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Mapping Red Dead Redemption 2! Landmark Analysis Thread


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Made an update to the terrain map. Went in and fixed a few more issues. Added a more realistic colour pallet.      3D view: https://skfb.ly/6AXNp

I realise I don't have a good time of day, but note the gap in the floorboards in RDR1

I made this gif just to show the map matches. Credit goes to @TheWhiteHat for telling me about it!

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27 minutes ago, Jonny04 said:

Yeah I noticed, was hidden under a spoiler like my own post haha, didn't see it when I did a quick scan to see if it was already done!

 

Oh well 😂

Thanks for doing it, all the same! 👍

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Now i see where it is on the landscape, i think it's the same mountain peaks i named two tacos in the first trailer. They seem to have changed a lot since then though, as has many other rocks gone through a fidelity pass since then. But it sits in the exact same place as those two tacos.

 

SNz2M0h.jpg

 

I'm not sure if Hagen is the mountain he's riding the horse on or the dominant peak behind it... I think Mt. Hagen is more fitting for the bigger background mountain, so i'm calling that Hagen.

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YwhAmG9.jpg

Fishin' in the crawdad hole, center screen. 

Hope that means we have the freedom to drop a line pretty much anywhere, and aren't limited to pre-designated fishing "nodes."  

3 minutes ago, DuPz0r said:

Now i see where it is on the landscape, i think it's the same mountain peaks i named two tacos in the first trailer. They seem to have changed a lot since then though, as has many other rocks gone through a fidelity pass since then. But it sits in the exact same place as those two tacos.

 

SNz2M0h.jpg

 

I'm not sure if Hagen is the mountain he's riding the horse on or the dominant peak behind it... I think Mt. Hagen is more fitting for the bigger background mountain, so i'm calling that Hagen.

Without getting in at ground level to see, I can't say for sure....but I'm guessing that Beartooth Beck, as a creek, actually separates that "beartooth" ridge behind from the summit of Mt. Hagen proper, which is where the rundown shack seems to be located.  

In your "Two Tacos" scenario, it looks like Mt. Hagen has always been the mountain in front, while "Beartooth Ridge" would be the taco to the rear.  

 

Mmmm....tacos bell grande

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11 hours ago, Money Over Bullsh*t said:

You actually could be right since it's seemingly the only place name that's been changed from the original map. If you're correct though the leaked map is actually a lot older than we think. Unless Rockstar literally only found out about New Bordeaux when everyone else did. Same publisher doesn't necessarily mean any inside knowledge I suppose.

 

I doubt the studios for T2 share talent or information. The CEO might know, or at least know what projects the studios are working on but fine details probably not.

The map was leaked in what? April 2016? From info gathered it was a “very recent” art direction model. Mafia 3 was teased in July 2015 not sure when it was found out it was set in New Bordeaux and not new Orleans.

 

The interesting thing about New Bordeaux and Saint Denis is they have the same syllable count. So the animators wouldn't have to re do a bunch of faces for a new city name.

 

RDR 2 has probably been in development since maybe late 2010 or 2011. Granted the level of development then was probably just high concept ideas. Real development probably didn't start until GTAV shipped in 2013. Probably 2014 is when it formally kicked off and by 2015 much of the world was blocked out for development. The leaked map was probably the final or near final art direction model.

 

It's funny thinking about all the time that has passed and games released. Mafia 3 was announced and released in the same span we've known of RDR2 and people thought it had a tie in. Far Cry 5 had a casting call and film shoot in Montana that people thought was related to RDR2. That game too was announced and released in the span of RDR2 development.

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Decided to go back into more detail with "The Grizzlies (Intro)" as a whole.

4zjYKoW.jpg

 

I definitely feel like there's some changes int he mountain structures from the first trailer. That's why we had such a hard time mapping the "intro" when we got back into it with the 4k Trailer. Everything looked upgraded, down to the rocks in the Heartlands.

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9 minutes ago, DuPz0r said:

Decided to go back into more detail with "The Grizzlies (Intro)" as a whole.

