what is cheating?

[CarimboHanky]

godmode

wallbreaching

invisible outfits

 

those 3 are cheating in my book, the rest are just part of the game and modded accounts dont give you the upperhand anyone on newgen,so yeah

[tsouryavong13]

Cheating is what the Patriots did with the deflation of footballs and spygate and many other things.

[Pedinhuh]

Voted for everything except the RPG, everyone can get one easily and it takes no brains to use it.

[BatFerYou]

Jet griefing is cheating? lol

No. Like repetitive use of any of the weapons in the game, be it Kuruma/Insurgent griefing, rocket-spamming, side to side sniping, it's just f*cking annoying.

 

By trying to patch or solve some parts of the game, R*'s persistent meddling has merely created a confusing vaccuum of conflicting options.

 

Charging players for their ammo but making the most powerful item (jet) freely accessible to all is the kind of logic only reserved for people that would struggle to distinguish a cat from a yoghurt.

[iddqdvie]

 

 

 

using game glitches is not cheating, actually only getting third party software is considered cheating. using all game mechanics like combat roll and sh*t is not cheating but just lame.

 

consider this: even in a f*cking REAL WORLD WAR, there is the "Genfer Convention" that are basically RULES for whats NOT ALLOWED in a war. (like bullet speed limits... oh yes!) never heared of it? it should change your perspective on this world and its wars in general.

 

and with some feature its just the same. it might be a game and sh*t but dude, if u play a real life paintball game with me and you do some annoying sh*t that should not be done, i'd just avoid you, never play with or against u ever again because you are behaving like an asshole.

You mean the Geneva convention by any chance? Genfer sounds like a pharmaceutical company

 

Or a redneck calling his daughter after Jennifer Lopez.

 

Ba Dum Tish

 

lol

 

yeah, Geneva is called Genf in german. Genfer would be like Genevian.

[l Marksman God l]

 

 

Jet griefing is cheating? lol

i didn't say, think, or vote for this.

just because i provide some answers for the poll doesn't mean that all of these would be my opinion.

i even mentioned in one of my posts in here that i don't consider jet griefing or over using certain weapons as cheating.

i just tried to list some issues which about people liked to hate/bitch in several threads of this forum to provide a variety of answers which could be in context to cheating in someones opinion/interpretation.

People bitch about everything in this game. Players who think using RPGs and jets is cheating, are normally the players who get destroyed by them

[P4DR0N3]

This question is interesting for several reasons but mostly because its a reflection of the mindset of some of the members here.

 

First, lets be clear that there is no formal relationship between Rockstar and these forums. The domain is owned by a private company out of Kirkland, Wa.

 

So this forum is as effective as meeting at a public market and asking these questions. Rockstar has no onus to acknowledge or action anything found here.

 

Second, looking at the traffic here, the forums represent less than 10% of the total GTA userbase. Lets be honest. This does not speak to a large amount of sway.

 

Moving on to the question asked... we need to be agreed on what IS and IS NOT cheating. Our opinions mean next to nothing to Rockstar (or most anyone). The accepted definition that the business world uses is what is pertinent.

 

In game development, the developer defines the rules by which you play their. In software programming the method we find used in GTAO is called Least Restrictive Method.

 

What this means is, unless expressly restricted, all players have the same opportunity. Opportunity does not mean entitlement. Its up to you to succeed or fail on the merits of your choices.

 

Things like administrative access or God mode are clearly violations of the TOS, so lets not beat that dead horse.

 

Instead when asking if an action is cheating ask, is this something anyone could do or is this restricted in some manner? If anyone can do it, like suicide before another player is credited with your death, then it cannot be defined as cheating no matter how unpalatable it might be for you individually.

 

Different cultures have different values and ways of seeing/doing things. They might even conflict from locale to locale. But those concerns are not the purview of the game developer. Their job is to provide their product and correcting issues that their design might have unknowingly caused in a reasonable period of time as per the TOS.

 

The problem here seems to be that some users have found a way to use the defined systems in a manner that annoys others.

 

When that happens you are responsible for removing yourself from the equation. Stop letting griefers set the rules. If a child comes in on the mic you can either be annoyed, mute them, or change sessions.

 

Stop being manipulated and use the same tools being used to annoy you to make them move on because no one else is going to.

