jets ruin all this new vip stuff

[fSpiral]

Dense patch of concrete... That alone makes reading all this nonsense worth it. Theres no argument that exists to defend jets being the way they are. Its common sense.

[bloatedsack]

The F&F CEO update has taken the game to a new level, and trying to deliver 29 crates on a Tug boat into the ocean and suddenly having three jets swarm you is about as fun as drying wet bologna in a kiddie pool.

 

I can't say I've ever experienced the latter, but you seem to have direct experience with it...

[Nutduster]

The F&F CEO update has taken the game to a new level, and trying to deliver 29 crates on a Tug boat into the ocean and suddenly having three jets swarm you is about as fun as drying wet bologna in a kiddie pool.

 

 

 

 

Exactly. But it's balanced, you see, because the jet can be made to start smoking after "only" 6 or 7 hits with a heavy sniper. That will surely protect your $2 million cargo.

 

Most people here really have no clue what it would take to re-balance free roam properly. Hell, Rockstar doesn't, I don't know why I'd expect more of their player base. But there are so many activities and gameplay options in free roam that it's a nightmare of a tightrope to walk, getting it all to sort of work together, and nothing to break anything else. I don't know whether to be impressed that most of it SORT OF works, or to be more depressed that the fighter jet is still a thing. A jet you can own, replace at your whim forever and ever, have delivered to within half a mile of your location no matter where you are, that moves faster in three dimensions than anything else moves in two, that has the most powerful weapon in the game - with infinite ammo! - mounted on it. But hey, it is kind of fragile, when you can shoot it (which is seldom), and it takes more skill than "none" to fly it well. Much balance. Such wow.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Nutduster

[bloatedsack]

But.. realistic steak and jets!

[fear_the_nut70]

 

The other alternative is losing the explosive cannons. Missiles can be avoided, and the locking doesn't work on CEO vehicles. Then you can enjoy pumping tons of rounds into airborne vehicles until they drop, and the miss rate against ground vehicles is significantly increased.

 

Not a bad idea actually. Remove cannons from the game? Definitely no; but maybe remove them only on CEO jobs would be quite fun for both sides, I love using non-lock missiles against air enemies that aren't on jets.

 

 

This is a terrible idea. The cannons are the man weapon used in dogfights. Take them out of the game, and dogfighting then disappears.

 

there's nothing wrong with the jets in the game. if you can't handle getting killed a few times go play pokemon or the sims.

 

Thank you for your detailed arguments. I've been fully persuaded that there's nothing wrong with the jets.

 

Oh wait, sorry. My bad, you didn't actually make any arguments. Ignored.

 

 

This is the 83 person he has ignored since Tuesday. You should feel honored.

 

there's nothing wrong with the jets in the game. if you can't handle getting killed a few times go play pokemon or the sims.

 

Even though I've had my $240k cargo destroyed and been blasted by Hydras on a number of delivery runs...I do not think I would want it another way. It is my own fault for letting my guard down. I knew the risk and just have to be smarter.

 

 

I drew the same conclusion last night when a jet took me out. What people don't understand its that if this became really easy to make these pickups and deliveries, we would quickly lose interest. With a little practice, that is exactly what happened in the missions as beating NPC's is pretty straight forward. It is the dynamic of the human with skills the equal of your own that not only makes this mode different, but more challenging.

[Azarael]

 

This is a terrible idea. The cannons are the man weapon used in dogfights. Take them out of the game, and dogfighting then disappears.

 

Decided to press "View this post anyway?" and I wasn't disappointed: a strawman!

 

No one said anything about removing cannons!

 

We were talking about removing explosive rounds!

 

Not only that, your ass either missed or deliberately ignored the part where I talked about keeping dogfighting in the game! Protip: it's right here - http://gtaforums.com/topic/857126-jets-ruin-all-this-new-vip-stuff/?p=1068845029

 

Today we learned that when you ignore someone, it's never ever a good idea to peek at one of their posts to see whether or not they've managed to grow a brain in the meantime. Won't make that mistake again. I really wish you could have people moderated on this forum for cherry picking one statement, completely misrepresenting it and then attacking that.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Azarael

[fear_the_nut70]

 

 

 

 

It's a f*cking military jet, why should be easy to defend against one?

