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RedDagger

Mapping Red Dead Redemption 2! Landmark Analysis Thread

Recommended Posts

ivarblaauw

I find it funny and/or strange that there are actually unseen biomes in the regions which are locked off... 

 

Either they already had ideas for them and want to implement stuff later on, or well... they want to use it for rdr3 and not change the lore, which is weird. 

 

Guess only time will tell, although they have given themselves a lot more options to expand in comparison with GTA. In RDO they literally only have to add a bridge or a ship. In GTA the only option would have been to drastically change the landscape (since it was meant to be one island)... so they definitely have made it themselves easier, plus there are already loads of locations we should be able to climb and enter new regions but can't *cough* New Austin *cough*.

 

I love how the eastbank of the river is farmlands and actually looks like a civil war battle could break out at any moment xD 

Edited by ivarblaauw

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alz

My general impression is they didn't model all this terrain.  They used a program to auto-generate it.  Then there's a system in place to provide a default texturing for it.  From that default texturing generates plant types.  That's not to say I don't want MOAR though.

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DuPz0r

Yeah i believe that instead of hand modelling the base terrain and then importing it, i think with this game, they went with a base terrain editor, which they used to make a rough base, then disected it into segments and imported if for environment artists to work in more detail. The out of bounds areas show us a peak behind the curtains, and the base mesh which didnt get a detailed modelling pass.

 

Then the textures are 100% generated by the engine it's self. I dont think it is random, since i've been to the same places more once and seen the same trees/bushes/ground combos. I think think the engine generated it a certain way and now it sticks.

Edited by DuPz0r

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jje1000

Rob Nelson vaguely mention the types of tools used:

 

Quote

Unfortunately there’s no procedural system yet that we’re happy enough with to make the worlds we make. Our worlds are handmade. Our artists will use certain procedural tools, but they’re all curated by the artists. It’s the same for the content we make. For it to make you feel anything, it has to be made by humans. It has to be written and designs and shot and acted and processed and put into place very carefully. For things that happen in the world, we have to very selectively know when they’re going to happen.

https://venturebeat.com/2018/12/05/red-dead-redemption-a-deep-dive-into-rockstars-game-design/

 

I think the general broad strokes are handmade (deciding on general locations of places), and the intermediary detail is procedural (terrain, textures, forest placement, etc.), but the finer detail at placed locations are handmade (i.e. buildings, camp placements, specific landmarks)

Edited by jje1000

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oCrapaCreeper

If we actually mapped the unplayable space, including mexico, I wonder how big the actual "playable space assuming bugs" is compared to the playable map.

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alz

I never noticed this "Tempest Rim" label before.  Has anyone poked around that area in their out-of-bounds explorations?
 

(FYI, it's unreachable in this video)

 

 

 

I'm slowly starting to build a list of areas that look like they were cut from production for release.  There's obvious ones like the Hobbit Hill House and other smaller ones like more rooms above the Valentine Saloon based on its interior map.  Also, it looks like the Saloon in Annesburg was pulled out at some point.  It was used in one of the quests (never allowed to enter obviously) and it's big enough to support an interior.  Annesburg feels like a half-town.  And why's there no place to eat + drink in Strawberry?

A lot of these ongoing Mysteries feel like cut content that wasn't completely removed ... like the captive woman at Emerald Ranch.  All this material is a great foundation for future stories... if Rockstar decides to use them.  I hope they aren't used trivially in RDO, like GTAO has in the past.

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Cutter De Blanc

Had an idea and I got it to work. Jumped on one of those huge undrivable boats that circles the river, waited until it got close to the southern shoreline, then got blackout drunk. I woke up on the southern side of the river. There is a canoe sitting here in the water as well.

