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Should the next GTA be more serious?


UAL

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Ryo256
2 minutes ago, Kris194 said:

What you seem to ask about means scrapping everything what Rockstar achieved for the last 12 years, huge, huge downgrade to the series.

We already have that. It's called GTA V. 

It's time Rockstar learn how to downgrade properly this time.

 

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Kris194

Downgrade? We need upgrade on every level compared to GTA V, not downgrade. By the way, in serious game you can always cause a lot of havoc but some wacky, OTT game will never be able to get serious. It's like trying to turn Saints Row into RDR series, just doesn't work.

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Ryo256
56 minutes ago, Kris194 said:

Downgrade? We need upgrade on every level compared to GTA V, not downgrade. By the way, in serious game you can always cause a lot of havoc but some wacky, OTT game will never be able to get serious.

I was joking. 

Actually you need to re-read what I wrote and understand how I am suggesting VI can surpass V. V is already a downgrade, a huge one if you should know. If only Rockstar knew what they were doing, it could have been better as a fun game than most people claim it to be.

Also I really wanna know how one causes havoc in missions like Scouting the Port as Trevor. Because that is more of the "serious" aspects of V.....but you can't, because if you do anything stupid in these kind of missions, you will get a mission failure. Why? Why is this nonsense such serious business in a GTA game? Not even IV was this serious about such crap......sure they have always been mission failed points in every GTA game but V just takes itself too seriously.....because Trevor blowing his cover during a scouting mission means he can't get information on the heist, he can't plan oh boo hoo...like I should care.

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ChiroVette
19 minutes ago, Ryo256 said:

V is already a downgrade, a huge one if you should know.

I have to disagree with you on this. V was far from perfect. It has its flaws, but in my estimation, it is a great attempt at a balance between the wackyness of SA and the slow, pomposity and very repetitive gameplay of IV. And while it could have been better, I think it achieves this balance pretty nicely. Look, in the end, after being a longtime GTA fanboy, I was done with GTA in 2008. Rockstar seemed firmly headed on that path of realism, and I thought that as unfortunate as it was, this was the new norm for GTA. Thank God I was wrong! I mean, I went into V with very justified sh*t-colored glasses, so I really expected very little. In fact, and I think my initial posts on this forum in 2013 will bear this out, I was complaining about the game being much too IV-samey for my tastes, and I came very close to just giving it up, believing my fears for GTA, after IV, were apparently justified. But on another site, a huge gaming/tech site that is my home, I had a friend of mine beg me not to give up on it. He promised me that I was only looking at the game wrong, being a little bitter about IV, and if I kept going, I would see a huge difference between the games. It turns out he was right and I was wrong. This is not to suggest you're wrong. I won't condescend to tell you what you should and shouldn't like in a game. I only wanted to share my experiences, as well as some of the reasons why GTA V was like a life-raft in sea of "GTA is no longer GTA to me. Oh well."

 

By the way, just out of curiosity, regarding the statement I quoted above, are you talking about the SP of V, the Online, or both?

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Ryo256
2 minutes ago, ChiroVette said:

I have to disagree with you on this. V was far from perfect. It has its flaws, but in my estimation, it is a great attempt at a balance between the wackyness of SA and the slow, pomposity and very repetitive gameplay of IV. And while it could have been better, I think it achieves this balance pretty nicely. Look, in the end, after being a longtime GTA fanboy, I was done with GTA in 2008. Rockstar seemed firmly headed on that path of realism, and I thought that as unfortunate as it was, this was the new norm for GTA. Thank God I was wrong! I mean, I went into V with very justified sh*t-colored glasses, so I really expected very little. In fact, and I think my initial posts on this forum in 2013 will bear this out, I was complaining about the game being much too IV-samey for my tastes, and I came very close to just giving it up, believing my fears for GTA, after IV, were apparently justified. But on another site, a huge gaming/tech site that is my home, I had a friend of mine beg me not to give up on it. He promised me that I was only looking at the game wrong, being a little bitter about IV, and if I kept going, I would see a huge difference between the games. It turns out he was right and I was wrong. This is not to suggest you're wrong. I won't condescend to tell you what you should and shouldn't like in a game. I only wanted to share my experiences, as well as some of the reasons why GTA V was like a life-raft in sea of "GTA is no longer GTA to me. Oh well."