 

 

Because GAMEPLAY and BALANCE, you dense patch of concrete. Utterly amazing how many times this circular argument has gone around and around. Realism needs to take a backseat to balance every time. Failing that - and if you can't stand to have a fighter jet that isn't just like the genuine article - they should remove it from GTA entirely, because it unbalances everything.

 

It's funny too that this is always one of the go-to arguments for jet pilots. "Waahhh, it's a fighter jet, it shouldn't be easy to fight off from the ground!" Yeah, well - in real life fighter jets aren't used that much against infantry anyway, because they aren't good at it. They don't go slow enough to aim properly at a guy on foot, and they don't have infinite exploding machine gun rounds. The monstrosity known as the Lazer or Hydra is already a complete work of fiction. So yes, balance it out, because in its current form it sucks.

 

 

As you know this is NOT my argument. The thin shell on that thing such that a bug fart will cause it to explode IS the balance. That's what requires a high level of skill when killing people in a landscape cluttered with buildings. Same think with the sniper rifle which does incredible damage to a Hydra. Rock Star actually put a lot of thought into balancing this weapon, but for those that hate jets, it will never be enough.

 

 

...because they failed at balancing it. As anyone with a functioning brain stem who has actually played the game already knows. So tired of these disingenuous bullsh*t arguments from people who probably spend 80% of their time in jets. Give me a f*cking break. I've played the game for 2 1/2 years, logging god knows how many hours; I've gotten thousands of kills with jets, and I've destroyed probably hundreds of them myself, using all types of weapons. And none of which has changed my opinion in the slightest. They're overpowered, period. They are unbalanced, period. If you disagree with that, you're some combination of stupid, oblivious, and dishonest.

 

For f*ck's sake, they're not even balanced when you're directly fighting them - with ANY other vehicle, with ANY other weapon. Let alone when you're not fighting back and instead just running for your life with a bunch of CEO cargo or trying to do VIP work or free roam events, or whatever else in this game requires actual attention, and not standing in place firing rocket after rocket helplessly at a guy dive-bombing you from straight above.

 

 

"because they failed at balancing it. As anyone with a functioning brain stem who has actually played the game already knows."

 

Stopped reading right there. Your posts are usually well thought out, devoid of insults. Reading the various comments, and I have read them all, it is apparent that reasonable minds can disagree. Lose this kind of language from your posts if you want a better exchange in the future.

Edited June 10, 2016 by fear_the_nut70

[hyperar]

This is a terrible idea. The cannons are the man weapon used in dogfights. Take them out of the game, and dogfighting then disappears.

You keep mentioning dogfights, yet i still having seen one, everytime there's a jet involved on free roam, is griefing other players, so i get that this "dogfights" you mention are pretty rare, which by no means is more important than the whole free roam scene.

[fear_the_nut70]

 

 

This is a terrible idea. The cannons are the man weapon used in dogfights. Take them out of the game, and dogfighting then disappears.

 

Decided to press "View this post anyway?" and I wasn't disappointed: a strawman!

 

No one said anything about removing cannons!

 

We were talking about removing explosive rounds!

 

Not only that, your ass either missed or deliberately ignored the part where I talked about keeping dogfighting in the game!

 

Today we learned that when you ignore someone, it's never ever a good idea to peek at one of their posts to see whether or not they've managed to grow a brain in the meantime.

 

 

No one has suggested removing the cannons? Are you sure about that?

 

I don't think that you know what a straw man is. You might want to avoid using that phrase.

 

This is a terrible idea. The cannons are the man weapon used in dogfights. Take them out of the game, and dogfighting then disappears.

You keep mentioning dogfights, yet i still having seen one, everytime there's a jet involved on free roam, is griefing other players, so i get that this "dogfights" you mention are pretty rare, which by no means is more important than the whole free roam scene.

 

 

This mess of a response is highly flawed. You extrapolate generally from your anecdotal observations, huh?. Did you ever think to yourself, maybe my experience isn't the same as others? How would you even portend to know how common dog fights are? Did you conduct a study? Do you have data from Rock Star? I know of crews that have formed air forces that have squared off against each other in FM.

