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Mapping Red Dead Redemption 2! Landmark Analysis Thread

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1 hour ago, Peck R. Wood said:

With R* focus on the end of the Outlaw Era and with the inclusion of a large metropolitan area based on St. Louis (given its name) and New Orleans (given its surrounding) I was wondering if they will show some glimpses of the very next chapter of Crime in America: the Mafia.


Before you hammer me down, I’m not saying that I want RDRII to become Mafia 4 (or 0), absolutely not. Matter of fact, I’m not even a fan of that franchise.

RDRII is going to be a Western game and that’s why we all love it.


All I’m saying is that, since R* tends to be quite detailed and accurate in its depiction of places and times (Chinese immigrants in RDR1, for ex.) I wouldn’t be surprised if we’ll get some references (not necessarily big plot narratives or major characters) to the new wave of gangsterism that will take the reigns of American crime for several generations and replace rugged Frontiersmen and Outlaws as examples of the violent extremes of the American Dream.


The early stages of the Mob in the New World were set up in New Orleans. The Black Hand was one of Nola’s most feared and rampant criminal subcultures. It led to the New Orleans lynchings and it morphed into a more structured Mafia family even before Prohibition.


Between the 1830s and the 1860s New Orleans boasted the largest Sicilian/Italian population outside of the Italian peninsula. Italy's wasn't united as a nation until 1861, so until then Sicilians were considered a distinct nationality. The French Quarter was known during those decades as "Little Sicily". St. Louis has had a huge Italian population since the 1850s (mostly Northern Italians) and by the beginning of the 20th century Southerns outnumbered the previous waves.

All this trivia just to point out that it wouldn't be historically inaccurate. 


This would perfectly fit into the whole "end of an era...beginning of another" vibe. It would also show that no matter how though Government forces try to prevent crime and eradicate "savages" there will always be a newer breed of lawbreakers filling the void and taking over, sometimes even worst and more organized than its predecessors.

Similarly to what happened to the Mafia in the 1980s and 1990s.


To tell a long story short, It would be neat if St. Denis will feature a small Italian district where we'll be able to clash with right-off-the-boat Italian hoodlums.

Maybe that's what they're fighting against (apart from the law), Stands to reason them being bank robbers, they steal the wrong criminal's monies. Before you know it you have (whatever year it is) Vito Corleone on your ass. That's not good, no matter what year you're born.

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13 hours ago, Im2akillerfish said:

Oh yes, how could I forget the killer piranhas of Thieves' landing?


If I had to guess, swimming could be limited by stamina/some other stat like it was in Vice City Stories. Once it runs out Morgan drowns. This way we would have a way to avoid insta-drowning, but still have limitations on where we can go.


Edit: Someone pointed out somewhere that since the Flat Iron lake connects directly to the river separating New Austin and Nuevo Paraiso, if we have a way to travel in water (such as canoes), there has to be some way to prevent us from just going downstream. (I completely forgot the Manteca Falls. I could see a strong water current dragging Morgan down the Manteca Falls now that I think of it)


Edit 2: The problem with the "Lawmen hunt you if you cross" idea is that they would still have to recreate some of the old map so we wouldn't reach the edge of the world. A well-prepared player with a good horse and enough Medicine could reach Armadillo if they really try. This would also mean there couldn't be an invincibility code, since you could reach the map's boundaries by using it. 


While I can understand the idea that the old regions probably won't be added (I'd be happy either way), but ways other than invisible walls and insta-drowning would start to be counter-intuitive at some point. If they had to recreate Hennigan's Stead anyway, they may just as well make it playable then.

Agree, I suppose they would have to put in some inisible walls at some point around Thieves Landing so you can not run away to visit Bonnie 😃 Another way for R to get around this is to write in a cut-scene where lawmen sneak up from behind and force Arthur in to arrest and you will be brought back to jail in Blackwater. 

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Little Big Man

There's a bridge leading south into Theive's Landing, all they need to do remove it.

Edited by Little Big Man

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/\ Again, if swimming is possible removing a single bridge wouldn't do anything. Granted, we still don't know if we can swim and many players feel that not being able to swim would be too frustrating. (I personally could live with it, but I can't stand the insta-drowning. I have a feeling that Marston would drown if someone threw some water at his face.)


Maybe boats break if you go too far like in GTA V? A strong current would stop us from going to the Old Bacchus Place and beyond by dragging Morgan('s boat) down the Manteca Falls and killing him. I could see the river around Tanner's Span being powerful enough to pull Morgan underwater and kill him, but by the time it reaches Thieves Landing it has calmed down. I guess we have to wait and see.

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 Given how many times they've redone Liberty City and even the "state" of San Andreas it wouldn't surprise me if some, or all, of the towns in RDR were in RDR 2 but with completely different looks and even sizes. GTA 3 LC and GTA IV LC are nothing alike visually or in size yet they're the same city in name. Nothing forces R* to have to make things identical to before but with updated graphics. We can totally get a new version and layout of Thieves Landing and then some sort of mountain barrier nearby that wasn't there in the first game.


 Even though it's a prequel in story we could also get a bigger Blackwater, a more expansive Tall Trees, why? Because if they treat this world like GTA they can update it and reshape it how they see fit since they aren't faced with the hardware restrictions of the previous generation. Just like GTA 6 and RDR 3 won't be hindered by this generations limits. I'd love for another 80's Vice City experience but with todays graphics and abilities. Not once would it bother me that 2018 80's VC is nothing like 2002 80's VC, just like it won't bother me if parts of RDR 1 are in RDR 2 but different.


Edit: Hell, RDR 2's map could actually just be RDR 1 on this generation just larger and more dense than before like Liberty City's different versions. Assuming the leaked map is real and using screenshots: Plains? Check. Oil fields? Check. Woodland area(s)? Check. Snowy mountains? Check. You can see where I'm going.


 As far as world barriers go I wouldn't mind swimming being a limited action (swimming long distances or with any finesse in full cowboy attire with boots and jeans wouldn't be very realistic IMO) and therefore width of rivers or lakes/seas prevents us from crossing into certain areas permanently or until a bridge is opened in story. Impossible-to-scale mountains will obviously return. Nothing prevents them from doing something like an invisible wall. The player may complain in the moment (I can see more land!) but they'll quickly change direction and carry on. Just like any other game with invisible walls or boundaries.

Edited by MC_HaMMaSTiX

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