4zjYKoW.jpg

 

I definitely feel like there's some changes int he mountain structures from the first trailer. That's why we had such a hard time mapping the "intro" when we got back into it with the 4k Trailer. Everything looked upgraded, down to the rocks in the Heartlands.


Wait but the main screenshot has a compas pointing north towards Hagen, so Olumpus can't be on its left ? For it to work it should be pointing south / south-east, but the compas thing seems consistent with the bottom left screenshot

Edited by Fachewachewa
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I forgot to mention this in my Annesburg post, but the circles on the minimap that we discussed a few weeks ago are just indicators that it's a railroad. I know someone had that theory around then, but based on the section of the town we got, it know appears to be confirmed.

 

It's strange they didn't go for the typical line with vertical slashes, especially when they're used on that in-game map of St. Denis from the gameplay video.

Edited by zachsterosu
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8 hours ago, BretMaverick777 said:

I'd bet on Jackson Square, the Cabildo, St Louis Cathedral, The Cotton Exchange, Bourbon Street and the Vieux Carré, Union Station, and definitely the infamous Storyville red light district. 

 

The background of that one shot also reminds me of the NOLA Board of Trade, which is now a popular wedding location.

 

Having essentially a replica of New Orleans also lends a nearly infinite number of story and mission opportunities too. Not map related per se, but I could see some Storyville involvement and, after seeing the statue--which HAS to be the Henry Clay monument--just makes me wonder, as a history buff, if R* will touch upon Reconstruction and issues of post-slavery in some story fashion. 

 

 

On 9/17/2018 at 9:27 AM, DuPz0r said:

Nice! So that clears up some of the theories!

 

These postcards are nice! We were right at guessing Strawberry too!

 

Tjo5lRr.jpg

 

 

Any train people out there? What kind of train is this?

 

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What I like about the Mt. Hagen pictures

latest?cb=20180917175915

The picture above looks to be a way station or pack station. These were used to switch out horses on stage coaches.

latest?cb=20180917175915

Based on all the logs looks like this area is a abandoned logging camp.

 

interesting thing about the mountain name.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagen_(legend)

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1 hour ago, zachsterosu said:

I forgot to mention this in my Annesburg post, but the circles on the minimap that we discussed a few weeks ago are just indicators that it's a railroad. I know someone had that theory around then, but based on the section of the town we got, it know appears to be confirmed.

 

It's strange they didn't go for the typical line with vertical slashes, especially when they're used on that in-game map of St. Denis from the gameplay video.

Yeah, I will concede I was wrong about them indicating railway turntables. With the St Denis minimap we also got an indication that double dashed lines may be for street cars/trolleys.

1 hour ago, Mirokunite said:

What I like about the Mt. Hagen pictures

latest?cb=20180917175915

The picture above looks to be a way station or pack station. These were used to switch out horses on stage coaches.

latest?cb=20180917175915

Based on all the logs looks like this area is a abandoned logging camp.

 

interesting thing about the mountain name.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagen_(legend)

I like the idea that I seen somewhere that the mountain may have been named after Landon Ricketts' voice actor Ross Hagen who passed away in 2011.

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10 hours ago, BretMaverick777 said:

I'd bet on Jackson Square, the Cabildo, St Louis Cathedral, The Cotton Exchange, Bourbon Street and the Vieux Carré, Union Station, and definitely the infamous Storyville red light district. 

Here's a website with gobs of reference from NOLA http://www.thepastwhispers.com/Old_New_Orleans

 

 

 

17 hours ago, vKing said:

Wow if your prediction in terms of scaling is correct, then the map we can explore will be absolutely enormous. 

 

18 hours ago, Redhood979 said:

 

That deff puts how big this map actually will be into perspective. Great work man

It should be fairly easy to compare how big Saint Denis is to other Red Dead and GTA towns based on what they use to chop of their game for their engine.

 

Spoiler

87zBLNZ.jpg

 

Edited by alz
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7 minutes ago, alz said:

Here's a website with gobs of reference from NOLA http://www.thepastwhispers.com/Old_New_Orleans

 

 

 

 

It should be fairly easy to compare how big Saint Denis is to other Red Dead and GTA towns based on what they use to chop of their game for their engine.

