Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!

    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

      1. PC
      2. Gameplay
      3. Missions
      4. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Online

      1. Gameplay
      2. Find Lobbies & Outlaws
      3. Help & Support
      4. Frontier Pursuits
    1. Crews & Posses

      1. Recruitment
    2. Events

    1. GTA Online

      1. Diamond Casino & Resort
      2. DLC
      3. Find Lobbies & Players
      4. Guides & Strategies
      5. Vehicles
      6. Content Creator
      7. Help & Support
    2. Grand Theft Auto Series

    3. GTA 6

    4. GTA V

      1. PC
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Help & Support
    5. GTA IV

      1. Episodes from Liberty City
      2. Multiplayer
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
      5. GTA IV Mods
    6. GTA Chinatown Wars

    7. GTA Vice City Stories

    8. GTA Liberty City Stories

    9. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA SA Mods
    10. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA VC Mods
    11. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA III Mods
    12. Top Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    13. Wiki

      1. Merchandising
    1. GTA Modding

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    3. Featured Mods

      1. DYOM
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Red Dead Redemption

    2. Rockstar Games

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Programming
      5. Movies & TV
      6. Music
      7. Sports
      8. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    1. News

    2. Forum Support

    3. Site Suggestions

Sign in to follow this  
el_make

Veganism, animal rights & factory farming

Recommended Posts

Caysle

I think veganism is a virtuous act and I respect people for it, but giving up on such nutritious food like meat and eggs seems scary to me. Eggs are probably the closest thing we will ever get to a "perfect" food, and meat is even better than that. Then I also think any fact/phenomenon that doesn't benefit humanity shouldn't be considered ethical, and to think animals (at least the ones we consume) doesn't give rats ass about ethics, makes this whole veganism thing look stupid. Why bother?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Eutyphro

We have a higher consciousness than animals, so we have the ability to minimize suffering. But that doesnt mean we are ethically obligated to provide animals with a fundamental right to life. And yeah, eggs are pretty much the most complete food in the world. Supposedly liver is also incredible nutritionally, but it's not an attractive food to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DareYokel
1 hour ago, Eutyphro said:

And yeah, eggs are pretty much the most complete food in the world.

Yup. Nutritious, tasty and cheap! Perfect food.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jpm1
Posted (edited)
On 3/3/2019 at 8:13 PM, Eutyphro said:

We have a higher consciousness than animals, so we have the ability to minimize suffering. But that doesnt mean we are ethically obligated to provide animals with a fundamental right to life. And yeah, eggs are pretty much the most complete food in the world. Supposedly liver is also incredible nutritionally, but it's not an attractive food to me.

if you can proove me this with a scientific reference, i rep you

what i'm trying to say here. it's that the people who say human is superior to animal have all one thing in common, they can't bring scientific facts to their affirmations. this is the whole problem of animal rights, and more globally species. in old testament in the Bible once you can read you will rule over all th animals. may i just remind to people that think this is good, that the Bible (old testament) also says you will kill the prostitute, you will own slaves, you will kill the criminal. i'm talking of the old testament here. i say it again for those that don't know well the Bible

this being said, the more you get info about animal intelligence, or more globally species, the more you realize that intelligence has no scientific value, and same goes for species. i'm talking of scientific serious experiences here, not philosophy

 

personnally i don't judge meat eaters, because some people can't do other way. but i think veganism is definitely the future. for the reasons above, but also because cattle industry is very bad for the climate, and global warming

one last thing. i'm firmly against public bashing of any kind. if i can understand that some veganists can be very upset, by the animal abuse. this is not by bashing people that you solve problems

Edited by jpm1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Otter

hey guys, long time, etc.

 

An interesting development, personally - I've been on a vegetarian diet for about a year and a half now, give or take. It was a large shift but, surprisingly, really simple.

 

My motivations were manifold - my business partners are both veggie boys, my wife was upset we were eating so much (I love cooking, particularly cooking meat) and I'm having trouble reconciling my desire to be a positive impact on the environment with the idea of supporting factory farming. Now, there are probably a series of complicated checks and balances I could work out to allow me to eat meat if, say... I raised it myself, knew the producers, knew where it was hunted trapped or fished... etc. But the simplest way to tick off all my boxes was to come up with a stupid little rule: I don't eat anything with a face.

 

A couple of my bigger takeaways have been counter-intuitive. First, given the infrastructure that surrounds us today - you don't need to eat meat to survive. In fact, I'm far healthier and I certainly haven't cut back on alcohol. I'm actually building muscle for the first time since... who knows. My family has a history of heart problems and arthritis, both of which were becoming issues in the past few years, and both of which have been reduced significantly. I do take vitamin supplements - particularly b12.

 

Secondly, cost-wise, if you educate yourself and prep your own food, it can be considerably cheaper! Learning to make my own seitan and crash coursing through indian cookbooks has been really helpful. I've often heard the argument that vegetarianism is a financial barrier. That going veggie is a privilege limited to those above a certain income. I completely disagree. This may change wildly given your location but, unless your current diet consists of mainly McValue Items (something that can also be addressed with a little food prep education) you'd have to buy some pretty pricey produce to compete with the cost of meat.

