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GTA V: THE START OF THE STRUGGLE TO SURVIVE


Markhayzy
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Ok I have been holding on hopelessly for a long time now for some sort of story expansion for GTAV and i have just about given up. There has been nothing that has impressed me or held my interest on the market for the last few years. I felt at a low point in my videogame life.

Then i saw this!!

This trailer gave me a buzz i haven't had about a game since the V trailers. It has a real raw cool vibe to it. But it got me thinking (and worrying)about the future of the GTA series.

I loved mafia 2, cool time period, great graphics, great characters, brilliant storytelling, and a badass hollywood-esque attitude. Sure it didn't have the same sort of free open world, ripe with activities as its at the time competitor (GTA IV) but that was one of the many things they could improve on next time around. This trailer amongst the others shows better graphics, a bigger world, somehow a better more intriguing story, more in depth characters, and the move to shake things up with a new orleans styled backdrop with a black protagonist yet still tell a mafia based story is just genius.

BUT it is relatively easy for them to do! They have one set of rules to follow, one genre...serious crime drama! They can change the setting and characters and improve the worlds etc a hundred times over and still have a winning formula!

What does this have to do with GTA your thinking?

Well i just can't see where they can go next! How they can go bigger and better without upsetting one side of their fanbase? The older GTA's on the older systems were perfect for their generation. The mix of a semi-serious story, hollywood action movie throwback missions, and over the top silly side missions were acceptable when games were just games and a bit of off the cuff craziness was expected, and it never felt out of place because the story had the same amount of reslism as every other aspect of the game world.

But in this generation of consoles, where the graphics are so realistic, the characters are so detailed, the stories are ever more adult and engaging the sillyness just throws you off your game and you don't know how your supposed to be feeling while your playing. For example, how atmospheric and awesome was the (spoiler) Ludendorf mission where Trevor and Micheal finally come head to head and dig up Brad!? The pinnacle of the story, real emotion, best friends, betrayal and a antihero heavily outnumbered in a shootout in a dimly lit graveyard. Then you fly back to Los Santos and have a silly pshyco rampage mission with Trevors superpowers ability and then switch to Franklin and have a jet ski race cause your nesr the beach....and the graveyard is forgot about, and the story, and hence the IMMERSION! Which IMO is the ultimate goal of any video game.

I think Rockstar realised this struggle way back and took the first steps to rectify the problems with GTA IV. If you ask me it was a huge step forward, everything about it was dark, grimy, serious yet still GTAat the core. I think this is the direction Rockstar wanted to take the series, something they could continue with and improve upon in the successing years.

But (excuse me those of you i am about to diss) the 6 year old's didn't like it. "It's not GTA, it doesn't feel the same, theres no crazy crazy rampages, its no fun, i cant just run around blowing everything up with a bazooka just for the hell of it, blablabla.

So naturally you've ruined it. With V Rockstar have gone out of their way to try to appease everybody, theres the story which i do love but with all it's directions and craziness just lands short of what they would really like to do, there's the good side missions i.e the off road races and parachuting and the customization options, the bad side missions like the property missions and the mother of all things that spells doom for our beloved GTA......

"We want to run around in clown suits, and christmas socks, and shoot fireworks, and have sumo races on skyscrapers". Well you've got it...it's called GTA ONLINE and it smells of death. Just look what you've done, crazy stunt loop races, 20,000ft in the air, kids begging their moms for money for shark cards so they can but this weeks supercar, 3 new items of clothing a day, zombie slasher missions, teen wolf. What was it you said about GTAIV? Doesn't feel like GTA? Well WTF is this s**t? Cos it sure don't feel like GTA to me.

Anyway you've got your long time grown up fans who like s serious story with just a bit of foolery, and you've got the others, who should just go and mod saints row to include mario bros maps and be on their way.

Point is i just dont know how they are going to go bigger and better without making a big crazy mess of a game. V just about got away with it, but as you know there are a lot of haters, probably the same ones who hated Iv but hey. Larger worlds mean longer stories, more crazy side missions, less time spent on what matters and more time spent on exploiting the wishes of the immature millions who'd be happy in a virtual earth sized gameworld with no story at all.

