Mapping Red Dead Redemption 2! Landmark Analysis Thread

[tsycho]

Could Amberino be a part of Canada? I mean on the leaked map is a place called "Chez Porter" which is french... Maybe a bit far fetched, but still...

[JustAMetalHead]

Just now, Chinese Takeout said:

It would take WAY more than an extra year if I was doing it by myself. It would probably take about 30 years. The amount of time it takes to do something is relative to the size of the team, resources and level of expertise involved.

 

We aren't able to quantify the resources Rockstar/Take Two have spent on the last few years of development, so I'm not sure how we can quantify the time it would take. That's a level of speculation greater even than guessing that New Austin is in the game, IMO.

I guess, but haven't they been working on this game for 8 years now? (I'm sure a lot of time was put in the concept stage though) 

 

Rockstar likes to take their time to develop, which is a good thing in my opinion.

[AndyGanteks]

Give or take their final shape around places like Little Creek, Mossy Flats and Butcher Creek, this is it region wise, now we gotta find where the newly mentioned areas fit in the map, and where is the god damn desert. Maybe it is that island after all and New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso or a new region simply don't exist.

[Chinese Takeout]

I feel like they just picked a handful of locations to give us a sneak peak. I see no reason to consider today's feature to be an exhaustive list. Just a few of the locales. I'd imagine (or hope) they'll leave some locations as hidden...to be discovered by players as complete surprises as we go through the game.

[SneakyDeaky]

7 minutes ago, paddymcg said:

Okay, my bad, it sounded different in my head.

Hey no worries, sorry if I came across as harsh or something. I was against New Austin being in the game a few months ago. I agree with you that I don't see the gang going to New Austin, but right now there's too much evidence not to speculate. My gut feeling is it could be online only or perhaps just a piece of the New Austin map, like a North Yankton type of deal. But I'm very hopeful for the full map.

[BretMaverick777]

8 minutes ago, JustAMetalHead said:

I feel like recreating all of or even most of new Austin is a really challenging task that this forum doesn't really understand is that easy to do. Not only would Rockstar have to retexture everything and add new paths and new peds with their own lines, they would also have to make it look like New Austin is older. They'd have to make New Austin have story missions, they'd have to add side content and mini games. It'd be a lot of resources used for a map we already have seen before.

 

The fact that they haven't really shown a town for any place that looks kind of like a desert, makes me feel like the desert is actually a lot smaller than we think it is. 

Who says they're recreating all of/even most of New Austin?

Who says they haven't added new features/regions to New Austin?

 

The so-far 100% accurate reddit leak said Armadillo and Ridgewood are coming back.  Didn't say anything else about New Austin.

We've seen that Thieves' Landing was an afterthought on the leaked RDR2 map.

 

In RDR2, they're likely building New Austin from the ground up, not trying to port a pixel for pixel redraw of the state we saw in RDR1. 

Armadillo is gonna be different.  Ridgewood is gonna be different.  Del Lobo Rock is likely to be in there (the hacienda hideout), and likely to be different.  Thieves Landing is gonna be different.  Bet that Tumbleweed will be in it, and RADICALLY different -- a fully functioning town, not a ghost town.  If the Macfarlane ranch is in it (and why not?), bet that it, too, will be (say it with me y'all) ...different.

 

Nobody wants to see the same ole same ole.  Trust, R* understands that.  So they're obviously going to redesign New Austin to be something different.  Just like West Elizabeth, it could be considerably larger than the state we played in 8 years ago. 

 

New Austin's place in Arthur's storyline is most likely about the expansion of the railroad west, likely driven by the robber baron, Leviticus Cornwall.  As we see the railroad come to West Elizabeth, and Blackwater rapidly modernize accordingly, we'll then see Cornwall push even farther west, into New Austin.  It's necessary for him to get the rails to Plainview, to reach rich new oilfields.   A lot of the backstory of New Austin in RDR1 revolved around the railroad choosing to use Armadillo as a rail hub instead of Tumbleweed.   We'll probably see that here, and see why Cornwall picked Armadillo and left Tumbleweed to rot.  And most of this will probably be after 1906.   John leaves the gang, builds his ranch at Beecher's Hope.  Arthur and Dutch's Gang keeps on outlawing.  New Austin unlocks, WITHOUT the Marstons' presence.  Timeline still intact, no?  

 

Have faith.  

[AndyGanteks]

Anyone noticed a canoe with a person inside?

 

I think we might be looking towards south east from Lagres and i like how cleverly they used fog to hide what is there.

