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Mapping Red Dead Redemption 2! Landmark Analysis Thread


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Made an update to the terrain map. Went in and fixed a few more issues. Added a more realistic colour pallet.      3D view: https://skfb.ly/6AXNp

I realise I don't have a good time of day, but note the gap in the floorboards in RDR1

I made this gif just to show the map matches. Credit goes to @TheWhiteHat for telling me about it!

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12 hours ago, Sausache said:

kQoAQeo.png

Decided to give a map overlay to better illustrate positions. The white nd purple mountains are outside of the map. The cyan mountains(Valley Peaks) are the northern range of Big Valley(obviously). Arthur's position, however, limits his view of the main part of the Grizzlies. We can see that Mount Hagen is clearly where I marked red, and the smaller mountain with the cabin to it's south is where I marked light green. Colter is hidden behind Mount Hagen from the Big Valley shot.

 

One of the more well-known peaks in the snowy Grizzlies of Ambarino, Mount Hagen towers above Lake Isabella to the west and Beartooth Beck to the east, which provides the main pass through the western mountain range and joins up with the Dakota River further south

 

Lake Isabella is to it's west, and Beartooth Beck appears to either be Colter itself, Granni Pass or the name of the trail running through that area east of Mount Hagen. Regardless, the other mountains to the left of Mount Hagen in the Big Valley shot are very likely not within the map(or at the very least the border in the far north of the Grizzlies to the point where they don't show up on the leaked map). As to whether you marked them correctly, there is no way for me to know for sure.

Granni Pass:  *Granite Pass

 

The "beck" is a stream, not a mountain.  Even foreign translations of the R* site list it as "stream."

 

The Beck is the border between Grizzlies and Intro. Purple dotted line on the leaked map.  It's a stream/mountain pass that pushes into the unmapped dark brown region above our map. 

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I am sure this has already been discussed, but I find the choices of locations presented peculiar.  Five of the locations (Valentine, Annesburg, Saint Denis, Rhodes and Strawberry) all appear as towns on the leaked map.  Lagras appear only as a settlement (of which there are many on the leaked map), and Mount Hagen is the only knew location (by name at least), although the pass it seems to reference is the Granite Pass appearing on the leaked map as well.

 

I mean, the answer to the question 'why doesn't Blackwater appear?' should be obvious; it was in the previous game.  But considering its present in the game (and in the trailers), it won't play an insignificant amount to the story.  The purpose of the list of locations is surely to give us an idea of the variety of locations in the game (it says so itself), but are they presented in any significant order?  I would imagine that Mount Hagen and Valentine to be some of the first locations the story would take us to (particularly if the theory - which I believe myself - about the intro-area is to be believed).

 

In terms of variety, only Annesburg, Saint Denis, Mount Hagen and Lagras stand out.  While different, Valentine, Rhodes and Strawberry appear on the surface to have quite a lot in common.  Amarillo in New Austin would stand out from this lot, as the terrain surrounding those three towns appear quite similar.

 

All this make me wonder about the significantly curated list.  This is the first time we've really seen Saint Denis.  There are brief mentions of it in merchandise and glimpses of it in trailers, but you'd had to look closely to spot it was Saint Denis... until now.  I believe Lagras has appeared in trailers prior, although we had not identified it as such, and there are possibly shots from in and around Mount Hagen.

 

Effectively, it leaves me to wonder what they are leaving out.  And I think they are definitely leaving significant locations out (take Blackwater, as an example).  Like; what about the island?  Or the desert?

 

While I am slowly coming to the conclusion that the leaked map is the entire map for RDR2 (nothing bad about that), there are still unanswered questions, and I believe Rockstar Games will purposefully avoid some of those until the last minute.

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I still wonder where that burning town in the last frame of trailer 3 is. It seems to be in the same biome as Strawberry, so I see two options here: 

 

1: It's a ghost town somewhere that is just marked as a location on the map, just like Tumbleweed.

2: Something happens to Strawberry so it burns down. Considering the story we now know of Strawberry about the mayor and his wishes, it could be that Dutch's gang ends up setting the whole place on fire as a symbol of anti-civilization.

