Why Do So Many People Hate CJ?

[Algonquin Assassin]

I am not hating CJ, he could easily fit into my Top 10 GTA playable characters list. He isn't the first Black protagonist and isn't the last. His success is the main reason why Franklin exists. However, what I hate is the storyline of the game itself. The story was heavily stretched to make CJ appear like a 'super God.'

 

You have to remember that he was the most popular protagonist, being the favourite of millions even after GTAIV and it's Episodes, and CJ only began to lose popularity after GTAV's release, which is nearly 10 years later. No other protagonist survived for this long, no one remembers Claude Speed, Fido was forgotten after GTA:VC came along, Tommy is popular only for nostalgia, nobody cares about Mike, Huang, Vic and Tony. Outside this forum, Niko, Johnny and Luis get s**t. Michael, Trevor and Franklin - quickly forgotten because of GTA:Online.

 

IMHO it's mostly because of the customisation that he's so popular. San Andreas was the first GTA to allow full customisation after all. You could jack CJ up to make him look Rambo or make him a lard ass and it had a decent array of clothing available.

 

Taking this into consideration it's no wonder he's so popular however as far as his actual personality goes the consensus seems to be that he's a little bitch.

[Shadowfennekin]

He's the Protagonist I hate. I love Franklin the blank slate compared to my hate for this guy.

 

1. He's a pussy. Held up at gun point. "Please don't kill me! Please! Please!" several points in this story. While other Protagonists kill or take the gun away by force instead of acting like a bitch about it. No wonder Catalina made him her bitch

 

2. He's overrated. And I feel like every black gangster Protagonists is going to get compared to him like Franklin did.

 

3. Horrible personality

 

Only thing about him that was interesting was the amount of customization you could give him. It just sucked you had to eat to stay muscular, run too much and he's no longer Fat Albert. Saints Row 2 did customization better, you could change in an instant whenever you wanted. Game didn't force it on you. Hell, you could even change the race/gender of your character from the start

[ULPaperContact]

He's the Protagonist I hate. I love Franklin the blank slate compared to my hate for this guy.

 

1. He's a pussy. Held up at gun point. "Please don't kill me! Please! Please!" several points in this story. While other Protagonists kill or take the gun away by force instead of acting like a bitch about it. No wonder Catalina made him her bitch

 

2. He's overrated. And I feel like every black gangster Protagonists is going to get compared to him like Franklin did.

 

3. Horrible personality

 

Only thing about him that was interesting was the amount of customization you could give him. It just sucked you had to eat to stay muscular, run too much and he's no longer Fat Albert. Saints Row 2 did customization better, you could change in an instant whenever you wanted. Game didn't force it on you. Hell, you could even change the race/gender of your character from the start

 

Guess I should expect that from the 'Saints Row' fanboy. And I don't agree with the rest of your post, but hey, I'll respect your opinion.

[Son of Zeus]

While many people do have genuine reasons not to like him, quite a lot of people here and on other forums find it hard to digest the fact that a black guy became more popular than others. Like OG pointed out there's plenty of racists out there and here too. And some just blindly hate on anything that becomes popular.

 

 

I am not hating CJ, he could easily fit into my Top 10 GTA playable characters list. He isn't the first Black protagonist and isn't the last. His success is the main reason why Franklin exists. However, what I hate is the storyline of the game itself. The story was heavily stretched to make CJ appear like a 'super God.'

The storyline was stretched because it was actually planned for three protagonists. Due to tech limitations they couldn't do it. It would've worked much better than in SA than V's story.

 

 

however as far as his actual personality goes the consensus seems to be that he's a little bitch.

Haha, that's real funny. Good one.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Son of Zeus

[slimeball supreme]

You have to remember that he was the most popular protagonist, being the favourite of millions even after GTAIV and it's Episodes, and CJ only began to lose popularity after GTAV's release, which is nearly 10 years later. No other protagonist survived for this long, no one remembers Claude Speed, Fido was forgotten after GTA:VC came along, Tommy is popular only for nostalgia, nobody cares about Mike, Huang, Vic and Tony. Outside this forum, Niko, Johnny and Luis get s**t. Michael, Trevor and Franklin - quickly forgotten because of GTA:Online.

