Chances of breaking GTA's monopoly and how?

[Osho]

NOTE: I'd like to apologise if this topic seems unfit for this section. I couldn't think of any section appropriate for this discussion, and so request the moderators to kindly move the topic to the section that seems correct.

 

 

Despite being a GTA Fan, I can't help but feel very angry and upsetting to see its influences on many popular titles over the years, which has done more harm than good to those games original feel which gradually started to lose its appeal to please a wider audience and since GTA is such a giant monopoly that its footprint on many games seems to be growing, which I personally find it bad.

I wish to see as many games as possible, whether open world or not, to offer a nice break from GTA, be it features, story, gameplay, driving, and etcetera.

 

Mafia III is a good example of what exactly I'm talking about. It comes with a great story but from the gameplay standpoint many critics are slamming it for trying too hard to feel like a wannabe GTA and not the Mafia game. Mafia series was known for its challenging gameplay and unique world details with least amount of hand-holding gimmicks. The reviewers have certainly given the developers a fitting reply by criticising them and deservedly so. Its not a bad game and a lot of appreciation has started to pour in with each passing day but it could have been truly a lot better and a great alternative for those seeking a break from GTA had the developers, at least, tried to distinguish the game from GTA as much as possible rather than unashamedly ripping off.

 

On the other hand, I recently came across a bad news that the developers behind Sleeping Dogs has shut down ( no official confirmation at this point in time while typing ) and the only reason for such a move seems mainly connected with the commercial failure of the IP, and such is the the fate when they try to offer a break from GTA by bringing a number of things of its own to the genre in order to distinguish it from being "just another GTA clone" that despite positive reviews, the game couldn't attract enough players to achieve satisfying sales as the publishers hoped for.

 

So, is there any chance of breaking GTA's monopoly or even slowing down its influence on the games and the players in general, so that the games could equally benefit for offering something different and take greater artistic and creative risks without the fear of losing sales?

And importantly, how?

 

As much as I like GTA, I don't think its such an excellent IP that every developer needs to learn a few tricks about how not to shoot yourself in the foot but stick with the GTA conventions in order to make the game successful commercially, if not critically.

[UshaB]

On the other hand, I recently came across a bad news that the developers behind Sleeping Dogs has shut down.

 

Makes sense. UFG were still in development of some game called, "Smash + Grab" which everyone hated and wanted a sequel to Sleepy Dawgz desperately. However UFG replied with, "Yep! While we loved bringing Hong Kong to gamers with Sleeping Dogs, we do not own the Sleeping Dogs IP. A decision to do anything further with Sleeping Dogs rests with Square-Enix." So UFG were inevitably doomed from the get-go.

 

OT: It would be hard for an open world game to try not to be considered a. "GTA Clone" whilst simultaneously be considered boring in terms of the gameplay. The majority of people are quick to judge and consider many open world games to be a gta clone since, "cuz gta iz the 1st open wrld game".

 

GTA is like a mass market, it appeals to many due to how many experiences of the game it can sell despite some of its quality can be lower than other open world games that are like a Niche market eg. Watch Dogs - Hacking, Sleeping Dogs - Hand to Hand combat.

 

It is hard for open world games to do something that would divert from a gta like formula yet still be considered boring outside of the story. GTA has expanded a lot for it's world, they have a massive rang of things to do, going as far as doing Yoga. It makes it hard for competitors to find new things to distinguish itself.

 

Other open world games just have to do, what it aims to do, really really well so players can be kept engaged and interested. I've never played Watch Dogs to the extent to where I could review it, but their open world hacking mini-games and such would have to be interesting and keep the players engaged (for players out there, did they do it right?) . For Sleeping Dogs they should of made their open world crime mini-games interesting and keep the players engaged. In order to do that, they'll have to be much more above average in terms of min-games itself and in regards to crime. It can't be just something simple like do A to get to B and go to C. It has to be written more thoroughly in terms of context so it wouldn't just be a chore.

 

Other than that how else can they distinguish themselves apart. GTA's open world range is massive. Even having 1 to 2 features from that game people immediately refer it to as a gta clone.

