Mapping Red Dead Redemption 2! Landmark Analysis Thread

[koeklin]

5 hours ago, Little Big Man said:

You guys might want to check out Interview With A Vampire - It's partially set in 19th century New Orleans.

DLC Vampires confirmed! 

 

It's maybe a film reference in RDR2 because it is the same plantation house in the film and the game

 

 

I have already written two times about Oak Alley Plantation in this topic: the mansion (in 2017) and  its oak alley (few days ago)

Edited September 16, 2018 by koeklin

[AzBat360]

11 hours ago, Little Big Man said:

Purple = border lines, blue = water. I think we established this back on page 1.

Yes but that area is a bit ambiguous. There is some purple but blue too. The east side of the line lacks purple. So it's a confusing spot. You're more than likely to be right but of the other caravan spots on the leaked map I feel Shady Belle fits the best. It could be Newberry Creek & they moved the placement. Beaver Hollow just looks too far up the river for me.

[Little Big Man]

2 hours ago, Chinese Takeout said:

I mentioned this movie way back in this or another thread...I totally consider that film to be a western, at least partially. Theres no question that it intersects the genre.

Vampires are all about the human cattle. They're basically ranchers.

[BretMaverick777]

3 hours ago, koeklin said:

DLC Vampires confirmed! 

 

It's maybe a film reference in RDR2 because it is the same plantation house in the film and the game

 

 

I have already written two times about Oak Alley Plantation in this topic: the mansion (in 2017) and  its oak alley (few days ago)

Oak Alley has been in other famous movies too.  The Blue and The Gray miniseries, maybe Django Unchained also.

[Chinese Takeout]

8 hours ago, Nyfyr said:

If the Grizzlies was in Ambarino, wouldn’t they have said so in that Wanted Poster of Dutch? Just like how they confirmed Big valley is in West Elisabeth. Instead, it’s just The Grizzlies.

They would have said that if Dutch entered the Grizzlies via Ambarino, but he didn't. He entered the Grizzlies via the Big Valley section of West Elizabeth. If he had entered the Grizzlies from New Hanover, I suppose the wanted poster would have said that, too, but apparently it was from West Elizabeth...which makes sense if the original robbery takes place in Blackwater, which the poster says it did.

 

8 hours ago, BretMaverick777 said:

Yeah, that's my thinking as well.  The phrasing on Dutch's wanted poster pretty much solidifies West Elizabeth as Great Plains, Tall Trees, Big Valley, and The Grizzlies.  Ambarino is somewhere else, and Ambarino is Mexican-influenced.  My only question is whether or not it's still a Mexican province, or a former one.  

IDK, I still don't see it that way. To me, the phrasing on Dutch's wanted poster solidifies the fact that The Grizzlies extends through West Elizabeth, and is not CONTAINED BY West Elizabeth. It says, 

Quote

"Last seen heading north into the GRIZZLIES from BIG VALLEY, West Elizabeth."

<INTO> the Grizzlies <FROM> BV, WE. There are many ways into and out of the Grizzlies mountain range...these guys entered into the range from the general location of Big Valley, which is in West Elizabeth. I would agree with you if the poster read: "...into the Grizzlies, Big Valley, West Elizabeth." Similar to saying "meet me in Central Park, New York City, NY." As it stands, it seems to me that it merely confirms that 1) Big Valley is a part of West Elizabeth, 2) The Grizzlies extend through that area, and 3) Dutch and company went that-a-way, up into the Grizzlies. And I don't know how Ambarino figures into this discussion at all.

 

At any rate, we've seen since the original trailer, and through all the subsequent videos and screens that The Grizzlies extend across the entire northern section of the map, irrespective of where Ambarino ends up being:

Edited September 16, 2018 by Chinese Takeout

[Nyfyr]

If we look at the leaked map, maybe the ‘intro’ part of the Grizzlies (in white) is a part of West Elisabeth, and the grey part is New Hanover.