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Hi guys so I just went to the last gameplay trailer in hopes I could find any info or something that just helped...and the only thing that i saw was this farm shown here:

 

at the 0:40 mark on the gameplay trailer

 

NZTS1i5.jpg

 

ksoqpvg.png

 

edit: found another farm from 1:38-1:40 seconds:

 

r4IMSmU.jpg

 

And then I saw this one from the new "postcards":

 

5b4d93ba9182bdb33fb56ba33543dc66.jpg

 

also we have this screenshot from other trailer:

 

RedDead2_023-1796-360.jpg

 

 

Could this be the same farm but from a different angle?

Edited by Stakoman
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I'd guess it is several different ranches.  The map clearly suggests there are several.  The one in the postcard is near a town, Valentine, and the ranch in the still from the gameplay trailer looks to be quite alone (i.e. no town nearby).  If I had to wager a guess, I would say it's Adler Ranch on the map, the one that appear at 0:40 in the gameplay trailer.

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20 minutes ago, Stakoman said:

 

Could this be the same farm but from a different angle?

Nice spot, but I think the gable end of the right hand building is different in the two pictures:

 

V2HbQb9.png

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32 minutes ago, Stakoman said:

Hi guys so I just went to the last gameplay trailer in hopes I could find any info or something that just helped...and the only thing that i saw was this farm shown here:

 

at the 0:40 mark on the gameplay trailer

 

NZTS1i5.jpg

 

ksoqpvg.png

 

 

And then I saw this one from the new "postcards":

 

5b4d93ba9182bdb33fb56ba33543dc66.jpg

 

also we have this screenshot from other trailer:

 

RedDead2_023-1796-360.jpg

 

 

Could this be the same farm but from a different angle?

Not the same. Top one is Hanging Dog Ranch, the postcard is Valentine which we know where it is on the map.

 

Not sure about the last one, but it's none of the two above. Could be part of Rhodes, or any number of lone ranches around the map.

Edited by DuPz0r
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5 minutes ago, DuPz0r said:

Not the same. Top one is Hanging Dog Ranch, the postcard is Valentine which we know where it is on the map.

 

Where is Hanging Dog Ranch?  I can't seem to find it on the map.

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Sorry about that guys I sawy it and since it was on my mind and maybe some of you around here could give a better angle than i did!

 

moving next:

 

Using my paint skills I started working on this 5 min ago:

 

The postcard:  

 

dxNu2hc.jpg

 

and this screenshot from 1:38-1:40

(The Orange is the Point of view)

2pmDUxi.jpg

 

Video for better understading 

 it feels good to this! 

 

 

Edited by Stakoman
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Yeah dude, we mapped Valentine. Have a look back in this thread if you want. There's a lot of pages i know, but once you've got through a few pages, you'll know the map like the back of your hand. We should really compile some of it into a super post to refer to if i'm honest, there's a lot of analysis though. 

Edited by DuPz0r
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I have been reading along quite a substantial amount of time. I wanted to contribute some times already, but in the end someone else already pointed out what I wanted to say, so I had no reason to sign up in the gtaforums. Now, as the hype gets real, I want to contribute anyways, so I made the decision to sign up now.
First of all I have to point out that all of you are doing some incredible work in here. It's really nice to read along.

 

1 hour ago, Stakoman said:

Hi guys so I just went to the last gameplay trailer in hopes I could find any info or something that just helped...and the only thing that i saw was this farm shown here:

 

at the 0:40 mark on the gameplay trailer

 

NZTS1i5.jpg

 

ksoqpvg.png

 

edit: found another farm from 1:38-1:40 seconds:

 

r4IMSmU.jpg

 

And then I saw this one from the new "postcards":

 

5b4d93ba9182bdb33fb56ba33543dc66.jpg

 

also we have this screenshot from other trailer:

 

RedDead2_023-1796-360.jpg

 

 

Could this be the same farm but from a different angle?

As DuPz0r already said, I am pretty sure those are different ranches, too.
If you look closely, you can make out a water tower next to the barn in the shot from 0:40 in the gameplay trailer.
I tried to point that out with help of photoshop.

 

9q3r5zA.png

 

Edited by Gangsterdesert
image wasn't visible
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Just for the record, how many of us believe Beartooth Beck/Creek is between these mountains? because i'm 50/50 and i'm not sure if i should add it to my map or not.

 

@BretMaverick777 Is this the line of flow i can't really see much in that purple mess?

kbq8ZGg.jpgnthWdE8.jpg

 

Or is it wrong, and the body water at Colter is actually Beck? Because it kind of looks like a tooth shape, and it's a body water in that general area...? That's why i'm torn.

Edited by DuPz0r
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Where is Lake Isabella then?