Where the f*ck are you getting this from?

 

Sure, nobody cares about Huang and Vic and Tony. But I don't see Luis, Niko, and Johnny getting sh*t. I don't see Clord getting forgotten. How is popularity for nostalgia not popularity? And how the f*ck have T, F and M been forgotten because of Online? Trevor is f*cking IN ONLINE! Arguably, CJ and Niko are the most popular protagonists in the series. This is fact.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Mr. Fahrenheit

[ULPaperContact]

 

You have to remember that he was the most popular protagonist, being the favourite of millions even after GTAIV and it's Episodes, and CJ only began to lose popularity after GTAV's release, which is nearly 10 years later. No other protagonist survived for this long, no one remembers Claude Speed, Fido was forgotten after GTA:VC came along, Tommy is popular only for nostalgia, nobody cares about Mike, Huang, Vic and Tony. Outside this forum, Niko, Johnny and Luis get s**t. Michael, Trevor and Franklin - quickly forgotten because of GTA:Online.

Where the f*ck are you getting this from?

 

Sure, nobody cares about Huang and Vic and Tony. But I don't see Luis, Niko, and Johnny getting sh*t. I don't see Clord getting forgotten. How is popularity for nostalgia not popularity? And how the f*ck have T, F and M been forgotten because of Online? Trevor is f*cking IN ONLINE! Arguably, CJ and Niko are the most popular protagonists in the series. This is fact.

 

 

I completely agree. Personally I didn't like Claude that much, but I hated Trevor, Michael, and Franklin.

[slimeball supreme]

 

 

You have to remember that he was the most popular protagonist, being the favourite of millions even after GTAIV and it's Episodes, and CJ only began to lose popularity after GTAV's release, which is nearly 10 years later. No other protagonist survived for this long, no one remembers Claude Speed, Fido was forgotten after GTA:VC came along, Tommy is popular only for nostalgia, nobody cares about Mike, Huang, Vic and Tony. Outside this forum, Niko, Johnny and Luis get s**t. Michael, Trevor and Franklin - quickly forgotten because of GTA:Online.

 

Where the f*ck are you getting this from?

Sure, nobody cares about Huang and Vic and Tony. But I don't see Luis, Niko, and Johnny getting sh*t. I don't see Clord getting forgotten. How is popularity for nostalgia not popularity? And how the f*ck have T, F and M been forgotten because of Online? Trevor is f*cking IN ONLINE! Arguably, CJ and Niko are the most popular protagonists in the series. This is fact.

 

I completely agree. Personally I didn't like Claude that much, but I hated Trevor, Michael, and Franklin.

Its fine to not like these characters, personally I'm not much a fan of CJ, but at the end of the day CJ and Niko are the most popular protagonists in the series. It's also hard to deny the popularity of the V trio and Tommy V, or even Claude.

[ULPaperContact]

 

 

 

You have to remember that he was the most popular protagonist, being the favourite of millions even after GTAIV and it's Episodes, and CJ only began to lose popularity after GTAV's release, which is nearly 10 years later. No other protagonist survived for this long, no one remembers Claude Speed, Fido was forgotten after GTA:VC came along, Tommy is popular only for nostalgia, nobody cares about Mike, Huang, Vic and Tony. Outside this forum, Niko, Johnny and Luis get s**t. Michael, Trevor and Franklin - quickly forgotten because of GTA:Online.

Where the f*ck are you getting this from?

Sure, nobody cares about Huang and Vic and Tony. But I don't see Luis, Niko, and Johnny getting sh*t. I don't see Clord getting forgotten. How is popularity for nostalgia not popularity? And how the f*ck have T, F and M been forgotten because of Online? Trevor is f*cking IN ONLINE! Arguably, CJ and Niko are the most popular protagonists in the series. This is fact.

I completely agree. Personally I didn't like Claude that much, but I hated Trevor, Michael, and Franklin.