[Osho]

GTA's open world range may be massive but its not that interactive nor complex yet. Its here when games try to capitalize on what's missing from GTA and come up with their own interesting and creative touches don't benefit from as much appreciation as GTA's still receive when it has hardly evolved in many areas.

Mafia 1 is a good example of a game that tends to stray away from mainstream conventions and received great critical acclaim as well. But Mafia 2 onwards a similar design philosophy didn't continue because of various criticisms from the players, and as a result, things changed and not necessarily for the better.

The same developer who developed the first Mafia eventually left the studio and now busy in making a RPG game called "Kingdom Come Deliverance" to continue what he always intended to do - offer something different and fresh that stands out from the crowd including crap RPGs like Skyrim.

So, its not that difficult to distinguish any game from mainstream conventions after all creativity has no limits. The problem boils down to two things - commercial success and demand.

I actually find many players who really want the developers to make games that offer a nice break from popular titles having a string monopoly in the market but unfortunately, for business reasons or something else, they just don't seem to be taking certain bold decisions to achieve or to do something remarkably different, and the game ends up sharing in common a lot than separate itself from other popular mainstream titles.

[RogerWho]

You know I'm not really sure it's actually GTA that the others are trying to clone. The world of video games has become way too homogenized, true, but I don't think GTA is the go-to game to copy. There certainly has been a few also-rans in the early 2000's, such as the True Crime series.

 

But while back in the day any game with an open world was sort of considered to be a GTA clone by default (just as shooters in the 90's got the Doom clone moniker, etc.), these days it's not as clear cut. If anything, most of the current open world game tropes seem to come from the Assassin's Creed series (itself an evolution of open world game, but not exactly a GTA clone) combined with Minecraft and various RPG tropes.

 

In fact if I'd want to pick one word to describe the current trends in gaming it would be "filler" or "busywork". Getting from place to place to gather resources/troops/money, unlock new areas, craft items, repair your whatever. It's the Ubisoft formula, but stuff like can be found in lots of other open world games (and not just them) - that Midldle Earth game, Mad Max whatever it was, Rage. And still there are other open world games with a different schtick, like the Just Cause series.

 

So I'm not really seeing the GTA influence. Especially since each the last 3 major GTA games (SA, IV, V) has had some very different priorities. There's not even a single strong common trend among the series, much less one passed onto other games. Besides, there are very few contemporary crime games. Most action-ish games set in the last half century or so are usually adventure games or war shooters.

 

That said, I do like the genre of contemporary open world action game that uses cars as transportation. It doesn't necessarily have to be an action rampager, which is why I include games like Mafia or LA Noire in the semi-genre.

 

Games that might have been unique in some areas, but still seemed like too much of GTA clones, never got too far. Scarface, Getaway or the Godfather games never got sequels (or rather spiritual successors which would be more fitting); it took a decade for a 3rd True Crime game to come out and again, Sleeping Dogs wasn't all that successful on the market.

 

So what are the trends there? See above. More busywork. Watch Dogs is certainly going to continue the trend, Mafia has jumped on the bandwagon as well. And so has GTA in fact in form of GTAO. In fact Online will probably be another 'required' part of this sort of games.

 

If anyone tries to break into the market with this kind of a game, you can bet it's going to have: 1) something unique about it to distinguish itself, albeit maybe just artificially (like the hacking in Watch Dogs), 2) tons of busywork and filler to bloat up the game length, 3) some extra modes as further bloat (like the zombie modes in COD), 4) online with macrotransactions. Oh yea and also a lot of simplifying (dumbing down if you will). We can't have realistic driving or anything.

 

Personally I do like the semi-genre but those are the tropes that make me want a game less, not more. I'd take a streamlined, focused Mafia (the original) or LA Noire over another artificially bloated up committee/market research-driven project.

 

But, that's the only way a game can sell 20 million copies these days and as we know, anything less than that is a failure.

 

Addendum: Also, one of the signature marks of the GTA series is the craptastic satirical humor and I've not seen that copied in other games of this sort either.

Edited October 19, 2016 by RogerWho

[slimeball supreme]

Do you know why GTA has been copied?

