what is cheating?

[size_m]

due to a discussion about different interpretations of cheating in another thread i would like to continue this discussion in an extra thread about cheating to avoid further derailing into offtopic in that other thread.

 

the discussion originally started because a forum member claims to be a very good and skilled fighter in free roam ("one of the best of this froum") while (or because of) frequently using "the easy way out" in a 1v1 free roam deathmatch to prevent being killed by his opponent's hands which results in "winning" the 1v1 deathmatch.

 

because he seems to be pretty good and practised using this technique and nobody has beaten him in this kind of combat until now he claims to be the best (or one of the best) free roam fighters of this forum and everybody fears him because nobody wants to play with/against him in a free roam 1v1 deathmatch.

 

his argument about this suicide tactic is that it's not cheating because it is an available option in the game and using it would be part of being a skilled fighter.

 

i consider this "tactic" clearly as cheating in its best as it is a misuse and even a abuse of this game mechanic/option to get an unfair and cowardly advantage over the opponent.

tricking out the game mechanics (counting/scoring mechanics in 1v1 deathmatches) cannot be considered as a fair and "skilled" ground combatin my oppinion.

 

so all of this seems to be an issue due to different individual interpretation of the term "cheating", as there are no facts to proof that suiciding in combat is really cheating or not.

unfortuantely we don't know if the devs at rockstar have actually intended this "easy way out" option as a legit combat tactic or simply for other situations like being trapped inside some place or even for losing wanted level etc.

 

so his interpretation of cheating is that if something is available to everyone it cannot be cheating and thus a fair thing.

 

whilst my interpretation is that misusing something which it was not intended for like that is called cheating.

in my opinion cheating has nothing to do if it was available or possible for everyone as most cheating tricks are available/possible for everyone.

cheating is nothing technical but rather a moral and ethical issue.

 

for those tl:dr :

so since there is no way to proof one's interpretation of cheating to be fact or rockstar's intention of the usage of the suicide option, it would be interesting to see what the majority of the community thinks about this and to discuss this case or just other ways of cheating in generell.

 

edit:

as still so many people think of cheating only being a technical issue such as modding/hacking or glitching and still answers related to this kind of thinking keep appearing in here, although i've tried to explain that there is more than technical ways of cheating, i will categorize the different kinds of cheating (and unfair game play) in the following to make the differences more obvious:

 

1. technical cheating by manipulating game code (modding/scripting/hacking):

this is probably the worst and most unfair kind of cheating as someone intentionally changes and manipulates certain things in the game code (i.e. by using instruments like mods/scripts) to get an unfair (and most likely illegal) advantage over others.

for this kind of cheating you would need certain third party tools/programs to make them possible, which makes it illegal by the terms of use of the game.

examples for this category of cheating would be modded accounts, several tricks and options from mod menus, and some types/methods of god mode (by modding tricks)

 

2. technical cheating by using unintended but existent errors or bugs in the game (glitching):

for this kind of cheating someone uses intentionally certain unintended bugs and possibilities to trick out the intended functionality of the game to get an unfair advantage over others.

these bugs are existing in the game and the possibility to (mis)use them are available to everyone.

therefore these tricks are not really illegal but they are still not wanted/intended by the terms of use.

examples would be wall breaching, invisible outfits, and also some types/methods of god mode (by glitching)

 

3. moral/ethical cheating by using existing options and functions in an unintended/unusual way

someone (mis)uses existing standard options which are provided by the game content but in a totally different way than its original intention and nature to get an unfair advantage over others.

this way of cheating is technically "allowed" and legitimate but it is totally against its original intention in an absurd and often even contrary way.

(as not every way of using something differently to its original intention is automatically cheating, therefore sometimes it is not so obvious and easy to clearly differentiate and determine if it is cheating or just a creative new way.)

because moral/etical cheating is not clearly to be recognized by single obvious facts from any kind of definition, it is somehow a rather subjective process.

but it should still be commonly known and realized as cheating if it violates the unwritten "code of conduct" based on common sense, logic, ethics/morality, and/or convention/norm of certain activities, practices, and functions to get an advantage over others.

examples would be the misuse of passive mode and suicide/"the easy way out"

 

(4. dirty/cheap/cowardly ways of playing which might be unfair but not cheating

this way is often pretty similar to the category 3 and therefore sometimes not easy to differentiate because the tricks or the usage of certain options/tools/functions/weapons may also be different or altered from its original intention.

but a difference would be that the intended function is pretty much unchanged and only the intended situation or case is somewhat different than originally supposed but not in such a absurd and contrary way like in category 3.

these dirty and cheap tactics don't contradict totally against common sense and human logic.

examples would be overusing several "overpowered" weapons even in originally unintended situations.)

Edited May 11, 2016 by size_m

[CrysisAverted]

I don't consider passive abuse or killing yourself cheating, I consider it more of a bitch move.