 

No, this response needs to go back to formula. Please try harder.

Edited June 10, 2016 by fear_the_nut70

[hyperar]

This mess of a response is highly flawed. You extrapolate generally from your anecdotal observations, huh?. Did you ever think to yourself, maybe my experience isn't the same as others? How would even portend to know how common dog fights are? Did you conduct a study? Do you have data from Rock Star? I know of crews that have formed air forces that have squared off against each other in FM.

 

No, this response needs to go back to formula. Please try harder.

So basically, your answer is "no no because i say so", didn't expect much more from you anyway.

[bloatedsack]

 

 

The other alternative is losing the explosive cannons. Missiles can be avoided, and the locking doesn't work on CEO vehicles. Then you can enjoy pumping tons of rounds into airborne vehicles until they drop, and the miss rate against ground vehicles is significantly increased.

 

Not a bad idea actually. Remove cannons from the game? Definitely no; but maybe remove them only on CEO jobs would be quite fun for both sides, I love using non-lock missiles against air enemies that aren't on jets.

 

 

This is a terrible idea. The cannons are the man weapon used in dogfights. Take them out of the game, and dogfighting then disappears.

 

Dog fighting disappears? Good, then maybe the "expert" pilots will retreat to a game that was designed with aerial combat in mind.

 

Flying in this game has all the nuance of Top Gun for the NES, it's simply not difficult. Master a few muscle memory moves and altitudes at which to climb and suddenly you too can be Hans Rudel.

 

Tell ya what, how about we weaken jets to where a few strafes with a regular minigun blows 'em out of the sky (or 2 heavy sniper to smoking, 3 heavy sniper to explode), and then we can just set the Hydra and Lazer to miniguns instead of explosive rounds and everyone wins?

[hyperar]

Dog fighting disappears? Good, then maybe the "expert" pilots will retreat to a game that was designed with aerial combat in mind.

 

Flying in this game has all the nuance of Top Gun for the NES, it's simply not difficult. Master a few muscle memory moves and altitudes at which to climb and suddenly you too can be Hans Rudel.

 

Tell ya what, how about we weaken jets to where a few strafes with a regular minigun blows 'em out of the sky (or 2 heavy sniper to smoking, 3 heavy sniper to explode), and then we can just set the Hydra and Lazer to miniguns instead of explosive rounds and everyone wins?

Not that anyone will notice "dogfighters" are gone, the two of them

Edited June 10, 2016 by hyperar

[fear_the_nut70]

 

This mess of a response is highly flawed. You extrapolate generally from your anecdotal observations, huh?. Did you ever think to yourself, maybe my experience isn't the same as others? How would even portend to know how common dog fights are? Did you conduct a study? Do you have data from Rock Star? I know of crews that have formed air forces that have squared off against each other in FM.

 

No, this response needs to go back to formula. Please try harder.

So basically, your answer is "no no because i say so", didn't expect much more from you anyway.

 

 

That isn't even what I said. I have been in all kinds of dog fights because i like doing them. I know of lots of people (not a coincidence) who feel the same way. I tend to cut people a break when I think English is not their first language, because I know how hard it is to learn another language, but if you are going to be obnoxious when it is obvious you didn't grasp the point, I think the gloves might come off here. Reread a few times and see if you can better grasp my point. Then we will talk again.

[Guest]

I can honestly say I've never seen jet dog fighting, ever let's not pretend that's what jets are used for

[fear_the_nut70]

 

 

 

The other alternative is losing the explosive cannons. Missiles can be avoided, and the locking doesn't work on CEO vehicles. Then you can enjoy pumping tons of rounds into airborne vehicles until they drop, and the miss rate against ground vehicles is significantly increased.

 

Not a bad idea actually. Remove cannons from the game? Definitely no; but maybe remove them only on CEO jobs would be quite fun for both sides, I love using non-lock missiles against air enemies that aren't on jets.

 

 

This is a terrible idea. The cannons are the man weapon used in dogfights. Take them out of the game, and dogfighting then disappears.