I feel like you have been a victim of Stockholm Syndrome haha. Okay okay, let's be serious now.  There is IV and SA in V if you look at it in a superficial way. But I'm only going to argue for the IV's side. R* doesn't understand what we loved about IV. The Scout the Port mission, driving a slow-ass submarine and when you finally try to finish the Merryweather heist, you watch as your reward gets taken away by Lester is the most snoozing experience I ever seen in a GTA game. It is one of parts that is worse than any possible snooze-fest experience you can get out of IV, not to mention very unfair and frustrating since that heist rewards you......absolutely nothing. Meanwhile III pays me 4k.....for the first mission.....FOR THE FIRST MISSION. Apparently V rewards you with.....more story content.....story which is IMO sh*t....isn't a reward for me personally (especially since previous GTA games gave you both story and other goodies like cash or whatever).

If this is V's idea of realism, please.....cut it out. Also please cut out being able to die so easily or getting cops on just because you sneezed near an NPC. We don't need these superficial restrictions in the name of realism. It's a problem when IV leaves me more laughing and satisfied than V, it's a problem when IV offers more freedom in a game than V. And that is my experience because I was looking forward to mischief and brighter skies in V......I guess I realized I had them all along in previous GTA games.
 

9 minutes ago, ChiroVette said:

By the way, just out of curiosity, regarding the statement I quoted above, are you talking about the SP of V, the Online, or both?

SP. Online is.....is a story for another day.

 

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Cheatz/Trickz

Is Chiro still acting like he knows what good writing is? Or is he still bashing the stories of games he didn’t understand/didn’t play whilst citing Hollywood movies as the gold standard?
 

Lol this guy...really 7 years? Well, new rumours and speculation combined with a global pandemic has a way of reuniting a forum community. But still, 7 years and still in denial?

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4 hours ago, Cheatz/Trickz said:


It sh*ts on V’s story because everything does, it’s equally as well written as IV’s. But...it is much better structured than IV’s which is mostly down to Rockstar’s getting better at gameplay and story segregation, so I understand how you made that mistake. And you’re forgiven. 

Nope I meant what I said it sh*ts all over GTAIV in almost every way lol. Even if we narrowed it down to one thing like the antagonists. Could you hand on heart say Dimitri and Jimmy P (lol) are a fraction as interesting and memorable as Dutch and Micah?

 

The ending of RDR2  is a gut punch..... The ending of  GTAIV is a big pile of nothing, Kate is dead I knew her for 5 minutes so I don't care. I took the easy choice got my revenge while adding more blood on Niko's hands and there was no real consequence because the character who suffered from my actions was someone not written well enough to make me care about losing her.

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ChiroVette
9 minutes ago, GR7 said:

Nope I meant what I said it sh*ts all over GTAIV in almost every way lol. Even if we narrowed it down to one thing like the antagonists. Could you hand on heart say Dimitri and Jimmy P (lol) are a fraction as interesting and memorable as Dutch and Micah?

 

The ending of RDR2  is a gut punch..... The ending of  GTAIV is a big pile of nothing, Kate is dead I knew her for 5 minutes so I don't care. I took the easy choice got my revenge while adding more blood on Niko's hands and there was no real consequence because the character who suffered from my actions was someone not written well enough to make me care about losing her.

 

Agreed with all of this. I never understood the IV fetishism, particularly with the story. Its literally riddled with cliche after mobster cliche. I don't even mind that its "so serious" as some complain. The thing is, I also completely understand the criticism of V's story from IV fans. If you're coming off of a dark, somber story, then get the videogame equivalent of one of the Beverly Hills Cop movies, only not nearly as good, it can be a bit of culture shock. Ya know, kinda like coming off of the awesomeness of San Andreas and into this pixelated mess of pure pomposity and developer self-indulgence that is IV. I actually understand the IV fans better than they think I do! The way they behave toward V, screaming, crying, whinging, and running around with their hair on fire like V means the end of the world is...well, its kind of like I was with GTA IV. In my defense, however, I dusted myself off, and started playing SR games, Just Cause, some of the Spidey sandbox games, and figured I would be moving on from GTA, I mean, it sucked, but its not like the franchise didn't have a great run, literally a boatload of PS2 games to love forever. But, it is what it is. Thank God Rockstar corrected what I honestly believe was a huge mistake when they released V.

 

 

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Cheatz/Trickz
39 minutes ago, GR7 said:

Nope I meant what I said it sh*ts all over GTAIV in almost every way lol. Even if we narrowed it down to one thing like the antagonists. Could you hand on heart say Dimitri and Jimmy P (lol) are a fraction as interesting and memorable as Dutch and Micah?

 

The ending of RDR2  is a gut punch..... The ending of  GTAIV is a big pile of nothing, Kate is dead I knew her for 5 minutes so I don't care. I took the easy choice got my revenge while adding more blood on Niko's hands and there was no real consequence because the character who suffered from my actions was someone not written well enough to make me care about losing her.


No you didn’t lol. RDR2 does a better job at telling its story, as I said it is structured better, but the actual writing of IV’s story itself is equally as great.
 