[SoDank_ItPainsMe]

Cheating is modifying game code or memory manipulation in order to make the game behave in a manner the developer and other players do not intend.

 

Exploiting glitches is a grey area, it is technically part of the game and the onus is on the developer to patch the glitch, the control over the situation lies with them if no other software is being used.

Edited May 2, 2016 by SoDank_ItPainsMe

[MRSJEIKS]

When you are not strong, be clever.

[Jerking For Soup]

This poll is a hunk of sh*t.

 

Nothing is cheating unless you're modding, hacking, exploiting all in the name of more cash and more epeen length.

 

Passive Mode is a game mechanic. Learn to tell the difference. It's a pussy move, like jet griefing and Kuruma kills, but it isn't hacking or modding. It's slightly similar to exploitation, but it isn't as bad.

 

Too many butthurt people in this community.

[dewtech]

I don't consider passive abuse or killing yourself cheating, I consider it more of a bitch move.

 

This,

 

Cheating is doing something the game isn't supposed to do normally, INvisable outfits and so on.

 

Passive abuse is a dumb move, but it's a legit dumb move...

[Spadge]

We're getting philosophical I see.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Spadge

[GR Choke]

unvisible outfits?

[Voit Turyv]

unvisible outfits?

unseeable*

[BatFerYou]

This looked like a good opportunity to clarify to everyone what "cheating" means as opposed to "using game mechanics provided" which many others have said anyway.

 

the discussion originally started because a forum member claims to be a very good and skilled fighter in free roam ("one of the best of this froum") while (or because of) frequently using "the easy way out" in a 1v1 free roam deathmatch to prevent being killed by his opponent's hands which results in "winning" the 1v1 deathmatch.

 

 

But it now looks like you have some kind of grudge and are looking for the rest of us to back you up...

[StangOne50]

This looked like a good opportunity to clarify to everyone what "cheating" means as opposed to "using game mechanics provided" which many others have said anyway.

 

the discussion originally started because a forum member claims to be a very good and skilled fighter in free roam ("one of the best of this froum") while (or because of) frequently using "the easy way out" in a 1v1 free roam deathmatch to prevent being killed by his opponent's hands which results in "winning" the 1v1 deathmatch.

 

 

But it now looks like you have some kind of grudge and are looking for the rest of us to back you up...

For once I kind of actually agree with this guy. Ive seen that thread and the guy is a total douche but he's not cheating by killing himself after a kill.

Theres a difference between using cheap tactics and cheating. Its common sense really.

Edited May 2, 2016 by StangOne50

[GR Choke]

 

unvisible outfits?

unseeable*

 

thanks

 

 

 

 

[dewtech]

I propose a follow up question...

 

 

What is love?

 

 

Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more...

[nWo_Y2J_2015]

what is cheating?

Cheating

 

Also, "in particular: would you consider passive mode and/or suiciding during a combat situation as cheating?" makes this a B&M thread.

Edited May 2, 2016 by nWo_Y2J_2015

[Furry_Monkey]

Eating's cheating.

 

Damn I should have eaten something before I went out yesterday. If only there was a mind-numbing violent online outlet that would allow me to detach myself from this mild hangover.

 

Some of the stuff in that list I don't like, use, or agree with, but that doesn't mean I'd call it cheating. Also, if the "(mis)using" options just said "misusing" then I would have ticked them too, but I can't say using passive or suicide are cheating when they're not misused.

[livejoker]

Cheating is when the other guy is better than me and I refuse to blame it on my lack of skills.

I KNOW THAT SNIPER SHOT WAS BULLsh*t, XxMahblazexX, I WAS DRIVING IN ZIGZAGS GODDAMNIT!

OT: Seriously, cheating is abusing game mechanics such as glitches to gain an unfair advantage. By that logic, suicide in 1v1 is pretty much cheating...but it falls more in the "damn, that's a bitch move" category. It's a muddy line. There's also having a hacked/modded account but that's in the modding category, which is higher up than cheating. There's two levels of cheaters: those that use in-game tactics and those that use real-world tactics. Seems you're taking that cheating thing to heart, though, OP. You're best to ignore it and move on. If someone is cheating against you, go in passive and move on or just straight up change sessions. If I could give myself advice into the past I'd say not to spend another damn second fighting an unfair fight. It's like I'm a gladiator...except I'm not, only a dude with a towel as a diaper with a gun that points towards myself and I'm fighting a lion on steroids who's got a remote controller that fires my own weapon into my own chest.

Yeah, it's enraging but there's nothing you can do about it.

Also, if you have to ask a forum what in-game cheating is, you pretty much deserve to be griefed/cheated on. Those who know better won't put up with that sh*t and that's the smart move.

Also also, GTA has no morals. I heard Club Penguin is having a sale at the moment.

