Why Do So Many People Hate CJ?

[Lordani66]

To answer the main question, here's my post from another thread (What is your least favorite character in San Andreas?)

 

Easily - CJ. "He still a busta to me". Total nice personold and character-less person:

 

- runs away like a little biatch when his brother gets killed, have we ever had such a pussy character?

- comes back and kinda tries to repair what he's done, BUT:

- can't decide what he is: a gangbanger? anti drug guy? a thief and a burglar? street racer? cars collector and garage owner? government's biatch? aeroplane pilot? conspiracy theorist freak? casino owner and a triad? casino robber?

- as stated above - he can't make up his mind and thus we got the craziest, least realistic, pretty dumb storyline EVER in a GTA game, it just doesn't care that it makes zero sense

- also he can not make up his mind about his character traits, it's a rollercoaster of emotions by this dude, like a teenage gerl on her period

- even though he tries to repair GS after his comeback, he totally forgets about it when he makes it in the "real world" (although till this point he is everyone's ***ch in this "real world" lol)

- can't stand his voice and looks, seriously,

- many characters have been a lot of people's bitches, but he takes the cake I think - C.R.A.S.H., Ryder (and at first almost whole grove street gives him sh**), Catalina, Salvatore Leone, Mike Toreno, T-Bone Mendez.

 

Overall my favourite to most hated characters list is probably like this:

 

Love:

Niko Bellic

Tommy Vercetti

 

Like:

Franklin Clinton / Michael DeSanta

 

Okay/Mixed feelings:

Trevor Phillips

Toni Cipriani

Luis Lopez

 

Don't like/Not well build:

Vic Vance

Johnny Klebitz

Claude

 

Greatly dislike:

CJ

Edited July 26, 2016 by Lordani66

[Osho]

Never understood why would anyone hate CJ? He's such a nice character that I find impossible to hate him.

Based on what I've seen and read over the years there're a lot of people, esp. after the first reveal of SA when they found out a "black" character as the main protagonist, and post release they used to offer reasons for hating on CJ like they can't relate with a "black" character and didn't want to play a black gangster, a street thug and several such stupid racist remarks targeting CJs background. I didn't know whether or not I should laugh at these idiots because many people were literally bashing CJ ( and Rockstar's choice ) across the boards on the internet. It was such a hot debate in those early days after the reveal even before SAs release.

So yeah, the fact that CJ was a black character definitely topped the list for many during those times. I don't know how much of that line of thinking has changed, but I don't come across that many racists today, except one member ( whom I don't want to name ) a couple of weeks back during a discussion. I think many players were quite young during that time and maybe that's why they didn't realise just how bad and wrong it is.

 

Secondly, the inclusion of jetpack, taking over territories, character customization, RPG aspects ( like eating, gyming, etc ) and couldn't even handle the challenging gameplay turned many people off and the ensuing frustration leads to blaming CJ as usual for everything they find wrong in SA. I find these reasons absolutely idiotic that really make no sense since the story does a damn good job in explaining the reasons behind their inclusion. Gym, territory acquisition, tattos and customization, rpg aspects like eating and such are not included just for the sake of it but helps a lot to immerse the players into the 90s urban gang culture but looks like all these features ( as explained in detail as well by Dan Houser in the interview before buying the game ) went completely over many people's head and are hating CJ for such stupid reasons.

