Official Mass Effect Topic

[Mister Pink]

I picked this up in the sale on Xbox in November. I'm still on 18% but have put about 30-40hrs in to it. Seems like you are flying through it at 20% in 16hrs.

[dudclub55]

The possibility of a sequel to MEA never seeing the light of day makes me really mad tbh.

What is it with good ass games that I loved this gen not selling well? WD2, DE:MD, Mirror's Edge Catalyst, Dishonored 2 and now this?

[Misumi]

Gamers have a huge sense of entitlement nowadays.

 

If they get anything less than pure perfection, they're going to get angry and make Youtube videos about it so they can pitchfork with the rest of the idiots. I just recently played Deus Ex: MD as well, and you literally have morons leaving negative reviews on it because it runs poorly on their system, which doesn't even meet specs. These are the kinds of idiots we're dealing with.

[dudclub55]

Gamers have a huge sense of entitlement nowadays.

 

If they get anything less than pure perfection, they're going to get angry and make Youtube videos about it so they can pitchfork with the rest of the idiots. I just recently played Deus Ex: MD as well, and you literally have morons leaving negative reviews on it because it runs poorly on their system, which doesn't even meet specs. These are the kinds of idiots we're dealing with.

 

There's also the waves of circle jerkers who immediately classed MEA as a bad game only and only because of its animations.

It's sad how FO4 was cut so much slack despite butchering so many previous defining FO elements and running like complete dogsh*t on console despite looking like a sloppy PS3 game remaster. oh but DE:MD has completely optional microtransactions so f*ck that game.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Synthol

[Misumi]

Yup. And I guarantee most of them never even bought the game. Their favorite Youtube personality just posted a video and they decided right then to hate the game.

 

That's the state of gaming today.

 

Stuff like this was particularly hilarious.

 

 

Implying CD Projekt Red as independent. Riiiiight. CDPR is massive. Independent slavs my ass.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Noale

[dudclub55]

"A couple of independent slavs" el oh el.

what next? R* is just a bunch of guys working in their 5 square meter apartments?

[Misumi]

CD Projekt Red is as big (if not bigger) than major studios like Bioware, EA DICE, and Rockstar North.

 

So by that logic, then Rockstar is just one guy in his garage. Amazing that he made a game like GTAV all by himself.

[feckyerlife]

I'm 16 hours into MEA and I'm only at 20% completion. So far I'm just in love, the visuals and art direction are mesmerizing, it's a shame about the animations though..they can definitely dull the immersion.

Knowing that there's still another potential 30 hours of gameplay makes me feel just so warm and fuzzy inside, about time a game I really liked was that long.

 

It will feel like that until you hit about 25 more hours and then you realize that half of those stories will not be completed during the game and you will start to feel regret that you put all this time in a game that's not even close to being finished and never will be.

CD Projekt Red is as big (if not bigger) than major studios like Bioware, EA DICE, and Rockstar North.

 

So by that logic, then Rockstar is just one guy in his garage. Amazing that he made a game like GTAV all by himself.

Yes but EA can afford to make it better than a "couple of Slavs", they have the cashflow. EA f*cked up because they insisted on Bioware using that sh*tty Frostbite engine. also when CDPR started development on W3 it wasn't nearly that big of a studio as your portraying it to be, a couple of slavs sounds about right.

[Misumi]

Yes but EA can afford to make it better than a "couple of Slavs", they have the cashflow. EA f*cked up because they insisted on Bioware using that sh*tty Frostbite engine. also when CDPR started development on W3 it wasn't nearly that big of a studio as your portraying it to be, a couple of slavs sounds about right.

 

Just before Witcher 3 began development, CDPR was already at 150 employees. When development began for W3, CDPR grew to 250 employees, and W3 further involved over 1,000 third party developers, on a budget of $81 million USD. A number directly from CDPR. Couple of slavs my ass. $81,000,000 surpasses plenty of AAA budgets.