[Chinese Takeout]

8 minutes ago, AndyGanteks said:

Give or take their final shape around places like Little Creek, Mossy Flats and Butcher Creek, this is it region wise, now we gotta find where the newly mentioned areas fit in the map, and where is the god damn desert. Maybe it is that island after all and New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso or a new region simply don't exist.

Yeah, in my mind, this was the one placeholder map that most closely resembles what the final map is going to be (not including any section that might still be unrevealed, like Mexico, of course)

[BretMaverick777]

10 minutes ago, tsycho said:

Could Amberino be a part of Canada? I mean on the leaked map is a place called "Chez Porter" which is french... Maybe a bit far fetched, but still...

Ambarino sounds like Alberta.

CALLED IT! 

[Chinese Takeout]

13 minutes ago, tsycho said:

Could Amberino be a part of Canada? I mean on the leaked map is a place called "Chez Porter" which is french... Maybe a bit far fetched, but still...

BY THE WAY....you just reminded me of something I meant to come back in here and post, haha...

 

Any remote chance that "Chez Porter" is one of Rockstar's goofy references? In this case to:

 

 

I mean, nothing about the lyrics of the song have anything to do with a high mountain pass...it's just an American Railroad song. But still...that name! hahaha

[JustAMetalHead]

Just now, BretMaverick777 said:

Who says they're recreating all of/even most of New Austin?

Who says they haven't added new features/regions to New Austin?

 

The so-far 100% accurate reddit leak said Armadillo and Ridgewood are coming back.  Didn't say anything else about New Austin.

We've seen that Thieves' Landing was an afterthought on the leaked RDR2 map.

 

If you're gonna go all the way to Armadillo and Ridgewood, you would've included a large part of New Austin, which is what I'm saying.

 

Just now, BretMaverick777 said:

In RDR2, they're likely building New Austin from the ground up, not trying to port a pixel for pixel redraw of the state we saw in RDR1. 

Armadillo is gonna be different.  Ridgewood is gonna be different.  Del Lobo Rock is likely to be in there (the hacienda hideout), and likely to be different.  Thieves Landing is gonna be different.  Bet that Tumbleweed will be in it, and RADICALLY different -- a fully functioning town, not a ghost town.  If the Macfarlane ranch is in it (and why not?), bet that it, too, will be (say it with me y'all) ...different.

This sort of proves my point though, a LOT of resources are gonna go into creating this part of the map. Even if it's different, it's still a map we've already seen. They probably won't change the land and geography that much, although I wouldn't be surprised if it was a little different.

 

 

2 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

New Austin's place in Arthur's storyline is most likely about the expansion of the railroad west, likely driven by the robber baron, Leviticus Cornwall.  As we see the railroad come to West Elizabeth, and Blackwater rapidly modernize accordingly, we'll then see Cornwall push even farther west, into New Austin.  It's necessary for him to get the rails to Plainview, to reach rich new oilfields.   A lot of the backstory of New Austin in RDR1 revolved around the railroad choosing to use Armadillo as a rail hub instead of Tumbleweed.   We'll probably see that here, and see why Cornwall picked Armadillo and left Tumbleweed to rot.  And most of this will probably be after 1906.   John leaves the gang, builds his ranch at Beecher's Hope.  Arthur and Dutch's Gang keeps on outlawing.  New Austin unlocks, WITHOUT the Marstons' presence.  Timeline still intact, no?  

 

Have faith.  

I never said that they couldn't have a story set in New Austin because of John Marston not going there himself. My main argument is that it would take a long time and a lot of resources to implement this, and I feel like if we were to have a massive bit of the story set in New Austin they would have at least confirmed it being playable because I'm sure that would be good marketing for Rockstar.

[Chinese Takeout]

Also...Bret called this a couple months ago, and I altered a version of the map to reflect that, haha. I would LOVE if Canada/Yukon somehow figured into the game...

 

Spoiler

 

[Stakoman]

You guys think this is the same church (top rigth)?

 

 

 

[DuPz0r]

We know it's Strawberry, no surprise, but we can still orientate ourselves.

[BretMaverick777]

Worth's name over the Valentine stockyard, too.   "Davidson Worth?"  "____ Yard?"  Doesn't look like that word on the banner is "Stock." 

 

Either way, Worth pretty much owns Valentine, doesn't he?

[mark84g5]

5 minutes ago, Stakoman said:

You guys think this is the same church (top rigth)?

 

 

 

It just might!

[INFERNO E100]

5 minutes ago, Stakoman said:

You guys think this is the same church (top rigth)?

 

 

 

that ranch has been locked in as valentine for like six weeks

and the church in valentine even longer


zero doubts mate

[Stakoman]

10 minutes ago, INFERNO E100 said:

that ranch has been locked in as valentine for like six weeks

and the church in valentine even longer


zero doubts mate

 

 

hoo nice! sorry about that 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Stakoman

[tsycho]

3 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

Worth's name over the Valentine stockyard, too.   "Davidson Worth?"  "____ Yard?"  Doesn't look like that word on the banner is "Stock." 