We’re not meant to care about Kate, the game doesn’t dedicate a longing cutscene on her death, it just happens and it’s done. We’re just supposed to see that Niko cared. We’re following Niko’s story as observers, with Arthur the game roots you firmly into his life, we’re meant to embody him, that’s why there is an honour system. It's why there is options to greet or antagonize, help or decline, it’s why you bond with your horse, because later it wants you to feel just as sh*tty as Arthur when it dies. It’s asking you to shape him. 

 

Two totally different intentions and approaches in each game. 

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38 minutes ago, Cheatz/Trickz said:


No you didn’t lol. RDR2 does a better job at telling its story, as I said it is structured better, but the actual writing of IV’s story itself is equally as great.
 

We’re not meant to care about Kate, the game doesn’t dedicate a longing cutscene on her death, it just happens and it’s done. We’re just supposed to see that Niko cared. We’re following Niko’s story as observers, with Arthur the game roots you firmly into his life, we’re meant to embody him, that’s why there is an honour system. It's why there is options to greet or antagonize, help or decline, it’s why you bond with your horse, because later it wants you to feel just as sh*tty as Arthur when it dies. It’s asking you to shape him. 

 

Two totally different intentions and approaches in each game. 

We're not supposed to care about a someone the character we've been following for 30+ hours cares about? Not sure about that one. How are we also not embodying Niko? An observer doesn't get to make choices but we clearly make several choices for Niko, don't try making up your own rules to prove a point lol.

 

The game shouldn't have to dedicate long cutscenes to make you care about a character, that's not how good writing works. Kate was just one example but GTAIV is full of unmemorable characters sprinkled in with the memorable ones. RDR2's character on average are all more memorable and interesting mainly because most of them are part of your gang... a gang you're supposed to be invested in because the protagonist you spend 30+ hours with cares about them.

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Kris194
24 minutes ago, GR7 said:

We're not suppose to care about a someone the character we've been following for 30+ hours cares about? Not sure about that one. How are we also not embodying Niko? An observer doesn't get to make choices but we clearly make several choices for Niko, don't try making up your own rules to prove a point lol.

 

The game shouldn't have to dedicate long cutscenes to make you care about a character, that's not how good writing works. Kate was just one example but GTAIV is full of unmemorable characters sprinkled in with the memorable ones. RDR2's character on average are all more memorable and interesting mainly because most of them are part of your gang... a gang you're supposed to be invested in because the protagonist you spend 30 hours with cares about them.

Why you, not Niko would care about character, that you saw for few minutes on screen(Kate)? Moreover, story of GTA IV can be completed in a little bit more than 20 hours, not 30. Niko comes to Liberty City because he hopes, that he will be able to start over there. As it turns out right on the beginning of the game, all what Roman wrote to him in letters is simply bullsh*t and from this moment you can see how Niko's life is getting more and more sh*tty. Whatever he (you) will do in game, you'll never see happy ending.

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Cheatz/Trickz
4 minutes ago, GR7 said:

We're not suppose to care about a someone the character we've been following for 30+ hours cares about? Not sure about that one. How are we also not embodying Niko? An observer doesn't get to make choices but we clearly make several choices for Niko, don't try making up your own rules to prove a point lol.

 

The game shouldn't have to dedicate long cutscenes to make you care about a character, that's not how good writing works. Kate was just one example but GTAIV is full of unmemorable characters sprinkled in with the memorable ones. RDR2's character on average are all more memorable and interesting mainly because most of them are part of your gang... a gang you're supposed to be invested in because the protagonist you spend 30+ hours with cares about them.


We make minute decisions for Niko that don’t shape him. It’s nothing like Arthur whom you are always defining. So how about you don’t stretch things out to make a comparison? It’s weak and shows you’ve got no proper rebuttal for what I said. You just thought “but Niko makes choices too!”, and start typing instead of thinking. Work on that. 
 

Your second paragraph is basically “I preferred more RDR2 characters than GTA IV characters”, well, that’s you. I’m more the opposite, there were many of the gang in RDR2 I didn’t give a toss about, I really only cared about Arthur and John. And Sadie obv. The others? Couldn’t care less. When Sean died? Not bothered. Lenny? Nope. Hosea? Oh well. 

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36 minutes ago, Cheatz/Trickz said:


We make minute decisions for Niko that don’t shape him. It’s nothing like Arthur whom you are always defining. So how about you don’t stretch things out to make a comparison? It’s weak and shows you’ve got no proper rebuttal for what I said. You just thought “but Niko makes choices too!”, and start typing instead of thinking. Work on that. 
 