 

CDPR currently has ~700 employees. EA DICE has ~650, and Rockstar North has about 400. Bioware's 2010 estimate put them at 800 employees. That's 7 years ago. Want more perspective? Eidos Montreal has around 300 employees. Treyarch and Sledgehammer Games (Call of Duty) both have around 250-300 employees. Bethesda Game Studios (The dev, not publisher) has less than 200 employees, essentially the same size as CDPR prior to starting W3. So is Bethesda just a couple of yanks to you too? Please...

 

The engine wasn't the problem for MEA (It had already been used before in Bioware's own DA:Inquisition). It was the continuous changes that led the dev team to scramble to make a game. They were doing one thing, and then had to scrap it last minute because some idiot decided to move the game in a new direction. MEA was under development for five years, however due to all the changes, the team reportedly had to build the game in just 18 months.

 

 

In other words:

 

The f*ck are you talking about?

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Noale

[Static]

The engine wasn't the problem for MEA (It had already been used before in Bioware's own DA:Inquisition). It was the continuous changes that led the dev team to scramble to make a game. They were doing one thing, and then had to scrap it last minute because some idiot decided to move the game in a new direction. MEA was under development for five years, however due to all the changes, the team reportedly had to build the game in just 18 months.

 

While you're right about majority of what you said in regards to the continuous changes and the bulk of development being done in the last 18 months, that doesn't negate the fact that Frostbite is a FPS engine first and foremost and trying to design anything other than a FPS on is in fact, difficult. Bioware also had a hard time with it on DA:I, so I'm not sure why you would use that as an example, especially when DA:I has similar problems to ME:A, most of which having to do with Frostbite. I will say that one of the bigger issues seemed to be the switch from 3D Studio Max to Maya while in the in the middle of pre-production, which essentially forced the animation team to re-animate months of work, even thought they ended up reverting back to 3d Studio Max for most of their work anyways.

 

Over the past few years, one of BioWare’s biggest obstacles has also become one of EA’s favorite buzzwords: Frostbite, a video game engine. An engine is a collection of software that can be reused and recycled to make games, often consisting of common features: a physics system, a graphics renderer, a save system, and so on. In the video game industry, Frostbite is known as one of the most powerful engines out there—and one of the hardest to use.

 

Developed by the EA-owned studio DICE, Frostbite is capable of rendering gorgeous graphics and visual effects, but when BioWare first started using it, in 2011, it had never been used to make role-playing games. DICE made first-person shooters like Battlefield, and the Frostbite engine was designed solely to develop those games. When BioWare first got its hands on Frostbite, the engine wasn’t capable of performing the basic functions you’d expect from a role-playing game, like managing party members or keeping track of a player’s inventory. BioWare’s coders had to build almost everything from scratch.

 

(Over the past few months I’ve heard a great deal about Frostbite’s challenges. In August of last year, I went to BioWare Edmonton’s studio and interviewed many of the leads on Dragon Age: Inquisition for my book, which tells the full story of that game. In short, they had a very, very hard time.)

 

By the time BioWare entered pre-production on Mass Effect: Andromeda, the Dragon Age: Inquisition team had built some of the tools that they’d need to make an RPG, but not all of them. Engineers on Andromeda had to design many of their own features from scratch, including their animation rig. “Frostbite is wonderful for rendering and lots of things,” said a person who worked on the game. “But one of the key things that makes it really difficult to use is anything related to animation. Because out of the box, it doesn’t have an animation system.” (Frostbite was later attached to an animation system called ANT, that source said, but it was full of “duct-taped issues.”)

 

 

While describing Frostbite, one top developer on Mass Effect: Andromeda used the analogy of an automobile. Epic’s Unreal Engine, that developer said, is like an SUV, capable of doing lots of things but unable to go at crazy high speeds. The Unity Engine would be a compact car: small, weak, and easy to fit anyplace you’d like. “Frostbite,” the developer said, “is a sports car. Not even a sports car, a Formula 1. When it does something well, it does it extremely well. When it doesn’t do something, it really doesn’t do something.”