 

  Hide contents

87zBLNZ.jpg

 

Dunno man. It seems like they upped the scale of the map according to what we have seen.

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2 hours ago, Mirokunite said:

interesting thing about the mountain name.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagen_(legend)

 

Ahhh! Fascinating OK, so from that link...Wagner's opera...

 

"In the opera Götterdämmerung, part of The Ring Cycle, Hagen is portrayed as the half-brother of Gunther and Gutrune, illegitimately fathered by the dwarf Alberich (and so by extension Siegfried's step-cousin). He is similarly depicted as evil and cunning, acting under the influence of his father but for his own interests. He convinces Gunther and Brünnhilde that by marrying Gutrune, Siegfried has committed an act of perjury that justifies his murder, allowing Hagen to claim the ring. When Gunther objects to this claim Hagen kills him (and their sister dies in grief) but is too frightened to take the ring when Siegfried's corpse makes a threatening gesture. Brünnhilde takes the ring and returns it to the Rhinemaidens and Hagen is drowned in the river trying to reclaim it."

 

Now, much of this game seems to have a LOT of English influence and so on, so it might be incongruous to have different ethnic influence perhaps, but imagine if R* put a separate storyline in that kind of borrows from Gotterdammerung! 

 

Although I can appreciate AzBat360's great mention of Ross Hagen too--that would be a nice in-game homage to the man who voiced Landon Ricketts. God, that guy could have read the phone book and I'd have listened to it. 

Edited by TexasOdysseus
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2 hours ago, TexasOdysseus said:

 

The background of that one shot also reminds me of the NOLA Board of Trade, which is now a popular wedding location.

 

Having essentially a replica of New Orleans also lends a nearly infinite number of story and mission opportunities too. Not map related per se, but I could see some Storyville involvement and, after seeing the statue--which HAS to be the Henry Clay monument--just makes me wonder, as a history buff, if R* will touch upon Reconstruction and issues of post-slavery in some story fashion. 

 

 

 

The seeds for those stories are definitely there.  I mean, R* usually uses politics more for satire than seriousness, but I'd be willing to bet the writers have some angles that show the more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

Case in point:  white cop shoots unarmed black man. Blacks protest, whites counter-protest, race war breaks out.   2018?  Nope,1900, in New Orleans.  

 

We might see references to that, just sayin'. 

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14 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

The seeds for those stories are definitely there.  I mean, R* usually uses politics more for satire than seriousness, but I'd be willing to bet the writers have some angles that show the more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

Case in point:  white cop shoots unarmed black man. Blacks protest, whites counter-protest, race war breaks out.   2018?  Nope,1900, in New Orleans.  

 

We might see references to that, just sayin'. 

It wouldn't even be that farfetched: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Charles. After he murdered 7 men(whom 4 police men), there were riots: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Charles_riots. As you said, the more things change, the more they stay the same. 

Edited by NickRooz
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3 hours ago, DuPz0r said:

Decided to go back into more detail with "The Grizzlies (Intro)" as a whole.

4zjYKoW.jpg

 

I definitely feel like there's some changes int he mountain structures from the first trailer. That's why we had such a hard time mapping the "intro" when we got back into it with the 4k Trailer. Everything looked upgraded, down to the rocks in the Heartlands.

kQoAQeo.png

Decided to give a map overlay to better illustrate positions. The white nd purple mountains are outside of the map. The cyan mountains(Valley Peaks) are the northern range of Big Valley(obviously). Arthur's position, however, limits his view of the main part of the Grizzlies. We can see that Mount Hagen is clearly where I marked red, and the smaller mountain with the cabin to it's south is where I marked light green. Colter is hidden behind Mount Hagen from the Big Valley shot.