Your second paragraph is basically “I preferred more RDR2 characters than GTA IV characters”, well, that’s you. I’m more the opposite, there were many of the gang in RDR2 I didn’t give a toss about, I really only cared about Arthur and John. And Sadie obv. The others? Couldn’t care less. When Sean died? Not bothered. Lenny? Nope. Hosea? Oh well. 

Minute? As in the one that potentially gets your cousin killed? As in the one where you decide if your version of Niko has grown enough to not kill the person he came to liberty city for in the first place? Stop it you're starting to sound silly now lol.

 

It's not just me the vast majority prefer RDR2 characters. How many memorable quotes from Dutch alone have you seen even outside of this forum? What memorable quotes did DImitri and Jimmy P (lol) have? The central antagonists to your 30 hour game feel like afterthoughts that you completely forget about until its time to go kill them. Even the antagonist of the DLC to the main game is way more memorable, somethings very wrong with that picture.

42 minutes ago, Kris194 said:

Why you, not Niko would care about character, that you saw for few minutes on screen(Kate)? Moreover, story of GTA IV can be completed in a little bit more than 20 hours, not 30. Niko comes to Liberty City because he hopes, that he will be able to start over there. As it turns out right on the beginning of the game, all what Roman wrote to him in letters is simply bullsh*t and from this moment you can see how Niko's life is getting more and more sh*tty. Whatever he (you) will do in game, you'll never see happy ending.

Erm there's literally an achievement for beating GTAIV in under 30 hours, it's supposed to roughly be a 30+ hour game lol. That's the problem though the difficult endgame choice is not a difficult endgame choice because Roman is the character that 99% of players would want to save. Revenge is basically the option.c of GTAIV. All benefits, no thought provoking consequences.

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Cheatz/Trickz
6 minutes ago, GR7 said:

Minute? As in the one that potentially gets your cousin killed? As in the one where you decide if your version of Niko has grown enough to not kill the person he came to liberty city for in the first place? Stop it you're starting to sound silly now lol.

 

It's not just me the vast majority prefer RDR2 characters. How many memorable quotes from Dutch alone have you seen even outside of this forum? What memorable quotes did DImitri and Jimmy P (lol) have? The central antagonists to your 30 hour game feel like afterthoughts that you completely forget about until its time to go kill them. Even the antagonist of the DLC to the main game is way more memorable, somethings very wrong with that picture.

Erm there's literally an achievement for beating GTAIV in under 30 hours, it's supposed to roughly be a 30+ hour game lol. That's the problem though the difficult endgame choice is not a difficult endgame choice because Roman is the character that 99% players would want to save. Revenge is basically the option.c of GTAIV. All benefits, no thought provoking consequences.


That’s not a decision that shapes Niko’s character it’s just a consequence. And you have no idea the consequence when you first make that choice. I thought was clear when I said they are minute in how they don’t shape or define Niko. Why are you trying so hard to force non existent comparisons? And i’m gonna need to see some citations and statistics for that vast majority claim friend. You get on that. 

 

“We can pick the game, Niko Bellic, but we cannot change the rules.” Great quote from Dimitri.

But lets not be silly and try and compare why a game from 2018 sees more internet activity compared to one from 2008. The internet and its inhabitants have changed and grown a lot since then. I’m afraid I have to call you stupid for that oversight. 
 

Don’t know what your point is about the game length or the trophy for it...

 

Right, the final choice in GTA IV, kinda like how in RDR2 you get a choice to go back for the money or help John escape...hmm, which one? Be a greedy moron or help John, the guy who I rooted for the whole first game...such a hard choice.

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iiCriminnaaL 49
29 minutes ago, GR7 said:

Erm there's literally an achievement for beating GTAIV in under 30 hours, it's supposed to roughly be a 30+ hour game lol. That's the problem though the difficult endgame choice is not a difficult endgame choice because Roman is the character that 99% of players would want to save. Revenge is basically the option.c of GTAIV. All benefits, no thought provoking consequences.

Except that the player isn't intended to know the consequences of each ending for the first time he's playing the game. If he knew about them somehow, then it's not the developers' problem.

 

Pretending that the Revenge ending is "basically the option C of GTA IV" doesn't do much neither, as losing Kate is a consequence, and while it's not as rough as losing Roman for most players, those who dated her for a fair period of time can see it even more.

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Algonquin Assassin
42 minutes ago, Cheatz/Trickz said:

Your second paragraph is basically “I preferred more RDR2 characters than GTA IV characters”, well, that’s you. I’m more the opposite, there were many of the gang in RDR2 I didn’t give a toss about, I really only cared about Arthur and John. And Sadie obv. The others? Couldn’t care less. When Sean died? Not bothered. Lenny? Nope. Hosea? Oh well. 