 

Dog fighting disappears? Good, then maybe the "expert" pilots will retreat to a game that was designed with aerial combat in mind.

 

Flying in this game has all the nuance of Top Gun for the NES, it's simply not difficult. Master a few muscle memory moves and altitudes at which to climb and suddenly you too can be Hans Rudel.

 

Tell ya what, how about we weaken jets to where a few strafes with a regular minigun blows 'em out of the sky (or 2 heavy sniper to smoking, 3 heavy sniper to explode), and then we can just set the Hydra and Lazer to miniguns instead of explosive rounds and everyone wins?

 

 

"Dog fighting disappears? Good, then maybe the "expert" pilots will retreat to a game that was designed with aerial combat in mind."

 

You mean like this game (and don't confuse "this isn't primarily a game centered around dog fighting" with "the mechanics of the game clearly allow for it." After all, we both would agree this is a sandbox game and this is just one of the many things you can do).

 

"Flying in this game has all the nuance of Top Gun for the NES, it's simply not difficult. Master a few muscle memory moves and altitudes at which to climb and suddenly you too can be Hans Rudel".

 

Nothing in this game is hard to do. It's almost all one touch made easy for the kiddies. Is shooting someone hard when all you have to do is press one button and the game aims for you? How about driving when there is one button for gas, one for brake, etc? Yes the combat roll is complex, two buttons, but otherwise, this game was made easy for the kiddies. I know you disagree, but divided attention in a plane that blows up when you touch pretty much anything flown at high speeds in a cluttered city is as hard as anything in this game.

 

"Tell ya what, how about we weaken jets to where a few strafes with a regular minigun blows 'em out of the sky (or 2 heavy sniper to smoking, 3 heavy sniper to explode), and then we can just set the Hydra and Lazer to miniguns instead of explosive rounds and everyone wins?"

 

Your problem here is two-fold. You continue to ignore that the jets were supposed to be the most powerful thing in the game, because well, they are jets. This is reflected in the cost. There is no expectation that they would be equal to other in game vehicles. It's blatantly obvious you just don't like jets because that isn't how you want to play the game and you don't want to be bothered by others who do. As I have explained many times, THAT IS GTA!!. Dueling pistol guy doesn't want to deal with bullet proof helmet wearing Kuruma guy. Welcome to GTA my friend.

I can honestly say I've never seen jet dog fighting, ever let's not pretend that's what jets are used for

 

I have been in hundreds of these fights. If you are reading my comment to mean "that is primarily" what they are used for, then you misread my remark.

Edited June 10, 2016 by fear_the_nut70

[hyperar]

That isn't even what I said. I have been in all kinds of dog fights because i like doing them. I know of lots of people (not a coincidence) who feel the same way. I tend to cut people a break when I think English is not their first language, because I know how hard it is to learn another language, but if you are going to be obnoxious when it is obvious you didn't grasp the point, I think the gloves might come off here. Reread a few times and see if you can better grasp my point. Then we will talk again.

Childish denial, insults and attempts to discredit me. I get that it may me easier than actually post an argument, but still.

[Nutduster]

 

 

 

As you know this is NOT my argument. The thin shell on that thing such that a bug fart will cause it to explode IS the balance. That's what requires a high level of skill when killing people in a landscape cluttered with buildings. Same think with the sniper rifle which does incredible damage to a Hydra. Rock Star actually put a lot of thought into balancing this weapon, but for those that hate jets, it will never be enough.

 

 

...because they failed at balancing it. As anyone with a functioning brain stem who has actually played the game already knows. So tired of these disingenuous bullsh*t arguments from people who probably spend 80% of their time in jets. Give me a f*cking break. I've played the game for 2 1/2 years, logging god knows how many hours; I've gotten thousands of kills with jets, and I've destroyed probably hundreds of them myself, using all types of weapons. And none of which has changed my opinion in the slightest. They're overpowered, period. They are unbalanced, period. If you disagree with that, you're some combination of stupid, oblivious, and dishonest.