0_0.jpg?downsize=888:*&output-quality=80

 

The canoe sank as soon as I stood on it so I assume the water here is deadly to swim in like it is south of the San Luis river

 

Oddly enough as I run around I find I am unable to climb up the riverbank, almost as though they figured people would be able to get over here... Finally got up on top of the riverbank and Arthur hit an invisible wall. Also encountered another canoe as i was going along the riverbank and that one sank too. The water close to the shoreline and in between the islands can be swam in. This southern shoreline is weird, gonna follow it as far as i can.

 

Northeast of Sisika there is a nice little floodplain but I wasn't able to go any farther north, as the swift current met up with the riverbank right afterwards

Edited by Cutter De Blanc

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DuPz0r
12 hours ago, alz said:

I never noticed this "Tempest Rim" label before.  Has anyone poked around that area in their out-of-bounds explorations?
 

(FYI, it's unreachable in this video)

 

I did an explore video on it.

 

Edited by DuPz0r

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koeklin

Garden District : two mansions

 

1. Montgomery-Hero House

 

6MT65jk.jpg

 

2. Colonel Short's Villa

cuAsFvn.jpg

 

Lost New Orleans:

 

1. Theatre Râleur (RDR2) & The French Opera House  by William H. Jackson

 

EBZCW6V.jpg

 

 

2. St. Denis train station & The Louisville and Nashville station (of New Orleans)

 

0vK3eZb.jpg

 

3.  Theodore Eckhart Stables & Anheuser Bush Brewery Stables

 

EW0S9ov.jpg

 

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AndyGanteks
23 hours ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

The canoe sank as soon as I stood on it so I assume the water here is deadly to swim in like it is south of the San Luis river

Quite a few canoes placed on the southern shoreline, this one i found looking straight towards Great Plains/Blackwater. No idea why they are "driveable" cause a) you're not supposed to be there b) you sink almost instantly

8ScecHU.jpg

 

js4zHrj.jpg

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Cutter De Blanc

That coupled with the physical map boundary on the riverbank is confusing.  Like maybe the people who designed the map didn't know where players are and are not allowed to access or something. Just weird that they'd  put a physical map boundary beyond the kill zone

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DuPz0r
23 minutes ago, Cutter De Blanc said:

That coupled with the physical map boundary on the riverbank is confusing.  Like maybe the people who designed the map didn't know where players are and are not allowed to access or something. Just weird that they'd  put a physical map boundary beyond the kill zone

The coastline boundary was probably first implemented, and the sinking/drown mechanic has added afterward as a secondary layer of protection. They know how we all as fans like to break there games down to the raw skeleton beneath lol

 

I would have loved it as some kind of easter egg if they put a couple of chests along the coast for people that could make it across.

Edited by DuPz0r

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Cutter De Blanc

I swear, if I have to listen to this little sh*thead tell me cavallo means horse one more time I'm gonna chuck dynamite at this kid

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Deadman2112
On 12/6/2018 at 5:26 PM, alz said:

My general impression is they didn't model all this terrain.  They used a program to auto-generate it.  Then there's a system in place to provide a default texturing for it.  From that default texturing generates plant types.  That's not to say I don't want MOAR though.

Funny you mention that.

I brought up something similar in GTAV.

 

I made the comment on mystery thread and i said...

 

After all the hunting We all did in that game one thing stood out to me...

 

All the designs (to me anyway) were mathematically similar. 

From my perspective, it was like looking at something that was created out of an algorithm that took a fractal approach to it's design.

I dismissed it because I thought it was just simply the hand of the arrests who created them. Much in the same way a great painters brush strokes are all similar from painting to painting.

 

But I think you may be absolutely correct about this.

I say that because...

 

 

Maybe it's just me but, I don't think a human would make a mistake like this.

...although could be wrong lol

Someone could have said "I'm just going to put this up here for the mess with the idiot who finds it.

If t that's true, I guess I'm wearing the dunce cap.