 

As much as I regard RDR2 as my favourite non-GTA R* game like GTA IV's story it's hardly infallible. There are a lot of characters in RDR2 that really aren't that memorable or I simply don't care about. Sadie in particular has some really change character development trajectory. She goes from being a grieving widow to a blood thirsty bounty hunter and it feels jarring since she basically disappears for most of the story then she comes back towards the end and only seems to serve a purpose in the epilogue. I don't remember a sharp spike like that from any of GTA IV's characters.

 

Most of the characters in RDR2 are the ones I cared about from RDR1.. Regarding Dimitri and Dutch I don't even see how they can be compared when they're two different types of villains and I see mentions of Dutch and Micah, but nothing for Milton who is actually the secondary antagonist in RDR2? Mustn't be as memorable as Dimitri or Pegorino.

 

 

15 minutes ago, GR7 said:

Erm there's literally an achievement for beating GTAIV in under 30 hours, it's supposed to roughly be a 30+ hour game lol. That's the problem though the difficult endgame choice is not a difficult endgame choice because Roman is the character that 99% of players would want to save. Revenge is basically the option.c of GTAIV. All benefits, no thought provoking consequences.

I don't agree with that.

 

When I first played through GTA IV and got to choose "Deal" or "Revenge" I didn't really know which way to go because I had Roman in one of my ears swaying me to choose Deal, but my gut instinct was to choose Revenge. Obviously now since everyone's played through the game we now what the consequences are, but playing GTA IV freshly no one knew that Roman was going to be killed.

 

Infact I chose Revenge in my latest save and I get what Cheats/Tricks is saying that Niko cares about her and we're observing his grief over losing her which is obvious after she dies. The consequence for losing Kate is Niko loses someone who he could've potentionally have spent the rest of his life with.

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33 minutes ago, Cheatz/Trickz said:


That’s not a decision that shapes Niko’s character it’s just a consequence. And you have no idea the consequence when you first make that choice. I thought was clear when I said they are minute in how they don’t shape or define Niko. Why are you trying so hard to force non existent comparisons? And i’m gonna need to see some citations and statistics for that vast majority claim friend. You get on that. 

 

“We can pick the game, Niko Bellic, but we cannot change the rules.” Great quote from Dimitri.

But lets not be silly and try and compare why a game from 2018 sees more internet activity compared to one from 2008. The internet and its inhabitants have changed and grown a lot since then. I’m afraid I have to call you stupid for that oversight. 
 

Don’t know what your point is about the game length or the trophy for it...

 

Right, the final choice in GTA IV, kinda like how in RDR2 you get a choice to go back for the money or help John escape...hmm, which one? Be a greedy moron or help John, the guy who I rooted for the whole first game...such a hard choice.

It's clearly a consequence that will go on the shape his character, we just never got to see how. We don't know the consequence on the first playthrough sure, but it's clearly the obvious option to take revenge on the guy who literally burnt your house down. The problem is the majority of players take that option off the bat and get an underwhelming ending. I don't know about you but having a memorable ending is key part to a good story to me at least.

 

I can't give you stats but if you look at how other forums talk about RDR2's story now compared to how they talked about GTAIV back in the day there's a clear winner. There was even that ongoing joke about one reviewer calling GTAIV's writing "oscar worthy"

 

A quick google search of GTAIV "oscar worthy" lead me to this thread. Have a good read https://www.neogaf.com/threads/looking-back-on-gta-ivs-oscar-worthy-story-spoilers-everywhere-for-gta-iv-dlc.676845/

 

Call me whatever you want I don't care..but name calling is usually the first step of admitting defeat lol. Wouldn't the fact that the internet has changed and grown lead to higher expectations? My stupid oversight also somehow strengthens my point since an older game that came out when there were less expectations from a game story still isn't as critically praised as a game story that came out recently.

 

 

I'm clearly quoting another person. He made it a point to call GTAIV a 20 hour game so I had to correct him lol.  

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Cheatz/Trickz
9 minutes ago, Algonquin Assassin said:

 

As much as I regard RDR2 as my favourite non-GTA R* game like GTA IV's story it's hardly infallible. There are a lot of characters in RDR2 that really aren't that memorable or I simply don't care about. Sadie in particular has some really change character development trajectory. She goes from being a grieving widow to a blood thirsty bounty hunter and it feels jarring since she basically disappears for most of the story then she comes back towards the end and only seems to serve a purpose in the epilogue. I don't remember a sharp spike like that from any of GTA IV's characters.

