No witnesses, no crime?

[Rhoda]

So the wanted level system has had quite the overhaul since the 3D universe days. It seems now that wanted stars are less relevant than ever, with a radar and blips showing off how much heat you've attracted. It's now more about strategically hiding or evading the fuzz for long enough to be forgotten about, especially for the more petty crimes.

 

This got me thinking of how petty crime should be handled in future GTA games. Attaining stars has always been a bit hit and miss - if you stole a car in front of a police officer, you can bet your buns he'll be galloping after you. Do it in the middle of nowhere though, and there's a chance you'll earn a star anyway, despite the fact nobody for miles around heard or saw you. This can lead to an uncomfortable couple of minutes where a rookie on the job follows you half way up a mountain because his radar ears heard a car window smash.

 

I think a good idea would be to bring back the "no witnesses, no crime" system as seen in Read Dead Redemption. It might seem like a cop out (no pun intended) but it would add a little more strategy into stealing cars or taking people out. I've always liked how in IV you could drive into an alleyway and turn your lights off, hiding in plain sight until your wanted level dies down.

[zuckmeslow]

this definitely needs to be implemented in the next gta. if you are out in the wilderness and you shoot a random npc, cops shouldnt just spawn there. it should all be based on who sees you. it would make sticky bombs and other explosives more fun to use. If you place sticky bombs on a car and no one sees you then no police should be after you when it blows up.

[XenoxX]

 

 

Do it in the middle of nowhere though, and there's a chance you'll earn a star anyway, despite the fact nobody for miles around heard or saw you. This can lead to an uncomfortable couple of minutes where a rookie on the job follows you half way up a mountain because his radar ears heard a car window smash.

That was a bug, where animals were able to report crimes, as the bug was fixed you have a similar no witnesses no crime system, most of the times unless you trigger a wanted level by mission/activity or shoot a RPG or similar.

[chilleverest]

I very much like the realistic approach that allows the game to be fun without compromising the flow simultaneously .

 

Edited April 10, 2016 by chilleverest

[chilleverest]

 

 

 

Do it in the middle of nowhere though, and there's a chance you'll earn a star anyway, despite the fact nobody for miles around heard or saw you. This can lead to an uncomfortable couple of minutes where a rookie on the job follows you half way up a mountain because his radar ears heard a car window smash.

That was a bug, where animals were able to report crimes, as the bug was fixed you have a similar no witnesses no crime system, most of the times unless you trigger a wanted level by mission/activity or shoot a RPG or similar.

 

So you are telling me a game that was delayed multiple times to ''polish'' (RS's own word), released months after on PC, still had this glaring bug intact. Would you really call that a bug ? I clearly think that was no bug at all when clearly a game released years ago perfected the system.

Edited April 10, 2016 by chilleverest

[PhillBellic]

That was supposed to be the System used in V. Unfortunately, in true Rockstar Fashion, they never properly set up the relevant Files including 'witnessinformation.meta'.

[Michael]

I totally agree with this, it adds up to the overall value and if I want to whack someone quietly with an shotgun in the forest with no one there, I don't see the point why the police should come and know that someone got shot there.

[RedDagger]

As said before something of the sort was intended to be implemented in V, but yeah in its current state it's weird how the system works what with the larger focus on stealth compared to previous games.

 

Still, I imagine R* will have at least seem the large amount of...feedback...regarding the implementation in V, so I'm basically expecting this to be included in VI.

[Pilotmonkey]

Police* Sure, cops are fairly easy to obtain, and evade, and once they're gone, they're gone. There should be a new system that has you think before you commit a crime. i.e. You kill somebody through melee, such as a stabbing in broad daylight, witnesses will call the police, but you're not wanted. You have about 10-15 in game minutes to flee the area ( 10-15 IRL seconds). The police have a description of you, and will be searching for about 5 in game hours. Your characters description at the time of the crime will remain at large for a few in game days. within the area, size of the search radius depending on the crime, and how many witnesses. Changing your description slightly and being in an area where the crime wasn't committed shouldn't attract a lot of attention, unless you do something that does, and be around there for quite a bit of time, you will be recognized. A hit and run will have your vehicle on lookout, and if seen you will be pursued. Your options are to destroy the vehicle, submerging in water, fire, or any other possible method, or get your car resprayed and or any cosmetic changes. Your car will remain on high alert for atleast 4 in game days, only if a witness was able to identify the vehicle, and the former if they were able to describe the driver. Crimes committed at night, with poor visibility and possibly no witnesses. Now if this game takes place before the mid 2000's, not all witnesses would have a cell phone, thus giving you more time to flee.

Post i made recently

Edited April 10, 2016 by Pilotmonkey

[Fuzzknuckles]

Maybe they should have detectives in game, who, after a few days, come looking for you for murders committed when there are no witnesses about. A character like Lester might be able to give you a heads up that you're a suspect and you have to take out the detectives that are sent out to find you. Or you could have a lay-low option where you relocate to elsewhere on the map for a few in-game days to let the heat die down. The case is closed when the detectives fail to find you in a given time-frame.

[MVP]

They should definitely implement the wanted system from Red Dead. I think the system in GTA VI should be very in-depth depending on what crime you do. Each star should matter. 6 stars should be in this game, ranging from getting a warning from a beat cop to the army (only if you are well known, similar to the honor/fame system in Red Dead.)

[ThatScarlett]

The Red Dead system would work pretty well in GTA I imagine, depending on when this game is set, it would be nice to be able to stop people from ringing the police too.

[GTA-Biker]

I agree about the Red Dead wanted level system.