 

For f*ck's sake, they're not even balanced when you're directly fighting them - with ANY other vehicle, with ANY other weapon. Let alone when you're not fighting back and instead just running for your life with a bunch of CEO cargo or trying to do VIP work or free roam events, or whatever else in this game requires actual attention, and not standing in place firing rocket after rocket helplessly at a guy dive-bombing you from straight above.

 

 

"because they failed at balancing it. As anyone with a functioning brain stem who has actually played the game already knows."

 

Stopped reading right there. Your posts are usually well thought out, devoid of insults. Reading the various comments, and I have read them all, it is apparent that reasonable minds can disagree. Lose this kind of language from your posts if you want a better exchange in the future.

 

 

I'll be extremely blunt here - though as a preface, let me say this is not personal against you, because I have agreed with you on a lot of things before and generally like you on this forum. You seem like fine people.

 

So with that out of the way: I'm not interested in reasonable disagreement on this subject anymore, nor in leaving out the insults or having "better exchanges." There are a few reasons for that. One is that the reasonable and polite approach has gotten me nowhere. Rockstar has not changed anything and after arguing about this for 2 years, I have yet to win one pro-jet person over to the side of goodness and light. It's been a monumental waste of my time, so I'm done with all that. The only reasons I'm talking about it at all are: 1) to vent, because it makes me angry; and 2) to hopefully get some other people worked up further. The community around this game has gotten more and more toxic and hostile over time. At this point, I am actively interested in making that worse - in the hopes that it will finally draw some attention from the only voice in this debate that really matters: Rockstar Games. If they don't sit up and pay attention to the bickering and name-calling, this is truly a lost cause, and I might as well retire permanently from GTA Online. Because this is just going to keep on pissing me off, and I'm tired of working around an obvious, stupid, easily fixable problem.

 

Another reason is that the pro-jet side consists mainly of trolls and morons (not entirely, but mainly) who only ever get into these conversations to score cheap points by mocking people and saying "GIT GUD" over and over. Well, f*ck 'em. I've reached a point where I don't mind burning bridges to win arguments. I've lost a lot of my enthusiasm for GTA anyway, thanks to this issue primarily; if I ended up getting a vacation from this forum for being over-aggressive, that's not going to really keep me up nights.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Nutduster

[fear_the_nut70]

 

Dog fighting disappears? Good, then maybe the "expert" pilots will retreat to a game that was designed with aerial combat in mind.

 

Flying in this game has all the nuance of Top Gun for the NES, it's simply not difficult. Master a few muscle memory moves and altitudes at which to climb and suddenly you too can be Hans Rudel.

 

Tell ya what, how about we weaken jets to where a few strafes with a regular minigun blows 'em out of the sky (or 2 heavy sniper to smoking, 3 heavy sniper to explode), and then we can just set the Hydra and Lazer to miniguns instead of explosive rounds and everyone wins?

Not that anyone will notice "dogfighters" are gone, the two of them

 

 

They aren't going anywhere and the jets won't be nerfed.

 

Too many people use them, and Rock Star isn't going to eliminate something that would have the effect of reducing player interest. So, you have two options: 1) get better at the game by learning how to deal with them; or 2) keep squealing like a little piglet. Irwin M Fletcher, you choose....

[hyperar]

They aren't going anywhere and the jets won't be nerfed.

 

Too many people use them, and Rock Star isn't going to eliminate something that would have the effect of reducing player interest. So, you have two options: 1) get better at the game by learning how to deal with them; or 2) keep squealing like a little piglet. Irwin M Fletcher, you choose....

Haha, you make me laugh, is so easy to win an argument against people like you, just let them talk, they'll do all the work themselves.

[bloatedsack]

I'll go with option #3, vote-kicking randoms out of my sessions all day and all night long.

[Azarael]

 

Another reason is that the pro-jet side consists mainly of trolls and morons (not entirely, but mainly) who only ever get into these conversations to score cheap points by mocking people and saying "GIT GUD" over and over. Well, f*ck 'em. I've reached a point where I don't mind burning bridges to win arguments. I've lost a lot of my enthusiasm for GTA anyway, thanks to this issue primarily; if I ended up getting a vacation from this forum for being over-aggressive, that's not going to really keep me up nights.

 

 

 

 

 

This is the key point here.