Its fine to not like these characters, personally I'm not much a fan of CJ, but at the end of the day CJ and Niko are the most popular protagonists in the series. It's also hard to deny the popularity of the V trio and Tommy V, or even Claude.

 

Good, you aren't one of 'them'. Yeah, my reasons for disliking the V trio are plentiful, but for Claude it's mostly because he has literally no personality.

[slimeball supreme]

 

 

 

 

You have to remember that he was the most popular protagonist, being the favourite of millions even after GTAIV and it's Episodes, and CJ only began to lose popularity after GTAV's release, which is nearly 10 years later. No other protagonist survived for this long, no one remembers Claude Speed, Fido was forgotten after GTA:VC came along, Tommy is popular only for nostalgia, nobody cares about Mike, Huang, Vic and Tony. Outside this forum, Niko, Johnny and Luis get s**t. Michael, Trevor and Franklin - quickly forgotten because of GTA:Online.

 

Where the f*ck are you getting this from?

Sure, nobody cares about Huang and Vic and Tony. But I don't see Luis, Niko, and Johnny getting sh*t. I don't see Clord getting forgotten. How is popularity for nostalgia not popularity? And how the f*ck have T, F and M been forgotten because of Online? Trevor is f*cking IN ONLINE! Arguably, CJ and Niko are the most popular protagonists in the series. This is fact.

I completely agree. Personally I didn't like Claude that much, but I hated Trevor, Michael, and Franklin.

Its fine to not like these characters, personally I'm not much a fan of CJ, but at the end of the day CJ and Niko are the most popular protagonists in the series. It's also hard to deny the popularity of the V trio and Tommy V, or even Claude.

 

Good, you aren't one of 'them'. Yeah, my reasons for disliking the V trio are plentiful, but for Claude it's mostly because he has literally no personality.Fair enough.

[Official General]

I'm more inclined to believe that CJ and Tommy are the most popular protagonists in GTA history, I'd say Niko comes in 3rd.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Official General

[Big_Smiley]

 

You have to remember that he was the most popular protagonist, being the favourite of millions even after GTAIV and it's Episodes, and CJ only began to lose popularity after GTAV's release, which is nearly 10 years later. No other protagonist survived for this long, no one remembers Claude Speed, Fido was forgotten after GTA:VC came along, Tommy is popular only for nostalgia, nobody cares about Mike, Huang, Vic and Tony. Outside this forum, Niko, Johnny and Luis get s**t. Michael, Trevor and Franklin - quickly forgotten because of GTA:Online.

Where the f*ck are you getting this from?

Sure, nobody cares about Huang and Vic and Tony. But I don't see Luis, Niko, and Johnny getting sh*t. I don't see Clord getting forgotten. How is popularity for nostalgia not popularity? And how the f*ck have T, F and M been forgotten because of Online? Trevor is f*cking IN ONLINE! Arguably, CJ and Niko are the most popular protagonists in the series. This is fact.

I know. Why doesn't anyone really mention the other three protags? Really Tony,Vic, and Huang lee are also protagonist but it's like mainly CJ,Niko or even Tommy V who get mention mostly. Edited January 23, 2016 by GTA_The_Series

[combustion]

 

The storyline was stretched because it was actually planned for three protagonists. Due to tech limitations they couldn't do it. It would've worked much better than in SA than V's story.

IK that the story was stretched due to limitations, but why did the even stretch the story? GTAV has a bigger map, but not all parts of the map are covered by doing missions, like the mountains or that muddy area above Vinewood for example. SA's story was stretched to the point where it became so much unrealistic. They created the 'Black Project' mission just to showcase Area 69. They could have kept the story smaller and limited to two or three places, or made a better story. The latter is possible.

 

 

Sure, nobody cares about Huang and Vic and Tony. But I don't see Luis, Niko, and Johnny getting sh*t. I don't see Clord getting forgotten. How is popularity for nostalgia not popularity? And how the f*ck have T, F and M been forgotten because of Online? Trevor is f*cking IN ONLINE! Arguably, CJ and Niko are the most popular protagonists in the series. This is fact.