 

Either way, Worth pretty much owns Valentine, doesn't he?

I think it's "AUCTION YARD".

[BretMaverick777]

7 minutes ago, JustAMetalHead said:

If you're gonna go all the way to Armadillo and Ridgewood, you would've included a large part of New Austin, which is what I'm saying.

 

This sort of proves my point though, a LOT of resources are gonna go into creating this part of the map. Even if it's different, it's still a map we've already seen. They probably won't change the land and geography that much, although I wouldn't be surprised if it was a little different.

Like they didn't change the land and geography of West Elizabeth...?  Hell, they added an entirely new region, a big one.  We've already seen changes to Blackwater, and we don't even know what the differences to Beecher's Hope and Cochinay are gonna be.  According to the reddit leak, Beecher's Hope won't even exist until John Marston builds it from scratch in 1906.   Cochinay is likely a mining camp operated by white folks, under a different name, long before Dutch drags his Apaches up there.   And what about Manzanita Post?   Pacific Union Railroad Camp isn't even on the map yet. 

 

This is not your grandpappy's New Austin.   And they've probably been working on it for as long as they've been working on RDR2.  They know that there would be a demand, both by the fans and by the story, to weave the RDR1 and RDR2 storylines together.  And trust, the next question on everybody's mind is gonna be "where's Nuevo Paraiso?"   I strongly doubt they're going to put 2/3 of the RDR1 map in there and leave out Mexico. 

4 minutes ago, tsycho said:

I think it's "AUCTION YARD".

Points.  +1

I believe you're right.

[JustAMetalHead]

Just now, BretMaverick777 said:

Like they didn't change the land and geography of West Elizabeth...?  Hell, they added an entirely new region, a big one.  We've already seen changes to Blackwater, and we don't even know what the differences to Beecher's Hope and Cochinay are gonna be.  According to the reddit leak, Beecher's Hope won't even exist until John Marston builds it from scratch in 1906.   Cochinay is likely a mining camp operated by white folks, under a different name, long before Dutch drags his Apaches up there.   And what about Manzanita Post?   Pacific Union Railroad Camp isn't even on the map yet. 

 

This is not your grandpappy's New Austin.   And they've probably been working on it for as long as they've been working on RDR2.  They know that there would be a demand, both by the fans and by the story, to weave the RDR1 and RDR2 storylines together.  And trust, the next question on everybody's mind is gonna be "where's Nuevo Paraiso?"   I strongly doubt they're going to put 2/3 of the RDR1 map in there and leave out Mexico. 

Did they change the land and geography of West Elizabeth? It looks pretty similar to me, the scale looks bigger but that's probably more to do with draw distance and camera angles than straight up new landmass.

 

I also didn't say that it was impossible for them to change the RDR1 map anyways, I said I wouldn't even be surprised if they did. I also feel like this game is already large enough and really diverse, considering the fact that we will mainly be on horse and on foot (and maybe even on boats) I feel like traveling around this map will be a nightmare and we would definitely rely too much on fast traveling.

 

 

[AndyGanteks]

"One of the more well-known peaks in the snowy Grizzlies of Ambarino, Mount Hagen towers above Lake Isabella to the west and Beartooth Beck to the east, which provides the main pass through the western mountain range and joins up with the Dakota River further south."

 

Anyone see "lake?" written here, just on the border. So if this is Lake Isabella

https://www.rockstargames.com/reddeadredemption2/dist/img/global/features/locations/a16c122f9790d226f484ba208205fc33.jpg

Arthur in this picture may be heading down the mountain towards it to the left. See if we can maybe match the mountain range to the one in the Valentine screenshot, i think this could be the location. https://www.rockstargames.com/reddeadredemption2/dist/img/global/features/locations/5b4d93ba9182bdb33fb56ba33543dc66.jpg

[e1999KrayzieBone]

I'm guessing there are two main regions to the map: The Frontier and The West. The West is what they've wanted to remain a mystery, at least for now, and will contain at least New Austin. Since New Austin has been the fifth and final state mentioned thus far, I don't think there will be a sixth, but I do hold out hope that Mexico is represented in "The West" region in some fashion. 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by e1999KrayzieBone

[Chinese Takeout]

16 minutes ago, tsycho said:

I think it's "AUCTION YARD".

haha, you beat me to it while I was screwing around in photoshop!

 

[BretMaverick777]

50 minutes ago, DuPz0r said:

Wait is Beartooth Beck the name of the peak or the whole range of peaks behind i wonder?

