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[REL/OpenSrc] Magic.TXD


The_GTA
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During my manual extraction process (Using TXD Workshop) I've ended up with some 800-900MB worth of .BMP images. Using this to extract everything automatically and in 1 move it's only 700-ishMB. Could you clarify why this is? Thanks.

Well for one, Magic.TXD outputs the CORRECT BMP stats, so if it doesn't have an alpha mask, then it outputs as RGB8 instead of RGBA8, think of all the images that DON'T have an alpha mask in these games and essentially you're going to save a lot of space. TXDWorkshop just outputs as RGBA8 all the time no matter what for BMP.

 

 

So what the problem with recompressing? To be able to edit the image, it must be uncompressed and cmpressed back later. TXDWorckshop has the feature to worck with rgb and alpha chenels separatly. Why not have this feature in magicTXD?

Also not every txd is compressed.

Because, basically, it's a bad method and can cause errors down the line when you constantly rip apart the mask and reattach it, that was one area where TXDWorkshop could start to mess up and cause the TXD to crash the game, the aim of Magic.TXD is to keep things done properly so they are built correctly and will ALWAYS work with the game. Edited by Ash_735
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During my manual extraction process (Using TXD Workshop) I've ended up with some 800-900MB worth of .BMP images. Using this to extract everything automatically and in 1 move it's only 700-ishMB. Could you clarify why this is? Thanks.

Well for one, Magic.TXD outputs the CORRECT BMP stats, so if it doesn't have an alpha mask, then it outputs as RGB8 instead of RGBA8, think of all the images that DON'T have an alpha mask in these games and essentially you're going to save a lot of space. TXDWorkshop just outputs as RGBA8 all the time no matter what for BMP.

 

So what the problem with recompressing? To be able to edit the image, it must be uncompressed and cmpressed back later. TXDWorckshop has the feature to worck with rgb and alpha chenels separatly. Why not have this feature in magicTXD?

Also not every txd is compressed.

Because, basically, it's a bad method and can cause errors down the line when you constantly rip apart the mask and reattach it, that was one area where TXDWorkshop could start to mess up and cause the TXD to crash the game, the aim of Magic.TXD is to keep things done properly so they are built correctly and will ALWAYS work with the game.

 

What you mean by rip apart the mask? The texture bounds are known, so the program can check them to not going out the mask. For uncompressed rgba textures it´s really simple, have already implemented that feature in my own tool, but the compression and decompression is still a problem for me.

Edited by cj2000
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What you mean by rip apart the mask?

I think he meant that including an alpha-channel-only replacement feature falsely advocates that the color channel does not degrade, hence to "rip" apart the mask from the color data.
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What you mean by rip apart the mask?

I think he meant that including an alpha-channel-only replacement feature falsely advocates that the color channel does not degrade, hence to "rip" apart the mask from the color data.

 

Really don´t understand the point. The texture raster can be defined like this RGBA raster[width*height]; and RGBA is just uchar[4]. With this definition every single alpha value can be manipulated.

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Really don´t understand the point. The texture raster can be defined like this RGBA raster[width*height]; and RGBA is just uchar[4]. With this definition every single alpha value can be manipulated.

That works well for UNCOMPRESSED, but seeing as majority of people use DXT Compression, it involves decompressing that on the fly to get access to the alpha mask, and then each time you mess with it, it has to constantly go back and forth decompressing and recompressing the same image which in turn degrades the main channels. So even if you flip back and forth between two different masks cause you want to see which is better, that's going to constantly degrade the overall image quality, not to mention actual developers would never use such method for these things, if you want to do things properly then actual make the effort. Then again you're a dev for Underground so quality isn't a concern :p
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Really don´t understand the point. The texture raster can be defined like this RGBA raster[width*height]; and RGBA is just uchar[4]. With this definition every single alpha value can be manipulated.

That works well for UNCOMPRESSED, but seeing as majority of people use DXT Compression, it involves decompressing that on the fly to get access to the alpha mask, and then each time you mess with it, it has to constantly go back and forth decompressing and recompressing the same image which in turn degrades the main channels. So even if you flip back and forth between two different masks cause you want to see which is better, that's going to constantly degrade the overall image quality, not to mention actual developers would never use such method for these things, if you want to do things properly then actual make the effort. Then again you're a dev for Underground so quality isn't a concern :p

 

I see you point, but the last sentence about Underground was really unnecesary, I desagree with some stuff Danny does, but I can´t make it beter, can you?

Also you always worcking with 1 image at the same time, so the image can be decompressed to some kind of buffer, where you can edit it and once you are done with editing it´ll be compressed back. And tell me about the memory such buffer would need, as even my 15 years old notebook can handle that without any problem, so for modern PCs it´ll be no problem at all. This buffer solution has an other advance, if you don´t like the result of editing the image, you can just throw it away without compressing.