 

Most of the characters in RDR2 are the ones I cared about from RDR1.. Regarding Dimitri and Dutch I don't even see how they can be compared when they're two different types of villains and I see mentions of Dutch and Micah, but nothing for Milton who is actually the secondary antagonist in RDR2? Mustn't be as memorable as Dimitri or Pegorino.I


Absolutely, RDR2’s story is phenomenal on the whole, but I definitely got that same feeling with Sadie. I love her, but she does just sorta drop back in without much build up. I was hoping the gang would split and Arthur and Sadie would end up in New Austin with Bill because there is a screenshot of them in the wilderness on the box lol. The Guarma segment was very out of left field too. 
 

The comparisons that guy is putting forward are nonsensical. One could say Micah is pretty one dimensional because he’s not got any other side to him, whereas Dimitri had me fooled for the first few missions he’s in. Yeah he seemed to forget about Milton and all his memorable quotes. 

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48 minutes ago, Algonquin Assassin said:

 

Most of the characters in RDR2 are the ones I cared about from RDR1.. Regarding Dimitri and Dutch I don't even see how they can be compared when they're two different types of villains and I see mentions of Dutch and Micah, but nothing for Milton who is actually the secondary antagonist in RDR2? Mustn't be as memorable as Dimitri or Pegorino.

 

 

I don't agree with that.

 

When I first played through GTA IV and got to choose "Deal" or "Revenge" I didn't really know which way to go because I had Roman in one of my ears swaying me to choose Deal, but my gut instinct was to choose Revenge. Obviously now since everyone's played through the game we now what the consequences are, but playing GTA IV freshly no one knew that Roman was going to be killed.

 

Infact I chose Revenge in my latest save and I get what Cheats/Tricks is saying that Niko cares about her and we're observing his grief over losing her which is obvious after she dies. The consequence for losing Kate is Niko loses someone who he could've potentionally have spent the rest of his life with.

Different types of villains but villains nonetheless...highly forgettable ones. Nah I didn't forget about Milton It's just RDR2's villain representation is stacked enough compared to IV to not have to mention him lol. I added in Jimmy P because he's the clear second choice even though he was weak as f*ck. When Niko was yelling Jimmy P's name at the top of his lungs throughout the final mission I couldn't even pretend to feel a little of the hatred Niko felt at that moment, or any emotion for that matter.

 

It was the gut instinct because they didn't make the initial choice very difficult to begin with. Do I work with the untrustworthy guy who betrayed me, betrayed his best friend and burnt my house down? Or do I kill the untrustworthy guy who betrayed me betrayed his best friend and burnt my house down? Hmmm tough decision 🤔.

 

I get that Niko potentially lost out on a decent healthy relationship but the fact you can go on love meet and start hot coffeeing straight after the credits roll kind of takes any weight from that lol. Having no access to dating while Niko took time to grieve and move on could have been nice little touch they could have added to put the player in Niko's headspace more.

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Zello

 

Deal was a much better ending. Killing Dimitri was much more satisfying. The storm makes it much more intense.

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Cheatz/Trickz
40 minutes ago, GR7 said:

It's clearly a consequence that will go on the shape his character, we just never got to see how. We don't know the consequence on the first playthrough sure, but it's clearly the obvious option to take revenge on the guy who literally burnt your house down. The problem is the majority of players take that option off the bat and get an underwhelming ending. I don't know about you but having a memorable ending is key part to a good story to me at least.

 

I can't give you stats but if you look at how other forums talk about RDR2's story now compared to how they talked about GTAIV back in the day there's a clear winner. There was even that ongoing joke about one reviewer calling GTAIV's writing "oscar worthy"

 

A quick google search of GTAIV "oscar worthy" lead me to this thread. Have a good read https://www.neogaf.com/threads/looking-back-on-gta-ivs-oscar-worthy-story-spoilers-everywhere-for-gta-iv-dlc.676845/

 

Call me whatever you want I don't care..but name calling is usually the first step of admitting defeat lol. Wouldn't the fact that the internet has changed and grown lead to higher expectations? My stupid oversight also somehow strengthens my point since an older game that came out when there were less expectations from a game story still isn't as critically praised as a game story that came out recently.

 

 

Whether it does or not that happens after the game ends not during like with Arthur. You done with these bs comparisons yet?

 

It’s not so obvious, some players advocate the deal because they believe Niko would finally put aside his need for vengeance. Others think he’d put it to bed once and for all and not trust Dimitri again. Both options are viable and realistic given the story that precedes them and what Niko thinks he’s gonna get out of them at the time he makes the choice. It’s a legit dilemma and without knowledge of the outcome the player chooses what they think Niko would do.
 

It’s not like “save Roman” or “save Kate”, unlike RDR2 where Arthur's choices are meant to make the player feel just as conflicted because the choices are pretty blatant: “help John” or “go for money”, “help Sadie” or “don't help her”. Pretty different directions. 
 