Edited by Deadman2112

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jje1000

I think the Van Horn Trading Post is partially based off of Natchez, Mississippi. Found the album cover of Natchez by Bishop Gunn:

 

0KQ5VID6_400x400.jpg

 

And some more pictures from here: https://for-natchez.org/gandy.html

TheLanding_Pg14.jpg

Natchez_UTH_Trolley_Pg2.jpg

 

And some more:

Natchez-Old-UTH.jpg

i285697114344733795._szw1280h1280_.jpg

 

Van Horn

latest?cb=20181123142220&format=original

 

Edited by jje1000

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BretMaverick777

Howdy, fellers!  🤠

 

Hope y'all have all been well.

So....with all this exploration of the vast amounts of blank spaces beyond the map borders that turned out to be not quite so blank at all, are people still convinced that none of this represents map add-ons, expansions, and DLC.....?   🤨

10 hours ago, koeklin said:

Garden District : two mansions

snip

 

Beautiful photos and impressive research, sir. 

Looks like 1899 New Orleans has been recreated in such painstaking detail, they might as well have just called it the real deal instead of fictionalizing it as St. Denis.  

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silly_nate
1 hour ago, jje1000 said:

Natchez

0KQ5VID6_400x400.jpg

Van Horn

latest?cb=20181123142220&format=original

 

Wow this is great. 

Apart from this and Saint Denis, are there any other towns that have a real life counterpart?

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jje1000
1 minute ago, silly_nate said:

Wow this is great. 

Apart from this and Saint Denis, are there any other towns that have a real life counterpart?

I think so, Rockstar likes to reference directly (like copying 1-for-1) from real life while mixing and matching towns based on a general 'feeling' and mood- probably every town building has some real-life equivalent.

 

For instance, Annesburg could be partially inspired by this, but it's not an exact match.

 

cumberland-1.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=

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silly_nate
3 minutes ago, jje1000 said:

Annesburg 

cumberland-1.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=

Wow just add hills to the left 👌🏻

Now that I think about it, I remember reading on the wiki that Blackwater looks a lot like a real life town called Blackwater. Just can’t remember the state...

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jje1000
10 minutes ago, silly_nate said:

Wow just add hills to the left 👌🏻

Now that I think about it, I remember reading on the wiki that Blackwater looks a lot like a real life town called Blackwater. Just can’t remember the state...

Missouri? It's a little similar, but the IRL town is much smaller.

 

That reminds me, I really want them to hurry up and release the Art of Red Dead Redemption II- it was supposed to be out by October but they haven't said a word yet. Has anyone heard anything?

Edited by jje1000

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Jabalous
37 minutes ago, BretMaverick777 said:

Howdy, fellers!  🤠

 

Hope y'all have all been well.

So....with all this exploration of the vast amounts of blank spaces beyond the map borders that turned out to be not quite so blank at all, are people still convinced that none of this represents map add-ons, expansions, and DLC.....?   🤨

 

The issue is that if they plan to add/expand maps, they'll certainly need to create stories to tell in them, otherwise they'll be devoid of any meaning and Rockstar isn't the type to create meaningless maps. They can create a smaller project using the same engine and assets of Redemption 2 (think of it as a spin-off) and release it as early as late 2020. All the needed work would be map building, mo-capping, voice acting, scripting and ambient audio samples for new biomes. Will players like it? Of course, and who doesn't want more stories and immersive new areas from Rockstar? Will they do it? I highly doubt it, and instead they'll use the already huge playground to bring more characters with their own stories, and particularly in Online.

Edited by Jabalous

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Deadman2112

This isn't so much a post about the mapping aspects as much as the real life counter parts to the landmarks in the game...

 

I'm from New Orleans, Louisiana area.

...well just outside of it anyway, and I've been quietly watching this thread progress.

 

I have to give you folks props on your sleuthing skills, most looks to be pretty dead on.