 

(Besides, the Beck is supposed to be east of Mount Hagen according to the description.)

Edited by Svip
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Well, @Sausache suggested this could be one of the bodies of water. Something that's been a mystery since we first laid eyes on the map.

gDlwQlx.jpg

 

(But yeah, you're right, it is East of Hagen, so maybe not Colter)

Edited by DuPz0r
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27 minutes ago, DuPz0r said:

Just for the record, how many of us believe Beartooth Beck/Creek is between these mountains? because i'm 50/50 and i'm not sure if i should add it to my map or not.

 

@BretMaverick777 Is this the line of flow i can't really see much in that purple mess?

kbq8ZGg.jpgnthWdE8.jpg

 

Or is it wrong, and the body water at Colter is actually Beck? Because it kind of looks like a tooth shape, and it's a body water in that general area...? That's why i'm torn.

A Beck is a stream not a lake. It's entirely possible that lake is the source of the Beck but I'd put my money on it being that dashed purple line. 

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2 hours ago, Svip said:

I am sure this has already been discussed, but I find the choices of locations presented peculiar.  Five of the locations (Valentine, Annesburg, Saint Denis, Rhodes and Strawberry) all appear as towns on the leaked map.  Lagras appear only as a settlement (of which there are many on the leaked map), and Mount Hagen is the only knew location (by name at least), although the pass it seems to reference is the Granite Pass appearing on the leaked map as well.

 

I mean, the answer to the question 'why doesn't Blackwater appear?' should be obvious; it was in the previous game.  But considering its present in the game (and in the trailers), it won't play an insignificant amount to the story.  The purpose of the list of locations is surely to give us an idea of the variety of locations in the game (it says so itself), but are they presented in any significant order?  I would imagine that Mount Hagen and Valentine to be some of the first locations the story would take us to (particularly if the theory - which I believe myself - about the intro-area is to be believed).

 

In terms of variety, only Annesburg, Saint Denis, Mount Hagen and Lagras stand out.  While different, Valentine, Rhodes and Strawberry appear on the surface to have quite a lot in common.  Amarillo in New Austin would stand out from this lot, as the terrain surrounding those three towns appear quite similar.

 

All this make me wonder about the significantly curated list.  This is the first time we've really seen Saint Denis.  There are brief mentions of it in merchandise and glimpses of it in trailers, but you'd had to look closely to spot it was Saint Denis... until now.  I believe Lagras has appeared in trailers prior, although we had not identified it as such, and there are possibly shots from in and around Mount Hagen.

 

Effectively, it leaves me to wonder what they are leaving out.  And I think they are definitely leaving significant locations out (take Blackwater, as an example).  Like; what about the island?  Or the desert?

 

While I am slowly coming to the conclusion that the leaked map is the entire map for RDR2 (nothing bad about that), there are still unanswered questions, and I believe Rockstar Games will purposefully avoid some of those until the last minute.

There's definitely a lot that was left out of yesterday's info dump.  I'm surprised that some people think that's the entirety of Rockstar's offer on the towns and cities, or the map in general.   It's just a sampling.   They didn't touch on Blackwater or Van Horn, nor offer any new info on the desert, on the island, nor on New Austin.   And it surprises me even more that a few of you took that lack of info to suddenly mean "omg, New Austin isn't in the game."  Of course it is....both the train merch and the 100% accurate (so far) reddit leak confirmed that.   So yeah, they've still got cards they're playing close to the vest, and these are just some of them.

2 hours ago, Stakoman said:

Hi guys so I just went to the last gameplay trailer in hopes I could find any info or something that just helped...and the only thing that i saw was this farm shown here:

 

at the 0:40 mark on the gameplay trailer

 

NZTS1i5.jpg

 

ksoqpvg.png

 

edit: found another farm from 1:38-1:40 seconds:

 

r4IMSmU.jpg

 

And then I saw this one from the new "postcards":

 

5b4d93ba9182bdb33fb56ba33543dc66.jpg

 

also we have this screenshot from other trailer:

 

RedDead2_023-1796-360.jpg

 

 

Could this be the same farm but from a different angle?

As Dupzor pointed out, the Valentine Stockyard -- Worth's Auction Yard, to be specific -- has been well-known and mapped for months....that's the postcard in your picture, and the corresponding sunrise shot above that. 

 

Everything else in your post is Hanging Dog Ranch, in Big Valley. 