Grand Theft Auto needs to mature with the rest of the gaming world and choose which path it is going to go down. Because the direction it is heading is not good for a franchise considered by many the greatest series of all time. I hope i'm wrong.

Please Rockstar follow the likes of the mafia franchise and tell the stories that have gripped the fans since GTA 3.

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too long, didnt read(most of it), gta V story updates cancelled, online reigns until gta 6, the end!

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Although the thread looks like it was written on a phone, the OP's theme, examples and logic are excellently expressed. He includes several separate but highly related points, all well written. I agree with most or all of the OP's speech.

 

At the top level, I agree that it would be nice if idiotic crap like monkey masks and hamster-tube stunt races were in a completely different game from a serious, realistic open world game.

 

I also agree that Rockstar has mostly played out their whole gimmick of satire of modern America. While much of their satire is biting and true, they are really stretching the parody beyond the limit in some cases, to fill up the game with this theme. Serious immersion, like RDR or LA Noire, would be something for Rockstar to try in a new, hyper-realistic next generation GTA.

 

Good work, OP!

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thatstupidbug

But (excuse me those of you i am about to diss) the 6 year old's didn't like it. "It's not GTA, it doesn't feel the same, theres no crazy crazy rampages, its no fun, i cant just run around blowing everything up with a bazooka just for the hell of it, blablabla.

Reducing everything to a fight between "wise older players who seek realism" and "whiny kidz who want to cause mahyem and love online" is wrong in my opinion.

 

What i think is that the jump to online woukd have been made REGARDLESS of the complains. Complains had nothing (or less) to do: R* just followed the market. The increase of party games /online has been HUGE in the last years, so R* tailor-made an experience based on those markets.

We may not like it, but on a business POV it was logical.

 

Gritty darkness and adultness isn't the only thing that sell. Crazyness also sell. But ONLINE CRAZY PARTY and QUICK MINIGAMES is way bigger than everything nkwadays, and R* simply followed along.

 

And you know what? There's nothng wrong in this route, "crazyness" and "seriousness" are both equals, and R* could have made a good game regardless.

To be honest, Online it the TRUE spirit of GTA: a sandbox, some tools, some missions, and DO WHAT THE F**** YOU WANT

 

So why (in my opinion) GTA failed? Not because GTA V pandered to the "funny/crazy style", but because R* simply cut corners and got greedy.

 

5 second long missions (buy mask, mission passed), characters dropped mid-storyline, stroy arc without an ending, heist who made you LOSE money, scripted chases who takes the place of well crafted OPEN WORLD missions, offline components that barely works etc... THOSE are core problems of GTA V, and the blame is not on whiny kids, it's on R* laziness.

 

Even if you replace beating up Lazlow in a Tattoo shop with a powerfull cutscene of shame and forgiveness, the mission is still a long, boring and cheap stretch of cut-scenes, something that has less to do with crazyness, and more with lazy development

 

R* didn't "lost focus" with online, trying to appease everybody: it simply DIDN'T CARE. When players made clear that there's a problem, and R* ignore it or BROKE it (like, for example, the slidey car cheats, or the expoit to reach Nord Yankton OFFLINE), this means they simply want the maximum result with the minimum effort, and don't care about the players.

 

They choose the online formula (single player as tutorial, online as main game) while cutting corners, creating a lackluster experience on many level. The fact that trevor humps a teddy bear is the LAST of the problems, it's R* mentality that changed from a caring company to a "money first" industry.

 

So, TLDR: craziness, adultness AND online can live one with another, and they are equal in bringing the series forward. A great developer can do everything. But R* simply GOT GREEDY, and Offline suffered NOT to appease the "crazy side", but because THEY SIMPLY DIDN'T CARE.

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Thanks saintsrow, and thatstupidbug i agree that Online could have worked, i thought it was basically going to give you a player with endless missions akin to story mode missions, an online experience with a story and as you said some sort of ending story arc, then maybe the option to switch to another online chatacter i.e a biker and pkayout that story arc. Who knows maybe next time.