Edited by cj2000
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If you're going through all that trouble though, why not just use an image editor where this sh*t can be done professionally? You're talking about updates that would require Magic.TXD to become an image editor, which is not the point, just because TXDWorkshop did it and that was by doing things wrong, people need to get used to doing things properly if they want the best results, especially if you hope to transfer these skills elsewhere outside of the GTA Modding bubble.

 

As for your question of if I'd do it better, well, history proves that one. :p:D

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If you're going through all that trouble though, why not just use an image editor where this sh*t can be done professionally? You're talking about updates that would require Magic.TXD to become an image editor, which is not the point, just because TXDWorkshop did it and that was by doing things wrong, people need to get used to doing things properly if they want the best results, especially if you hope to transfer these skills elsewhere outside of the GTA Modding bubble.

 

As for your question of if I'd do it better, well, history proves that one. :p:D

Not really an image editor, the most alpha images needing some editing contain just leters and such editing can be done even in a simple paint. Exporting alpha image separatly would solve the problem to and would be satisfied for me.

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If you're going through all that trouble though, why not just use an image editor where this sh*t can be done professionally? You're talking about updates that would require Magic.TXD to become an image editor, which is not the point, just because TXDWorkshop did it and that was by doing things wrong, people need to get used to doing things properly if they want the best results, especially if you hope to transfer these skills elsewhere outside of the GTA Modding bubble.

 

As for your question of if I'd do it better, well, history proves that one. :p:D

Not really an image editor, the most alpha images needing some editing contain just leters and such editing can be done even in a simple paint. Exporting alpha image separatly would solve the problem to and would be satisfied for me.> Export image as TGA or PNG

> Import into editor

> Apply Current Layer Mask / Show Layer Mask

 

That's what you're talking about.

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If you're going through all that trouble though, why not just use an image editor where this sh*t can be done professionally? You're talking about updates that would require Magic.TXD to become an image editor, which is not the point, just because TXDWorkshop did it and that was by doing things wrong, people need to get used to doing things properly if they want the best results, especially if you hope to transfer these skills elsewhere outside of the GTA Modding bubble.

 

As for your question of if I'd do it better, well, history proves that one. :p:D

Not really an image editor, the most alpha images needing some editing contain just leters and such editing can be done even in a simple paint. Exporting alpha image separatly would solve the problem to and would be satisfied for me.
> Export image as TGA or PNG

> Import into editor

> Apply Current Layer Mask / Show Layer Mask

 

That's what you're talking about.

 

And what is the problem to export the alpha image separatlly?

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And what is the problem to export the alpha image separatlly?

Because then you'd be stuck with an Alpha Image on it's own with no adjacent main image, meaning, you're still going to need to rip them apart when re-importing to put them back together! :p

 

Why are you so against doing things the way ACTUAL developers do it? Literally just use GIMP if you want something for free, export as TGA/PNG, and that way you can do all the edits you want to the main image and mask and then export as DDS which Magic.TXD works with meaning your texture will display exactly as you exported it from the image editor.

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And what is the problem to export the alpha image separatlly?

Because then you'd be stuck with an Alpha Image on it's own with no adjacent main image, meaning, you're still going to need to rip them apart when re-importing to put them back together! :p

 

Why are you so against doing things the way ACTUAL developers do it? Literally just use GIMP if you want something for free, export as TGA/PNG, and that way you can do all the edits you want to the main image and mask and then export as DDS which Magic.TXD works with meaning your texture will display exactly as you exported it from the image editor.

 

Why should I use that Linux sh*t called GIMP? If I want to edit only alpha image, like the leter, I was tallking about, there is no need in the complete image. So to be more precise, why the f... I need Photoshop or GIMP to make such simple stuff with alpha image?

Don´t get it wrong, not wanting to argue with you, just my opinion.

Edited by cj2000
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So to be more precise, why the f... I need Photoshop or GIMP to make such simple stuff with alpha image?

Wait were you serious when you said Microsoft Paint earlier? BRUH!
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Don't be so pr0, everybody has their favourite tools. Using MS Paint doesn't make you look worse or something.

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Don't be so pr0, everybody has their favourite tools. Using MS Paint doesn't make you look worse or something.

I don't disagree, it can be good for something quick, but in terms here we're talking about Alpha Masks, which MS Paint has zero support for.

 

I just think GTA Modders have been conditioned by TXDWorkshop for so many years now that they think that's the way they have to do things, when in reality, it's a huge benefit to take this time and explore how things can be done in a more professional manner, Magic.TXD allows that, it even supports packing of different formatting types, which people can now use to their advantage in either saving space, or retaining better quality, and all of these are available through image editing software with the DDS plug-in.

