Why Do So Many People Hate CJ?

[Big_Smiley]

I think he is by far the weakest part of SA, his character is just all over the place. If SA had multiple protags, maybe I would like him more.

 

But thankfully due to the great open world and really memorable side characters the game was still pretty good.

 

Still he isn't the worst GTA protag, hell no.

 

*Cough Luis *Cough *Cough Lopez

[Osho]

I think he is by far the weakest part of SA, his character is just all over the place.02

If there's any character that is just all over the place then it is Niko Bellic. He loses the focus from his main goal being used around by more and more characters and for what?

For the same 'if it pays' 'money' BS that Niko keeps repeating about majority of the story. It feels like Rockstar didn't have enough ideas and simply extended the story for filler content the moment after Roman's apartment and cab depot are burned down, and leave Broker, forgetting the part, "I came to this city to find. The man who betrayed out village" including Dimitri's betrayal for taking every mission thereon from every character who requests his services, wasting time over being the biggest errand bitch of the people for the majority portion of the game.

Sure, CJ wasn't consistent throughout and they were a few speed bumps here and there in the story, but it never felt so disjointed and incoherent as Niko.

E:typo

Edited February 28, 2016 by Osho

[Journey_95]

 

I think he is by far the weakest part of SA, his character is just all over the place. If SA had multiple protags, maybe I would like him more.

 

But thankfully due to the great open world and really memorable side characters the game was still pretty good.

 

Still he isn't the worst GTA protag, hell no.

*Cough Luis *Cough *Cough Lopez

 

Yep and Franklin was pretty lackluster too.

 

CJ would be somewhere in the middle for me. Niko, Tommy etc. at the top of course

[Journey_95]

 

I think he is by far the weakest part of SA, his character is just all over the place.02

If there's any character that is just all over the place then it is Niko Bellic. He loses the focus from his main goal being used around by more and more characters and for what?

For the same 'if it pays' 'money' BS that Niko keeps repeating about majority of the story. It feels like Rockstar didn't have enough ideas and simply extended the story for filler content the moment after Roman's apartment and cab depot are burned down, and leave Broker, forgetting the part, "I came to this city to find. The man who betrayed out village" including Dimitri's betrayal for taking every mission thereon from every character who requests his services, wasting time over being the biggest errand bitch of the people for the majority portion of the game.

Sure, CJ wasn't consistent throughout and they were a few speed bumps here and there in the story, but it never felt so disjointed and incoherent as Niko.

E:typo

 

He isn't incoherent at all, you just dislike him, you are clearly confusing these two things. He works his way up to find Darko and also of course does the jobs for the money.

 

What more motivation do you need? He is a hired gun, nothing more. More like Claude from GTA 3 than Tommy and CJ. And he kept mentioning Darko and Florian throughout the game. Its not like that was forgotten but he had to work his way up. Its not like f*cking Playboy X would be able to find any of them.

 

CJ was a bitch throughout the game, especially in the Catalina and Crash missions. Not to mention the silly green goo and jetpack missions lol.

He just did f*cked with the Army because of some crazy old dude, thats a whole other level of stupid.

 

He forgot about Sweet and Big Smoke for the majority of the storyline too. Suddenly infiltrating a Syndicate and the whole garage business in San Fierro then the whole Casino and Mob sh*t etc. even though it didn't fit at all and Rockstar had him do everything just because the whole multiple protags thing didn't work back then.

 

I'm sure poor Sweet profited from that lol while he was in prison. CJ didn't even care about Grove Street at all.

 

But hey I'm sure you will have some excuse ready for this. This isn't even a thread about Niko...but you sure do have an obsession with mentioning him everywhere.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Journey_95

[Osho]

He isn't incoherent at all, you just dislike him, you are clearly confusing these two things

You are clearly confused in thinking that Niko isn't incoherent at all, nor you seem to realise whatever you are talking about in justifying Niko for doing all kinds of boring errands pretty much makes Niko no different than CJ, and as such you pretty much failed to offer any sort of meaningful explanation for why Niko should be an exception for being an inconsistent character throughout?

Besides, CJ was pretty much consistent what Dan Houser had cteated his character with the story in mind some the portions are over the top, but there's nothing wrong in it, since SA story wasn't meant to be taken seriously. Dan Houser himself has explained it here.