 

One of the more well-known peaks in the snowy Grizzlies of Ambarino, Mount Hagen towers above Lake Isabella to the west and Beartooth Beck to the east, which provides the main pass through the western mountain range and joins up with the Dakota River further south

 

Lake Isabella is to it's west, and Beartooth Beck appears to either be Colter itself, Granni Pass or the name of the trail running through that area east of Mount Hagen. Regardless, the other mountains to the left of Mount Hagen in the Big Valley shot are very likely not within the map(or at the very least the border in the far north of the Grizzlies to the point where they don't show up on the leaked map). As to whether you marked them correctly, there is no way for me to know for sure.

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4 hours ago, DuPz0r said:

 

Spoiler

4zjYKoW.jpg

 

 

Excellent work. I'm still unsure about the location of the rundown shack behind the horseman, though. The place you have circled in orange on the map seems to be too far back to be the location.

 


01

Spoiler

 

The following two images...it might be easiest to save them both to your pc, open them in your photo viewer, and then toggle back and forth with the arrow keys...that way you control the rate of motion. This helped me get my head around the rate of rotation between the two shots:

z6OLqlW.jpg

hTzN44U.jpg

 

 

02

Spoiler

 

The trick for me, to "see" the rotation, was to focus on what I'm calling the "Pickle and the Lemon" and their relation to Olympus:

BnbT5c3.jpg

 

 

03

Spoiler

 

The next two are HI RES, so you can zoom in more, but not aligned with each other:

9FFqkLU.jpg

3716xvL.jpg

 

 

04

Spoiler

 

Next is a slow gif:

SBAlH8f.gif

 

 

05

Spoiler

 

And finally, a fast gif. Stare at the Pickle and the Lemon as they relate to Olympus, and you start to see the rotation:

NEYRDFd.gif

 

 

I also DARKENED the foreground to better illustrate what is being BLOCKED FROM VIEW from each shot. I'm not exactly sure where that horseman is, but I think he has to be closer to the foreground than where you circled, Dupzor. I believe we can see the area you circled FROM the shot of the horseman:

Spoiler

RFxGZ0J.jpg

 

But, like I said, I'm not sure where to place that shack and horseman.

 

 

 

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On 9/17/2018 at 10:56 AM, DuPz0r said:

That's a great find. Is there any other textures with prefix names from RDR1?

 

Prefixes are used everywhere, considering filenames have a character limit, the terrain ones are cho, die, gap, gre, gri, hen, per, pun and rio. Tall Trees should've been 'tal' in that case. Then building textures from Armadillo start with 'arm' for instance. If you think it will be useful I could dump all the texture names in a txt file, but I doubt it will be very useful.

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Okay...maybe here????

 

@DuPz0r I felt like your spot was too far back...but not WAY too far. Maybe one ridge closer? The underlying rock formation seems to match, although the snow patterns have changed. I can't make out any clear buildings/structures, but there's some...fuzzy stuff in there, haha. If you figure that the postcard image would need to be rotated if that's the same location, it kinda fits. Also, from that vantage point the aqua-outlined peak (to the left of the Pickle & Lemon) would obstruct your view of Olympus partially. IDK...maybe?

 

8twvNgc.gif

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Nice mountain superimposition, CT! Those are definitely the same mountains, the question is, and this pertains to the overall map scale, is at what range? 

 

From Arthur's original vantage point (hard to tell with depth), it appears as if there is a ridge in front of Mt Hagen and the peaks beyond it. Depending on the scale of the map, that could mean he is WAY far away, which means this map, in video game terms, is incredibly large. 

 

BTW, Chinese Takeout, well done. I don't know how you do that, but nice piece of work. Very cool!

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Just a hypothesis:

7gN7vZD.jpg

 

 

 

Canal Street at the end of the 19th century:

 

  1. The clay Monument (already known)
  2. Maison Blanche (already known)
  3. Touro Buildings
  4. Gunenewald's Music Store (it was a part of the Touro Buildings at the beginning, then it had its customized facade,  the bottom right image shows its round roof sign, )
  5. Eugene Robinson's Theatre and museum  (Eugene Robinson looks like Josiah Trelawny by the way)
Edited by koeklin
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Am I the only one that thinks Mount Hagen is named after Landon Rickett's voice actor Ross Hagen in tribute?