 

“Whenever you’re trying to do something that fits the engine—vehicles, for example—Frostbite handles that extremely well,” the developer said. “But when you’re building something that the engine is not made for, this is where it becomes difficult.” Designing the large maps of Andromeda’s planets became a struggle on Frostbite, where the maximum size of a map was initially 100 by 100 kilometers. The Andromeda team needed their maps to be way bigger than that. Other struggles included the streaming system, the save system, and various action-RPG mechanics that Andromeda needed in order to work.

 

“It’s been painful,” said a developer. “The pain started with Dragon Age: Inquisition and continued on with Andromeda as well.”

 

 

 

Sauce, even though most of this is common knowledge to ME fans by now.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Static

[Misumi]

 

The engine wasn't the problem for MEA (It had already been used before in Bioware's own DA:Inquisition). It was the continuous changes that led the dev team to scramble to make a game. They were doing one thing, and then had to scrap it last minute because some idiot decided to move the game in a new direction. MEA was under development for five years, however due to all the changes, the team reportedly had to build the game in just 18 months.

 

While you're right about majority of what you said in regards to the continuous changes and the bulk of development being done in the last 18 months, that doesn't negate the fact that Frostbite is a FPS engine first and foremost and trying to design anything other than a FPS on is in fact, difficult. Bioware also had a hard time with it on DA:I, so I'm not sure why you would use that as an example, especially when DA:I has similar problems to ME:A, most of which having to do with Frostbite

 

Knew someone would bring the Kotaku article here. Already went through that article both when it was posted, and again today after rediscovering it. I'm well aware of how Bioware (and other developers) are having Frostbite shoved on them. However, the Frostbite situation is hardly the big problem here. Plenty of things went wrong. Of course an article as extended as that will highlight the Frostbite problems. Similarly, you could also highlight the writing issues, staff departure issues, etc. At the end of the day, the lack of direction the development faced is what hurt the game most. Things were constantly changing.

 

Example

 

Three people who worked on the game point to one critical moment early in pre-production, when BioWare decided to switch animation programs from 3D Studio Max to Maya, as a move that cost technical animators a great deal of work. Although it was seen as a necessary overhaul by BioWare's leadership -- Autodesk, the company behind both 3DS Max and Maya, was recommending that game developers shift gears -- the animators were upset that it happened during pre-production rather than before they'd started working at all. "All that technology was invalid, simply because we'd used a red pen instead of a blue pen," said one developer, lamenting the months of progress they lost. (Later, some of Andromeda's animators wound up using 3DS Max for a large chunk of their work anyway.)

 

This lack of direction is terrible. They had to crunch majority of development into a year and a half. If they actually had a plan worked out and were able to utilize those five years better, then you can bet the engine choice would have been less of an issue.

 

 

 

Bioware also had a hard time with it on DA:I, so I'm not sure why you would use that as an example, especially when DA:I has similar problems to ME:A, most of which having to do with Frostbite.

 

Don't see why I can't use it? It's the same engine, used for an RPG. By the same company no less. It's the most ideal comparison you will get. And guess what? Whatever problems Bioware had using Frostbite for DA:I, didn't show themselves as badly as the they did in MEA. DA:I showed that an RPG running Frostbite can be done. Meaning MEA had a lot more going on than just the Frostbite issue.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Noale

[Static]

Knew someone would bring the Kotaku article here. Already went through that article both when it was posted, and again today after rediscovering it. I'm well aware of how Bioware (and other developers) are having Frostbite shoved on them. However, the Frostbite situation is hardly the big problem here. Plenty of things went wrong. Of course an article as extended as that will highlight the Frostbite problems. Similarly, you could also highlight the writing issues, staff departure issues, etc. At the end of the day, the lack of direction the development faced is what hurt the game most. Things were constantly changing.

 

Example

 

Three people who worked on the game point to one critical moment early in pre-production, when BioWare decided to switch animation programs from 3D Studio Max to Maya, as a move that cost technical animators a great deal of work. Although it was seen as a necessary overhaul by BioWare's leadership -- Autodesk, the company behind both 3DS Max and Maya, was recommending that game developers shift gears -- the animators were upset that it happened during pre-production rather than before they'd started working at all. "All that technology was invalid, simply because we'd used a red pen instead of a blue pen," said one developer, lamenting the months of progress they lost. (Later, some of Andromeda's animators wound up using 3DS Max for a large chunk of their work anyway.)

