jets ruin all this new vip stuff

[SeveralChickens]

 

Nutduster... Go to YouTube and type in rpg versus jets gta etc.. Thank me and correct yourself later. Stop acting so helpless.

 

 

1. I'm usually the guy victimizing other people with my jet, not being the victim. I go out of my way to take down other jets in particular, then spawn kill the sh*t out of them. Doesn't make it right but it does make me feel better. Every time this argument comes up and I take the anti-jet aside, it is assumed that I'm "mad bro" because I get killed by jets a lot and probably don't even own one. Well... nuh uh. Not the case. I just recognize a balance problem when I see one. Among other things, I recognize that when I'm in a jet, I am borderline unstoppable and can rip through an entire lobby again and again if I feel like it. And the VIP and CEO stuff has just made it worse, since I'm bad sport protected and they can't go passive. Yes, a fine design this is.

 

2. That "RPG vs. jet" bullsh*t is hard to pull off even if you're good at it, which 99% of players are not and never will be, so please, GTFOWTBS, thx. That's not "balance," that's a parlor trick.

 

 

Glad to see that there are still other people out there who possess common sense. Bravo!

[SkylineGTRFreak]

^ I get your point, I'm just saying that imagine how long it would take to get one kill since u'd have to hit the enemy like 3-4 times. "all you have to do is land one hit" that's the problem,when you dogfight good pilot, it's really hard to land one hit, so it would take forever to win a dogfight 10-0.

 

This is different than dogfighting in Battlefield (example) though. You cn't just do endless circles without hitting each other, because GTA (luckily imo) features some unpreditcable variables like turbulences, different weather, etc. Every turn is different from another, so even if you're a better pilot the game may f*ck you over for a split second and you're done because all it takes is one hit. I have yet to encounter a dogfight longer than 2-3 minutes or so (granted, I only dogfighted against randoms mostly). I don't know, I just feel like it could be spiced up by requiring more hits. But it won't happen anyway, so...

[Nutduster]

 

But it sucks.

 

I'm not sure why this is so hard to explain. Just because they did it on purpose doesn't mean it's fun for the majority of players or that it was ever good game design in the first place. If you've played competitive PvP games ever in your life, you should already inherently understand that balanced gameplay is more fun than unbalanced gameplay, for the majority of the participants; it is even (IMO) more fun to dominate a balanced game than an unbalanced one, because it takes more skill and cleverness than simply hammering on the easiest available exploit.

 

Jets are horribly unbalanced against everything else in the sandbox. Ergo, they are bad for the game. That's the whole argument. Trolls, griefers, and even well-meaning pilots who never kill other players who defend it on the grounds of "but muh game style!" really have nothing to say that hasn't already been said a hundred thousand times - and it's been wrong every one of those times, and will continue to be wrong, forever and ever amen. This is a PvP game (most of the time) and the tools used for said PvP play should be balanced insofar as possible for the game not to suck.

 

 

Waste of time reasoning with that guy - he comes into these threads a lot and his arguments are always based on the classic "divine developer" fallacy, where the player assumes that the dev a) foresees every possible outcome b) will react to undesirable outcomes such as an overpowered or imbalanced gameplay element and c) actually cares about such things as design and balance.

 

I assure you, most developers I've known don't really think that much about the effect that their additions will have. They're more the type to take pride in making something they think is cool and that isn't buggy, even if it smashes the gameplay into a million pieces. They didn't arm that plane in that way specifically because they wanted or supported anyone using it that way. They don't refuse to take action because they support the way it currently is. They just don't actually care either way about either us or them, and they implemented Hydras and Lazers in the way that they are because that's what they thought was cool. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

I agree with that, and Rockstar is worse than most. At least with shooter games like Halo (at least the original Bungie titles) you had the feeling that some thought and care was going into most of their decisions. Most weapons offset each other nicely and the most powerful ones had severe limitations (e.g. neutrally located off spawn, very limited ammo and low respawn rate, etc.). GTA is like the polar opposite of that. To some extent it always has been, but that didn't really matter when the game had no PvP component. They needed to hire some competent, smart multiplayer developers to help birth GTA Online, and unfortunately it's clear that they didn't.