 

Innovation, quality, popularity, fun factor, and more. If a new IP or game manages to tick all of these boxes (which is incredibly unlikely) than sure, the Monopoly could be toppled. But you're acting like GTA is both the most cost effective and popular thing to emulate - which it very obviously isn't.

 

Same reason why mobile apps are gaining traction, or why so many first person shooters are made - they're popular and cheap. This ensures profit on both ends.

 

By the way, I kind of have a problem with how you're trying to turn this into a Mafia-is-the-best circlejerk, but that's off topic.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Mr. Fartenhate

[RogerWho]

By the way, I kind of have a problem with how you're trying to turn this into a Mafia-is-the-best circlejerk, but that's off topic.

First person games aren't cheap to make. COD and Halo games often end up on the lists of most expensive games ever made. On the other hand, Sleeping Dogs apparently broke even with just around 1.5 million copies sold.

 

How expensive the project is depends on how well managed it is. There doesn't really seem to be any huge divide between linear and open world stuff anymore.

 

You can't compare it with mobile games that can be made on a few thousands $ budget.

 

As for popularity, well almost nothing can compare to the behemoth of GTA. But like I said above, I don't think GTA is being copied anyway.

[slimeball supreme]

First person games aren't cheap to make. COD and Halo games often end up on the lists of most expensive games ever made. On the other hand, Sleeping Dogs apparently broke even with just around 1.5 million copies sold.

And where do GTA games place on those lists?

 

You're missing the point of what I'm trying to say, and my post wasn't addressing your post. Hell, one of my points was literally your last sentence.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Mr. Fartenhate

[RogerWho]

GTA tend to be among the most expensive too.

 

But if I'm not mistaken, your point is that GTA games are not copied because they are expensive to clone. But the example of Sleeping Dogs shows that it's not the case because it broke even with only 1.5 million copies sold. Ergo, other developers could to that too.

 

Besides, if it's prohibitively expensive to clone GTA, then it's just as expensive to clone COD and that hasn't stopped anybody.

 

And open world games are dime a dozen too. They just don't copy the GTA formula methinks, as I mentioned in my first post here.

 

Hard to say why GTA really isn't cloned as excessively as other genres. It certainly used to be, but these days? Nah.

Edited October 19, 2016 by RogerWho

[Snesgamer83]

There was a brief window when many disgruntled SA fans were upset with how many features GTA IV cut, and many of those went on to make games like Saints Row popular (I admit, I tried those, never was my thing). But needless to say, GTA V while not everyone's cup of tea from what I've seen on these forums closed quite a few of those gaps and the margin of entry for any competing series is again very small.

 

Only way I see another series climbing back up is if R* allows GTA Online to cripple the next GTA base game even worse than they did with GTA V. But then again, that hypothetical series would have to be started from scratch, as both the Saints Row and True Crime/Sleeping Dogs series are now dead.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Snesgamer83

[Rascalov]

Well, first of all, I don't agree that Sleeping Dogs didn't sell well because it's not like GTA, that's just an assumption based on nothing.

 

People or reviewers at least are not scoring Mafia III low because it had similarities to GTA either really, they have their complaints, I really liked it myself, but it is what it is I could care less about a game I like being unpopular.

 

 

Will they ever break the monopoly? no GTA is a powerful & influential game, and there will be open world games with similarities to GTA. with that said they all have their own style, even Saints Row had its own style I fail to see how having a greater number of fun open world games which can be solid alternatives to GTA is a bad thing? rather that than generic first person shooters which all feel the same.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Rascalov

[Queen Elizabeth II]

How to break GTA's monopoly?

 

It's easy.

 

MAKE A GOOD GAME! All GTA clones are so,so, so bad! It's just gross! Make a proper game, that's how you do it! Maybe if they didn't ruin Mafia by making Mafia 3 (awful game and GTA V clone) it could break it some day? Or maybe if Saint's Row didn't become what it became? Who knows.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Queen Elizabeth II

[Zello]

How to break GTA's monopoly?

 

It's easy.