Lastly, the story. God, I can't recall how many times I have discussed with people about each and every thing related to the plot and characters trying to put sense into those who start bashing CJ without even paying attention to the in game explanation and reasons behind certain events of the storyline. I still find people who just regurgitating the same doubts and problems over and over despite all the explanation available in game. Either they don't care to understand or the story is too complex and difficult to comprehend. There're definitely story related genuine flaws but the kind of problems/issues CJ haters ( see: list above as posted by Lordani66 ) come up regarding the story and his character are so stupid that any one with half a brain would understand the reasons for the same and easily realise that these are not really weakness or a flaw. Not everything in the narrative can be done effectively in the form cutscenes back then and the narrative development was quite simple without minute long lengthy movie-like cutscenes as seen in IV and V. The players were required to interpret them wisely. If one really immerse themselves into SA's story, and replay multiple times then its really easy to understand everything about the story. I liked how SA had few cutscenes with a straightforward narrative and still quite engrossing, thoughtful with fantastic dialogues without feeling any spoken line or scenario like a waste. It was tightly narrated with a much better pace of the plot wothout showing off too many lengthy cutscenes and pointless dialogues/characters as seen in IV.

[B Dawg]

CJ was okay but nothing special. Could have benefited from a better voice and attitude.

[Guest Guest176525326]

CJ is cool imo, but the likes of Trevor and Niko piss all over him.

[Lordani66]

Dude, I'm not upset with your post nor presenting any counter-argument to you, simply answering the topic in question. Do you have a problem with the right to share my opinion?

you don't let other people hate CJ.

In fact, Its you who's looking for a fight by making such false allegations and provoke me. Sorry dude, not interested.

You just can't fadom the fact that a lot of people have genuine issues with his character, and your fanboyism can not cope with that.

What are you on about? You can hate/complain/criticise CJ or SA as much as you want. I really don't care. If I had any issues with your response then I would have already countered to your same post in another thread.

 

 

I would accept what you are trying to say here, but the fact that this wasn't your first pro-CJ post in THIS THREAD ALONE (not to mention all those gazilion other topics) makes me believe that this is another damage control post.

 

"You can hate/complain/criticise CJ or SA as much as you want. I really don't care."

 

But you had to make another post in this thread to prove how cool CJ is? This doesn't look like "I don't care". Especially with you calling out me by name (and specifically me). Again - damage control by you, just because I never said anything about people who like him and mentioned that in my previous post. Also you said:

 

"In fact, Its you who's looking for a fight by making such false allegations and provoke me."

 

Oh really? Then how come you are the first one to call someone (me) out by nickname in your post? I didn't mention ANYONE in my initial post here in this topic, just gave my opinion, then you said I don't even have a half brain and I use "stupid arguments":

 

"CJ haters ( see: list above as posted by Lordani66 ) come up regarding the story and his character are so stupid that any one with half a brain would understand the reasons for the same and easily realise that these are not really weakness or a flaw."

[Osho]

Dude, I wasn't trying to make a pro-CJ post nor interested in any damage control. I was simply sharing my views ( basically, disagreement ) on the reasons I listed for people hating CJ. Also, I was very clear when I mentioned - ( see: list above as posted by Lordani66 ) - meaning its "the list" that I was referring to serve as an "example" of the kind of problems/issues I was adressing in my post, not trying to target you, specifically. If you feel offended then I apologise for the same.

[Algonquin Assassin]

To answer the main question, here's my post from another thread (What is your least favorite character in San Andreas?)

 

Easily - CJ. "He still a busta to me". Total nice personold and character-less person:

 

- runs away like a little biatch when his brother gets killed, have we ever had such a pussy character?

- comes back and kinda tries to repair what he's done, BUT:

- can't decide what he is: a gangbanger? anti drug guy? a thief and a burglar? street racer? cars collector and garage owner? government's biatch? aeroplane pilot? conspiracy theorist freak? casino owner and a triad? casino robber?

- as stated above - he can't make up his mind and thus we got the craziest, least realistic, pretty dumb storyline EVER in a GTA game, it just doesn't care that it makes zero sense

- also he can not make up his mind about his character traits, it's a rollercoaster of emotions by this dude, like a teenage gerl on her period

- even though he tries to repair GS after his comeback, he totally forgets about it when he makes it in the "real world" (although till this point he is everyone's ***ch in this "real world" lol)

- can't stand his voice and looks, seriously,

- many characters have been a lot of people's bitches, but he takes the cake I think - C.R.A.S.H., Ryder (and at first almost whole grove street gives him sh**), Catalina, Salvatore Leone, Mike Toreno, T-Bone Mendez.