I also want to stress one more point, as much as i ranted about the serious side of things, i don't oppose the humour in GTA one iota! Just the pointless sideline kiddy stuff.

I live the fact Trevor f*cks teddy bears and Lamars craziness, they are absolutely true to the core of GTA, but relevant to the story and development of the characters and its clever, twisted adult humour! Just wanted to clear that up

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To address some points one by one...

 

1) If you liked Mafia 2 for the reasons you stated, maybe you should try the original Mafia. It's a vastly superior game in every respect (except that it looks old and is difficult as hell compared to the games of today). So if you reverse that, M2 is actually a lot worse than M1 even though they kept the formula and went bigger. Ergo I can't agree with your premise as a whole. Especially since you're arguing with M3, which is not even out yet and we have no idea whether it's gonna be good or garbage.

 

2) GTA can go pretty much anywhere. It can be set in 1970, 1998 or 2040; it may be in one small city which we've seen before, or 3 completely new cities, or it can consists of parts set in Alaska, the Gobi desert and Madagascar. It can have 1 protagonist or 3 or 10; it can be dead-pan serious or gibberish, or inbetween, or all in one; it can be a sequel, a new story in the same universe, a new universe or a reboot.

 

Quite literally, if you have a place and time where there's crime, there are cars (and other methods of motorized transportation) and there is radio, you can have a GTA game in there.

 

What they will actually do, well nobody knows. It remains to be seen whether R* is the same adventurous company that made GTA IV, Bully, RDR and Manhunt, or whether safe, simple and stupid such as GTAV/O is their new modus operandi.

 

3) Your complains really aren't with the GTA series or formula in general, much less with the console generation, but only with GTA V. The mission you mention and how it was cocked up - that's just one game. Just because we're at a certain generation of consoles doesn't mean Trevor needs to be in every game from now on.

 

4) Again people keep forgetting how GTA started back in 1997 and continued pretty much until IV. Most people never cared for stories in these games, they just wanted to rampage and blow off steam. It was just non-stop crazy sh*t all-around.

 

Now, I do like the serious games and I'll take IV over any other GTA, but if anything, the clown suits and other wackyness in online is much truer to the series' roots. Just sayin'.

 

5) I still think Bully is the best R* game to date and also a perfect example how to blend serious and wacky. Heck, even though the majority of that game is batsh*t crazy, as a whole it still feels more grounded than GTA V. My point is - it's obviously doable, R* is capable of it, they've done it before. Just because V and Online fail in that regard doesn't mean all the future GTAs or all gaming have to be like that from now on.

 

Frankly it's actually pretty crazy that you use GTA III in your argument - a game which had the simplest, most bare-bones story which most people never bothered to finish because in those days, everyone was just running around in tanks.

 

Again, I'd like more serious games too, but GTA hasn't really been the franchise for that. If they decide to go back to the silliness, oh well, maybe Watch Dogs will pick up the phone.

 

//Add: So I loaded up the trophy stats in my PSN app. 9.4% of GTA IV players have finished the story (i.e got the 'You Won!' trophy). With GTA V, it's 31.0% (got the 'To Live or Die in Los Santos' trophy). So 91%, or 59% of players, respectively, never bothered to finish these games.

 

Add2: It's even funnier with the FIRST missions of these games: 63.9% for 'Off the boat' of GTA IV, 85.4% for 'Welcome to Los Santos' of GTA V. I don't even know how you can play the game without even finishing the first mission, but yea, people still do that.

Edited by RogerWho
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I'm going to try and break it down so it is easier to read.

===================================================================================================

Ok I have been holding on hopelessly for a long time now for some sort of story expansion for GTAV and i have just about given up. There has been nothing that has impressed me or held my interest on the market for the last few years. I felt at a low point in my videogame life.

 

Then i saw this!!

 

This trailer gave me a buzz i haven't had about a game since the V trailers. It has a real raw cool vibe to it. But it got me thinking (and worrying)about the future of the GTA series.

