong? Arthur's position relative to what we've identified as Hanging Dog Ranch, in the screens above, is almost directly due south. In the second screen I posted above - according to the compass on the screen - you can draw a straight North-South line from what we think is Mt. Hagen and Arthur, with HD Ranch in between. If that's the case...is the run down POS shack in the postcard "Millesan's Claim" (or whatever that says)? And then, where is Lake Isabella to the West (could it be the source of Little Creek?) and Beartooth Beck to the East? Maybe Beartooth Beck is located where that word that looks like "lake?" is? Obviously there was some question of what went there, hence the question mark.

 

Also, incidentally, while "beck" is a stream and/or river, or whatever, and while it may very well be an actual body of water in the game...is it possible that "Beartooth Beck" is also the name of the town/settlement "which provides the main pass through the western mountain range." I.e. "provides," as in: if it weren't for the settlement of Beartooth Beck, where you could stop and spend the night indoors and re-supply, this pass wouldn't exist. It also would make sense in the context of yesterday's info dump: every section featured a city or town or settlement of some kind. If "Beartooth Beck" isn't an actual settlement, then it was the ONLY location featured yesterday without one. Just a thought.

 

Anyway...what about Mt. Hagen's location? Am I going crazy?

 

P.S. Pano, for great justice:

https://roundme.com/tour/303632/view/1006274/

 

EDIT: Fixt the directional headings in the pano...the original pano I made a couple months ago had them slightly off. I think they line up correctly now.

 

I've been wondering about the compass since we first started mapping big valley and grizzely intro. It could well be that the map has been extended since the leaked version. Or we're looking at it wrong and the peaks arent where we think they are...

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