 

Overall my favourite to most hated characters list is probably like this:

 

Love:

Niko Bellic

Tommy Vercetti

 

Like:

Franklin Clinton / Michael DeSanta

 

Okay/Mixed feelings:

Trevor Phillips

Toni Cipriani

Luis Lopez

 

Don't like/Not well build:

Vic Vance

Johnny Klebitz

Claude

 

Greatly dislike:

CJ

Well said. I would've prefered Sweet or Cesar as the protagonist. CJ failed to me when I realised he abandoned all of his friends and family for half a decade. What an awesome and loyal guy. Not.

 

The guy crapped himself when Big Smoke held up a baseball bat to him and cowered behind a framed photo desperately pleading to him to chill lol. I knew from that moment he was just going to be a bitch to everyone.

[Lordani66]

Well said. I would've prefered Sweet or Ceasar as the protagonist. CJ failed to me when I realised he abandoned all of his friends and family for half a decade. What an awesome and loyal guy. Not.

 

The guy crapped himself when Big Smoke held up a baseball bat to him and cowered behind a framed photo desperately pleading to him to chill lol. I knew from that moment he was just going to be a bitch to everyone.

 

Wow, when you put it that way I'm starting to hate him even more. Then add to this all the other moments that he was crying and squeeling like a little hoe, one with Catalina, one with Toreno and at least one with Tenpenny (when he was kidnapped to the woods), probably some more but I haven't played this game in 2 years so I don't recall. Damn, this dude is a real pussy, and I'm not talking about animals here.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Lordani66

[Henry Hernandez]

 

To answer the main question, here's my post from another thread (What is your least favorite character in San Andreas?)

 

Easily - CJ. "He still a busta to me". Total nice personold and character-less person:

 

- runs away like a little biatch when his brother gets killed, have we ever had such a pussy character?

- comes back and kinda tries to repair what he's done, BUT:

- can't decide what he is: a gangbanger? anti drug guy? a thief and a burglar? street racer? cars collector and garage owner? government's biatch? aeroplane pilot? conspiracy theorist freak? casino owner and a triad? casino robber?

- as stated above - he can't make up his mind and thus we got the craziest, least realistic, pretty dumb storyline EVER in a GTA game, it just doesn't care that it makes zero sense

- also he can not make up his mind about his character traits, it's a rollercoaster of emotions by this dude, like a teenage gerl on her period

- even though he tries to repair GS after his comeback, he totally forgets about it when he makes it in the "real world" (although till this point he is everyone's ***ch in this "real world" lol)

- can't stand his voice and looks, seriously,

- many characters have been a lot of people's bitches, but he takes the cake I think - C.R.A.S.H., Ryder (and at first almost whole grove street gives him sh**), Catalina, Salvatore Leone, Mike Toreno, T-Bone Mendez.

 

Overall my favourite to most hated characters list is probably like this:

 

Love:

Niko Bellic

Tommy Vercetti

 

Like:

Franklin Clinton / Michael DeSanta

 

Okay/Mixed feelings:

Trevor Phillips

Toni Cipriani

Luis Lopez

 

Don't like/Not well build:

Vic Vance

Johnny Klebitz

Claude

 

Greatly dislike:

CJ

Well said. I would've prefered Sweet or Cesar as the protagonist. CJ failed to me when I realised he abandoned all of his friends and family for half a decade. What an awesome and loyal guy. Not.

 

The guy crapped himself when Big Smoke held up a baseball bat to him and cowered behind a framed photo desperately pleading to him to chill lol. I knew from that moment he was just going to be a bitch to everyone.

 

Well Smoke was CJ's friend, and CJ was trying to let him know that it's his homie he was about to whack. So we can let that one slide.