Here's another shot of Hanging Dog, facing the opposite direction from your bottom photo:

hrkdY7v.jpg

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2 hours ago, Nyfyr said:

I still wonder where that burning town in the last frame of trailer 3 is. It seems to be in the same biome as Strawberry, so I see two options here: 

 

1: It's a ghost town somewhere that is just marked as a location on the map, just like Tumbleweed.

2: Something happens to Strawberry so it burns down. Considering the story we now know of Strawberry about the mayor and his wishes, it could be that Dutch's gang ends up setting the whole place on fire as a symbol of anti-civilization.

I think Strawberry is going to be a interesting mission town. I think the mayor wants Strawberry to be a wild west theme town (where the west comes alive) and hires to gang to put on a show. The gang sees this as a easy opportunity to rob people for real and get away with it.

 

That's just a thought. 

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28 minutes ago, paddymcg said:

A Beck is a stream not a lake. It's entirely possible that lake is the source of the Beck but I'd put my money on it being that dashed purple line. 

Definitely. 

The small body of water just west of Colter is probably just a pond for the logging camp.   And judging from the temps, it's probably frozen over, which could be cool (literally).

 

I'm inclined to agree that Isabella isn't actually on our leaked map (yet), but is rather, as suggested, the spot marked "lake?" before they added the physical model. 

 

 

 

 

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Just a thought here, but I feel a little disappointed to be honest.
We speculated on how there might be even more states than just Lemoyne, Ambarino, New Hanover and West Elizabeth.
I consider New Austin won't be in the game, as R* never mentioned it, but once. Let's be honest, just by saying that the train runs through New Austin, doesn't mean we will be able to enter the state of NA.
Don't get me wrong here, the game will probably be amazing and R* never really disappointed me, because they really do put a lot of effort in their games.
I was just overthinking I guess. Overthinking how huge that map could have been. And now it's probably just like 5 small towns, one larger and one you'd define as a small city. Nevertheless I hoped for something bigger, thinking off that they had about 10 years development time.
A huge plain mountain range won't be entertaining for months I guess.

And just to clarify, this is no complaint amigos. I don't want to mock or anything. I am just afraid I might have had too high hopes.

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5 minutes ago, Gangsterdesert said:

Just a thought here, but I feel a little disappointed to be honest.
We speculated on how there might be even more states than just Lemoyne, Ambarino, New Hanover and West Elizabeth.
I consider New Austin won't be in the game, as R* never mentioned it, but once. Let's be honest, just by saying that the train runs through New Austin, doesn't mean we will be able to enter the state of NA.
Don't get me wrong here, the game will probably be amazing and R* never really disappointed me, because they really do put a lot of effort in their games.
I was just overthinking I guess. Overthinking how huge that map could have been. And now it's probably just like 5 small towns, one larger and one you'd define as a small city. Nevertheless I hoped for something bigger, thinking off that they had about 10 years development time.
A huge plain mountain range won't be entertaining for months I guess.

And just to clarify, this is no complaint amigos. I don't want to mock or anything. I am just afraid I might have had too high hopes.

What's so disappointing with having just the stuff you've mentioned? I'd rather have less but more polished and cities/towns/settlements that feel more alive than a big world with basically no life at all and basically nothing to do besides the main missions(I'm looking at you Mafia 3). And besides, I think we will get New Austin, otherwise why would they mention it?

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12 minutes ago, NickRooz said:

What's so disappointing with having just the stuff you've mentioned? I'd rather have less but more polished and cities/towns/settlements that feel more alive than a big world with basically no life at all and basically nothing to do besides the main missions(I'm looking at you Mafia 3). And besides, I think we will get New Austin, otherwise why would they mention it?

We'll get New Austin.

Even those of you who advocate for "less is more" seem to agree that our (in)famous desert shot is in New Austin.   And again, the 2 yr old reddit leak confirmed AT LEAST Armadillo and Ridgewood Farm, which are both smack in the middle of the state.  

NEW AUSTIN IS REAL...BELIEVE

 

(btw:   my new Expanded Map theory involves Ambarino, unsurprisingly, but with a new approach.  I think the Mt. Hagen write-up is strongly hinting there's something at the upper end of the mountain pass that is Beartooth Beck.)

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17 minutes ago, NickRooz said:

I think we will get New Austin, otherwise why would they mention it?

 

They didn't mention it.

 

 Some train toy did.

 

2 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

confirm

 

I don't think this word means what you think it does.