Mafia 1 also had a good system,where you could kill a cop who saw you commit crime before he gets to the payphone and reports a crime to the station.Granted,it wouldn't work with cops in GTA because they carry walkie-talkies (Mafia 1 was set in 1930s,while GTA is usually late 20th or early 21st century),but it could work with civilian NPCs,if a civilian sees you steal a car or kill someone and pulls out a cellphone to call the cops,the player could kill that civilian to prevent a wanted level.

They could even make different civilian NPCs react to seeing the player commit crimes differently,some could run away,some could call the cops,and some could even attack the player themselves,especially if they're armed.

[Secura]

The idea of having multiple characters with one perpetually wanted was always interesting to me, as in they wouldn't have much trouble blending in and hiding from the law if they changed their appearance but whatever protection doing so buys the character from the law should remain temporary, or at least something similar to this where you can't just rampage without there being some longer-term consequences for doing so.

[Mister Pink]

I don't know how they overcome this issue from a programming perspective. It doesn't seem to hard, but I haven't a clue either.. so  

 

 

If you split NPCs/Pedestrians in to 3 personality types they can kind of help determine how they behave when they witness crimes.

 

1. Those that run when they see a crime (Runners)
2. Those that want to call the police  (Rats)
3. Those that want to fight.  (Fighters)

 

All NPC's will have a percentage of each trait but they uusually will have a more dominant trait.  For example: a if you have 66% (Rat) personality type NPC, they're more likely to call police. You might find this type of NPC spawning in upper-class and residential and downtown areas. 

 

Gangs, other criminals and NPCs that spawn in impoverished areas will have more NPC's with 66% Fighter Personality type

 

And there's always be Runners and every type in every area. 

 

I'll give you a scenario or two: City vs Countryside. 

 

City

 

I was just imagining that your player has an invisible radius around them. Anyone within the radius such as NPC's, have the opportunity to witness and report a crime. That radius might grow bigger in densely populated areas as there would be more people to witness and report a crime. Now, not everyone that see's a crime will call the cops. So, if you have 5 NPC's that witness you committing a crime, say, 3 of those 5 people might be "Rats." That's over 50% probability the cops will be called. Cops are most likely call in this scenario. But if there was only 1 "Runner and 4 "Fighters" cops don't get called. You can settle it there and then by killing the 4 fighters. 

 

Countryside

 

With that in mind, say you are in the desert, this invisible radius shrinks. There are less people around to witness a crime. And out in a forest or desert, a witness would have to be up close to ascertain that you are committing a crime. They would have to be in your shorter radius. So, 2 people are up close and they witness you commit a crime. One of them is likely to report you 66% (Rat trait personality) but the other witness runs away (66% Runner). If the other witness runs away they may leave your shorter radius/area and therefore it doesn't trigger the a start or the cops - because people outside of your radius aren't too concerned. The other NPC  that stays within your radius has two options: because they didn't run away they're either not afraid of you and they will try fight you or if they might just want to report you. 

 

I haven't a clue about programming but I find it interesting the sort of Boolean logic that a developer would come up against when creating a wanted system. 

I can imagine with those scenarios I mentioned, you would have to programme certain NPC's characteristics/behaviours. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Mister Pink

[The Time Ranger]

The star rating is so synonymous with Gta I think Rockstar are wary to change it in any way. Imo it's holding the franchise back. It's been the same since the 3D era, it's seemingly random the actions that cause a wanted level.

 

In the Ps3/360 version of V there was a glitch where if an animal saw you commit a crime they would report you, imagine that, a cougar pulls out it's phone and reports you for letting a shot off on the side of a mountain. That was patched in current gen consoles and even that change made a significant difference.

 

RDR2 had a decent wanted level system so we know Rockstar can do it, the question is do they feel the need to?

[GATSXI0212]

On 4/10/2016 at 10:12 AM, Rhoda said:

So the wanted level system has had quite the overhaul since the 3D universe days. It seems now that wanted stars are less relevant than ever, with a radar and blips showing off how much heat you've attracted. It's now more about strategically hiding or evading the fuzz for long enough to be forgotten about, especially for the more petty crimes.

 

This got me thinking of how petty crime should be handled in future GTA games. Attaining stars has always been a bit hit and miss - if you stole a car in front of a police officer, you can bet your buns he'll be galloping after you. Do it in the middle of nowhere though, and there's a chance you'll earn a star anyway, despite the fact nobody for miles around heard or saw you. This can lead to an uncomfortable couple of minutes where a rookie on the job follows you half way up a mountain because his radar ears heard a car window smash.

 

I think a good idea would be to bring back the "no witnesses, no crime" system as seen in Read Dead Redemption. It might seem like a cop out (no pun intended) but it would add a little more strategy into stealing cars or taking people out. I've always liked how in IV you could drive into an alleyway and turn your lights off, hiding in plain sight until your wanted level dies down.

I love your ideas bro.

 

The reason some of us love gta is how real it feels. Let's have gta vi turn it up to 11. The pursuit system is what needs the most tweaking regarding this and your ideas would work wonders.

Edited April 2, 2020 by GATSXI0212

[Patrizio]

Fantastic topic @Rhoda and great post @Mister Pink. It should be the case that in the most dangerous/gang dominated of areas you are not wanted for crimes due the corruption of the area. At least - it should take longer to get up to 2*s there.

 

In RDR2 you can rob with a bandana. In GTA we should be able to do that with a balaclava and it lessens our wanted level.

 

I remember before V, @grope_4_that_date had a fantastic topic about the Wanted System. Rockstar should listen to him!