 

These discussions are going nowhere BECAUSE jet defenders (and to a limited extent anti-jet players) are able to come into the discussion to do the following:

 

- Throw "you're whining / you're crying" and other non-arguments and insults out

- Misrepresent and quote out of context repeatedly

- Lie outright about the content of their posts (SkynetOnlineID)

- Ignore posts at will (and I don't mean the forum ignore) when they're inconvenient to produce a circular looping discussion as fear_the_nut did with the dogfighting issue

- Doggedly repeat all of the above until the threads either get locked or posts deleted for flame wars, or until you ignore them to avoid the war, in which case they keep doing it but you just can't see it

 

As long as that's the case, this is going nowhere. I think it's about time we asked the staff about where, exactly, on the forum we can go to have a discussion/debate according to the rules of the Discussion and Debate forum when it comes to GTA:Online topics. This isn't going to stop unless we can have a venue where poor quality posts and abusive tactics are deleted.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Azarael

[hyperar]

I'll go with option #3, vote-kicking randoms out of my sessions all day and all night long.

The good thing about this update is that we may actually make C* see the problem and they may actually do something, we'll see i guess.

 

This update can actually be enjoyable if the right changes are made, under the current circumstances, people will recurr to use ways to make the lobby suitable themselves, like lagging out and vote kick players that enter public lobbies

Edited June 10, 2016 by hyperar

[Hunter]

Didn't take long for this thread to descend into name-calling lol.

[fear_the_nut70]

 

That isn't even what I said. I have been in all kinds of dog fights because i like doing them. I know of lots of people (not a coincidence) who feel the same way. I tend to cut people a break when I think English is not their first language, because I know how hard it is to learn another language, but if you are going to be obnoxious when it is obvious you didn't grasp the point, I think the gloves might come off here. Reread a few times and see if you can better grasp my point. Then we will talk again.

Childish denial, insults and attempts to discredit me. I get that it may me easier than actually post an argument, but still.

 

 

This thread is littered with my arguments. I don't include them in troll posts that don't bother addressing my point.

 

 

 

 

 

As you know this is NOT my argument. The thin shell on that thing such that a bug fart will cause it to explode IS the balance. That's what requires a high level of skill when killing people in a landscape cluttered with buildings. Same think with the sniper rifle which does incredible damage to a Hydra. Rock Star actually put a lot of thought into balancing this weapon, but for those that hate jets, it will never be enough.

 

 

...because they failed at balancing it. As anyone with a functioning brain stem who has actually played the game already knows. So tired of these disingenuous bullsh*t arguments from people who probably spend 80% of their time in jets. Give me a f*cking break. I've played the game for 2 1/2 years, logging god knows how many hours; I've gotten thousands of kills with jets, and I've destroyed probably hundreds of them myself, using all types of weapons. And none of which has changed my opinion in the slightest. They're overpowered, period. They are unbalanced, period. If you disagree with that, you're some combination of stupid, oblivious, and dishonest.

 

For f*ck's sake, they're not even balanced when you're directly fighting them - with ANY other vehicle, with ANY other weapon. Let alone when you're not fighting back and instead just running for your life with a bunch of CEO cargo or trying to do VIP work or free roam events, or whatever else in this game requires actual attention, and not standing in place firing rocket after rocket helplessly at a guy dive-bombing you from straight above.

 

 

"because they failed at balancing it. As anyone with a functioning brain stem who has actually played the game already knows."

 

Stopped reading right there. Your posts are usually well thought out, devoid of insults. Reading the various comments, and I have read them all, it is apparent that reasonable minds can disagree. Lose this kind of language from your posts if you want a better exchange in the future.

 

 

I'll be extremely blunt here - though as a preface, let me say this is not personal against you, because I have agreed with you on a lot of things before and generally like you on this forum. You seem like fine people.