 

I loved mafia 2, cool time period, great graphics, great characters, brilliant storytelling, and a badass hollywood-esque attitude. Sure it didn't have the same sort of free open world, ripe with activities as its at the time competitor (GTA IV) but that was one of the many things they could improve on next time around. This trailer amongst the others shows better graphics, a bigger world, somehow a better more intriguing story, more in depth characters, and the move to shake things up with a new orleans styled backdrop with a black protagonist yet still tell a mafia based story is just genius.
BUT it is relatively easy for them to do! They have one set of rules to follow, one genre...serious crime drama! They can change the setting and characters and improve the worlds etc a hundred times over and still have a winning formula!

 

What does this have to do with GTA your thinking?

 

Well i just can't see where they can go next! How they can go bigger and better without upsetting one side of their fanbase? The older GTA's on the older systems were perfect for their generation. The mix of a semi-serious story, hollywood action movie throwback missions, and over the top silly side missions were acceptable when games were just games and a bit of off the cuff craziness was expected, and it never felt out of place because the story had the same amount of reslism as every other aspect of the game world.

 

But in this generation of consoles, where the graphics are so realistic, the characters are so detailed, the stories are ever more adult and engaging the sillyness just throws you off your game and you don't know how your supposed to be feeling while your playing. For example, how atmospheric and awesome was the (spoiler) Ludendorf mission where Trevor and Micheal finally come head to head and dig up Brad!? The pinnacle of the story, real emotion, best friends, betrayal and a antihero heavily outnumbered in a shootout in a dimly lit graveyard. Then you fly back to Los Santos and have a silly pshyco rampage mission with Trevors superpowers ability and then switch to Franklin and have a jet ski race cause your nesr the beach....and the graveyard is forgot about, and the story, and hence the IMMERSION! Which IMO is the ultimate goal of any video game.
I think Rockstar realised this struggle way back and took the first steps to rectify the problems with GTA IV. If you ask me it was a huge step forward, everything about it was dark, grimy, serious yet still GTAat the core. I think this is the direction Rockstar wanted to take the series, something they could continue with and improve upon in the successing years.

 

But (excuse me those of you i am about to diss) the 6 year old's didn't like it. "It's not GTA, it doesn't feel the same, theres no crazy crazy rampages, its no fun, i cant just run around blowing everything up with a bazooka just for the hell of it, blablabla.
So naturally you've ruined it. With V Rockstar have gone out of their way to try to appease everybody, theres the story which i do love but with all it's directions and craziness just lands short of what they would really like to do, there's the good side missions i.e the off road races and parachuting and the customization options, the bad side missions like the property missions and the mother of all things that spells doom for our beloved GTA......

 

"We want to run around in clown suits, and christmas socks, and shoot fireworks, and have sumo races on skyscrapers". Well you've got it...it's called GTA ONLINE and it smells of death. Just look what you've done, crazy stunt loop races, 20,000ft in the air, kids begging their moms for money for shark cards so they can but this weeks supercar, 3 new items of clothing a day, zombie slasher missions, teen wolf. What was it you said about GTAIV? Doesn't feel like GTA? Well WTF is this s**t? Cos it sure don't feel like GTA to me.

 

Anyway you've got your long time grown up fans who like s serious story with just a bit of foolery, and you've got the others, who should just go and mod saints row to include mario bros maps and be on their way.

 

Point is i just dont know how they are going to go bigger and better without making a big crazy mess of a game. V just about got away with it, but as you know there are a lot of haters, probably the same ones who hated Iv but hey. Larger worlds mean longer stories, more crazy side missions, less time spent on what matters and more time spent on exploiting the wishes of the immature millions who'd be happy in a virtual earth sized gameworld with no story at all.

 

Grand Theft Auto needs to mature with the rest of the gaming world and choose which path it is going to go down. Because the direction it is heading is not good for a franchise considered by many the greatest series of all time. I hope i'm wrong.
Please Rockstar follow the likes of the mafia franchise and tell the stories that have gripped the fans since GTA.

Edited by Hullian111
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