So, I don't know why you have this obsession of being so critical about the jetpacks and the over the top feel with the same old bullsh*t despite the game and Dan Houser's makes it clear about the theme and the type of game they were making which was clearly poles apart than the boring IV?

Your rest of the argument is just the same old broken record, as you failed to establish any argument for Niko's motivation, since for a major part of the game Niko keeps doing favours for money despite the money has not much use, nor important after making up enough at one point in the story, unlike CJ.

[Andromeda-J]

what is this topic about all in all, Niko being bad or CJ sucking at consistency?

At the moment i see people here being inconsistent about topic discussion!

Edited February 28, 2016 by Jaanus949

[SAVILLAIN]

the hate comes from him being in...

 

THE GREATEST GAME OF ALL TIME

[Journey_95]

what is this topic about all in all, Niko being bad or CJ sucking at consistency?

At the moment i see people here being inconsistent about topic discussion!

@Osho just likes to bring up Niko and GTA IV in every freaking discussion for whatever reason (even in the "What makes a good GTA game to you? thread lol), just responded to his post.

[Journey_95]

 

He isn't incoherent at all, you just dislike him, you are clearly confusing these two things

You are clearly confused in thinking that Niko isn't incoherent at all, nor you seem to realise whatever you are talking about in justifying Niko for doing all kinds of boring errands pretty much makes Niko no different than CJ, and as such you pretty much failed to offer any sort of meaningful explanation for why Niko should be an exception for being an inconsistent character throughout?

Besides, CJ was pretty much consistent what Dan Houser had cteated his character with the story in mind some the portions are over the top, but there's nothing wrong in it, since SA story wasn't meant to be taken seriously. Dan Houser himself has explained it here.

So, I don't know why you have this obsession of being so critical about the jetpacks and the over the top feel with the same old bullsh*t despite the game and Dan Houser's makes it clear about the theme and the type of game they were making which was clearly poles apart than the boring IV?

Your rest of the argument is just the same old broken record, as you failed to establish any argument for Niko's motivation, since for a major part of the game Niko keeps doing favours for money despite the money has not much use, nor important after making up enough at one point in the story, unlike CJ.

Its not just Niko and CJ, its every GTA protag. They all do errands, you are the one with the double standards again since you bitch about Niko doing it and not CJ.

 

The jetpack and green goo still doesn't make any sense. SA's story wasn't very serious but still fairly "normal" until the desert and silly Truth missions there.

 

I have repeated Niko's motivation over and over again but its obvious you are biased.

 

Seriously you are on the same level as Chiro and Sonny and hell even worse since you even bring up IV in every other section of the forum. Be it the Series Chat or even here. Its pretty crazy.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Journey_95

[Osho]

Its not just Niko and CJ, its every GTA protag. They all do errands, you are the one with the double standards again since you bitch about Niko doing it and not CJ.

No. You are the one that is making double standards. Stop pointing fingers at others every time. I never said CJ was perfect. You are getting really incoherent with every post.

Seriously you are on the same level as Chiro and Sonny and hell even worse since you even bring up IV in every other section of the forum. Be it the Series Chat or even here. Its pretty crazy.

What the hell are you talking?

This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

[lil weasel]

Please, this is a game. With many inane, and improbable things to do.

The Publishers put together a set of controller/keyboard manipulations to keep the Player busy trying to overcome their clumsyness.

What Name they apply to the spirite that the player controls is hardly anything for a contention.

Story should be the most basic to get the player going, it need not be an elaborate novel with every item explained in detail. In fact the less known about "backgrounds" the better, allowing the player to assign what his/her own mind wants to, to liven up his/her Play.

 

I am sure there are many Haters for various reasons, but all are silly as the the character is a Fiction with no more life to it than Sherlock Holmes, Daisy Mae Scragg , or Andy Capp. All of whom have their detractors.

Edited February 28, 2016 by lil weasel

[Journey_95]

 

Its not just Niko and CJ, its every GTA protag. They all do errands, you are the one with the double standards again since you bitch about Niko doing it and not CJ.

No. You are the one that is making double standards. Stop pointing fingers at others every time. I never said CJ was perfect. You are getting really incoherent with every post.

Seriously you are on the same level as Chiro and Sonny and hell even worse since you even bring up IV in every other section of the forum. Be it the Series Chat or even here. Its pretty crazy.

What the hell are you talking?

This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

 

I never said Niko was perfect either. I just said that he was consistent for the majority of the game. Looks like someone forgot our discussions in the IV section where I (and many other users too) explained Niko's character, his motivations etc. And here you are again playing the clueless guy lol.