 

This lack of direction is terrible. They had to crunch majority of development into a year and a half. If they actually had a plan worked out and were able to utilize those five years better, then you can bet the engine choice would have been less of an issue.

 

 

So you disregard the part of the article that shows using Frostbite was an issue, while at the same time, using the very same article to restate the re-animation issue that I already mentioned as being a a bigger issue than the use of Frostbite?

 

 

I will say that one of the bigger issues seemed to be the switch from 3D Studio Max to Maya while in the in the middle of pre-production, which essentially forced the animation team to re-animate months of work, even thought they ended up reverting back to 3D Studio Max for most of their work anyways.

 

Can't really debate with myself, soooo.....

 

Although, I will say the lack of direction was probably due to the departure of Hudson and Lehainey and the introduction of Marc Walters as the creative director. Not saying Walters is solely responsible for anything, but any time there's a change in management/leadership, it's bound to cause problems.

[Misumi]

You edited that final remark in before I had a chance to see it, soooooo....

 

So you disregard the part of the article that shows using Frostbite was an issue, while at the same time, using the very same article to restate the re-animation issue that I already mentioned as being a a bigger issue than the use of Frostbite?

 

So you link to an article that highlights the issues of Andromeda's development, and cherry pick the part where it talks about the engine issues? Of course Frostbite would be talked about. That's essentially a given. But anyone who thinks that Frostbite caused all the headache with MEA isn't seeing the real issue. The team were limited to just a fraction of the time they were given to develop the game. Time that could have been spent learning to better work with Frostbite.

And I didn't disregard it. In fact, I mention in my own post that I was well aware of the issue of Frostbite being forced upon devs. Maybe you missed that part?

 

What else do I need to say if all of it is in the article already? Do I need to copy and paste everything? There's tons of issues listed there that you can read for yourself.

[Static]

So you link to an article that highlights the issues of Andromeda's development, and cherry pick the part where it talks about the engine issues? Of course Frostbite would be talked about. That's essentially a given. But anyone who thinks that Frostbite caused all the headache with MEA isn't seeing the real issue. The team were limited to just a fraction of the time they were given to develop the game. Time that could have been spent learning to better work with Frostbite.

 

Not sure why you're being so defensive when we're essentially agreeing with each other. And I wasn't cherry-picking, merely highlighting the part of the article that was relevant to the discussion at hand, hence why I bothered even linking the article in its entirety. I don't anyone here said that Frostbite was the sole source for MEA's issues, just a major contributing factor. Yeah, the team did become limited time-wise, but you don't think that having to build essential features from the ground up to implement into Frostbite had anything to do with that? And if Bioware wasn't forced to use Frostbite, they couldve use a more well-rounded engine such as Unreal, thus reducing the time spent of developing the engine. Also according to you, "The engine wasn't the problem for MEA (It had already been used before in Bioware's own DA:Inquisition).", so why would they need even more time to "learn to work with Frostbite" if A) it wasn't a problem to begin with and B) if they already had experience using Frostbite?

 

 

And I didn't disregard it. In fact, I mention in my own post that I was well aware of the issue of Frostbite being forced upon devs. Maybe you missed that part?

 

No, I caught that part and that's the disregard I was referring to.

 

 

What else do I need to say if all of it is in the article already? Do I need to copy and paste everything? There's tons of issues listed there that you can read for yourself.

 

You don't need to say anything, you could just simply acknowledge that forcing a dev to use an engine designed specifically for one genre of games, on a completely different type of game, probably isn't the smartest move and did in fact lead to some issues during MEA's development. And I don't need to re-read an article that I've read a few times already.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Static

[Misumi]

You don't need to say anything, you could just simply acknowledge that forcing a dev to use a engine designed specifically for one genre of games, on a completely different type of game, probably isn't the smartest move and did in fact lead to some issues during MEA's development.