 

So with that out of the way: I'm not interested in reasonable disagreement on this subject anymore, nor in leaving out the insults or having "better exchanges." There are a few reasons for that. One is that the reasonable and polite approach has gotten me nowhere. Rockstar has not changed anything and after arguing about this for 2 years, I have yet to win one pro-jet person over to the side of goodness and light. It's been a monumental waste of my time, so I'm done with all that. The only reasons I'm talking about it at all are: 1) to vent, because it makes me angry; and 2) to hopefully get some other people worked up further. The community around this game has gotten more and more toxic and hostile over time. At this point, I am actively interested in making that worse - in the hopes that it will finally draw some attention from the only voice in this debate that really matters: Rockstar Games. If they don't sit up and pay attention to the bickering and name-calling, this is truly a lost cause, and I might as well retire permanently from GTA Online. Because this is just going to keep on pissing me off, and I'm tired of working around an obvious, stupid, easily fixable problem.

 

Another reason is that the pro-jet side consists mainly of trolls and morons (not entirely, but mainly) who only ever get into these conversations to score cheap points by mocking people and saying "GIT GUD" over and over. Well, f*ck 'em. I've reached a point where I don't mind burning bridges to win arguments. I've lost a lot of my enthusiasm for GTA anyway, thanks to this issue primarily; if I ended up getting a vacation from this forum for being over-aggressive, that's not going to really keep me up nights.

 

 

And you seem like a reasonable fellow. Do you really think that Rock Star makes significant changes by reading through hundreds of pages of bulletin board material from hard core games (gamers that probably do not represent the majority of the players)? Would it not be better for you and your brethren to take advantage of the 1-800 number and barrage them with calls so that you at least know that your message is being heard? I guess this is my problem and has been from the very beginning-this idea that if we just complain on here enough, that will effect the change that you want. You seem like a man of conviction, so I guess it surprises me that you think banding with the whiners will accomplish anything. Reminds me of people who think they are effecting major public policy because they signed an e-petition.

 

They aren't going anywhere and the jets won't be nerfed.

 

Too many people use them, and Rock Star isn't going to eliminate something that would have the effect of reducing player interest. So, you have two options: 1) get better at the game by learning how to deal with them; or 2) keep squealing like a little piglet. Irwin M Fletcher, you choose....

Haha, you make me laugh, is so easy to win an argument against people like you, just let them talk, they'll do all the work themselves.

 

 

So you have declared yourself the winner, have you? Seems legit...

 

(BTW, you reveal who you are by use the c and star. No one takes those people seriously. No one.)

Edited June 10, 2016 by fear_the_nut70

[hyperar]

Didn't take long for this thread to descend into name-calling lol.

Did you really expect anything else?

 

 

This thread is littered with my arguments. I don't include them in troll posts that don't bother addressing my point.

Hmmm, i've been reading this thread since the beginning, yet i still have to read an argument from you.

 

Disclaimer: Insults, discredits, denying and making up stuff trying to pass them as "facts" are not considered arguments.

 

 

So you have declared yourself the winner, have you? Seems legit...

 

(BTW, you reveal who you are by use the c and star. No one takes those people seriously. No one.)

Noooo, anyone that has been following the thread can clearly see that you are the winner man, right guys?, hahaha.

Edited June 10, 2016 by hyperar

[Nutduster]

 

 

 

 

I'll be extremely blunt here - though as a preface, let me say this is not personal against you, because I have agreed with you on a lot of things before and generally like you on this forum. You seem like fine people.

 

So with that out of the way: I'm not interested in reasonable disagreement on this subject anymore, nor in leaving out the insults or having "better exchanges." There are a few reasons for that. One is that the reasonable and polite approach has gotten me nowhere. Rockstar has not changed anything and after arguing about this for 2 years, I have yet to win one pro-jet person over to the side of goodness and light. It's been a monumental waste of my time, so I'm done with all that. The only reasons I'm talking about it at all are: 1) to vent, because it makes me angry; and 2) to hopefully get some other people worked up further. The community around this game has gotten more and more toxic and hostile over time. At this point, I am actively interested in making that worse - in the hopes that it will finally draw some attention from the only voice in this debate that really matters: Rockstar Games. If they don't sit up and pay attention to the bickering and name-calling, this is truly a lost cause, and I might as well retire permanently from GTA Online. Because this is just going to keep on pissing me off, and I'm tired of working around an obvious, stupid, easily fixable problem.