[Chinese Takeout]

4 minutes ago, Nyfyr said:

If we look at the leaked map, maybe the ‘intro’ part of the Grizzlies (in white) is a part of West Elisabeth, and the grey part is New Hanover.

Yeah, I think that's certainly possible. So far we don't have any confirmation of which states run across the northern border of the map. Heck...West Elizabeth could run the entire northern length of the map. I can't wait to find out how the 5 states are distributed across the map.

[Nyfyr]

2 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

Yeah, I think that's certainly possible. So far we don't have any confirmation of which states run across the northern border of the map. Heck...West Elizabeth could run the entire northern length of the map. I can't wait to find out how the 5 states are distributed across the map.

West Elisabeth would look really weird if it has all of the Grizzlies. Dunno, the map would look better if New Hanover either had half or all of the Grizzlies to me. Yeah it will be cool to finally see the full map when the game comes out, inclouding the part of The Grizzlies far north that we can’t see in the leaked version. I also hope Ambarino is its own part that we haven’t seen yet, just like New Austin is.

[BretMaverick777]

36 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

 

IDK, I still don't see it that way. To me, the phrasing on Dutch's wanted poster solidifies the fact that The Grizzlies extends through West Elizabeth, and is not CONTAINED BY West Elizabeth. It says, 

<INTO> the Grizzlies <FROM> BV, WE. There are many ways into and out of the Grizzlies mountain range...these guys entered into the range from the general location of Big Valley, which is in West Elizabeth. I would agree with you if the poster read: "...into the Grizzlies, Big Valley, West Elizabeth." Similar to saying "meet me in Central Park, New York City, NY." As it stands, it seems to me that it merely confirms that 1) Big Valley is a part of West Elizabeth, 2) The Grizzlies extend through that area, and 3) Dutch and company went that-a-way, up into the Grizzlies. And I don't know how Ambarino figures into this discussion at all.

 

It enters the discussion simply because if the theory that the Grizzlies are Ambarino/part of Ambarino is true, the wanted poster would have alluded to that in the same way that it alluded to Big Valley being part of West Elizabeth.  TBH, the wanted poster's syntax is guilty of some awkward TMI....it's like saying "the gang were last seen in The Panhandle, Texas."  We don't generally describe regions within a state as some sort of separate geographical location; but RDR does.   So by the same token, there would have been reference to "The Grizzlies, Ambarino," if they *were* in Ambarino. 

 

The Grizzlies are simply too wild and too unincorporated and too unsettled to logically be considered part of a given state, let alone its own state.   There's just no civilization there, period.  No roads; just mountain trails that are gonna be hard as hell to navigate....probably by foot, leading our horses rather than riding them.  One rail line that looks like it's just an express that pushes across Bacchus Bridge and thru Granite Pass before getting the hell out into more civilized pastures.   There's no indications of any junctions or stops for that express anywhere...just a Dakota River bypass.  (Guess it was cheaper to blast thru the mountains than cut thru the Cumberland Forest.) No towns at all.  No visible settlements.   Without that, what kind of economy would the Grizzlies have?   I suspect the main reason we'll travel to the Grizzlies at all is to prospect for gold, silver, and gemstones, the old-fashioned way; and to hunt and fish the rarer breeds.   That, and to have a legitimate hidey hole from the law.   (Note that the posse in the wanted poster didn't dare pursue Dutch's Gang any further than Big Valley.  They know better than that.)   How, and why, would an utterly wild and uncivilized high mountain region like The Grizzlies qualify for statehood?   Uncle Sam wouldn't want any part of that savage land.

Edited September 16, 2018 by BretMaverick777

[letsgoraptors]

37 minutes ago, Chinese Takeout said:

They would have said that if Dutch entered the Grizzlies via Ambarino, but he didn't. He entered the Grizzlies via the Big Valley section of West Elizabeth. If he had entered the Grizzlies from New Hanover, I suppose the wanted poster would have said that, too, but apparently it was from West Elizabeth...which makes sense if the original robbery takes place in Blackwater, which the poster says it did.