 

MAKE A GOOD GAME! All GTA clones are so,so, so bad! It's just gross! Make a proper game, that's how you do it! Maybe if they didn't ruin Mafia by making Mafia 3 (awful game and GTA V clone) it could break it some day? Or maybe if Saint's Row didn't become what it became? Who knows.

That's pretty true a lot of these GTA clones that have come out over the years have been pretty bad they either had a bunch of bugs or the developers just made a bunch of stupid design decisions.

 

Saints Row and Sleeping Dogs are an exception. Saints Row was a pretty good game and could have challenged GTA instead they went the other way and ruined the game themselves with this new direction they took IMO.

 

Sleeping Dogs just wasn't as popular as GTA and probably needed another game in the series too bad United Front games shut down.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Zello

[TheHumanIsland]

How to break GTA's monopoly?

 

It's easy.

 

MAKE A GOOD GAME! All GTA clones are so,so, so bad! It's just gross! Make a proper game, that's how you do it! Maybe if they didn't ruin Mafia by making Mafia 3 (awful game and GTA V clone) it could break it some day? Or maybe if Saint's Row didn't become what it became? Who knows.

 

 

This.

 

All those games "trying to take a clue from GTA" in so few words of OP, they WOULD work and be successful and probably pressure Rockstar to step up their quality and frequency, if the clones were so god f*cking awful.

 

I have sleeping dogs, it's sh*t.

 

I have saints row 2 and 3. they are sh*t.

 

I bought watchdogs and it was sh*t and refunded it.

 

I do like Far Cry series, but it's different than GTA, it's wilderness in first person, hunting and outpost takedown, it's totally different.

 

Just Cause 2: sh*t.

 

If these games were all made on the GTA Engine, basically reskinned the same way RDR is made on GTA Engine and Bully was too, these games would be good.

 

These are good games story wise. But the way they feel, the controls, the way the cars feel, the way all those non-rockstar games "feel" - it's not fun, it's sh*t, it feels like they are all on the same crappy engine and I don't understand why "no one" can match rockstar's sh*t.

 

From IV's awesome feel, to V's different but still awesome feel. None of them feel anywhere near as good as a Rockstar game, the rest of the open world games with driving and cities and stuff, they are just crap.

Edited October 19, 2016 by TheHumanIsland

[D9fred95]

I have saints row 2 and 3. they are sh*t.

 

I feel like Saints Row 2 was actually a pretty solid contender all things considered. Stilwater's evolution from SR1 to SR2 is something more game developers should take note of when recreating a previously used environment. It also had a nice variety of activities from FUZZ to Septic Avenger, a far cry from V's Yoga nonsense. Not to mention character creation, almost any NPC can be recreated exactly barring height and voice.

[TheHumanIsland]

Must be a taste/preference thing then, because I found SR2 to be so boring, poor graphics, both poorly modeled and poorly textured, as well as poorly rendered, I really couldn't play it long. Maybe I'll try it out again soon just to see if I can get some fun out of it, but I always feel like it's just so pointless each time I try it. Can't immerse. Been a while, maybe time to try again.

 

The activities, shooting the sh*t cannon, I didn't like it, felt dumb. So it is preference I guess, but what I don't think is preference is how cars felt so fake, movement felt last gen (gen before it at the time), and so on.

Edited October 19, 2016 by TheHumanIsland

[Bare]

So you're angry about GTA being so good that other game developers feel the need to copy it?

[Giantsgiants]

Well, GTA set the bar for wide open sandboxes pretty high. One problem I see with these "GTA clones" is that they offer nothing unique to the table. The next game developer who wants to challenge GTA should put themself in the consumer's shoes and ask themselves "Why should I play your game instead of GTA?".

 

And of course, there's the execution. The game better smoking rock because both reviewers and fans can be some of the nitpickiest people you meet. If people feel that it doesn't beat GTA, then it's going to be dismissed as a failed GTA clone instead of a worthy challenger, even if your game is still considered "good".

[Zello]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJJeO20MA3E

What is wrong with some devs? I mean this isn't a exactly a GTA clone but they said open world so you know...

Edited October 24, 2016 by Zello