 

Of course, I'd argue that these two factors reflect eating a vegetarian diet in a world that is completely dominated by carnivores. That can't be dismissed. And I love eggs and cheese - not ready to move away from that quite yet. My take on a veggie diet, so far? It's not a one-step solution for environmental piety, but it's a solid foundation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trip

I'm omnivorous but rarely eat meat.  My wife is a true vegetarian of close to 40 years now.  Not vegan - just a strict vegetarian.

 

Otter, I might argue you on the cost savings.  Once you start adding in the prepared vegi products they got ya by the balls?  Ever buy vegetarian bacon?   sh*ts expensive.

 

I just dropped in to throw off the flow here with a wacky news article that caught my eye today.

 

Two men fined for eating raw squirrels to protest veganism as people begged them to stop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jpm1

i came to the conclusion that animals rights are closely tied to meat eating. people who eat meat (again i don't judge anyone here) have to realize that saying i want better living, and more respect for animals, and i want my T-bone steak on the grill, are 2 fundamentally contradictory.things  you can't have both. you have to make a choice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Otter

Trip, I was more saying that I've heard many times that vegetarian diets are a form of classism, or that it's a privilege only those above a certain income range can afford. I don't buy that!

 

However, since you bring it up, in Canada - particularly the west - meat is pretty pricey. Most meat alternatives, if you want to compare one to one, aren't really much pricier, pound for pound. Some, like Beyond Meat or some Field Roast products are pretty expensive but they're fun for a treat and if you eat that much fake meat you'll need to invest in some good probiotics to deal with the wasteland they make of your guts.

 

But a bag of lentils is gonna be a sh*t ton cheaper than a tube of sausage. Flavor mileage may vary!

 

I've not found a good veggie bacon yet. Not a fan of tempeh either but I haven't tried it in ages -- maybe I've forgotten the taste of meat enough to savor some of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trip
1 hour ago, Otter said:

Trip, I was more saying that I've heard many times that vegetarian diets are a form of classism, or that it's a privilege only those above a certain income range can afford. I don't buy that!

I dont buy that either.  My wife grew up poor and we lived a very poor life together for many many years.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jpm1

you can make yourself kings buffets with organic crudités. and they are cheap for the most. and super healthy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GTA_CAT

I couldn't turn into veganism or vegetarianism. I think it would affect my health, as I do physical activity where my muscles, articulations and bones can suffer from fatigue or weaken as well as having muscle catabolism. However, I have reduced the amount of proteins I take in general, specially cutting them from meat, while I have increased the amount from other sources like beans, nuts... I have calculated the amount of protein grams I should ingest everyday just to maintain my body and I stick to it. I try to buy quality meat from butcher that grows cattle nearby (no factories) and avoid grocery store products, unless I can prove the source of the meat is good enough. 

Unfortunately I see that people eat meat generally for the taste, rather than giving more importance to nutritional qualities, apart from demanding low prices, thing that makes the meat industry more dehumanized.

In general, the tendency is to eat processed or harmful foods because are tastier or easier to prepare, while staying away from vegetables, fruits... We have totally neglected our diet.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spectre07
10 hours ago, GTA_CAT said:

Unfortunately I see that people eat meat generally for the taste

True, but at the same time some people can lose the taste too.

 

I don’t like meat and chicken anymore, but I am far away to be vegan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ned Bingham

I always knew that one day I'd be able to gloat about all those pious and righteous vegan types

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49579820

Edited by Short Stay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NaidRaida

Do you think it is insincere to buy just high quality (expensive) meat?

 

I have the hope that those animals had a better life than "discounter meat" animals. Sounds insincere somehow and maybe naive.

 

This behavior looks decadent too, but my urge is not to pay much, I know that cheap meat means cheap production and vice versa.

 

I tried to quit with meat completely sometimes but I couldn't hang on long time. Not because I wanted meat and ONLY MEAT, it just happened. I didn't even think about it. Like breathing, it just happened. This seems also related to the culture you live in I think.

 

 

Edited by NaidRaida

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jpm1
Posted (edited)
On 8/18/2019 at 1:00 AM, GTA_CAT said:

I couldn't turn into veganism or vegetarianism. I think it would affect my health, as I do physical activity where my muscles, articulations and bones can suffer from fatigue or weaken as well as having muscle catabolism. However, I have reduced the amount of proteins I take in general, specially cutting them from meat, while I have increased the amount from other sources like beans, nuts... I have calculated the amount of protein grams I should ingest everyday just to maintain my body and I stick to it. I try to buy quality meat from butcher that grows cattle nearby (no factories) and avoid grocery store products, unless I can prove the source of the meat is good enough. 