 

IDK, I still don't see it that way. To me, the phrasing on Dutch's wanted poster solidifies the fact that The Grizzlies extends through West Elizabeth, and is not CONTAINED BY West Elizabeth. It says, 

<INTO> the Grizzlies <FROM> BV, WE. There are many ways into and out of the Grizzlies mountain range...these guys entered into the range from the general location of Big Valley, which is in West Elizabeth. I would agree with you if the poster read: "...into the Grizzlies, Big Valley, West Elizabeth." Similar to saying "meet me in Central Park, New York City, NY." As it stands, it seems to me that it merely confirms that 1) Big Valley is a part of West Elizabeth, 2) The Grizzlies extend through that area, and 3) Dutch and company went that-a-way, up into the Grizzlies. And I don't know how Ambarino figures into this discussion at all.

 

At any rate, we've seen since the original trailer, and through all the subsequent videos and screens that The Grizzlies extend across the entire northern section of the map, irrespective of where Ambarino ends up being:

Wow. Looking at that map with the grizzlies cutting right across to New Austin just gave me an idea: 

 

If Amborino IS Colorado and is also north of new Austin, then that would make sense. 

 

Since The rocky mountains (hear grizzlies) do go all the way down through Colorado to skim New Mexico.

 

Based on this I'd also theorize that the game begins out in the desert with the gang being chased into the mountains.

 

any thoughts?

Edited September 16, 2018 by letsgoraptors

[Chinese Takeout]

1 minute ago, Nyfyr said:

West Elisabeth would look really weird if it has all of the Grizzlies. Dunno, the map would look better if New Hanover either had half or all of the Grizzlies to me. Yeah it will be cool to finally see the full map when the game comes out, inclouding the part of The Grizzlies far north that we can’t see in the leaked version. I also hope Ambarino is its own part that we haven’t seen yet, just like New Austin is.

Well, we know New Hanover can't have ALL of the Grizzlies, because we know at least some of them reside in West Elizabeth. But, yeah, I don't think W.E. runs all across the top. (I also don't KNOW that it doesn't, lol)

Yeah, IDK, I kinda feel like we're all saying similar things. The bottom line for me, I guess, can be summed up like this:

1. What are The Grizzlies?
   1. A range of mountains
2. Where are the Grizzlies?
   1. They run across the top of the map
3. What states do they run through?
   1. Don't know, except at least part of them are in West Elizabeth
4. Where the hell is Ambarino?
   1. No clue
5. When will we find out?
   1. Not later than 10/26/18 (I hope).

[Dick Justice]

@JesticI believe an NPC says something along the lines of "I would love to explore the Grizzlies" while sitting around a campfire. I haven't personally heard it to confirm, but it's something I've seen mentioned here and on Reddit a few times. 

 

 

[Rykane]

14 hours ago, INFERNO E100 said:

It's amazing people can't see the difference.

 

Even in areas where the boarder and river cross you can see the river under the purple boarder. Like how bad are your monitors that they blend into one shade!

 

Evan on that recoloured map they got it wrong and created an island near saltwater stand

Some of us are colourblind, I have a hard time differentiating certain colours from each other such as blue/purple. So I understand why some people might be confused.

 

[Chinese Takeout]

37 minutes ago, Dick Justice said:

@JesticI believe an NPC says something along the lines of "I would love to explore the Grizzlies" while sitting around a campfire. I haven't personally heard it to confirm, but it's something I've seen mentioned here and on Reddit a few times. 

 

 

If that's true, nobody has added that in information to the Red Dead wiki, as far as I could see, which is odd.

[BretMaverick777]

1 hour ago, Jestic said:

The name 'the Grizzlies' was never known before the leaked map right?

 

When that Dutch Wanted posted came out 2 weeks ago the programmer from the canceled RDRV project pointed out how the 'Grizzlies' is actually referenced in the RDR files.