 

I don't think this game was ever going to make the MLG circuit, but is it too much to ask that it not have one vehicle that completely trumps every other vehicle and weapon, and completely undermines every single free roam objective? I mean, really, what the hell are they thinking - if anything? Three great updates in the last 9 months and yet you're lucky if your experience is anything other than total sh*t half the time. No wonder people grind VIP work in solo sessions. It's boring but at least there's no chance of a jet coming after you just for lulz.

 

And you're right too, I'm wasting my time here. I guess I like hearing myself talk. But almost all pro-jet arguments boil down to a few stupid points:

1. Git gud (almost no one is "gud" enough to fight off jets from the ground routinely, and literally no one is that "gud" if they're trying to deliver a slow-ass truck full of cargo with a bright red "come kill me" icon)

2. Use a jet yourself (yeah, that's real balanced!)

3. Don't criticize my gameplay style (I wouldn't, except that your gameplay style prevents everyone with any other gameplay style from enjoying the game)

 

About the only person around here who makes any other argument is Furry Monkey, who at least goes with the novel "I don't see this happen and don't really know what you're talking about" approach. Which doesn't win me over either but at least it's an argument.

[Zorvaine]

 

 

Solution: Explosive Restricted Freemode Lobbies.

 

A new experience where players won't sticky bomb you from their cars, instead they'll have to ram and shoot you with their SMGs.

Jets would have their explosive cannons disabled. Player's owned explosives would still be owned but greyed out. Unable to be used in that lobby type.

 

It would give the game a fresh new experience and make it look similar as to how it's shown in Rockstar's trailers. No more RPG only abusers. No more instant deaths.

HAVE ALL OF MY LIKES PLEASE

 

YES

 

Ah yes, the karuma troll's dream.

 

Yes, there's problems with everything.

 

 

Which brings me to my other solution. The Armored Kuruma should have it so that it's passengers cannot shoot out of it. It's illogical to have one-way bullet penetration.

The Duke of Death has it's back bulletproof where it's passengers couldn't shoot through nor could be shot through by people outside. It's front however was open and it worked both ways. Ironically, they removed it from Online.

 

The Armored Kuruma is a defense vehicle. It would be balanced if it's bullet penetration or in this case, impenetration worked both ways. The same effect should be applied to the back of the Zentorno, Jester, Entity etc.

 

I have a thousand suggestions on improving and balancing this game. Unfortunately I don't have any influence to change the way GTAO or it's people are but that doesn't stop me from still voicing my opinion every now and then.

My ideas are usually unbiased and non-selfish but of course people being people, they always seem to take offense into everything and overthink the fact that I'm hiding some hidden agenda. I simply want the game to be balanced. I know how to do that. Some will agree. Some will disagree. In the end, I'm just an individual. If I was rich, I'd walk into Rockstar HQ and arrange a sit-down with one of their development managers and showcase my vision of a better GTA.

[l Marksman God l]

 

^ I get your point, I'm just saying that imagine how long it would take to get one kill since u'd have to hit the enemy like 3-4 times. "all you have to do is land one hit" that's the problem,when you dogfight good pilot, it's really hard to land one hit, so it would take forever to win a dogfight 10-0.

 

This is different than dogfighting in Battlefield (example) though. You cn't just do endless circles without hitting each other, because GTA (luckily imo) features some unpreditcable variables like turbulences, different weather, etc. Every turn is different from another, so even if you're a better pilot the game may f*ck you over for a split second and you're done because all it takes is one hit. I have yet to encounter a dogfight longer than 2-3 minutes or so (granted, I only dogfighted against randoms mostly). I don't know, I just feel like it could be spiced up by requiring more hits. But it won't happen anyway, so...

 

2-3 minutes? So you probably only fight noobs.. a good pilot vs a good pilot normally takes a good amount of time to have a chance to hit the enemy; I once spent like 5 minutes against APEX TG (A good pilot) to get ONE kill, that's why I'm saying they shouldn't remove explosive cannons, it would take forever to end a dogfight

Edited June 8, 2016 by l Marksman God l

[BitBasher]

^ He brings up a excellent point though. Players can also attack you in buzzards, savages, insurgents, vakyries... Turreted limos.. If someone is determined to kill you and smart enough to utilize any of those tools to do it... Jets aren't the problem.

This is a horrible argument.