 

As for Catalina holding him at gunpoint, I see that as CJ feigning fear just to calm the crazy bitch down. I mean he would've attacked that crazy bitch if he wanted to. But he felt that it would be much wiser to talk himself out of it since counter violence will not only ruin his chance of getting more money from her, it would alienate Cesar since the crazy bitch is his cousin.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Henry Hernandez

[lil weasel]

I dislike HUGE Quotes, and quote Trains. Also Keep personalities of members out of it.

The discussion should be on topic of Carl.

[Rocket man FI]

It is completely lie,I think,Everyone like Cj,Right,they hate trevor

[Vanzant]

Polls aren't created to dispute and attack others opinions. Which is exactly what leads to polls getting the lock.

 

Going forward lets stick to just the topic without having to explain his / her opinion to anyone....

[Vanzant]

Either I forgot to lock it or there's shannaigans afoot....

 

Either way, I am going to leave this open.

 

Last Reminder

 

Let's keep the discussion civil from now on after this is posted. If I see anymore flaming or spam about posts made two days ago I'm going to deliver a swift kick to the butt that will take 72 hours to recover from if you get muh drift.

 

So please be nice and keep it real.

 

I appreciate your cooperation.

[Uncle Vlad]

CJ was okay but nothing special. Could have benefited from a better voice and attitude.

 

This. I don´t hate CJ, he was okay. But nothing more.

 

I like the idea of playing as a black gang member, but I´d prefer playing as Sweet. That would make SA even better for me.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Uncle Vlad

[B Dawg]

 

CJ was okay but nothing special. Could have benefited from a better voice and attitude.

 

This. I don´t hate CJ, he was okay. But nothing more.

 

I like the idea of playing as a black gang member, but I´d prefer playing as Sweet. That would make SA even better for me.

Nah, Sweet was a buster too.

Playing as Ryder would have been nice Betraying foolish old friends, rising through the ladder, becoming a king pin like Smoke.

''Can't knock a homie's hustle'' - Big Smoke

Edited July 29, 2016 by B Dawg

[DERGaming]

So far no one I know hates CJ he is a great character and if anyone else tells you otherwise they just hate it becuase they didn't like SA

[The Dedito Gae]

I don't hate him but i don't like him either, he grew on me. A lot of people give him sh*t because he's a bitch at certain times and because apparently he whines a lot.

 

Honestly, i kinda like him because he's not an indestructible badass (at times) and can puss out (at times), he's pretty funny and unexperienced because he's young. Even if he whined, at least he has a reason ton unlike Michael or Trevor.

However, i don't like him because he goes from vulnerable to badass nilly willy, he's either freaking out because Toreno is alive or giving a Sindacco a heart attack with an act of presence.

 

So yeah, he's not a really a consistent character, i would say CJ is ok until he leaves LS, the rest of the game he's just a sock puppet for the stretched story.

[Vanzant]

I think CJ is awesome. I also think this thread can breathe for a while. WEIRD!

[Journey_95]

Never understood why would anyone hate CJ? He's such a nice character that I find impossible to hate him.

Based on what I've seen and read over the years there're a lot of people, esp. after the first reveal of SA when they found out a "black" character as the main protagonist, and post release they used to offer reasons for hating on CJ like they can't relate with a "black" character and didn't want to play a black gangster, a street thug and several such stupid racist remarks targeting CJs background. I didn't know whether or not I should laugh at these idiots because many people were literally bashing CJ ( and Rockstar's choice ) across the boards on the internet. It was such a hot debate in those early days after the reveal even before SAs release.

So yeah, the fact that CJ was a black character definitely topped the list for many during those times. I don't know how much of that line of thinking has changed, but I don't come across that many racists today, except one member ( whom I don't want to name ) a couple of weeks back during a discussion. I think many players were quite young during that time and maybe that's why they didn't realise just how bad and wrong it is.