The textures that are used in the Tall Tree area are abbreviated with the letters 'gri'. (Cholla Springs is 'cho' for instance and 'die' for Diez Coronas etc.)

 

That means that Rockstar already had the name 'Grizzlies' in mind way back during development of the first RDR? Any theories on this? Did they rename it to Tall Trees?

 

I've had these textures saved for ages, just never paid attention to the names.

Fascinating.

It makes sense, but we can now safely say that Cochinay, Nekoti Rock, and the other mountains in Tall Trees are officially part of the Grizzly range. Which should also by extension apply to the ridges in Big Valley. 

 

Thanks for the info....I learned something new. ☺

[The Nefarious]

Do you guys think maybe.. just maybe there's a possibility we might get a gameplay video outlining the different territories like with Mafia III??

[Little Big Man]

Unlikely... it's not what the average consumer is looking for.

[DuPz0r]

9 hours ago, Jestic said:

The name 'the Grizzlies' was never known before the leaked map right?

 

When that Dutch Wanted posted came out 2 weeks ago the programmer from the canceled RDRV project pointed out how the 'Grizzlies' is actually referenced in the RDR files.

The textures that are used in the Tall Tree area are abbreviated with the letters 'gri'. (Cholla Springs is 'cho' for instance and 'die' for Diez Coronas etc.)

 

That means that Rockstar already had the name 'Grizzlies' in mind way back during development of the first RDR? Any theories on this? Did they rename it to Tall Trees?

 

I've had these textures saved for ages, just never paid attention to the names.

 

That's a great find. Is there any other textures with prefix names from RDR1?

[BretMaverick777]

14 hours ago, Chinese Takeout said:

Well, we know New Hanover can't have ALL of the Grizzlies, because we know at least some of them reside in West Elizabeth. But, yeah, I don't think W.E. runs all across the top. (I also don't KNOW that it doesn't, lol)

Yeah, IDK, I kinda feel like we're all saying similar things. The bottom line for me, I guess, can be summed up like this:

1. What are The Grizzlies?
   1. A range of mountains
2. Where are the Grizzlies?
   1. They run across the top of the map
3. What states do they run through?
   1. Don't know, except at least part of them are in West Elizabeth
4. Where the hell is Ambarino?
   1. No clue
5. When will we find out?
   1. Not later than 10/26/18 (I hope).

Thanks to that knowledge injection about the RDR1 Tall Trees textures being labelled "gri" for Grizzlies, we now know that even the mountains in Tall Trees in RDR1 (Cochinay, Nekoti Rock) were intended to be part of the Grizzlies as well.   So we can safely say that pretty much EVERY mountain you see on the leaked RDR2 map is part of an unbroken Grizzlies range, which extends well outside the borders of that map also.  So Tall Trees, Big Valley, upper Cumberland, upper Roanoke, not to mention obvi "The Grizzlies" themselves.....are The Grizzlies.  

 

That indicates to me that it's been a mistake all along for us to even try to interpret "The Grizzlies" and "The Grizzlies Intro" as some sort of political region (i.e., state).  ALL of the mountains are The Grizzlies.  And yes, you're absolutely right that they extend through different states, including West Elizabeth, New Hanover, and Lemoyne.  That's why separating just the two Grizzlies regions (Grizzlies and Grizzlies Intro) into an entirely self-contained state (with no visible infrastructure, economy, or even civilization) called Ambarino makes even LESS sense.   Ambarino has nothing to do with the Grizzlies, guaranteed:  it IS the desert.  It's just either the Desert Southwest of the USA, or it's in Mexico.  Either way, Ambarino is a new map, guaranteed. 

 

In terms of political divisions, I think this map makes a lot more sense.

The (literal) gray areas of The Grizzlies would be claimed by West Elizabeth, as pretty much everything north of the Dakota River.  Thus, Great Plains, Tall Trees, Big Valley, and Grizzlies plus Grizzlies Intro.