 

It indicates making sure that something is true, not discovering evidence of something.

Edited by Little Big Man
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4 minutes ago, NickRooz said:

What's so disappointing with having just the stuff you've mentioned?

I am totally with you that a more dense and realistic small world is better than a lifeless huge world. But what's disappointing for me is that the map does seem to have the size of about 120 % of the original RDR map (granted that NA wouldn't be in game). Our consoles do have much more power now than those PS3's and Xbox360's back in the days. Furthermore they talk about deserts, swamps, plain grasslands, forrests, mountain ranges, lakes and so much more. It would be just sad if they created those biomes (and put so much effort in there) plus they really did emphasize the design and behavior of the wildlife, and all of that would be divided to an area the size of paleto bay in GTA V. That just doesn't seem right to me.

 

14 minutes ago, NickRooz said:

otherwise why would they mention it?

Because of the fact that this train does run through all of those states (at least in the end by 1911 where RDR 1 took us).
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Thieve's Landing and Armadillo again. But why didn't they give another hint it might be in game? This would result in an even bigger hype and thus in bigger and better sales figures. But they mentioned it related to the train only, which could mean anything. :)

The game will be huge, nevertheless!

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9 minutes ago, Little Big Man said:

 

They didn't mention it.

 

 Some train toy did.

Rockstar Games and Fascinations have collaborated to produce a Metal Earth 3D Puzzle for you to build, inspired by Red Dead Redemption 2. The Train, as featured in the game, runs passengers and freight on the entire network of railways throughout Ambarino, New Hanover, West Elizabeth, Lemoyne and New Austin."

 

Sounds an awfully lot like New Austin will feature in RDR2. 

 

And of course the big elephant in the room: the desert in the last couple of seconds of the gameplay trailer. What location could that be in game? Either a reimagined New Austin, or a Mexico/Arizona kind of location, I think. And I don't think it will be Yankton kind of deal either. 

Edited by NickRooz
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8 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

Even those of you who advocate for "less is more" seem to agree that our (in)famous desert shot is in New Austin.

Would be nice to have at least New Austin back as this would make the world at least a little bit bigger than the original one.
I heard some rumors though, the desert shot might be the arcane island we don't know much about.
It could probably just sit in Big Valley or Scarlett Meadows as the mountains seem farther away. I mean I could be totally wrong here, but it could be about anywhere, if its rather small.

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2 minutes ago, Gangsterdesert said:

Would be nice to have at least New Austin back as this would make the world at least a little bit bigger than the original one.
I heard some rumors though, the desert shot might be the arcane island we don't know much about.
It could probably just sit in Big Valley or Scarlett Meadows as the mountains seem farther away. I mean I could be totally wrong here, but it could be about anywhere, if its rather small.

Doubtful as Big Valley is too north and Scarlett Meadows is based on the Deep South, which has no deserts like the one seen in the trailer.

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15 minutes ago, Gangsterdesert said:

I am totally with you that a more dense and realistic small world is better than a lifeless huge world. But what's disappointing for me is that the map does seem to have the size of about 120 % of the original RDR map (granted that NA wouldn't be in game). Our consoles do have much more power now than those PS3's and Xbox360's back in the days. Furthermore they talk about deserts, swamps, plain grasslands, forrests, mountain ranges, lakes and so much more. It would be just sad if they created those biomes (and put so much effort in there) plus they really did emphasize the design and behavior of the wildlife, and all of that would be divided to an area the size of paleto bay in GTA V. That just doesn't seem right to me.

 

Because of the fact that this train does run through all of those states (at least in the end by 1911 where RDR 1 took us).
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Thieve's Landing and Armadillo again. But why didn't they give another hint it might be in game? This would result in an even bigger hype and thus in bigger and better sales figures. But they mentioned it related to the train only, which could mean anything. :)

The game will be huge, nevertheless!

Nobody will refrain from buying the game because of some Armadillo map not included. You'll probably not find anybody caring if it's included or not other than in dedicated fan sites like this one. 

Edited by Efreet
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9 minutes ago, NickRooz said:

The Train, as featured in the game,

Well if law school taught me one thing, it's taking everything literally.
And I would personally say the quoted sentence confirms the train only. I could integrate a plane to a video game and say the plane, as featured in the game, flies it's passengers from Denver to Amsterdam. That doesn't necessarily mean that you could enter both cities. It just means that there's a plane in the game which is flying this route. Don't want to be the killjoy here, though.

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