I believe that's what I have just done. And yes, I already know you and I are on the same boat about understanding that MEA had a multitude of issues with development. If I sound defensive, then I apologize. My initial post was rushed, and though I wrote that "The engine wasn't the problem", I didn't mean that as the engine wasn't a problem at all. It was still a problem, just merely stating that it was hardly the lone problem that some people believe. The reason being was this post

 

 

EA f*cked up because they insisted on Bioware using that sh*tty Frostbite engine.

Which to me, implied that Frostbite was behind all of the issues. But in reality, the whole development was a mess.

[Journey_95]

I hope they let this series die. The OT was amazing (yes even ME3 with the DLC's). ME:A was already unnecessary but then they f*cked it up so much and tainted the whole thing. I don't ever want a sequel.

 

Not every IP needs to be milked to death.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Journey_95

[Leftist Bastard]

Mass Effect as a universe has too much potential to just let die. One misstep doesn't mean they should can the whole thing.

[Journey_95]

Mass Effect as a universe has too much potential to just let die. One misstep doesn't mean they should can the whole thing.

This isn't The Elder Scrolls or even Dragon Age. They had a story to tell with the same protagonist and cast of characters and that story ended quite a while ago. There is really no need for more, apart from typical greedy cash grabs which ME:A was.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Journey_95

[Jason]

Speak for your self, I wanted more Mass Effect. Andromeda wasn't unnecessary at all, the world (or galaxy) they made for the series was really interesting and deep, it was more than big enough for more than one story. Andromeda is full of good ideas as well but they messed up the execution. It's not an awful game at all but it was tainted by a few bad ideas (open world zones full of fetch quests for one) but the main issues were technical things, lip sync, animations etc. Combat and the open world traversal with the jetpack were great.

 

It'd be a damn shame if they let it die, great sci-fi video game worlds are rare enough as it is. They do need to go back to the drawing board if/when they get round to revisiting the series though.

[deadx23]

I liked Andromeda it was a good game that I passed, I don't/didn't have any problems with anything.

 

10/10 would buy more

[feckyerlife]

Speak for your self, I wanted more Mass Effect. Andromeda

bingo for me too. I wish they would just at least put out a small dlc to clean up some of the side quests like who the financier was for the Andromeda project or to find out who the Kett guy at the end was. It just sucks, because the way the game end feels like its the start of a new series, only to have EA shut it down.

[Journey_95]

Speak for your self, I wanted more Mass Effect. Andromeda wasn't unnecessary at all, the world (or galaxy) they made for the series was really interesting and deep, it was more than big enough for more than one story. Andromeda is full of good ideas as well but they messed up the execution. It's not an awful game at all but it was tainted by a few bad ideas (open world zones full of fetch quests for one) but the main issues were technical things, lip sync, animations etc. Combat and the open world traversal with the jetpack were great.

 

It'd be a damn shame if they let it die, great sci-fi video game worlds are rare enough as it is. They do need to go back to the drawing board if/when they get round to revisiting the series though.

Actually the main issue is the writing, not the technical stuff. This game had by far Bioware's worst cast of characters yet. Even the much bashed DA2 had at least fantastic characters. But I didn't care about anyone in this game apart from maybe Drax and they straight up suck ass compared to the OT's characters.

 

The story was also generic and boring, the tone was off etc. everything felt safe and of course the horrible open world zones (DA:I all over again) just ruined it completely. The combat was fun but dumbed down with lack of control over your party, no classes etc. Ryder is also such a lame protagonist, Shepard was a badass who you could RP with (paragon/renegade etc.) and instead of that we get Ryder who is just always the generic nice guy and a pussy.

 

Anyway I'm speaking for myself, never said otherwise. I don't think any more Mass Effect is necessary. And Anthem seems like a new interesting sci fi world anyway.

I liked Andromeda it was a good game that I passed, I don't/didn't have any problems with anything.