 

The dev cannot be expected to account for all bad behavior. They gave the user tools to help themselves.

 

 

Lastly lets talk about the "UN"visible. First, learn to spell, it's invisible. Secondly, this is NOT a cheat. The person is missing the file that represents the clothes item from their console/pc. It gives them no bonus and in no way prevents injury. Nothing more or less.

 

 

Try paying less attention to what others have that you dont. Just because you dont understand it doesn't make it cheating. If you want to gain the skill, practice. If you want to know how to do something ask, for help. Eventually you can get whatever you want with a little effort.

 

Math isnt magic. It works the same for me as it does you. Same with this game. Some folks have found a way to make you show your work... IF you let them. So dont; It's your game, play it.

 

 

All in all, this was a fun little exercise in critical thinking. Hope this is helpful.

[Shaytan]

What is cheating?

Baby don't cheat me

No more...

[concolt]

Killing yourself isn't cheating but it's a cheap tactic and makes you weak. When I play against someone and they constantly blow themselves up before I kill them I know instantly that I'm a better player and I count each self death as a kill for myself because I forced them to kill them selves.

[size_m]

This question is interesting for several reasons but mostly because its a reflection of the mindset of some of the members here.

 

First, lets be clear that there is no formal relationship between Rockstar and these forums. The domain is owned by a private company out of Kirkland, Wa.

 

So this forum is as effective as meeting at a public market and asking these questions. Rockstar has no onus to acknowledge or action anything found here.

 

Second, looking at the traffic here, the forums represent less than 10% of the total GTA userbase. Lets be honest. This does not speak to a large amount of sway.

 

Moving on to the question asked... we need to be agreed on what IS and IS NOT cheating. Our opinions mean next to nothing to Rockstar (or most anyone). The accepted definition that the business world uses is what is pertinent.

 

In game development, the developer defines the rules by which you play their. In software programming the method we find used in GTAO is called Least Restrictive Method.

 

What this means is, unless expressly restricted, all players have the same opportunity. Opportunity does not mean entitlement. Its up to you to succeed or fail on the merits of your choices.

 

Things like administrative access or God mode are clearly violations of the TOS, so lets not beat that dead horse.

 

Instead when asking if an action is cheating ask, is this something anyone could do or is this restricted in some manner? If anyone can do it, like suicide before another player is credited with your death, then it cannot be defined as cheating no matter how unpalatable it might be for you individually.

 

Different cultures have different values and ways of seeing/doing things. They might even conflict from locale to locale. But those concerns are not the purview of the game developer. Their job is to provide their product and correcting issues that their design might have unknowingly caused in a reasonable period of time as per the TOS.

 

The problem here seems to be that some users have found a way to use the defined systems in a manner that annoys others.

 

When that happens you are responsible for removing yourself from the equation. Stop letting griefers set the rules. If a child comes in on the mic you can either be annoyed, mute them, or change sessions.

 

Stop being manipulated and use the same tools being used to annoy you to make them move on because no one else is going to.

 

The dev cannot be expected to account for all bad behavior. They gave the user tools to help themselves.

 

 

Lastly lets talk about the "UN"visible. First, learn to spell, it's invisible. Secondly, this is NOT a cheat. The person is missing the file that represents the clothes item from their console/pc. It gives them no bonus and in no way prevents injury. Nothing more or less.

 

 

Try paying less attention to what others have that you dont. Just because you dont understand it doesn't make it cheating. If you want to gain the skill, practice. If you want to know how to do something ask, for help. Eventually you can get whatever you want with a little effort.

 

Math isnt magic. It works the same for me as it does you. Same with this game. Some folks have found a way to make you show your work... IF you let them. So dont; It's your game, play it.

 

 

All in all, this was a fun little exercise in critical thinking. Hope this is helpful.

first of all, how do you wanna know which things from the list i consider to be cheating?

 

as i already mentioned i just gathered some issues what people hated/bitched about on these forums to provide a couple of answers for your choice.

this doesn't mean that i automatically think about all of them as cheating intruments.

 

also i don't have any problems with anybody using some of these tactics either.

this is not a personal issue of me.

this is just supposed to be an interesting discussion about the meaning of cheating and what everybody thinks about that, especially in the case of the suicide tactic (and passive mode).