 

"Because there are things other than jets, jets aren't the problem!"

 

This is patently false. Just because other things can kill you does not mean that jets are not a problem. Jets are still the biggest problem completely regardless of those other things. In fact, all of those other things are far easier to deal with than jets.

 

It's like saying that cancer isn't a problem that needs to be solved since poison and heart attacks can kill you as well. No. They are all things that can kill you, and that doesn't mean any of them should be ignored.

[Fox2Quick]

 

^ He brings up a excellent point though. Players can also attack you in buzzards, savages, insurgents, vakyries... Turreted limos.. If someone is determined to kill you and smart enough to utilize any of those tools to do it... Jets aren't the problem.

This is a horrible argument.

 

"Because there are things other than jets, jets aren't the problem!"

 

This is patently false. Just because other things can kill you does not mean that jets are not a problem. Jets are still the biggest problem completely regardless of those other things. In fact, all of those other things are far easier to deal with than jets.

 

It's like saying that cancer isn't a problem that needs to be solved since poison and heart attacks can kill you as well. No. They are all things that can kill you, and that doesn't mean any of them should be ignored.

Your metaphor doesn't work. You can't use poison to kill a heart attack. Anything that can be used against you, can also be used on your attacker.

It's like people have no imagination.

 

Aside from that, I see many people complaining about jets as a whole. That's fine and dandy and is totally arguable, but isn't this topic about jets ruining VIP work?

 

As a VIP, you have a crew. You and your crew are supposed to watch each other's backs and work together toward a common goal. I don't see people complaining about squads of jets, it's always just one asshole at a time, maybe two. one or two jets shouldn't be able to take up the complete energy of a group of 4. It's not like you need to kill them outright. All you have to do is distract them or keep them on the defense until you finish transporting goods and then everyone can gang up on the jet.

 

IMO, it doesn't even make sense for people to expect individuals on foot to have a fair chance against an armed military aircraft. Seriously, think about the logic. Yeah, someone can put work into their skills and be damn good at holding jets off, but as life goes, there's always exceptions to the general rule.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Fox2Quick

[Robaldinio]

^ He brings up a excellent point though. Players can also attack you in buzzards, savages, insurgents, vakyries... Turreted limos.. If someone is determined to kill you and smart enough to utilize any of those tools to do it... Jets aren't the problem.

If by "excellent" you mean 'invalid/irrelevant'.

 

We are discussing the imbalanced nature of jets. You may kill me once with any of those other vehicles you mentioned but I'll make sure you don't kill me twice and I'll most likely kill you back because all of those things are much more balanced than jets.

 

If you come at me in a jet however, there is basically f*ck all I can do to kill you (unless you hover in a Hydra while I fire a rocket at you).

 

Edit: And speaking of playing smart, I've found that the more tactical I am, the more I get royally f*cked over by the game. Retards are rewarded so f*cking hard it's unbelievable.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Robaldinio

[Hunter]

IMO, it doesn't even make sense for people to expect individuals on foot to have a fair chance against an armed military aircraft. Seriously, think about the logic. Yeah, someone can put work into their skills and be damn good at holding jets off, but as life goes, there's always exceptions to the general rule.

Depends what you mean by "fair". Fair =/= equal, in my opinion.

 

Vehicles obviously should have the upper hand, but they can do that without ruining stuff for everyone who doesn't also fly jets.

 

Take my Savage; I have a large advantage over people on the ground in that, yet can be dealt with easily by people on the ground who know what they're doing.

 

If anything too easily, but I still get an advantage from it.

[BitBasher]

it doesn't even make sense for people to expect individuals on foot to have a fair chance against an armed military aircraft

Thanks, that's the entire point many people, including myself, are trying to get across. Jets are inherently unbalanced compared to any of the other options. Thanks for admitting it.

[Fox2Quick]

 

it doesn't even make sense for people to expect individuals on foot to have a fair chance against an armed military aircraft

Thanks, that's the entire point many people, including myself, are trying to get across. Jets are inherently unbalanced compared to any of the other options. Thanks for admitting it.They are overpowered for unprepared players who think they can rely on Easymode weapons. Everyone complaining about it is ignoring basic reason. If jets were so easily taken down by single people, then there would be no point in using one. It takes strategy and that's not a bad thing.