 

Another reason is that the pro-jet side consists mainly of trolls and morons (not entirely, but mainly) who only ever get into these conversations to score cheap points by mocking people and saying "GIT GUD" over and over. Well, f*ck 'em. I've reached a point where I don't mind burning bridges to win arguments. I've lost a lot of my enthusiasm for GTA anyway, thanks to this issue primarily; if I ended up getting a vacation from this forum for being over-aggressive, that's not going to really keep me up nights.

 

 

And you seem like a reasonable fellow. Do you really think that Rock Star makes significant changes by reading through hundreds of pages of bulletin board material from hard core games (gamers that probably do not represent the majority of the players)? Would it not be better for you and your brethren to take advantage of the 1-800 number and barrage them with calls so that you at least know that your message is being heard? I guess this is my problem and has been from the very beginning-this idea that if we just complain on here enough, that will effect the change that you want. You seem like a man of conviction, so I guess it surprises me that you think banding with the whiners will accomplish anything. Reminds me of people who think they are effecting major public policy because they signed an e-petition.

 

 

You're assuming an awful lot there. I've emailed Rockstar and posted on their support forum about the jet problem literally at least a dozen times. I put my money where my mouth is. If I had the phone number of one of their key programmers I'd call him right now.

 

But I do think they keep half an eye on forums like this one - certain boards anyway; this one is popular enough that it doesn't seem too unlikely - and I absolutely do not mind if jet arguments take over the place and burn it to the f*cking ground in the process. I also think if more people get angry about this, maybe THEY will take to Rockstar's forums and flood their inbox. That'd be fine with me. The more people get mad (on either side) and the madder they get, the more chance that any of this penetrates the blinders of the only people who matter.

 

I'll put my money where my mouth is in another way, too. Anyone that thinks the jet is balanced at all is welcome to join me in a lobby this weekend. I'll get my Hydra (as many times as necessary, daisy-chaining them in that special way all jet griefers do); you try to do free roam events, VIP work, and CEO jobs, using any vehicle you want as long as it's not a Hydra, and using any weapons you want, too. Let's just see how many times I kill you vs. how many you kill me. Let's just see how often you actually manage to complete an objective and earn money. Let's find out if you ever have one ounce of fun that I can't snuff out like the angry, sexually frustrated teenager I'm emulating squashes an ant on the sidewalk.

 

Of course, I've made that offer before and been taken up on it approximately zero times total. No one cares. Jet whores will keep on whorin'. Their approach to this debate is completely dishonest - the entire reason they're obsessed with that vehicle is because they know damn well how overpowered it is.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Nutduster

[Azarael]

I also have to point out that his belief that Rockstar do not read this forum or value any community opinion, however reasoned, does not entitle him to come in and ruin any topic which seeks to discuss a controversial area of the game.

 

If he truly believes that R* have no interest in this forum or in community discussions and opinion, and that is the entire basis of his participation in this topic, then he should stay out himself - as by his own logic, this topic will accomplish nothing.

 

I find it more likely though that this is a covert tactic: by ruining any kind of discussion thread that they do not like, these people increase the probability that R* will not bother to read here by lowering the quality of the topics. I'll tell you right now - I AM a dev and I wouldn't read this subforum until there was a highly moderated section designed specifically to cut out the noise and give me pure signal and debate. When looking for ideas and suggestions, I want to know the pros and cons and I want to know them as quickly as possible. I am not interested in sifting through flame wars, insults and circular argument for 20 pages.

 

In this sense, the abusive tactics used by him and other jet defenders work. Unfortunately, this isn't a problem that we can solve directly. It requires appealing to the forum staff.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Azarael

[mute!]

R* currently playing on XB1 getting destroyed https://www.twitch.tv/rockstargames

[Gridl0k]

R* currently playing on XB1 getting destroyed https://www.twitch.tv/rockstargames

 

"You need good vehicles, like a Valkyrie.."

 

 

 

It would be good, wouldn't it? Shame it has f*ck ALL CHANCE. Cretins.

 

ETA - the lobby just split

Edited June 10, 2016 by Gridl0k

[mute!]

LOL, kept getting killed by Jets and everyone lagged out of the lobby.