 

10/10 would buy more

Cool, I give it a 2/10

Edited February 12, 2018 by Journey_95

[Kiffster]

Andromeda is a great game. Thoroughly enjoyed the it just like the previous games. It had some minor issues, but I feel like most people were overly critical of the game.

 

Loved all the alien characters (especially peebee and drax), but I will agree that the humans were pretty much all boring af. Especially Ryder and Cora I think her name is. Ryder is an absolutely terrible protag, one of the worst I've ever seen.

 

Combat was fantastic and the best in the series and I for one loved the open world and exploring the planets and cities (except for the dark forest planet). Hated that I had to travel back and forth between the planets throughout the game just to pick something up or talk to someone to complete side quests though. The game could also have done without all those 'collect x amount of sh*t' tasks on every planet which I didn't bother to complete. Loved the main and character missions though.

 

The final battle was also massively disappointing. At the end I was like "wait that's it??"

 

But overall it is a great game and I don't think it deserved all the hate. It had some truly amazing moments and really wasn't any different from previous games in the series. Would have loved another trilogy, especially with the arrival of the Quarian ark. Hope to see more ME and DA eventually.

 

I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in Anthem. SP games only please!!

[Jonesizzle]

I don't think it's fair to compare the supporting cast from the OT to Andromeda. Mainly because it isn't even close, and the OT has multiple games with DLC to flesh things out. I think it was a huge mistake to ditch Andromeda and a slap in the face to the fans. I figured the game would get more praise as time passed and I think it's safe to say it has. I haven't given it a proper 2nd playthrough, but seeing as how I am doing the finishing touches on my 100th playthrough of Mass Effect, I'll be giving it another go later this year.

 

I honestly thought they was going to give us some sort of DLC. with how the game ended, it's obvious they set it up for some, it's bullsh*t they didn't.

[Themanwiththeplan]

Tempted to give this another go. I can usually only play it for around 10 hours then I get terribly bored and quit. But I would like to see the full story. Is the ending worth it in your opinion? No spoilers please.

[chronic lumbago]

I think the ending was good and pretty much a great example of a well done cliffhanger. The story was fulfilling, finished but still had some unanswered questions and the ending set up a potential sequel in a good way. The epilogue was unusually long and interactive, which is a good thing.

 

Cliffhangers don't necessarily suck if the main story is fleshed out and finished, while still leaving a galaxy of room for a sequel. Andromeda's ending showed where the story will go next. It's a "battle won, war not over" kind of scenario.

[Queen]

Yeah, the ending was great. I was very pleased with it. It definitely whet my appetite for the sequel.

 

Oh wait.

[Journey_95]

Tempted to give this another go. I can usually only play it for around 10 hours then I get terribly bored and quit. But I would like to see the full story. Is the ending worth it in your opinion? No spoilers please.

I don't think its satisfying at all. Its the most incomplete game of the Mass Effect franchise, its like they 100% expected to make a sequel and some DLC's, there are just lots of loose ends

[Misumi]

Well I'd say it's obvious that they were expecting to make a sequel and DLCs. But because some folks decided to take the slight issues and create memes to blow them out of proportion, they convinced everyone the game is a solid 1/10. So now we don't get a sequel or DLC.

 

Maybe in 50 years they'll try again.

[chronic lumbago]

 

Tempted to give this another go. I can usually only play it for around 10 hours then I get terribly bored and quit. But I would like to see the full story. Is the ending worth it in your opinion? No spoilers please.

I don't think its satisfying at all. Its the most incomplete game of the Mass Effect franchise, its like they 100% expected to make a sequel and some DLC's, there are just lots of loose endsBut so was Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 even pretty much skipped the main threat of the Reapers until DLC fixed it.

 

Idk, sometimes people plan to finish the entire thing and have the whole galaxy die in one game so that it's one complete story. Don't people want sequels? Same thing happened with Wolfenstein TNC. 2nd game in the series and people expected to end the whole thing or what? It was always a planned trilogy.

 

But yeah, the foundations they laid for DLC and sequels are pretty much pointless now. I don't think anyone expected that with the exception of some EA douchebag who can pull the cable anytime.