 

Again, the topic is discussing jets in relation to VIP work. Jets are a minor nuisance to lone wolves. For crews of 3 or 4 actively working together, with instant access to ammo, armor, stat boosts, and armed vehicles, jets are a non issue.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Fox2Quick

[BitBasher]

Again, the topic is discussing jets in relation to VIP work. Jets are a minor nuisance to lone wolves. For crews of 3 or 4 actively working together, with instant access to ammo, armor, stat boosts, and armed vehicles, jets are a non issue.

Would you be okay with a hit scan weapon that could kill jets in one shot, had the same range as a jet cannon, cost the same to buy as the jet costs to buy and cost the same amount per shot as a jet costs to call in?

 

This would be perfectly balanced so you would be in support of it, right?

[Hunter]

Not everything's black and white, you know?

 

Something like an Insurgent has a considerable advantage over someone on foot, but can be brought down by the person on foot. Why can't the jets be like that?

 

Why is it either "equal footing/weak", or "ridiculously overpowered"?

[Fox2Quick]

 

Again, the topic is discussing jets in relation to VIP work. Jets are a minor nuisance to lone wolves. For crews of 3 or 4 actively working together, with instant access to ammo, armor, stat boosts, and armed vehicles, jets are a non issue.

Would you be okay with a hit scan weapon that could kill jets in one shot, had the same range as a jet cannon, cost the same to buy as the jet costs to buy and cost the same amount per shot as a jet costs to call in?

 

This would be perfectly balanced so you would be in support of it, right?

What is its weakness? Everything has a weakness. Jets aren't necessarily able to make slow passes at you, unless they're really skilled hydra pilots. They're up in the sky, where there is way less cover compared to ground players. If you're gonna get into semantics, don't forget how deep they go.

Not everything's black and white, you know?

 

Something like an Insurgent has a considerable advantage over someone on foot, but can be brought down by the person on foot. Why can't the jets be like that?

 

Why is it either "equal footing/weak", or "ridiculously overpowered"?

The jets are like that. I don't see anyone saying they're impossible to take down (and not be exaggerating). They can be taken down, with thought and effort. That's what I've been saying but some of you are so insistent on just complaining, that you've been ignoring those part of my posts and just picking things to be combative about.

[Hunter]

 

What is its weakness? Everything has a weakness. Jets aren't necessarily able to make slow passes at you, unless they're really skilled hydra pilots. They're up in the sky, where there is way less cover compared to ground players. If you're gonna get into semantics, don't forget how deep they go.

Not everything's black and white, you know?

 

Something like an Insurgent has a considerable advantage over someone on foot, but can be brought down by the person on foot. Why can't the jets be like that?

 

Why is it either "equal footing/weak", or "ridiculously overpowered"?

The jets are like that. I don't see anyone saying they're impossible to take down (and not be exaggerating). They can be taken down, with thought and effort. That's what I've been saying but some of you are so insistent on just complaining, that you've been ignoring those part of my posts and just picking things to be combative about.

 

 

They're unable to not be going slow lol.

 

Even a Hind helicopter is a good 40-50mph faster than the Hydra we have now. Probably even old WWII planes went faster.

 

A Harrier goes at 700mph. Bearing that in mind, 120-150mph (if that) is more than slow enough for me.

 

As for the part that's aimed at me, if you're against a good pilot, nothing short of another jet will work. Once again I'll bring my video up (which nobody has answered) and ask what you would do, if you were on the ground in the situation below. What technique am I missing?

 

 

Edited June 9, 2016 by Icantthinkofonew

[rlk232]

1)Let CEOs use the vehicles they paid a lot for to help in the work- cough Cargobob 2 mill and effing useless, cough.

2)Force other players to pay an entry fee to get something, e.g. put up 10k to get the bonus when blowing up the cargo etc. No reason this cannot be done.

3)STOP REVEALING THE location of the contraband as soon as I pick it up, ffs.

4)Force the Tugboat to go faster than 1.5 mph.

Edited June 9, 2016 by rlk232

[Hunter]

I did a little looking into things as well. The fastest non-jet WWII aircraft I could find (the Nazis made some really weird-looking early jets) went at 490mph.

 

The most a Hydra can do in GTA V is 140-50mph, if that lol.