 

and what makes you think this was supposed to be a question to rockstar?

as you could know i am a member of this forum for already a couple of years.

do you really think that i wouldn't have learned about this forum not being the official site of rockstar during that time being a member here?

actually i think it's pretty dumb to assume this forum being rockstar in the first place!

(your clarification about the non existence of a formal relationship of this forum to rockstar indicates that you probably thought of that being the case.)

so this forum actually is the most effective place for my intention of a nice discussion.

(by the way it is commonly known that some rockstar employees are watching this forum frequently.)

 

if we really "need to be agreed on what is and is not cheating" then you should agree that my opinion on this is correct and your's isn't. (just being sarcastic on this one.)

 

you are obviously one of those who only see the technical way of cheating as being the only way.

let me tell you that there is also a moral and ethical way of cheating.

 

it is just not true that if all players have the same opportunity it cannot be cheating.

most of the possibilities to cheat are available for everyone.

but not everybody wants to use them as not everybody is or wants to be a cheater.

 

let me make this clear for you with the example of the suicide tactic during a pvp combat.

it is common sense that dying (more often than your opponent) during a combat means losing the fight in generell.

this is a fact in most of the games (if not all) and also in real life, therefore common sense.

just because it is possible (to anybody) to misuse this "tactic" in this game to manipulate the ingame scoring mechanics of a 1v1 dm doesn't make it a "legit" tactic as it is against the intended use and supposed gameplay of fighting.

everybody knows that the one who dies more often in a combat is the loser, this is fact.

just the shown score by this game indicates a win because of this misuse of the easy way out option.

this is basically an unwritten code of conduct based on common sense.

(you can also see this in the wiki definiton about "cheating".)

 

jet griefing or over using certain overpowered weapons are indeed annoying but no cheating in my opinion.

but misuse of suicide (or passive mode) is totally against its original intention and therefore against most of the players exspectaions.

 

sorry for my typo of "unvisible" instead of "invisible" outfit.

in fact it actually is a clear cheat as many cheaters intentionally use a glitch to get this invisible outfit.

and it gives them a bonus or advantage over others because they cannot be seen so easily in a combat situation because of this thus making it harder for the opponent to see and target them!

 

please don't try to be my teacher in "critical thinking".

but thanks for your opinion and input for this thread/discussion.

[hispls]

Let me simplify this:

 

It's something I do === just game mechanics, A-OK

It's something I don't do and other people wreck me with === cheater ZOMG.

 

If any of you crybabies and video game bullies wanted a fair fight you'd buy and play a real PvP game with better mechanics designed to be balanced. You're treating GTA free roam like call of duty because you will have an advantage over some or many of the other players for whatever reason and then you get your feelings hurt when you get beat from someone who has found an advantage over you.

[fw3]

cheating (CHēt/-eng) verb:

1. act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.

• deceive or trick."he had cheated her out of everything she had"

– synonyms: swindle, defraud, deceive, trick, scam, dupe, hoodwink, double-cross, gull; Moreinformalrip off, con, fleece, shaft, hose, sting, bilk, diddle, rook, gyp, finagle, bamboozle, flimflam, put one over on, pull a fast one on, sucker, stiff, hornswoggle; 


"customers were cheated",
 "she always cheats at cards"


2. informal: 
be sexually unfaithful.

– synonyms: commit adultery, be unfaithful, stray; Moreinformaltwo-time, play around; 
archaicnice personold 


"it's not the first time her husband has cheated,"
 "his wife was cheating on him"

3. avoid (something undesirable) by luck or skill.
"she cheated death in a spectacular crash"

4. to modify, counterfeit, or manipulate game coding in GTAV to gain specific and supernatural advantage over players who don't know how to do it.
"that dude killed me 24 times in a row – he's totally a cheating hacker!" "he got in a car and then transported halfway across the map! Cheater!" "he's a passive cheater in a jet!"

Edited May 3, 2016 by fw3

[Locce]

I only see things as cheating that violate the rules set by the developers. Commiting suicide and abusing passive mode are, as I see it, within these rules. However, something can be a cheap tactic without being an outright cheat. When two players agree to a 1 vs. 1 with pistols the only thing enforcing this self-made rule is the participants' honour since the developers' rules say you can use any weapon. So, in the context of GTA Online it would not be considered a cheat if one player suddenly brought out his assault rifle. It just is a cheap tactic. Of course the other player can then do the same and even the playing field. But if he does not the player who used the assault rifle hardly has a foot to stand on when he claims he is the better player.