Initial backlash to GTA IV was because it wasn’t like SA, nothing to do with the plot. Its favour has grown a lot as gamers matured, but it’s not a talking point now due to its age, hence why here is where its most discussed. It was ahead of its time and probably too complex for most of the actual children that were playing it. I was one of them, and my then child brain used to think IV was nothing on SA. Crowbcat made a great video showing as such (even the GTA V response video is full of IV praise in the comments). 
 

No stats, no surprises there. Wow, one thread where a guy said “oscar worthy” inviting anyone who didn’t like the game to come in and bash it. Not that it was a very long lasting thread, but wanna bet I can make a similar thread on Gamefaqs, call RDR2 “oscar worthy” and someone won’t chime in and say i’m crazy? Gimme a break. 

 

Your last paragraph is just stupid upon stupid.  It makes no sense. 

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ChiroVette
11 minutes ago, Cheatz/Trickz said:

Your last paragraph is just stupid upon stupid.

Its really so good to see you wholeheartedly embrace the concept of civil discourse in such a positive, uplifting way. Nothing at all gutter-sniping, condescending, or disparaging in your truly inspirational affectation of unconditional, positive regard.

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14 minutes ago, Cheatz/Trickz said:

 

 

Whether it does or not that happens after the game ends not during like with Arthur. You done with these bs comparisons yet?

 

It’s not so obvious, some players advocate the deal because they believe Niko would finally put aside his need for vengeance. Others think he’d put it to bed once and for all and not trust Dimitri again. Both options are viable and realistic given the story that precedes them and what Niko thinks he’s gonna get out of them at the time he makes the choice. It’s a legit dilemma and without knowledge of the outcome the player chooses what they think Niko would do.
 

It’s not like “save Roman” or “save Kate”, unlike RDR2 where Arthur's choices are meant to make the player feel just as conflicted because the choices are pretty blatant: “help John” or “go for money”, “help Sadie” or “don't help her”. Pretty different directions. 
 

Initial backlash to GTA IV was because it wasn’t like SA, nothing to do with the plot. Its favour has grown a lot as gamers matured, but it’s not a talking point now due to its age, hence why here is where its most discussed. It was ahead of its time and probably too complex for most of the actual children that were playing it. I was one of them, and my then child brain used to think IV was nothing on SA. Crowbcat made a great video showing as such (even the GTA V response video is full of IV praise in the comments). 
 

No stats, no surprises there. Wow, one thread where a guy said “oscar worthy” inviting anyone who didn’t like the game to cone in and bash it. Not that it was a very long lasting thread, but wanna bet I can make a similar thread on Gamefaqs, call RDR2 “oscar worthy” and someone won’t chime in and say i’m crazy? Gimme a break. 

 

Your last paragraph is just stupid upon stupid.  It makes no sense. 

I'm sorry but we're going in circles here I care but I honestly don't care enough to keep going back and fourth with you allll night. You clearly don't want to hear anything I have to say and just type regardless. The fact you even started arguing the relevance about me talking about the games length when that response wasn't even meant for you shows you're scrambling to find anything you can to argue against me with.

 

I'm really going to draw up a powerpoint presentation with stats to prove a guy on a forum wrong? Not happening mate, you have fingers to type with do your googles lol.

 

There you go calling me stupid again without even elaborating and once again....I don't care lol.

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Cheatz/Trickz
Just now, GR7 said:

I'm sorry but we're going in circles here I care but I honestly don't care enough to keep going back and fourth with you allll night. You clearly don't want to hear anything I have to say and just type regardless. The fact you even started arguing the relevance about the games length when that response wasn't even meant for you shows you're scrambling to find anything you can to argue against me with.

 

I'm really going to draw up a powerpoint presentation with stats to prove a guy on a forum wrong? Not happening mate, you have fingers to type with do your googles lol.

 

There you go calling me stupid again without even elaborating and once again....I don't care lol.


“You win”

 

I know. 

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Algonquin Assassin
59 minutes ago, Cheatz/Trickz said:


Absolutely, RDR2’s story is phenomenal on the whole, but I definitely got that same feeling with Sadie. I love her, but she does just sorta drop back in without much build up. I was hoping the gang would split and Arthur and Sadie would end up in New Austin with Bill because there is a screenshot of them in the wilderness on the box lol. The Guarma segment was very out of left field too. 

 

I liked the idea of her character, but it's a shame she's handled in such a messy and inconsistent way and yeah Guarma is easily RDR2's low point. Other than that it's a great story that I love as much as GTA IV's.

 

59 minutes ago, Cheatz/Trickz said:

The comparisons that guy is putting forward are nonsensical. One could say Micah is pretty one dimensional because he’s not got any other side to him, whereas Dimitri had me fooled for the first few missions he’s in. Yeah he seemed to forget about Milton and all his memorable quotes. 