 

Anyway I'm not the one derailing the thread and bringing GTA IV once AGAIN into a discussion. You just got butthurt because I said I wasn't a fan of CJ in my post and just had to mention Niko again.

 

CJ isn't even that bad, some of the other protags (like Niko, Tommy, Johnny) are just stronger.

[Cr!minal]

Personally I like game as a whole, but I couldn't identify myself with that whole gangsta culture and mentality.
That is why I don't regard CJ as very outstanding protagonist. If you can look past that then rest of the game is excellent.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Cr!minal

[gtafaninwest]

 

Because CJ is superior as the most fun and enjoyable character in the series, and people still admire him in 2016, making most haters envy about this fact, because GTA SA is still considered a great game, and would probably continue to haunt the critics for years to come as well.

They just don't know any way to tackle the sheer popularity CJ has, poor haters.

Yeah I kinda agree with this.

 

A lot of people just can't handle the the fact that it's still considered by many GTA fans as the best in the series after so many years. I also believe there is an element of racial bias in it as well, but to what extent, I can't say. I just know it really bothers a lot of haters that SA was so successful and popular, and that the protagonist was black too.

 

There is a white supremacist element in the GTA fanbase.

[Journey_95]

 

 

Because CJ is superior as the most fun and enjoyable character in the series, and people still admire him in 2016, making most haters envy about this fact, because GTA SA is still considered a great game, and would probably continue to haunt the critics for years to come as well.

They just don't know any way to tackle the sheer popularity CJ has, poor haters.

Yeah I kinda agree with this.

 

A lot of people just can't handle the the fact that it's still considered by many GTA fans as the best in the series after so many years. I also believe there is an element of racial bias in it as well, but to what extent, I can't say. I just know it really bothers a lot of haters that SA was so successful and popular, and that the protagonist was black too.

 

There is a white supremacist element in the GTA fanbase.

 

There are probably some who think like that but certainy just a small minority. Most who dislike CJ just do it because he is a rather weak character imho just like with Franklin (Rockstar should start writing better black protags lol).

[Lay]

Its difficult for people to identify with a black character. I reckon that's the reason for 50% of the hate. I remember when it came out, there was a lot of racism when people found out the Protag was black. Even friends of mine (at the time) were saying it sucks they have to play with a black character.

 

Yet, on the flipside, CJ is probably the most popular protag and the one most people would love to have back. Me especially. (obviously i know it isn't likely..different universes and all)

[Journey_95]

Its difficult for people to identify with a black character. I reckon that's the reason for 50% of the hate. I remember when it came out, there was a lot of racism when people found out the Protag was black. Even friends of mine (at the time) were saying it sucks they have to play with a black character.

 

Yet, on the flipside, CJ is probably the most popular protag and the one most people would love to have back. Me especially. (obviously i know it isn't likely..different universes and all)

Wut? How is that difficult? Maybe for some silly racists but thats it.

 

Its probably the reason for 10% of the hate if not less, you people are exaggerating. And you should hang out with better people if they seriously meant what they said. lol

 

I personally don't care either way. CJ was still better than Franklin, Luis, Victor, Toni and Claude for me but overall could have been much better imho. In general Rockstar should write better black protags.

 

Franklin is easily the least liked protag from V and its not because he is black, its because he just sucks ass

Edited March 3, 2016 by Journey_95

[Badman_]

They hate CJ because they always try compare him with the HD era. He's not such a well-written character like Niko, Johnny or Michael, but let's remember that back in the early 2000s the GTA protagonists were just crazy psycopaths. CJ was a great improvement.

 

Edit: I know there are other reasons for the CJ hating, but I think this is the main one.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Lamarz

[Lay]

 

Its difficult for people to identify with a black character. I reckon that's the reason for 50% of the hate. I remember when it came out, there was a lot of racism when people found out the Protag was black. Even friends of mine (at the time) were saying it sucks they have to play with a black character.

 

Yet, on the flipside, CJ is probably the most popular protag and the one most people would love to have back. Me especially. (obviously i know it isn't likely..different universes and all)

Wut? How is that difficult? Maybe for some silly racists but thats it.

 

Its probably the reason for 10% of the hate if not less, you people are exaggerating. And you should hang out with better people if they seriously meant what they said. lol

 

I personally don't care either way. CJ was still better than Franklin, Luis, Victor, Toni and Claude for me but overall could have been much better imho. In general Rockstar should write better black protags.