Unfortunately I see that people eat meat generally for the taste, rather than giving more importance to nutritional qualities, apart from demanding low prices, thing that makes the meat industry more dehumanized.

In general, the tendency is to eat processed or harmful foods because are tastier or easier to prepare, while staying away from vegetables, fruits... We have totally neglected our diet.

 

 

i run 10 km every 2 days, i'm 100% meat free, and i have absolutely no problem. i run half flat, half steep. to this i add 2 hours of boxing per week, and 1 hour of fitness (abs...) per week. i eat lot of crudities coz i'm a bit lazy. so i don't want to spend long on cooking. but 85% of my vegetables are bio (i think it's called organic in English). i buy my stuff at the local organic shop, thus i eat lot of seasonal, and local. i eat eggs though. but eggs from my chicken. much more nutritious than commerce, and chickens that die of their old days 👍. this is my only concession to the 'meat world' even though i repeat, my chicken die of oldness

 

On 9/14/2019 at 11:02 PM, NaidRaida said:

Do you think it is insincere to buy just high quality (expensive) meat?

 

I have the hope that those animals had a better life than "discounter meat" animals. Sounds insincere somehow and maybe naive.

 

This behavior looks decadent too, but my urge is not to pay much, I know that cheap meat means cheap production and vice versa.

 

I tried to quit with meat completely sometimes but I couldn't hang on long time. Not because I wanted meat and ONLY MEAT, it just happened. I didn't even think about it. Like breathing, it just happened. This seems also related to the culture you live in I think.

 

 

i have to agree sadly with this. the meat you eat is probably from dairy cows, which are abused during all their life. and even though you'd buy a 'real' meat race, the simple fact of not stopping buying meat, you condomne the meat industry, and all its abuses. i don't want to tell people what to do here. but this is something really important. if animal abuses exist, it's because some people buy meat. as long as that industry will exist (not pointing out the industry itself here, but the consummers who make that industry exist) there will be animal abuses

Edited by jpm1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Evil empire
Posted (edited)

The problem is not the fact some persons eat meat it's the way the animals are treated by many companies.

 

Why? Because any psychopath can lead a company and act like the monster disguised as a human being he is, unpunishedly. The bosses these so-called "elites of the nation, motors of the society and creators of wealths" are the professional group with the highest rate of psychopaths by the way. http://www.businessinsider.fr/us/professions-with-the-most-psychopaths-2018-5

Because people aren't educated to recognize the psychopathic rubbish wastes' characteristics.

Because many politicians work for companies as "advisors" and receive "commissions" for this.

Because the absence of financial transparency makes these "commissions" are in fact bribes to reward politicians rotten to the cord and definitely undeserving of their power.

Because nothing prevents a boss from owning a politicial power as well.

(These 3 latter points make the intervention of the state in many capitalist countries is as neutral as in the marxist-leninist dictatorships by the way.)

Because nothing prevents a boss from owning medias or the state from controlling medias through "subsidies" even if the freedom of the press is one of the fundaments of democracy.

Because the prosecutors sometimes directly work for the state like in the so-called "french justice" even if the independence of justice is another fundament of democracy.

Because the penalties aren't automatized depending on the facts which make the bosses and their politicial crime partners can commit the worst crimes against the animals like the population then bribe the prosecutor and the jurors, blackmail the witnesses and get away with a tap on the fingers.

Because the penalty is always cancellable even when there's no risk of judicial fault and the culprit is likely to be freed as soon as the popular pressure falls.

 

 

To make it short the scandal with the way many companies torture their animals doesn't come from the fact many persons are carnivorous but from the concentration of powers.

Edited by Evil empire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Caysle

I watched gamechangers. I'm somewhat convinced, still have some questions though.

There is a big difference between processed meat and normal meat. Former can last a long time, is fake and probably full of ingredients you wouldn't want in your body. Latter fares much better in a lot of these. In the whole show they weren't differentiated from each other.

 

Influential people going vegan. Arnold build those muscles by eating meat, he wouldn't be the same man today if he adopted vegan lifestyle from early on. And the big dude who can lift a car from ground. There's no doubt he's strong as sh*t but let's be honest, I don't care about lifting a car from ground and I sure as sh*t don't want to look like him. Many men will agree with me.

Blood plasma going blurry. I don't understand what does that prove exactly. Either it wasn't mentioned or I wasn't listening carefully.

Dick going limp on an overnight of a meat diet. Well it was only a night of sleep? Most people on the show had been on a vegan diet for a long time and the benefits of it came later. All of a sudden that narrative is dropped and you're told you can get a better hard-on if you eat veggies just for a day? Same thing as associating meat with manliness like the meat eaters/meat industry does (which was criticized in the show) and I'd choose meat over "vegan" if it came to manliness tbh. I guess this kind of sh*t is hardwired, almost like a desire you can't get rid of

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Caysle

There's also this


EJASS11UcAELvZ8?format=png&name=small

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • 1 User Currently Viewing
    0 members, 0 Anonymous, 1 Guest

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.