It is just the same with suicides and passive mode. The main problem with everybody doing it to even the playing field in this case is that the game mechanic is so broken that it would suck the fun right out of the game. So, it is R*'s fault with how passive mode can be used during a combat encounter and how suicides protect your meaningless but for some people important K/D. They set rules that, when used to their limits, make the game exceptionally unfun. Because of that many players use an honour-system that says you should not use suicides and passive mode that way. Fighting against such a player while not adhering to the same limitations certainly gives you a cheap advantage, but it is not cheating. Of course it is nothing to be proud of either. Somebody who uses these cheap tactics against those who do not and sees his success as grounds for claims of his superiority clearly is an idiot or a dillbag, probably both.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Locce

[CyborgZombieJesus]

Frankly, anyone that thinks that options 3 through to 9 are cheating is a moron. Standard game mechanics are not cheating. I use all of these except for 1,2,10 and 11, when needed. If you die because of a legitimate game mechanic all that means is the player who killed you is better at the game than you are.

 

Now if someone is invincible, invisible, wall breaching or modding etc. that isn't part of the intended game and gives you an unfair advantage against someone who playing the game the way Rockstar intended it to be played. That is cheating.

 

 

[size_m]

I only see things as cheating that violate the rules set by the developers. Commiting suicide and abusing passive mode are, as I see it, within these rules. However, something can be a cheap tactic without being an outright cheat. When two players agree to a 1 vs. 1 with pistols the only thing enforcing this self-made rule is the participants' honour since the developers' rules say you can use any weapon. So, in the context of GTA Online it would not be considered a cheat if one player suddenly brought out his assault rifle. It just is a cheap tactic. Of course the other player can then do the same and even the playing field. But if he does not the player who used the assault rifle hardly has a foot to stand on when he claims he is the better player.

It is just the same with suicides and passive mode. The main problem with everybody doing it to even the playing field in this case is that the game mechanic is so broken that it would suck the fun right out of the game. So, it is R*'s fault with how passive mode can be used during a combat encounter and how suicides protect your meaningless but for some people important K/D. They set rules that, when used to their limits, make the game exceptionally unfun. Because of that many players use an honour-system that says you should not use suicides and passive mode that way. Fighting against such a player while not adhering to the same limitations certainly gives you a cheap advantage, but it is not cheating. Of course it is nothing to be proud of either. Somebody who uses these cheap tactics against those who do not and sees his success as grounds for claims of his superiority clearly is an idiot or a dillbag, probably both.

just because certain things are possible by the game mechanics doesn't mean that applying (or misusing) them would be within the "rules" set by the developers.

the rules also depend on the intention of the developers for certain things and not just the unwanted possibilities which may result from the existent mechanics.

 

 

Frankly, anyone that thinks that options 3 through to 9 are cheating is a moron. Standard game mechanics are not cheating. I use all of these except for 1,2,10 and 11, when needed. If you die because of a legitimate game mechanic all that means is the player who killed you is better at the game than you are.

 

Now if someone is invincible, invisible, wall breaching or modding etc. that isn't part of the intended game and gives you an unfair advantage against someone who playing the game the way Rockstar intended it to be played. That is cheating.

 

 

so anybody with a different opinion or interpretation than yours is a moron?

the misuse of options 3 and 4 are not "part of the intended game and give you an unfair advantage against someone who is playing the game the way rockstar intended it to be played"!

Edited May 3, 2016 by size_m

[BatFerYou]

What is cheating?

Baby don't cheat me

No more...

 

Yeah someone did that joke.

 

Read the thread Mr Corbett.

 

Edit: actually, f*ck it, nobody else has. The definitions are getting really, really, repetitive folks.