 

Franklin is easily the least liked protag from V and its not because he is black, its because he just sucks ass

 

 

Yes that was who I was referring to.

 

I said 'at the time' as that was years ago when I was at school still. I don't know them anymore.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Lay

[Algonquin Assassin]

They hate CJ because they always try compare him with the HD era. He's not such a well-written character like Niko, Johnny or Michael, but let's remember that back in the early 2000s the GTA protagonists were just crazy psycopaths. CJ was a great improvement.

 

Edit: I know there are other reasons for the CJ hating, but I think this is the main one.

Personally I was never a big fan of CJ even before the HD era started.

 

Tommy's always been the man of the 3D era to me atleast.

[Rhoda]

CJ has always been such a strange character to me because his progression and lifestyle change was so quick - it had to be, to serve the story. Depending on how quickly you played the storyline, he went from a street thug with no respect to a roaring success with shares in a casino and managing Madd Dogg. His resumé is also impressive; truck driving, import/export business, quarryman, pilot, chauffeur, valet (albeit illegitimately), law enforcer, paramedic, taxi driver, courier, the list goes on. While I understand this is necessary if you want to offer a player a varied and fun experience, I can understand how it can turn many off. This is without considering his personality, though I think all this would look even more out of place listed under a character like Tommy Vercetti.

 

I have no real complaints with CJ, though his job history around San Andreas does make me raise an eyebrow if I'm going to be cynical about the whole thing. I like how naïve he is sometimes, and he's loyal almost to a fault (when it suits him). I don't even have an issue with the voice acting, though that's probably because I've long since finished the storyline and I rarely hear anybody talk anymore.

[Official General]

Its difficult for people to identify with a black character. I reckon that's the reason for 50% of the hate. I remember when it came out, there was a lot of racism when people found out the Protag was black. Even friends of mine (at the time) were saying it sucks they have to play with a black character.

 

Yet, on the flipside, CJ is probably the most popular protag and the one most people would love to have back. Me especially. (obviously i know it isn't likely..different universes and all)

Yeah it's so ironic that CJ was frowned upon for being black when SA was first announced, yet now it's regarded as arguably as the most popular and best GTA in the entire series to this day. People are still in awe of it 11 years on. Crazy world it can be man. Edited March 4, 2016 by Official General

[Big_Smiley]

 

Its difficult for people to identify with a black character. I reckon that's the reason for 50% of the hate. I remember when it came out, there was a lot of racism when people found out the Protag was black. Even friends of mine (at the time) were saying it sucks they have to play with a black character.

 

Yet, on the flipside, CJ is probably the most popular protag and the one most people would love to have back. Me especially. (obviously i know it isn't likely..different universes and all)

Yeah it's so ironic that CJ was frowned upon for being black when SA was first announced, yet now it's regarded as arguably as the most popular and best GTA in the entire series to this day. People are still in awe of it 11 years on. Crazy world it can be man. Yeah i know people still say CJ is best even after all these years since it's release way back in 2004. But to be honest his fat qoutes never get old to me. He defineitly was a unique portagaonist.

[Journey_95]

 

They hate CJ because they always try compare him with the HD era. He's not such a well-written character like Niko, Johnny or Michael, but let's remember that back in the early 2000s the GTA protagonists were just crazy psycopaths. CJ was a great improvement.

 

Edit: I know there are other reasons for the CJ hating, but I think this is the main one.

Personally I was never a big fan of CJ even before the HD era started.

 

Tommy's always been the man of the 3D era to me atleast.

 

Definitely, Tommy is better than CJ in every way but CJ is still the second best 3D Era protag. Claude and Toni just suck and Victor is boring

 

Hell CJ is even better than some of the HD Era protags like Luis and Franklin if you ask me.

[Official General]

 

 

They hate CJ because they always try compare him with the HD era. He's not such a well-written character like Niko, Johnny or Michael, but let's remember that back in the early 2000s the GTA protagonists were just crazy psycopaths. CJ was a great improvement.

 

Edit: I know there are other reasons for the CJ hating, but I think this is the main one.

 

Personally I was never a big fan of CJ even before the HD era started.

Tommy's always been the man of the 3D era to me atleast.