Edited by YoungSambo
typo
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4 hours ago, koeklin said:

Just a hypothesis:

7gN7vZD.jpg

 

 

 

Canal Street at the end of the 19th century:

 

  1. The clay Monument (already known)
  2. Maison Blanche (already known)
  3. Touro Buildings
  4. Gunenewald's Music Store (it was a part of the Tour Building in the beginning)
  5. Eugene Robinson's Theatre and museum  (Eugene Robinson looks like Josiah Trelawny by the way)

Very, very good finds. I agree Robinson looks a lot like Trelawny. My first thought of Trelawny upon seeing his artwork and quote was that he would be involved in the art and theatre world in some capacity.

I'm trying to find the building in the RDR 2 shot that is next to the Robinson Theatre, it looks like a another theatre or museum but I haven't cracked the case yet.

Edit:

The smokestack could be based on the New Orleans Mint, now a Jazz Museum, as it originally had a smokestack. It's quite a bit away from Canal Street though.

ccd2a04f-3ef8-4a50-818e-63d0249a30fe-_Se
https://komonews.com/archive/the-new-orleans-mint

Edited by SneakyDeaky
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11 hours ago, AzBat360 said:

/u/CandykillerArt posted this neat map he created of St Denis on Reddit...

 

krdnjfhe30n11.png

 

 

Where would the recent postcards match up on this map?

 

 

 

7 hours ago, koeklin said:

Just a hypothesis:

7gN7vZD.jpg

 

 

 

Canal Street at the end of the 19th century:

 

  1. The clay Monument (already known)
  2. Maison Blanche (already known)
  3. Touro Buildings
  4. Gunenewald's Music Store (it was a part of the Tour Building in the beginning)
  5. Eugene Robinson's Theatre and museum  (Eugene Robinson looks like Josiah Trelawny by the way)

Excellent work!  The Cyan building doesn't appear to match the same facade though

 

If anyone wants a bunch Canal Street reference, here's two albums.  

 

Some samples...

Spoiler

 

29838679417_c5cf86dd28_b.jpg

 

44056261814_f01d6dbafa_b.jpg

 

44775754071_3eaa049f66_z.jpg

 

 

Edited by alz
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5 hours ago, SneakyDeaky said:

Very, very good finds. I agree Robinson looks a lot like Trelawny. My first thought of Trelawny upon seeing his artwork and quote was that he would be involved in the art and theatre world in some capacity.

I'm trying to find the building in the RDR 2 shot that is next to the Robinson Theatre, it looks like a another theatre or museum but I haven't cracked the case yet.

Edit:

The smokestack could be based on the New Orleans Mint, now a Jazz Museum, as it originally had a smokestack. It's quite a bit away from Canal Street though.

ccd2a04f-3ef8-4a50-818e-63d0249a30fe-_Se
https://komonews.com/archive/the-new-orleans-mint

1zdf6Nd.jpg

Could be a sugar refinery.  The Domino's sugar refinery in NO had smokestacks that towered over the city for decades.

 

I think the city's first coal-fired power plant had a huge single stack in that part of town, too.

 

Here's a landmark in the French Qtr on Dauphin, just off Bourbon, that I hope makes its way into the game.

 

w8Qg13Y.jpg

SEf8eqr.jpg

 

The Chateau Lemoyne is 140 yo and the namesake of the founder of New Orleans. Was renovated as a Holiday Inn in the past 2 yrs, and is already reputed to be one of the most haunted hotels in NO. 

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11 hours ago, Jestic said:

 

Prefixes are used everywhere, considering filenames have a character limit, the terrain ones are cho, die, gap, gre, gri, hen, per, pun and rio. Tall Trees should've been 'tal' in that case. Then building textures from Armadillo start with 'arm' for instance. If you think it will be useful I could dump all the texture names in a txt file, but I doubt it will be very useful.

Not necessary unless you spot another prefix that doesn't fit, like gri. 

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