 

 

Not many people know who Claude Speed is. They confuse it with the guy from GTAIII. Niko Bellic isn't the most popular playable character either. Sure, he was popular after the release of GTAIV, but right now, after two years from the release of V, he isn't popular on the internet (excluding this forum). Rockstar used Johnny as an object in Trevor's storyline because of his lack of popularity. GTAIV could be the best GTA game ever released, but not many people were satisfied with their experience of playing. It could be due to the game being too 'realistic and hard' for them, or due to crappy performance; and if people don't like a game, they don't like the protagonist either. Half of GTA:Online players (people who are mostly underaged to play that game) think Niko is s**t, mainly because they haven't played the game or think GTAIV itself as a s**t game. There are people who run around saying 'Niko is the best', but there are far more who don't like him.

 

By telling T, F and M were forgotten, I was meaning to say that they are not popular. Players are aware of their existence, but don't 'worship' them like CJ's fanboys. So, it can be said that CJ is the most popular protagonist.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Leo2301

[slimeball supreme]

I'm more inclined to believe that CJ and Tommy are the most popular protagonists in GTA history, I'd say Niko comes in 3rd.

How is Tommy really that popular? I don't see him anywhere. Niko and CJ, I see them everywhere - but no matter how good of a character Tommy is you don't really see him much.

 

Not many people know who Claude Speed is. They confuse it with the guy from GTAIII. Niko Bellic isn't the most popular playable character either. Sure, he was popular after the release of GTAIV, but right now, after two years from the release of V, he isn't popular on the internet (excluding this forum). Rockstar used Johnny as an object in Trevor's storyline because of his lack of popularity. GTAIV could be the best GTA game ever released, but not many people were satisfied with their experience of playing. It could be due to the game being too 'realistic and hard' for them, or due to crappy performance; and if people don't like a game, they don't like the protagonist either. Half of GTA:Online players (people who are mostly underaged to play that game) think Niko is s**t, mainly because they haven't played the game or think GTAIV itself as a s**t game. There are people who run around saying 'Niko is the best', but there are far more who don't like him.

 

By telling T, F and M were forgotten, I was meaning to say that they are not popular. Players are aware of their existence, but don't 'worship' them like CJ's fanboys. So, it can be said that CJ is the most popular protagonist.

Claude is Fido. Rockstar canonically called him that, and all merchandise associated with him has that name on it. Not the same person, but still.

 

The rest of your post can be associated with your presumption. You haven't backed up the facts here. I don't see Niko or Johhny or Luis being hated in anywhere. I don't see the stats showing the majority of Online's player base are children. I don't see the proof that Johnny was used because he wasn't popular, these are just your personal opinions or assumptions. Nothing less, nothing more.

[Official General]

@ MrFahrenheit

 

For you to say Tommy is not popular ? You're seriously not serious.

[Son of Zeus]

 

The storyline was stretched because it was actually planned for three protagonists. Due to tech limitations they couldn't do it. It would've worked much better than in SA than V's story.

IK that the story was stretched due to limitations, but why did the even stretch the story? GTAV has a bigger map, but not all parts of the map are covered by doing missions, like the mountains or that muddy area above Vinewood for example. SA's story was stretched to the point where it became so much unrealistic. They created the 'Black Project' mission just to showcase Area 69. They could have kept the story smaller and limited to two or three places, or made a better story. The latter is possible.I sort of get your point, but V's map is not like SA's map. V is a single city with countryside so they could afford to leave some places. SA has three cities and they had to capture the theme of each of their real life counterparts: LA gangbanging, SF triads and the casino mobs of Las Vegas. Each city is utilised well, but they did leave some places. For example LS docks, Back O Beyond and Chiliad area etc.

 

Yes, the jetpack mission was unrealistic. But I think R* decided to reference the real life Area 51 myths and conspiracies and created that mission. It's not really a big deal seeing as the jetpacks there only for two missions and never mentioned again in the story. Maybe they could've introduced it as a special collectible or something, but it still doesn't have any impact on the story as it is.