Edited May 3, 2016 by BatFerYou

[Locce]

 

I only see things as cheating that violate the rules set by the developers. Commiting suicide and abusing passive mode are, as I see it, within these rules. However, something can be a cheap tactic without being an outright cheat. When two players agree to a 1 vs. 1 with pistols the only thing enforcing this self-made rule is the participants' honour since the developers' rules say you can use any weapon. So, in the context of GTA Online it would not be considered a cheat if one player suddenly brought out his assault rifle. It just is a cheap tactic. Of course the other player can then do the same and even the playing field. But if he does not the player who used the assault rifle hardly has a foot to stand on when he claims he is the better player.

It is just the same with suicides and passive mode. The main problem with everybody doing it to even the playing field in this case is that the game mechanic is so broken that it would suck the fun right out of the game. So, it is R*'s fault with how passive mode can be used during a combat encounter and how suicides protect your meaningless but for some people important K/D. They set rules that, when used to their limits, make the game exceptionally unfun. Because of that many players use an honour-system that says you should not use suicides and passive mode that way. Fighting against such a player while not adhering to the same limitations certainly gives you a cheap advantage, but it is not cheating. Of course it is nothing to be proud of either. Somebody who uses these cheap tactics against those who do not and sees his success as grounds for claims of his superiority clearly is an idiot or a dillbag, probably both.

just because certain things are possible by the game mechanics doesn't mean that applying (or misusing) them would be within the "rules" set by the developers.

the rules also depend on the intention of the developers for certain things and not just the unwanted possibilities which may result from the existent mechanics.

Yes, that is how I see it as well. Sometimes developers erroneously make things possible that really should not and abusing them would be considered cheating even when the player's actions are within the limitations set by game mechanics. Example: if a game allows me to attack NPC enemies without them being able to attack me back when I stand on a large crate or a rock there is a situation that is clearly not intended by the developer. Abusing this possibility would make me a cheater.

However, sometimes the developers' intentions are not that clear. In any case the situation should be remedied in a timely manner. Example: the developer updates the game and now I am either unable to damage NPC enemies while standing on a crate or a rock, I am unable to get onto crates and rocks that create the problem or NPC enemies are now able to attack me while I stand on crates and rocks. If the developer comes out beforehand and says: "Hey, there is this problem, and we wanted to let you know that we consider it cheating, so do not do that or you might get banned." all the better.

Now, let's take a look at suicides and passive mode in GTA Online. The lack of communication from R* and the amount of time that this situation is how it is make me doubt that there is any intent on R*'s side regarding the matter. As a result I see no developer ruling against suicides and passive mode, meaning these tactics are cheap but allowed by R*. That is why I said that I do not see these tactics violate the rules set by the developer. They are detrimental to the enjoyment of the game, without a doubt, but so far R* does not seem to care either way.

[P4DR0N3]

I see a lot of statements that sum up to, well thats not what R* intended. Ok. Maybe. But prove your statement or it is just your opinion. In the meantime we can only infer that R* DID intend for it to be the way it is or they would have changed it.

 

To Size M. Go get a dictionary and re-read my previous statement. Double check with someone that you understood it. Then before you hit post to reply make sure your response uses complete sentences, full thoughts, and accurate information.

 

I would refer you back to the part where I told you that your opinion on how it should work, doesnt matter to R*. You dont like it? Too bad. Hundreds of millions do, enough to not only pay for it but they tolerate the problems that chap your ass so badly.

 

Secondly, you think an awful lot of yourself that you assume anyone cares enough to check how long youve been posting here. Additionally, I dont care if you could show you posted the first comment ever. If all your posts are like this I'll save myself the headache.

 

Back to the rebuttal... As mentioned previously, this forum is about as official as a Mall Santa.

 

Owning a copy of the game and programming one are 2 different things. There are many statements here in these forums about things people clearly do not understand. Which is fine, people can figure out fact from fiction if they want. Not everyone is geek. Just dont get butthurt if someone answers your questions now and again with incontrovertible answers. Like it or not, things are how they are.

[BatFerYou]

Does anyone want to join me in the car park going round in circles on a unicycle?

[Elektra]

Does anyone want to join me in the car park going round in circles on a unicycle?

are you on ps4? What kind of unicycle is it chrome?

[size_m]

I see a lot of statements that sum up to, well thats not what R* intended. Ok. Maybe. But prove your statement or it is just your opinion. In the meantime we can only infer that R* DID intend for it to be the way it is or they would have changed it.