Edited May 2, 2016 by livejoker

[MCMXCII]

I consider cheating as someone who uses a mod menu to give a unfair advantage over other players and ruin the game for others. Blowing up lobbies, taking away someone's weapons, godmode, etc.

 

Stuff like that is what I consider cheating.

[OBeef619]

Cheating is where 1 has a distinct advantage over the opposition. If the opposition is unable to access the features the other is using, they are cheating.

[iddqdvie]

using game glitches is not cheating, actually only getting third party software is considered cheating. using all game mechanics like combat roll and sh*t is not cheating but just lame.

consider this: even in a f*cking REAL WORLD WAR, there is the "Genfer Convention" that are basically RULES for whats NOT ALLOWED in a war. (like bullet speed limits... oh yes!) never heared of it? it should change your perspective on this world and its wars in general.

 

and with some feature its just the same. it might be a game and sh*t but dude, if u play a real life paintball game with me and you do some annoying sh*t that should not be done, i'd just avoid you, never play with or against u ever again because you are behaving like an asshole.

[size_m]

This poll is a hunk of sh*t.

 

Nothing is cheating unless you're modding, hacking, exploiting all in the name of more cash and more epeen length.

 

Passive Mode is a game mechanic. Learn to tell the difference. It's a pussy move, like jet griefing and Kuruma kills, but it isn't hacking or modding. It's slightly similar to exploitation, but it isn't as bad.

 

Too many butthurt people in this community.

some people like you seem to think that cheating was the same as hacking/modding.

but it's not the same.

hacking/modding a technical way to cheat.

but there are also moral and ethical ways to cheat.

that means using technical possible options differently than originally intended or against the moral and ethical rules.

of course is hacking/modding cheating but cheating is not neccessarily only hacking/modding.

 

i'm not butthurt at all because of your different opinion.

and why is this poll a "hunk of sh*t" only because of another opinion?

[dewtech]

using game glitches is not cheating, actually only getting third party software is considered cheating. using all game mechanics like combat roll and sh*t is not cheating but just lame.

 

consider this: even in a f*cking REAL WORLD WAR, there is the "Genfer Convention" that are basically RULES for whats NOT ALLOWED in a war. (like bullet speed limits... oh yes!) never heared of it? it should change your perspective on this world and its wars in general.

 

and with some feature its just the same. it might be a game and sh*t but dude, if u play a real life paintball game with me and you do some annoying sh*t that should not be done, i'd just avoid you, never play with or against u ever again because you are behaving like an asshole.

You mean the Geneva convention by any chance? Genfer sounds like a pharmaceutical company

[namless1]

Same as some people mentioned above - I take anything that requires some modifications to memory/game files and could lead to banishment as cheating. Suiciding and passive mode abuse are just part of the game, anyone can use them.

 

You have to keep one thing in mind - those suiciding 'pvp masters' couldn't do it as effectively if they haven't gotten lots of cash to fund their routine of 400$ for hospital (+ often 700$(?) for rocket that drops from them if they suicide with RPG) routine. And as they mostly inhabit freeroam, I'm pretty sure they mainly get that cash by illegal means, any legit player would go broke pretty soon this way.

[Furry_Monkey]

 

using game glitches is not cheating, actually only getting third party software is considered cheating. using all game mechanics like combat roll and sh*t is not cheating but just lame.

 

consider this: even in a f*cking REAL WORLD WAR, there is the "Genfer Convention" that are basically RULES for whats NOT ALLOWED in a war. (like bullet speed limits... oh yes!) never heared of it? it should change your perspective on this world and its wars in general.

 

and with some feature its just the same. it might be a game and sh*t but dude, if u play a real life paintball game with me and you do some annoying sh*t that should not be done, i'd just avoid you, never play with or against u ever again because you are behaving like an asshole.

You mean the Geneva convention by any chance? Genfer sounds like a pharmaceutical company

 

 

Or a redneck calling his daughter after Jennifer Lopez.

[dewtech]

 

 

using game glitches is not cheating, actually only getting third party software is considered cheating. using all game mechanics like combat roll and sh*t is not cheating but just lame.

 

consider this: even in a f*cking REAL WORLD WAR, there is the "Genfer Convention" that are basically RULES for whats NOT ALLOWED in a war. (like bullet speed limits... oh yes!) never heared of it? it should change your perspective on this world and its wars in general.

 

and with some feature its just the same. it might be a game and sh*t but dude, if u play a real life paintball game with me and you do some annoying sh*t that should not be done, i'd just avoid you, never play with or against u ever again because you are behaving like an asshole.

You mean the Geneva convention by any chance? Genfer sounds like a pharmaceutical company

 

Or a redneck calling his daughter after Jennifer Lopez.

 

Ba Dum Tish

[Hunter]

It pretty much is cheating yeah, in my opinion. Regardless of the technicalities, I don't think anyone using those two can claim to be playing fair lol.