 

This thing goes at Hydra speed (150mph):

 

 

Being too fast isn't a weakness jets have at all.

[Fox2Quick]

 

What is its weakness? Everything has a weakness. Jets aren't necessarily able to make slow passes at you, unless they're really skilled hydra pilots. They're up in the sky, where there is way less cover compared to ground players. If you're gonna get into semantics, don't forget how deep they go.

 

Not everything's black and white, you know?

 

Something like an Insurgent has a considerable advantage over someone on foot, but can be brought down by the person on foot. Why can't the jets be like that?

 

Why is it either "equal footing/weak", or "ridiculously overpowered"?

The jets are like that. I don't see anyone saying they're impossible to take down (and not be exaggerating). They can be taken down, with thought and effort. That's what I've been saying but some of you are so insistent on just complaining, that you've been ignoring those part of my posts and just picking things to be combative about.

 

They're unable to not be going slow lol.

 

Even a Hind helicopter is a good 40-50mph faster than the Hydra we have now. Probably even old WWII planes went faster.

 

A Harrier goes at 700mph. Bearing that in mind, 120-150mph (if that) is more than slow enough for me.

 

As for the part that's aimed at me, if you're against a good pilot, nothing short of another jet will work. Once again I'll bring my video up (which nobody has answered) and ask what you would do, if you were on the ground in the situation below. What technique am I missing?

 

I did answer it. You're with a crew. A pilot can't dive bomb 4 at once unless they're in the same vehicle. It's pretty simple.

[Razgriz67]

 

^ He brings up a excellent point though. Players can also attack you in buzzards, savages, insurgents, vakyries... Turreted limos.. If someone is determined to kill you and smart enough to utilize any of those tools to do it... Jets aren't the problem.

If by "excellent" you mean 'invalid/irrelevant'.

 

We are discussing the imbalanced nature of jets. You may kill me once with any of those other vehicles you mentioned but I'll make sure you don't kill me twice and I'll most likely kill you back because all of those things are much more balanced than jets.

 

If you come at me in a jet however, there is basically f*ck all I can do to kill you (unless you hover in a Hydra while I fire a rocket at you).

 

Edit: And speaking of playing smart, I've found that the more tactical I am, the more I get royally f*cked over by the game. Retards are rewarded so f*cking hard it's unbelievable.

 

 

You sir then dont know how to defend yourself.

 

Homing rockets I agree are for the most part useless. only chance you have is if they fail to kill you and you start tracking them instantly once they pass. or they are concentrating on someone else and you wait for them to pass their target. you wonna get a jet when the pilot is thinking about coming for another strafe

 

 

But you can take one down with an RPG or Grenade Launcher with good timing, my former friend got very good from the times I sneaked into his lobby and strafed run him while he was doing Piracy

Edited June 9, 2016 by razgriz67

[Hunter]

 

I did answer it. You're with a crew. A pilot can't dive bomb 4 at once unless they're in the same vehicle. It's pretty simple.

 

I'm not talking about having a small army lol. You're on your own, and you're on the ground. What do you do (in that video)?

 

Besides, even with a crew, the most you'll hit a jet with is sniper rounds. It'll kill you all a couple of times, smoke, replace, then come back for more.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Icantthinkofonew

[We Are Ninja]

...You're with a crew. A pilot can't dive bomb 4 at once unless they're in the same vehicle. It's pretty simple.

Dude. WTF are you talking about? A pilot can blanket an entire city block in fire and explosions... He can take out a lot more than four people. And even if he can't, he'll get the survivors on his inevitable, subsequent passes. Jets ruin free roam because there are no reliable countermeasures. Edited June 9, 2016 by We Are Ninja

[Fox2Quick]

The topic isn't about solo play. And as I said before, you don't need to kill him. You only need to keep him occoupied while you do your missions.

[Hunter]

The topic isn't about solo play. And as I said before, you don't need to kill him. You only need to keep him occoupied while you do your missions.

The topic is titled "jets ruin VIP work". VIP work can be done solo, mostly. It's very valid. But I won't bother asking what you'd do again. I don't think I'll get a reply off anyone.

 

As for a crew keeping a jet pilot occupied, I think I might be missing something?