 

Definitely, Tommy is better than CJ in every way but CJ is still the second best 3D Era protag. Claude and Toni just suck and Victor is boring

 

Hell CJ is even better than some of the HD Era protags like Luis and Franklin if you ask me.

 

Very much agree, exactly my view.

 

Tommy is my favourite GTA protagonist, but CJ comes in second, closely followed by Niko.

[Badman_]

Well I'm not a big fan of Claude and Tommy. I think they are too much basic/simple characters, I can't actually care about them.

[Journey_95]

Well I'm not a big fan of Claude and Tommy. I think they are too much basic/simple characters, I can't actually care about them.

Well Claude was basically a blank slate with no voice so I agree about him. I played GTA 3 after VC so I was never a big fan of that game anyway.

 

Tommy was great though. Yeah he may be simple but Ray Liotta did a great job at voicing him and he was charismatic + just a badass. I'm all for more human protags but I like that we have at least one who just is just cool. Dude basically takes over the city by himself.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Journey_95

[Son of Zeus]

Well I'm not a big fan of Claude and Tommy. I think they are too much basic/simple characters, I can't actually care about them.

I agree. All protags have more depth than Tommy except Claude, Trevor, Franklin and maybe Toni(been a long time since I played LCS, don't remember much). As a result he's pretty much one-dimensional and overrated because of Ray Liotta's voice.

[Journey_95]

 

Well I'm not a big fan of Claude and Tommy. I think they are too much basic/simple characters, I can't actually care about them.

I agree. All protags have more depth than Tommy except Claude, Trevor, Franklin and maybe Toni(been a long time since I played LCS, don't remember much). As a result he's pretty much one-dimensional and overrated because of Ray Liotta's voice.

 

He may be simple but I don't think thats a bad thing. For a game like VC, Tommy was the perfect protagonist imho.

 

A ruthless badass who takes over the city on his own.

 

And you have to remember the time VC was released. Before that we just had Claude who was just a blank slate, then with Tommy we actually got someone with a cool voice and character.

 

With CJ they tried to go the more human route but it was hit and miss. He seemed very inconsistent at times. Probably because of the whole scrapped multiple protagonists plan.

[Official General]

 

Well I'm not a big fan of Claude and Tommy. I think they are too much basic/simple characters, I can't actually care about them.

I agree. All protags have more depth than Tommy except Claude, Trevor, Franklin and maybe Toni(been a long time since I played LCS, don't remember much). As a result he's pretty much one-dimensional and overrated because of Ray Liotta's voice.I'm with Journey95 on his view on this.

 

I still remember with great delight that cutscene in Ken's office, when Tommy gets asked by Ken in himself the beginning of the game about what they will do next now they've been robbed of their money and drugs in the drug deal that went wrong the night before. Tommy simply replies, "First, we are gonna find out who took our money and our cocaine", next, Ken anxiously questions him with, "And then what ?", in which Tommy calmly replies to him in a most chilling, ice-cold manner by saying, "And then....we'll kill them". From the first moment I saw that, I knew this guy was gonna stay etched forever in my head and that playing this game was gonna go down as one of my greatest ever gaming memories.

 

Tommy's identity and character was brilliantly created for its time, it didn't need any real depth for it to be highly enjoyable and entertaining to play. Yes, it was a very simple character design, but at the same time it was very effective in what it set out to do. A new guy in town in the form of a fearless Mafioso with a murderous instinct, cunning, ruthlessness, with a burning desire for revenge and high ambitions. He successfully and spectacularly takes over Vice City's underworld to create a vast, wealthy criminal empire and becomes city's top mob boss. The story too was simple, but it was very interesting and highly entertaining with stunning action-packed sequences nicely paced alongside the plot. The way everything perfectly fell in place together in the game just left me in awe of Tommy, the man himself, his story and the lasting effect of euphoria it had on me while playing VC. He's the kind of guy I had dreamed about playing as in a video game.

 

CJ was a very good character too, and even though he had more depth and more facets to his character than Tommy's one-dimensional ruthless gangster persona, he was a little all over the place and a very indecisive guy which kinda put me off a little. I didn't like the fact that he was quick to show his very vulnerable side in certain situations like with Catalina and one of the Tenpenny meetings. But to be fair, not everyone can be the same, and I still like CJ's character despite all this, because he still showed a great deal of resolve and heart to push on, redeem himself, gain revenge on his enemies, and finally becoming a very wealth gang leader/crime boss.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Official General