 

Secondly, the inclusion of jetpack, taking over territories, character customization, RPG aspects ( like eating, gyming, etc ) and couldn't even handle the challenging gameplay turned many people off and the ensuing frustration leads to blaming CJ as usual for everything they find wrong in SA. I find these reasons absolutely idiotic that really make no sense since the story does a damn good job in explaining the reasons behind their inclusion. Gym, territory acquisition, tattos and customization, rpg aspects like eating and such are not included just for the sake of it but helps a lot to immerse the players into the 90s urban gang culture but looks like all these features ( as explained in detail as well by Dan Houser in the interview before buying the game ) went completely over many people's head and are hating CJ for such stupid reasons.

Lastly, the story. God, I can't recall how many times I have discussed with people about each and every thing related to the plot and characters trying to put sense into those who start bashing CJ without even paying attention to the in game explanation and reasons behind certain events of the storyline. I still find people who just regurgitating the same doubts and problems over and over despite all the explanation available in game. Either they don't care to understand or the story is too complex and difficult to comprehend. There're definitely story related genuine flaws but the kind of problems/issues CJ haters ( see: list above as posted by Lordani66 ) come up regarding the story and his character are so stupid that any one with half a brain would understand the reasons for the same and easily realise that these are not really weakness or a flaw. Not everything in the narrative can be done effectively in the form cutscenes back then and the narrative development was quite simple without minute long lengthy movie-like cutscenes as seen in IV and V. The players were required to interpret them wisely. If one really immerse themselves into SA's story, and replay multiple times then its really easy to understand everything about the story. I liked how SA had few cutscenes with a straightforward narrative and still quite engrossing, thoughtful with fantastic dialogues without feeling any spoken line or scenario like a waste. It was tightly narrated with a much better pace of the plot wothout showing off too many lengthy cutscenes and pointless dialogues/characters as seen in IV.

 

Yeah of course just because a character is somehow "nice" you can't hate him. Wtf has the gameplay to do with anything?

 

And yeah surely SA's trainwreck of a story & a paper thin character like CJ are just too complex & deep for people, that HAS to be the reason. Do you even listen to yourself? Of course already insulting others too for not sharting your opinion but then when people criticize you you play the victim card, lol.

 

OT: CJ is just too inconsistent for me. I like him overall in the LS missions (for the most part, in the OG loc missions he sucks) but then after that he just becomes annoying & stale. He also doesn't seem to have any opinions of his own, whatever people say he follows. Especially when its Sweet, the last section of LS made CJ even more pathetic.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Journey_95

[Algonquin Assassin]

 

Never understood why would anyone hate CJ? He's such a nice character that I find impossible to hate him.

Based on what I've seen and read over the years there're a lot of people, esp. after the first reveal of SA when they found out a "black" character as the main protagonist, and post release they used to offer reasons for hating on CJ like they can't relate with a "black" character and didn't want to play a black gangster, a street thug and several such stupid racist remarks targeting CJs background. I didn't know whether or not I should laugh at these idiots because many people were literally bashing CJ ( and Rockstar's choice ) across the boards on the internet. It was such a hot debate in those early days after the reveal even before SAs release.

So yeah, the fact that CJ was a black character definitely topped the list for many during those times. I don't know how much of that line of thinking has changed, but I don't come across that many racists today, except one member ( whom I don't want to name ) a couple of weeks back during a discussion. I think many players were quite young during that time and maybe that's why they didn't realise just how bad and wrong it is.

 

Secondly, the inclusion of jetpack, taking over territories, character customization, RPG aspects ( like eating, gyming, etc ) and couldn't even handle the challenging gameplay turned many people off and the ensuing frustration leads to blaming CJ as usual for everything they find wrong in SA. I find these reasons absolutely idiotic that really make no sense since the story does a damn good job in explaining the reasons behind their inclusion. Gym, territory acquisition, tattos and customization, rpg aspects like eating and such are not included just for the sake of it but helps a lot to immerse the players into the 90s urban gang culture but looks like all these features ( as explained in detail as well by Dan Houser in the interview before buying the game ) went completely over many people's head and are hating CJ for such stupid reasons.