 

And the best part is, once you learn it this way, it actually becomes much quicker to try stuff out, change things, mess around with the masks, swap masks out, etc, and again, you can use these skills elsewhere, school project, want to get into graphic creation and design, etc. Do it the proper way so not only does it become easier for you, allows you most control over the final output, etc, but also because it's a skill you might need to use elsewhere, and you'll be glad you did because you picked it up doing GTA mods.

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Don't be so pr0, everybody has their favourite tools. Using MS Paint doesn't make you look worse or something.

MS Paint doesn't even support transparency in PNGs.

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So to be more precise, why the f... I need Photoshop or GIMP to make such simple stuff with alpha image?

Wait were you serious when you said Microsoft Paint earlier? BRUH!

Yes, yousing Photoshop, GIMP or any other similar tool for that purpose is like shooting with cannons on sparrow.

 

Don't be so pr0, everybody has their favourite tools. Using MS Paint doesn't make you look worse or something.

I don't disagree, it can be good for something quick, but in terms here we're talking about Alpha Masks, which MS Paint has zero support for.

 

This is the reason, I was tallking about exporting apha chanel as separate image. When you have alpha chanel as grayscale image, you can worck with it in every simple programm, that can handle images.

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Yes, yousing Photoshop, GIMP or any other similar tool for that purpose is like shooting with cannons on sparrow.

It's really not, I can't really say more on that as you're doing things the awkward way and refusing to use the actual programs designed for this sort of thing. If it bothers you THAT much, then use the image programs to export the alpha mask and edit in MS Paint if that's what you really want but in all terms of reality, an image editing program will cover all the features MS Paint has and like a whole boat more. I just don't really understand why you're refusing to use said programs.
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I use notepad to make small changes in game code, using Visual Studio or any other similar tool for that purpose is like shooting with cannons on sparrow.

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Yes, yousing Photoshop, GIMP or any other similar tool for that purpose is like shooting with cannons on sparrow.

It's really not, I can't really say more on that as you're doing things the awkward way and refusing to use the actual programs designed for this sort of thing. If it bothers you THAT much, then use the image programs to export the alpha mask and edit in MS Paint if that's what you really want but in all terms of reality, an image editing program will cover all the features MS Paint has and like a whole boat more. I just don't really understand why you're refusing to use said programs.

 

I already tolld you, that for that purpose this tools are exaggerated. For some advanced image editing functions I wouldn´t use paint, but some small photoshop clone. But even for that advanced tool I prefer to have rgb and alpha separated.

So let me give you an example of what can be done just with paint: changing leters LSPD to LCPD by replacing the S by C.

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So let me give you an example of what can be done just with paint: changing leters LSPD to LCPD by replacing the S by C.

My reaction honestly?

 

 

lol

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I use notepad to make small changes in game code, using Visual Studio or any other similar tool for that purpose is like shooting with cannons on sparrow.

Sarcastic as always, some people using even VI for programming, so what.

Edited by cj2000
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You're treating this as if using anything other than Paint requires an hour worth of preparation...

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So let me give you an example of what can be done just with paint: changing leters LSPD to LCPD by replacing the S by C.

My reaction honestly?

 

 

lol

 

Have expected that, but was just an example.

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But even for that advanced tool I prefer to have rgb and alpha separated.

me1H5Xx.jpg

 

1iKIA4B.jpg

 

JIa4Az8.jpg

 

vvG30Si.jpg

 

4Yc2k0c.jpg

 

jKXhIC1.jpg

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I use notepad to make small changes in game code, using Visual Studio or any other similar tool for that purpose is like shooting with cannons on sparrow.

Sarcastic as always, some people using even VI for programming, so what.

 

Quite not, for example, I'm using notepad for small changes (easier.txt) :)

Besides I don't think that being always sarcastic and cynic is an ultimate sign of intelligence during the constructive conversation. Otherwise it would be just an ugly show.

 

Anyway guys stop that war please, it's better to make own alpha channel replacement tool than reading that stuff.

In case of saving time.

Edited by HM128
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Quite not, for example, I'm using notepad for small changes (easier.txt) :)

Besides I don't think that being always sarcastic and cynic is an ultimate sign of intelligence during the constructive conversation. Otherwise it could be just a show.

 

Anyway guys stop that war please, it's better to make own alpha channel replacement tool than reading that stuff.

In case of saving time.

During the conversation good points were made so I do not mind "that war".

 

cj2000 has been really good at tickling out the common sense, even if guys are supposed to know how to use tools together anyway.

Edited by The_GTA
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It looked like one vs few people here but it was just my point of view I think.

Edited by HM128
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It looked like one vs few people here but it was just my point of view I think.

Posibly, but have already stressed out here, that I am not arguing with anibody here and it defenetlly not war for me, just triing to show my opinion, not more.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ehy just a question, are you gonna do a variant for open ps2 texture files? (.chk) it will be so nice! :lol:

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