 

Jet blows up important vehicle/package, and the thing is ruined. Then it proceeds to spawn-kill until finally being made to smoke; at which point the pilot will go and get a brand new one (I can do that in 30-20 seconds).

 

How exactly is a crew going to stop me blowing up some slow old van, short of them getting jets themselves?

[BitBasher]

The topic isn't about solo play. And as I said before, you don't need to kill him. You only need to keep him occoupied while you do your missions.

Okay then how can you "keep a jet occupied" all he has to do is land a single bullet on your slow moving vehicle assigned to you on a mission? While the rest of the lobby on the ground also knows your location and you are a target? Even better how do you defend your Cuban 400 or Tug (or Cargobob!) for a drop off?

Edited June 9, 2016 by BitBasher

[We Are Ninja]

The worst part about jets and CEO work is the fact that they don't really get anything for destroying the crates aside from the satisfaction of knowing that they ruined someone else's hard work. I guess that even if you don't have a huge dick in real life, you can compensate by being one in a video game...

[Fox2Quick]

If you guys can't read all of the posts, then you can have fun being redundant on your own. I've already answered the things you're asking.

[Hunter]

If you guys can't read all of the posts, then you can have fun being redundant on your own. I've already answered the things you're asking.

No you haven't lol. Don't be spicy just because you're being challenged in a debate about some virtual planes.

 

How will your crew keep someone like me occupied, without resorting to jets themselves?

 

Don't feel the need to answer, if you're really that bothered by a little debate lol.

[Fox2Quick]

 

If you guys can't read all of the posts, then you can have fun being redundant on your own. I've already answered the things you're asking.

No you haven't lol. Don't be spicy just because you're being challenged in a debate about some virtual planes.

 

How will your crew keep someone like me occupied, without resorting to jets themselves?

 

Don't feel the need to answer, if you're really that bothered by a little debate lol.

Page 7

[Hunter]

This?

 

Personally, I think most people rely too much on explosives. As far as CEO work goes, you're already in a group of people working together. If another player is THAT persistent in their jet, two crew members should be able to come together and take care of it real quick with heavy snipers or even mini guns.

Or use the armed insurgent with a savage or buzzard escort. Jets can only shoot in one direction at a time, don't have copilot/passenger seats for assistance, and are somewhat limited to making passes if they don't want to be Swiss cheese. Take advantage of those things. When delivering and acquiring crates, stay local to each other, but don't be too close. Splitting the focus of a jet on two seperate targets makes it easy pickings, in my experience.

 

Method 1 (sniping): I'll go straight for the Tug or van or whatever, and blow it up. If you're lucky I might smoke a little afterwards; in which case I'll just fly off for 20 seconds and get a new one, just ready to repeat the cycle.

 

Method 2 (helicopter and Insurgent): I'll go straight for the important vehicle or crate or whatever, and guess what I'll do? I'll blow it up. Since I'll be faster than both the Insurgent and helicopter, I'll get that done without a worry.

 

Afterwards, I will dive bomb the helicopter (like this):

 

 

By then I might be smoking, if you're lucky. In that case, 30 seconds to get a new jet, finish the Insurgent afterwards. Now the crew's back where they started.

 

All this is of course assuming that you have this large crew anyway. At any rate, they still won't stop a good jet pilot.

[BitBasher]

This is your only post on page 7:

 

 

Personally, I think most people rely too much on explosives. As far as CEO work goes, you're already in a group of people working together. If another player is THAT persistent in their jet, two crew members should be able to come together and take care of it real quick with heavy snipers or even mini guns.

 

Or use the armed insurgent with a savage or buzzard escort. Jets can only shoot in one direction at a time, don't have copilot/passenger seats for assistance, and are somewhat limited to making passes if they don't want to be Swiss cheese. Take advantage of those things. When delivering and acquiring crates, stay local to each other, but don't be too close. Splitting the focus of a jet on two seperate targets makes it easy pickings, in my experience.

Nowhere in this post does it address how someone gets a slow van through the city while a jet is after them while their position is announced to all the players in the lobby. The jet is not the only adversary and they cannot just take their time and focus on the jet.

 

You know you do not get to pick the vehicles you drive in a large chunk of box missions, right? When your drop off is in a Cuban, Tug or Cargobob what then?