 

 

@ MrFahrenheit

 

For you to say Tommy is not popular ? You're seriously not serious.

Yeah I don't know what he's talking about. Sure, Niko is very popular here, but in other places I see Tommy and CJ being mentioned and people arguing about them.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Son of Zeus

[Osho]

IK that the story was stretched due to limitations, but why did the even stretch the story?

GTAV has a bigger map, but not all parts of the map are covered by doing missions, like the mountains or that muddy area above Vinewood for example. SA's story was stretched to the point where it became so much unrealistic. They created the 'Black Project' mission just to showcase Area 69.02They could have kept the story smaller and limited to two or three places, or made a better story. The latter is possible.

I have answered such questions a lot of times and there are people still don't bother to read Dan Houser's interview, to understand the reasons right from the creator himself, here:-

> On story and mission structure:

"There are bits in the game that are more gang focussed and bits where you¡¯re more of a lone operative. We've got this challenge in the game where we want to keep it open and we want to put a good story in - the stories are really good for dragging you through everything"

.....

> On game personalisation and more on mission structure:

"If we'd both been playing for a while, your game would begin to feel very different from my game. We might be at the same point in the mission structure, but your character might look great, you know, have all these great attributes, have a lot of money coming in, but if I'm just focussed on the missions I might look like a piece of sh*t. It's about giving people that freedom of choice. It's still very much an action game, but there's a whole world out there to explore if you want to. You also get the advantage of a story which relies on emotion and characters.

So the story opens up, it feels very non-linear, then it closes for a bit, then it opens up again"

[SmokesWithCigs]

Maybe because it has no personality?

Or, better, maybe because he has wathever personality the writer feels in that moment, basically making him a non-character?

 

- The "family" (aka grove street) man. Tthe best CJ and the only one who deserve to be called a "protagonist", able to mix a serious past and reasons with a good sense of humor.

 

- the catalina bi**** and BDSM partner

- the FBI bi****

- CRASH bi*****

- suddenly (and for just one mission, Deconstruction) a psychopath who buries people alive

- an expert thief and master planner (while until then he just did some car thief and house raid )

and so on and on and on...

 

yeah, i know, R* said they tried to mix different storyline together... but for me, it didn't work, creating a character whose actions in one mission didn't match the actions in the following ones

 

see there you go with that story and writing bullsh*t as if you could write a better story or character. can you write a better story or character? no? well stfu then.

[slimeball supreme]

@ MrFahrenheit

For you to say Tommy is not popular ? You're seriously not serious.

No, not at all.

[Paul723]

True... with the Catalina fact I can agree with, the only thing that bothers me is how Cesar didn't warn CJ of what a bitch she was.

I ask myself the same question every time. Cesar knows how crazy Catalina is. (she's his cousin for crying the f*ck out loud) You'd think as his friend, Cesar would at least warn CJ about Catalina's unpredictable behavior before meeting her. Either Cesar's a horrible judge of character or he really doesn't know his own cousin at all.

[lil weasel]

In a manner Cesar did.

He referred to Her as "Them" a number of times when talking to Carl.

Also, Catalina is a Cousin, which means he might not know that much about her and her dysfunctional side of the family.

 

Catalina has her own topic, and this one is about why You Hate Carl.

http://gtaforums.com/topic/292159-catalina/?hl=catalina

http://gtaforums.com/topic/802462-catalina-appreciation-thread/?hl=catalina

Edited January 27, 2016 by lil weasel

[theGTAking101]

I don't know why so many people say he whines all the time, because I never noticed that. Of course he complains about certain things, but he has every right to because there's a lot going on in his life at the moment.

[Official General]

I don't know why so many people say he whines all the time, because I never noticed that. Of course he complains about certain things, but he has every right to because there's a lot going on in his life at the moment.

I agree with this.

 

I've not really noticed this myself. I'm currently playing through the game on the PS4 and I'm half way through it, and I've not really noticed or seen the ton of whining that CJ is supposed to be expressing. The only time I see him moan or complain is when he gets harassed by Tennypenny and Pulaski, and even then, he does not always do that with them.