Honestly I think Micah's overrated.

 

As you said he's pretty one dimensional and there's not a whole lot to his character other than he's just seems to be a scumbag for the sake of being one..Atleast Dimitri actually evolves.

 

 

35 minutes ago, GR7 said:

Different types of villains but villains nonetheless...highly forgettable ones. Nah I didn't forget about Milton It's just RDR2's villain representation is stacked enough compared to IV to not have to mention him lol. I added in Jimmy P because he's the clear second choice even though he was weak as f*ck. When Niko was yelling Jimmy P's name at the top of his lungs throughout the final mission I couldn't even pretend to feel a little of the hatred Niko felt at that moment, or any emotion for that matter.

I don't even think Pegorino's that great of an antagonist (as I mentioned on a previous page). It's just I find it humouress that you don't even bother to mention RDR2's secondary antagonist and/or all of his "memorable" quotes. 

 

 

35 minutes ago, GR7 said:

It was the gut instinct because they didn't make the initial choice very difficult to begin with. Do I work with the untrustworthy guy who betrayed me, betrayed his best friend and burnt my house down? Or do I kill the untrustworthy guy who betrayed me betrayed his best friend and burnt my house down? Hmmm tough decision 🤔.

So what's your answer for RDR2's end game choice then where we can choose to take money or save John? Infact I'm not even sure why RDR2 even has an end game choice since we know John lives by virtue he's the protagonist in RDR1 lol, but it makes it seem like the choice will alter things when all it does is slightly change up Arthur's death scene. Nothing more, nothing less. Tough choice indeed.

 

With GTA IV my instinct was to go after Dimitri for revenge, but choosing Deal was still a valid option especially by sparring Darko and maybe seeing that Niko took Roman's advice and revenge isn't going to solve anything. Niko even acknowledges that it's an oath he goes back on, but he'd do it out of his love/care for Roman and Mallorie.

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Just now, Cheatz/Trickz said:


“You win”

 

I know. 

You win endurance-wise...I honestly don't have the patience to keep going that's all. I've been down that road where I'm sending dissertations back and fourth with someone else on this same forum, these days I know when someone's hard headed enough to just bow out gracefully and make them feel like "They've won"

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Niobium
On 5/26/2020 at 7:25 PM, DexMacLeod said:

It's not consistent, though. The main character wasn't even consistent. Niko goes from complaining about killing one minute to mowing down everyone in his path the next. GTA IV's ludonarrative dissonance is one of the most common complaints about the game.

niko never complained about killing.

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ChiroVette
29 minutes ago, GR7 said:

I get that Niko potentially lost out on a decent healthy relationship but the fact you can go on love meet and start hot coffeeing straight after the credits roll kind of takes any weight from that lol. Having no access to dating while Niko took time to grieve and move on could have been nice little touch they could have added to put the player in Niko's headspace more.

Honestly, as much as I hate IV, this isn't a real complaint. Hot coffee and literally any side missions and weird quests sort of occur independant of the story, at least those dalliances that occur not in any particular story order. I mean, CJ had the same thing going in San Andreas. He would kill a bunch of guys, rend his garments lamenting Sweet's situation, and then go have sex with the closest girlfriend in whatever port he was in at the time. Stuff like this is more kind of idiosyncratic to GTA as a series. I think what you mean to say, though, is that the so called "weight" of GTA IV is nothing more than contrived, sappy, emotional, videogame-fare. It reeks to high heaven of some ham-fisted, transparent attempt to tug at the heartstrings of the player. Its a production steeped to the brim with developer self-importance and a willingness to spew out emotional hackery hoping players are too stupid to notice that the writing is nothing more than videogame fodder, like all the GTA games. Nothing bad about standard videogame stories, by the way. Objectively, V is no better in its similarly clumsy and often bumbling attempts at being a real live action movie in a game!

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Cheatz/Trickz
Just now, GR7 said:

You win endurance-wise...I honestly don't have the patience to keep going that's all. I've been down that road where I'm sending dissertations back and fourth with someone else on this same forum, these days I know when someone's hard headed enough to just bow out gracefully and make them feel like "They've won"

 

 

If you failed on endurance it’s because you have nothing left to give. You can say you cannot be bothered typing up a reply, it’s because you know that reply isn’t adequate. If you had a reply worth saying, you’d say it, no ifs or buts. It’s been fun.

12 minutes ago, ChiroVette said:

Its really so good to see you wholeheartedly embrace the concept of civil discourse in such a positive, uplifting way. Nothing at all gutter-sniping, condescending, or disparaging in your truly inspirational affectation of unconditional, positive regard.


Still rolling with that pseudo intellectual act I see

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