New Hanover would be The Heartlands and Cumberland Forest.

Lemoyne would be the South.  Culturally speaking, there's just no separating Scarlett Meadows, Bayou Nwa, and Roanoke Ridge.  (And Bluegill Marsh, but imho, that hardly constitutes a separate region anyway.  But it's whatever.)

New Austin is New Austin.

Nuevo Paraiso, which may or may not make a comeback in RDR2, is in Mexico, of course.

That leaves Ambarino to be either the brownout area west of the RDR2 map, or the brownout area south of the RDR2 map.  It just depends on how literal Rockstar wants to be about "five States"....if it's truly an American state, then Ambarino will be to the west.  Otherwise, look for Ambarino to be a brand new Mexican region. 

Either way, that gives us a whole new region to explore, and a much bigger RDR2 map overall.  And isn't that a good thing, people?  

[SeniorDerp]

What are the chances the "small" map at the top of the leaked map is a full state, possibly Amborino?

[BretMaverick777]

6 minutes ago, SeniorDerp said:

What are the chances the "small" map at the top of the leaked map is a full state, possibly Amborino?

I wouldn't bet on it.   They produce rum there, which almost certainly makes it a Caribbean island, as a lot of folks had already suspected.  The Cinco Torres rum bottle seen in Worth's General Store also seems to indicate the island is named Guarma.  

[BretMaverick777]

https://www.rockstargames.com/reddeadredemption2/features/frontiercitiesandtowns

 

Holy crap, y'all.

DIG IN.

[nubcaker]

Grizzlies is in Ambarino!!! Props to everyone who called it!

[Chekoloco]

C´mon boys, more info and images to work on those nice maps!!!

[BretMaverick777]

2 minutes ago, nubcaker said:

Grizzlies is in Ambarino!!! Props to everyone who called it!

Yep.

 

Some more mtns in the Grizzlies named:  Mt. Hagen, Beartooth Beck, Lake Isabella.

St. Denis is BEAUTIFUL.   Shootouts on streetcars?!

Roanoke Ridge officially belongs to New Hanover. 

Rhodes has a family feud:  Braithwaites vs. Grays.

TRACKERS Hotel in Strawberry....yep, that was Strawberry.

 

Still no clues about the desert.

No info/shots from New Austin.

 

But a new gold mine of info here!   Check it out.

[vKing]

4 minutes ago, nubcaker said:

Grizzlies is in Ambarino!!! Props to everyone who called it!

Holy sh*t, i was like 100% sure Grizzlies was not in Ambarino but i didn't say anything because i didn't want to get publicly lynched lmao

 

Props to the guys that got it right though. 

[BretMaverick777]

Preliminary take on Mt. Hagen:  

I *think* it's the one we've been calling "Olympus" on Dupzor's map.   Which makes the lake Isabella, and "Tepee" Beartooth Beck...?   I dunno, @DuPz0r, whaddya estimate?

[Non Funkable Token]

So, we're gonna side with the Grays, and burn down Braithwaite Manor at some point, huh?

[BretMaverick777]

3 minutes ago, vKing said:

Holy sh*t, i was like 100% sure Grizzlies was not in Ambarino but i didn't say anything because i didn't want to get publicly lynched lmao

 

Props to the guys that got it right though. 

Can't say I'm not disappointed that there may not be a brand new region....jury's still out. 

But at least there's signs of some kind of civilization in The Grizzlies now.  And it'll be interesting to see if Ambarino has other regions BESIDES The Grizzlies.  

[Mr Fyn666]

Big shout out to all the "Reverse psychology outlaws

 

IT WORKED GOD DAMMIT...

 

Yeehaaaaawwww 

Big shout out to all the "Reverse psychology outlaws

 

IT WORKED GOD DAMMIT...

 

Yeehaaaaawwww

 

Edit..... Wring thread but we'll done yo the mapping out laws....