Let me step back and regroup for a minute.

What if "Beck" isn't a mountain, but a river? 

Checking the definition of it, "beck" is a British dialectical of a "stream or creek."  

We know there's an unmarked stream that runs down to the Dakota River just above Cumberland Falls.   It's marked on the leaked map as the dividing line between "Grizzlies Intro" and "Grizzlies" proper.   This is one of those rare occasions where a regional border is also a natural one.   In this case, I believe that creek is called "Beartooth Beck." 

The mountain in the post card is, of course, Mt. Hagen itself.

Although....it would make sense for the mountain in the background to be named Beartooth as well, from its shape.   So...Beartooth Beck is the creek that runs down the hollow separating Beartooth Mountain and Mt. Hagen, maybe? 

[SneakyDeaky]

7 minutes ago, AndyGanteks said:

"One of the more well-known peaks in the snowy Grizzlies of Ambarino, Mount Hagen towers above Lake Isabella to the west and Beartooth Beck to the east, which provides the main pass through the western mountain range and joins up with the Dakota River further south."

 

Anyone see "lake?" written here, just on the border. So if this is Lake Isabella

https://www.rockstargames.com/reddeadredemption2/dist/img/global/features/locations/a16c122f9790d226f484ba208205fc33.jpg

Arthur in this picture may be heading down the mountain towards it to the left. See if we can maybe match the mountain range to the one in the Valentine screenshot, i think this could be the location. https://www.rockstargames.com/reddeadredemption2/dist/img/global/features/locations/5b4d93ba9182bdb33fb56ba33543dc66.jpg

If that's right then that could be Adler Ranch right there? Doesn't look much of a ranch though...

[albinobuffalo96]

39 minutes ago, tsycho said:

Could Amberino be a part of Canada? I mean on the leaked map is a place called "Chez Porter" which is french... Maybe a bit far fetched, but still...

I really doubt this tbh. That would mean from Mexico to Canada, America is only like 4 miles wide, which is too unrealistic even for R*s standards. 

In everything we've seen so far, they've been treating it like an American state and I doubt they would give a Canadian province a Spanish sounding name. 

 

I'm pretty convinced after today that West Elizabeth is Colorado (which we already knew) and Ambarino, despite having a more similar name to Colorado is actually mostly modeled after Wyoming. That shot of the mountain looks pretty Teton-like an it would make since given its position to WE and New Hanover, which we know is at least partly Nebraska. 

 

Wyoming has a ton of French place names like the Grand Tetons, Dubois, Sinclair, etc.

[INFERNO E100]

9 minutes ago, e1999KrayzieBone said:

I'm guessing there are two main regions to the map: The Frontier and The West. The West is what they've wanted to remain a mystery, at least for now, and will contain at least New Austin. Since New Austin has been the fifth and final state mentioned thus far, I don't think there will be a sixth, but I do hold out hope that Mexico is represented in "The West" region in some fashion. 

 

 

 in RDR the map was labelled western border states and included west elizabeth which rdr2 does too 

[Drummer98]

6 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

Let me step back and regroup for a minute.

What if "Beck" isn't a mountain, but a river? 

Checking the definition of it, "beck" is a British dialectical of a "stream or creek."  

We know there's an unmarked stream that runs down to the Dakota River just above Cumberland Falls.   It's marked on the leaked map as the dividing line between "Grizzlies Intro" and "Grizzlies" proper.   This is one of those rare occasions where a regional border is also a natural one.   In this case, I believe that creek is called "Beartooth Beck." 

The mountain in the post card is, of course, Mt. Hagen itself.

Although....it would make sense for the mountain in the background to be named Beartooth as well, from its shape.   So...Beartooth Beck is the creek that runs down the hollow separating Beartooth Mountain and Mt. Hagen, maybe? 

Yeah, I think you got it right cause I’m Italian and on the Italian official site it says “il torrente Beartooth” which translates in “the Beartooth stream”.

[AndyGanteks]

Just now, SneakyDeaky said:

If that's right then that could be Adler Ranch right there? Doesn't look much of a ranch though...

Nah that's definitely not the ranch, probably just a random shack. This picture may be taken between the Adler ranch to the left and down and "Colter" or that pass to the right of the little cabin.

There seems to be quite a few of the orange trail behind the purple big text "The Grizzlies" which covers it, i'm trying to pinpoint the possible road to match the picture.

 

Lake itself could also be the body of water between Colter and Chez Porter, 2 ones further up just don't seem west enough to have something as important to the east of it. And the little blue dot next to COlter, that's just too small for a lake, think we shouldn't consider it.