[NBAKingzFan10]

Sorry (not sorry), but "unfair and cowardly" =/= cheating. A bitch move, undoubtedly, but that's where it begins and ends.

 

I think the word you're looking for is "cheap", not "cheat". Easy mistake, I'm sure, given the identical spelling and pronunciation.

 

but there are also moral and ethical ways to cheat.

that means using technical possible options differently than originally intended or against the moral and ethical rules.

I'd be thrilled if you could both point me towards the press release that specifies the intention of the suicide option, as well as the closest library in my area where I might pick up a the latest edition of "GTA Online: The Moral and Ethical Rulebook". Thank you in advance for your cooperation. Edited May 2, 2016 by NBAKingzFan10

[Neuling2000]

 

This looked like a good opportunity to clarify to everyone what "cheating" means as opposed to "using game mechanics provided" which many others have said anyway.

 

the discussion originally started because a forum member claims to be a very good and skilled fighter in free roam ("one of the best of this froum") while (or because of) frequently using "the easy way out" in a 1v1 free roam deathmatch to prevent being killed by his opponent's hands which results in "winning" the 1v1 deathmatch.

But it now looks like you have some kind of grudge and are looking for the rest of us to back you up...

 

For once I kind of actually agree with this guy. Ive seen that thread and the guy is a total douche but he's not cheating by killing himself after a kill.

Theres a difference between using cheap tactics and cheating. Its common sense really.

 

He commits suicide every time. He fires rockets and grenades and then suicides. He spawns and suicides till he has a better position. Instead of using the marksman or heavy sniper he suicides.

[BoJack Cognac]

due to a discussion about different interpretations of cheating in another thread i would like to continue this discussion in an extra thread about cheating to avoid further derailing into offtopic in that other thread.

 

the discussion originally started because a forum member claims to be a very good and skilled fighter in free roam ("one of the best of this froum") while (or because of) frequently using "the easy way out" in a 1v1 free roam deathmatch to prevent being killed by his opponent's hands which results in "winning" the 1v1 deathmatch.

 

because he seems to be pretty good and practised using this technique and nobody has beaten him in this kind of combat until now he claims to be the best (or one of the best) free roam fighters of this forum and everybody fears him because nobody wants to play with/against him in a free roam 1v1 deathmatch.

 

his argument about this suicide tactic is that it's not cheating because it is an available option in the game and using it would be part of being a skilled fighter.

The dude's a lying piece of sh*t, because I've been fighting that way and bragging about it for over 2 and a half years now in this forum. What I mean by "lying" is that I've been doing it longer, so I'd wreck him.

[OBeef619]

It pretty much is cheating yeah, in my opinion. Regardless of the technicalities, I don't think anyone using those two can claim to be playing fair lol.

But is it fair for someone that died to re-enter the battle with full health and no police while the killer has police and depleted health?

 

I stand and deliver myself but I can see how the suiciders see a loss of health/police attention as an unfair advantage themselves.

[size_m]

for me the keyword here is the "intention" of the provided options by the rockstar devs.

 

there are different ways of cheating (not only the technical ways like modding/hacking and also glitching).

 

i also know that not all ways of misusing something for an unfair advantage is automatically cheating.

therefore i don't consider the misuse of certain weapons and jet griefing or sniping as cheating although it might be seen as unfair or "bitch move" by some people.

but the possibilities and potential intentions for using these examples are clear and exspectable for most players.

 

but the intention for passive mode and suicide is clearly another one than using it as a combat tactic and tricking out opponents.

 

don't get me wrong, i'm not butthurt or want to bitch&moan about this.

i was not fighting that guy i mentioned in the op myself.

i just wanna discuss in here instead of in that other thread about this issue.

 

as i can see now most of the differences in interpretations/opinions about cheating are that many people see only the technical side of cheating, such as moddig and hacking and not so much the moral/ethical side of applying existing options differently than they were intended to.

 

it is even shown in the definition of "cheating" that it is not only a technical issue but also about breaking moral and ethical rules (which should be common sense):

Cheating is the getting of a reward for ability or finding an easy way out of an unpleasant situation by dishonest means. It is generally used for the breaking of rules to gain unfair advantage in a competitive situation. This broad definition will necessarily include acts of bribery, cronyism, nepotism, sleaze and any situation where individuals are given preference using inappropriate criteria.^[1]The rules infringed may be explicit, or they may be from an unwritten code of conduct based on morality, ethics or custom, making the identification of cheating conduct a potentially subjective process.

 

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating

 

so in my opinion and interpretation misusing passive mode and suiciding during pvp combat clearly fits into this definition of cheating, while other things like rpging, jet griefing, sniping, and kuruma killing are just cheap unfair bitch tactics but not cheating.

Edited May 2, 2016 by size_m