Lastly, the story. God, I can't recall how many times I have discussed with people about each and every thing related to the plot and characters trying to put sense into those who start bashing CJ without even paying attention to the in game explanation and reasons behind certain events of the storyline. I still find people who just regurgitating the same doubts and problems over and over despite all the explanation available in game. Either they don't care to understand or the story is too complex and difficult to comprehend. There're definitely story related genuine flaws but the kind of problems/issues CJ haters ( see: list above as posted by Lordani66 ) come up regarding the story and his character are so stupid that any one with half a brain would understand the reasons for the same and easily realise that these are not really weakness or a flaw. Not everything in the narrative can be done effectively in the form cutscenes back then and the narrative development was quite simple without minute long lengthy movie-like cutscenes as seen in IV and V. The players were required to interpret them wisely. If one really immerse themselves into SA's story, and replay multiple times then its really easy to understand everything about the story. I liked how SA had few cutscenes with a straightforward narrative and still quite engrossing, thoughtful with fantastic dialogues without feeling any spoken line or scenario like a waste. It was tightly narrated with a much better pace of the plot wothout showing off too many lengthy cutscenes and pointless dialogues/characters as seen in IV.

 

Yeah of course just because a character is somehow "nice" you can't hate him. Wtf has the gameplay to do with anything?

 

And yeah surely SA's trainwreck of a story & a paper thin character like CJ are just too complex & deep for people, that HAS to be the reason. Do you even listen to yourself? Of course already insulting others too for not sharting your opinion but then when people criticize you you play the victim card, lol.

 

OT: CJ is just too inconsistent for me. I like him overall in the LS missions (for the most part, in the OG loc missions he sucks) but then after that he just becomes annoying & stale. He also doesn't seem to have any opinions of his own, whatever people say he follows. Especially when its Sweet, the last section of LS made CJ even more pathetic.

 

 

CJ's inconsistency probably has to do with the fact that at one time San Andreas was meant to feature multiple protagonists. So instead of one, well rounded character he's pretty much the "Jack of all trades" and does everything three or more protagonists would.

[Osho]

Of course already insulting others too for not sharing your opinion but then when people criticize you you play the victim card

The "Others" - only includes trolls, abusive, disruptive, and every "intolerant" kind that mere positive talk about SA/CJ can make them lose their minds. They maintain "I don't care" attitude despite all the explanation and counter arguments. I have countless examples of you insulting others for no reason. So, I don't regret at all for using strong words in criticizing people like you.

OT:

 

I still maintain that the hate for CJ, esp., using the story including the missions like Black Project and Green goo, that as reasoning behind it, avoid "listening" to what a few have interpreted interestingly without sounding implausible.

Here's an interesting take on The Black Project and SAs story, in short:

 

 

San Andreas' story was pretty serious bar some missions that bordered on the incredible (Green Goo, Black Project) which I didn't personally find too out of place as they were given to you by The Truth and The Truth was going on about so many whacked-out things, it seemed so unbelievable but then they turned out to be true. I actually liked that. Also, CJ was skeptical the whole time and wasn't in-the-know per se (just as a the player would have felt) so there was a mutual "what the f*ck is this guy on about" between you and the protag. However the rest of the story was more serious and interpersonal. It was about betrayal from your friends, blackmail from police and police corruption and finding revenge and finding your real family

 

Its the same problem with people having a "fixed view" about Trevor's scene with Johnny K despite all

the explanation and quick to dismiss the rationale behind it.

The haters are losing their credibility over those that disagree/agree giving proper justification or explanation.

If haters move away from making all sorts of conspiracy theories and start making sense using the in game lore and explanation to back their arguments then that'd be great!

 

E:typo.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Osho