 

The biggest whiner of any GTA protagonist I've seen is Franklin.

[Son of Zeus]

 

I don't know why so many people say he whines all the time, because I never noticed that. Of course he complains about certain things, but he has every right to because there's a lot going on in his life at the moment.

I agree with this.

 

I've not really noticed this myself. I'm currently playing through the game on the PS4 and I'm half way through it, and I've not really noticed or seen the ton of whining that CJ is supposed to be expressing. The only time I see him moan or complain is when he gets harassed by Tennypenny and Pulaski, and even then, he does not always do that with them.

 

The biggest whiner of any GTA protagonist I've seen is Franklin.

Exactly. Franklin's whining is mainly about the money, which is pretty pathetic compared to the problems of other protagonists.

[Osho]

Because Rockstar created a protagonist with a greater emphasis on the sandbox/creative appeal of "playing" him, taking the GTA formula a bit further, that dwarfs GTA IV/V sandboxes to this day.

Those who expected a much greater emphasis on his story, the depth of the character, and more awesome cutscenes than gameplay, may be got dissapointed with him and hated the fact that CJ is actually more fun, less boring, gives the player more freedom, and doesn't take himself too seriously.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Osho

[Yozora]

CJ was the underdog! He came up from the bottom and rose above the conflict. And people who argue his actions need to pay closer attention to the story.

[Diddly-doodly]

He kind of lacks a soul, his facial expression is always blank and neutral. But that's a good think since Cj becomes the embodiment of the player himself. You can make him wear/be almost anything, from a punk to a classy business man. Cj has no opinions about things, no life principles (unlike Niko), Cj is blank and will become whatever the f#ck you want him to become. And I'm thankful Cj is that way, GTA SA is a light hearted game focused on fun and the sandbox, a "deep" protagonist with a complicated personality would ruin the easy going fun atmosphere of the game.

[Algonquin Assassin]

no life principles (unlike Niko),

 

I don't agree with that. I mean the guy's more human compared to Claude and Tommy and one of his ulterior motives is to avenge his mother's death. In saying that I find him to be rather bland because from the get go the game forces this onto us so it's like it wants us to identity with his struggles, but the problem is he doesn't have a deep enough persona to really care

 

The first time I done "The Green Sabre" I actually wasn't all that surprised it was Ryder and Big Smoke behind it, but I didn't feel anything for CJ. Nothing at all. There are obvious traits of CJ's personality where R* tried to give him some life principles/human like qualities however the game doesn't take itself seriously enough for any of these to stick or have any meaning so IMO it all feels pointless.

[TimMiller]

I used to love CJ when i was kid.I never gave a f*ck that he was black (seriously???) he was a funny and badass protagonist who cared much for his family and his friends.

And he burried someone alived who cat called his sister, that just shows how much he cares for his family!

[universalyee]

I like cj he was for me the best protagonist until i played GTA IV,i felt that he was a real character on a unreal game if it was claude or tommy stealing jetpacks everthing would be ok,but he have good charisma but i think that if the game taked itself a little more serious i would like cj more,still i do not know how people can like tommy more he´s just a guy that f*cks everyone prove of that is that ken rosenberg is in san andreas but we are talking about cj here.

I think cj was a smart guy and i like that,he´s customization was cool but only physics customizations if this game have choices than it would be cool he do not learned from his error too,but this is story faul too i felt that after you leave los santos everything the story is just a excuse to the map size even if we liked i think that if it was a game to have three protagonis it was to be SA.CJ for LS,Cesar for SF and Woozie for LV.

 

P.S:about catalina scene if it was another protagonist they would do the same except niko an vic vance those were trained in the army they know how to disarm a enemy

[Journey_95]

I think he is by far the weakest part of SA, his character is just all over the place. If SA had multiple protags, maybe I would like him more.

 

But thankfully due to the great open world and really memorable side characters the game was still pretty good.

 

Still he isn't the worst GTA protag, hell no.