 

To Size M. Go get a dictionary and re-read my previous statement. Double check with someone that you understood it. Then before you hit post to reply make sure your response uses complete sentences, full thoughts, and accurate information.

 

I would refer you back to the part where I told you that your opinion on how it should work, doesnt matter to R*. You dont like it? Too bad. Hundreds of millions do, enough to not only pay for it but they tolerate the problems that chap your ass so badly.

 

Secondly, you think an awful lot of yourself that you assume anyone cares enough to check how long youve been posting here. Additionally, I dont care if you could show you posted the first comment ever. If all your posts are like this I'll save myself the headache.

 

Back to the rebuttal... As mentioned previously, this forum is about as official as a Mall Santa.

 

Owning a copy of the game and programming one are 2 different things. There are many statements here in these forums about things people clearly do not understand. Which is fine, people can figure out fact from fiction if they want. Not everyone is geek. Just dont get butthurt if someone answers your questions now and again with incontrovertible answers. Like it or not, things are how they are.

where exactly didn't i use "complete sentences, full thoughts, and accurate information"?

 

i know that my opinion doesn't matter to rockstar!

where did i say something like that?

why do you assume that this thread or my opinion was supposed to address rockstar at all?

this is a plain discussion about opinions and interpretations on what is cheating.

 

i don't have a problem at all with other players, opinions, or even with cheaters!

i know that many players in this game play in dirty ways and use cheap tricks or even cheat.

i just adapt to these circumstances and play together or against other players with different playing styles than mine.

so there is nothing here that would "chap my ass so badly".

 

i don't dictate anyone how to play this game and i have nothing in particular against cheaters.

i just wanna discuss this matter and try to explain why i consider certain things or tactics as cheating.

so what is your problem about this?

 

if anybody doesn't care about my opinion then he or she doesn't have to read or to contribute to this thread.

 

i thanked you for the input and your opinion in your first post.

so please don't get to the point of getting rude or insulting eachother about nothing.

Edited May 3, 2016 by size_m

[Nah nah nah Gta 6]

I only consider invisible outfits cheating if the entire body is invisible, even if you have invisible arms or even torso, you're not exactly cheating, some people just do it because it looks cool.

[Arrows to Athens]

I only consider invisible outfits cheating if the entire body is invisible, even if you have invisible arms or even torso, you're not exactly cheating, some people just do it because it looks cool.

And some do it for a slight advantage; it reduces the player's visibility so it will be difficult for their opponent to pinpoint where they exactly are. If about 90% of their body is invisible, it would be considered cheating, since it would be more difficult to see them, but easy for them to see you, especially in the dark when they're sporting a black BP helmet. If you both are sniping, for example, the invisible player will have the advantage, as you have more visibility, unlike the invisible player. Also, it's a glitch at the end of the day.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Fearx--

[Feurian42]

It's not cheating as long as you can convince her you broke up, then hit it with the other chick then broke up with her...And now you and original girl are back together. Easy.

[Jerking For Soup]

[A Maned Wolf]

90% of the poll is just cheese-tastic tactics, only the modded accounts and invisible outfits.

[CaptainMarvel]

Full penetration, not just the tip.

[Semaj 2JZ♢]

Easy, manipulating or forcing the game to do something for you or give something to you, that you wouldn't get otherwise.

[emptyplayer]

I don't really do pvp in freeroam so can't really comment, however one could look at the same view when it comes to racing. Kerb/bump surfing is in the game and available to everyone to utilize but most serious contact racers consider it unfair, even cheating. It depends on the people involved and the view the majority take; everything is subjective.

[rapidwiz]

90% of the poll is just cheese-tastic tactics, only the modded accounts and invisible outfits.

Well the first two are obviously cheating (wall breaching/god mode) and modded accounts, the rest are not, it's normal mechanics of the game even though not popular, still not cheating.

I only consider invisible outfits cheating if the entire body is invisible, even if you have invisible arms or even torso, you're not exactly cheating, some people just do it because it looks cool.

Looking cool is one thing, but really people do it because it gives them an advantage of not been able to be seen easily or shot, so I would consider it cheating if you participating in PVP and no it doesn't look cool, you look like a douch bag with no arms, legs or body.

Edited May 3, 2016 by rapidwiz