 

Nice job, keep up the good work

Edited by Deadman2112

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jje1000
4 minutes ago, Jabalous said:

The issue is that if they plan to add/expand maps, they'll certainly need to create stories to tell in them, otherwise they'll be devoid of any meaning and Rockstar isn't the type to create meaningless maps. They can create a smaller project using the same engine and assets of Redemption 2 (think of it as a spin-off) and release it as early as late 2020. All the needed work would be map building, mo-capping, voice acting, scripting and ambient audio samples for new biomes. Will players like it? Of course, and who doesn't want more stories and immersive new areas from Rockstar? Will they do it? I highly doubt it, and instead they'll use the already huge playground to bring more characters with their own stories, and particularly in Online. 

I agree- if there's any map additions, it will probably be specifically be semi-self-enclosed spaces for DLC and online (bleh).

 

For instance, they could reopen Tempest Ridge and have a specific mission occur there online. Same with Mexico, but maybe centered around a substantial Javier DLC expansion. But more likely is the fact that they'll use the existing map with minor tweaks for more missions (like Undead Nightmare in the first RDR 1, the only new space was the Escalera Catacombs).

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Oldsport
2 hours ago, jje1000 said:

I think the Van Horn Trading Post is partially based off of Natchez, Mississippi. Found the album cover of Natchez by Bishop Gunn:

 

0KQ5VID6_400x400.jpg

 

And some more pictures from here: https://for-natchez.org/gandy.html

TheLanding_Pg14.jpg

Natchez_UTH_Trolley_Pg2.jpg

 

 

Van Horn

latest?cb=20181123142220&format=original

 

wow i was just wondering what town van horn was based on, nice find. whered you find this?

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MarlboroMan1995

@jje1000 great find!! Curious to know about what time those photos are from. Prior to the civil war, Natchez “below the bluff” was known for its debauchery!

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lesrima88

what part of the map is this from the gameplay trailer?

6najJc5.jpg

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GoodSense129
6 hours ago, silly_nate said:

Wow just add hills to the left 👌🏻

Now that I think about it, I remember reading on the wiki that Blackwater looks a lot like a real life town called Blackwater. Just can’t remember the state...

Blackwater , Missouri (according to Red Dead wiki) but West Elizabeth (RDR 1 version) is mainly based off Oklahoma 

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Jabalous
7 hours ago, lesrima88 said:

what part of the map is this from the gameplay trailer?

6najJc5.jpg

The Heartlands 

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alz

This real world location is an obvious match for the one in Saint Denis...

 

bos-commanders-palace-2518006_bestocomma

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alz
18 hours ago, Deadman2112 said:

Funny you mention that.

I brought up something similar in GTAV.

 

I made the comment on mystery thread and i said...

 

After all the hunting We all did in that game one thing stood out to me...

 

All the designs (to me anyway) were mathematically similar. 

From my perspective, it was like looking at something that was created out of an algorithm that took a fractal approach to it's design.

I dismissed it because I thought it was just simply the hand of the arrests who created them. Much in the same way a great painters brush strokes are all similar from painting to painting.

 

But I think you may be absolutely correct about this.

I say that because...

 

 

Maybe it's just me but, I don't think a human would make a mistake like this.

...although could be wrong lol

Someone could have said "I'm just going to put this up here for the mess with the idiot who finds it.

If t that's true, I guess I'm wearing the dunce cap.

I suspect there's a scatter random volume set up for plants.  It re-seeds the exact placement on every playthough.  I once saw an herb that was perfectly on top of a dead tree.  This made me think it was placed there on purpose!  When I went back, it was no longer there and the 3 herbs were randomized next to the tree.

Having a volume instead of a hand-placed items means they could in theory change the number or type by changing a value in some list.  Much easier to update and balance with a text file instead of a big map file.

22 hours ago, koeklin said:

 

 

Lost New Orleans:

 

1. Theatre Râleur (RDR2) & The French Opera House  by William H. Jackson

 

EBZCW6V.jpg

 

 

2. St. Denis train station & The Louisville and Nashville station (of New Orleans)

 

0vK3eZb.jpg

 

 

 

 

I wonder how many landmark buildings were also used in Mafia 3.  Here's a bit about the Opera House.  I know I've seen that trainstation in New Bordeaux too.
 

 

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